News German Seagate customers say their 'new' hard drives were actually used – resold HDDs reportedly used for tens of thousands of hours

Seagate has been selling refurbished HDDs here in Germany for years. The two Seagate 1 TB drives I'm currently using are refurbished and I bought them around 8 years ago.

From my expereince Seagate has always put a refurbished sticker on drives that were used. This has me thinking