News Gelsinger: Intel Wants Apple Back

[Giroro]

With M1 silicon, Apple is making interesting, unique, non-upgradeable, unrepairable, severely overpriced custom computers that are stuck in a locked down ecosystem.

That is much better than where they were a few years ago, when they were making boring, samey, severely overpriced PCs that are stuck in a locked-down ecosystem.

Now they just need to start working on making their computers look more modern, instead of just recycling the same basic unibody design they've been using since, like, 2008.

 

[NightLight]

"So what I have to do is create a better chip than they can"

Lol ya that's all you have to do... good luck with that pipe dream. Intel and amd should be scared of what Apple managed to accomplish in such a short time, their only saving grace is that Apple hopefully won't sell their chips to others.

hahaha, you win the most useless comment award of the day

 

[KidsTheseDays]

hahaha, you win the most useless comment award of the day

Sure it's not yours?

 

[castl3bravo]

Interesting seeing silicon h/w design coming back into vouge in Silicon Valley. Even Tesla sees benefit in doing the same for its AI chips instead of paying the Nvidia tax. After the ARM threat there are other emerging threats like RISC-V.

 

[g-unit1111]

Do you mean Mac OSX? What entire operating system lives inside of the M1 chip?

Yeah I guess that is marketing BS, LOL.

 

[tony-w]

Extremely unlikely. The manufacturing cost per M1 chip to Apple is quite low. The majority of the cost of a commercial chip is helping pay back the huge amount of development cost and profit margin. Intel chips are likely more expensive to manufacture than the Apple M1.

 

[TerryLaze]

Secondly, can you imagine the disaster of having to go back AGAIN to x86 right after you announced the switch to ARM?

That would only make sense if apple had stopped all support for x86 already and all their OS was now arm based, if they actually had switched by now.
It's going to take years and years for this to happen and for this whole time it would be super easy, on a technical level at least, to "switch back" because all the infrastructure is still in place.

Also for users it wouldn't be a disaster unless they would immediately drop any sort of support for M1 which also wouldn't happen.

They would maybe loose some face but they are also very competent in spinning things into a positive light.
They could just keep M1 as a side thing to keep everybody happy.

 

[jayjr1105]

Yeah, zero chance there Pat. That ship has sailed.

 

[MB007]

After Apple#s presentation yesterday, his claims looks even more absurd and bizarr. Good luck. He is only saying what the bagholding stock holder would want to hear, doesnt matter if its realistic or not (kind of like trump did, although he is at least admitting partially here and there Intels failures).

 

[korekan]

pfffftt...
yea simple. just sell it as low as arm and have more performance/watt.
intel starting to lost the battle, the battle they might cant counter anymore.
hopefully they didnt end up like nokia/ blackberry.

apple is pricey but when you compare windows based laptop with macbook i dont think with the same price have tight quality and performance.

 

[TerryLaze]

After Apple#s presentation yesterday, his claims looks even more absurd and bizarr. Good luck. He is only saying what the bagholding stock holder would want to hear, doesnt matter if its realistic or not (kind of like trump did, although he is at least admitting partially here and there Intels failures).

What claims did he make?

He isn't saying what shareholders want to hear, he is saying what is expected from him when somebody straight out asks him "Have you given up on the idea of the mac running on intel chips" I mean what do you expect him to say? "Screw apple" ?

View: https://youtu.be/6J7kBZgDgPU?t=27

 

[Deleted member 14196]

Intel is the Mr Krabs of silicon

whenever they say anything, it's usually along the lines of..... "I LIKE MONEY!"

dude, why defend those turds--seriously, what are they paying you?

 

[blppt]

That would only make sense if apple had stopped all support for x86 already and all their OS was now arm based, if they actually had switched by now.
It's going to take years and years for this to happen and for this whole time it would be super easy, on a technical level at least, to "switch back" because all the infrastructure is still in place.

Apple has good translation software for x86-to-ARM ready right now. They've been planning the x86-to-ARM transition for years.

For them to start more development on a good performing ARM-to-x86 translator, Intel would have to show them chips that not only outperform M1, but do it at a cheaper price point and sucking less power.

Why would they do that when A. Intel has nothing that indicates they are anywheres near to creating a chip that can beat M1 at all of those things and B. Apple loves keeping whatever they can in house?

Not to mention, unless Intel's "super chip" can also replace the ARM chips in iphones and ipads, they'd have to back off on their attempts to unify the iOS and OSX worlds, forcing them to once again keep two separate code bases for decades to come.

Intel's best effort in this area was Atom, a massive failure, and that's when Intel was still ruling the roost in manufacturing processes.

 

[TerryLaze]

For them to start more development on a good performing ARM-to-x86 translator, Intel would have to show them chips that not only outperform M1, but do it at a cheaper price point and sucking less power.

Is there even a single piece of MAC software that was developed for arm only and doesn't have an x86 version?
Apple is still selling systems with intel CPUs in them, those are locked out of this software?
Also we have arm emulators for years now on windows and they do use virtualization so they basically run arm software almost as fast as native code.

Why would they do that when A. Intel has nothing that indicates they are anywheres near to creating a chip that can beat M1 at all of those things and B. Apple loves keeping whatever they can in house?

I was just saying that it wouldn't be a mess to switch back to x86, because everything x86 related is still in place, I didn't even mention intel, ZEN is also x86 last time I checked and for a video editing specific apple system (for example) those would do very well in sales.

 

[King_V]

I didn't even mention intel, ZEN is also x86 last time I checked and for a video editing specific apple system (for example) those would do very well in sales.

Did you forget "with Intel they only payed once" a bit earlier?

And this entire article is about Intel talking about wanting to get Apple's business back. Everything you've been talking about has boiled down to why Apple should stick with Intel.


And you didn't mention Zen until your very last post . . "Zen is also x86 last time I checked" . . . but your posts overall on these forums make clear exactly how little you think of Zen.

 

[blppt]

Is there even a single piece of MAC software that was developed for arm only and doesn't have an x86 version?
Apple is still selling systems with intel CPUs in them, those are locked out of this software?

Not really my point. At the moment, future SDKs and future software in development is likely to be ARM only or heavily ARM optimized. Its the part about shifting development resources going forward. Apple didn't plan this transition suddenly---they've been devoting vast resources to moving to ARM behind the scenes for years. To undo all of that at a moment's notice and start work on the internal apps they've had in development for ARM only would require something like Intel showing Apple a Sandy Bridge (2011) performance leap in 2005 when they were stuck on slow moving IBM and PPC G5.

This all happened before when Mac moved to Intel from PPC. Sure, at the time, released software was nearly all PPC native, but it didn't take that long for everything to move to Intel. They were still selling G5 Macs in 2006. Expensive ones, too.

The difference here is that ARM already has a vast library on the App Store running natively, though admittedly, few of these are optimized for desktop work or OS X. And with both iPhone/iPad and Mac using ARM now, it offers Apple a chance to consolidate code bases between iOS and OSX.

There is zero chance that Intel has anything of the sort in the pipeline right now that would decimate M1 in both performance and performance per watt the way their roadmap for Core2Duo did to IBM dragging their feet on PPC. It was so bad that Apple had to sell G4 Powerbooks because IBM wouldn't or couldn't deliver them a G5 of reasonable performance that would work in a notebook. None of this applies to M1.

 

[TerryLaze]

Not really my point. At the moment, future SDKs and future software in development is likely to be ARM only or heavily ARM optimized. Its the part about shifting development resources going forward. Apple didn't plan this transition suddenly---they've been devoting vast resources to moving to ARM behind the scenes for years. To undo all of that at a moment's notice and start work on the internal apps they've had in development for ARM only would require something like Intel showing Apple a Sandy Bridge (2011) performance leap in 2005 when they were stuck on slow moving IBM and PPC G5.

Yes it would be expensive in the sense that they would loose a lot of money they put into research into coding and into making the CPUs, that's not messy though which I was replying to, it's expensive and probably so much so that they wouldn't back up even if intel or amd or anybody could come up with a better CPU, at least until they can't scale it anymore if such a time will ever come.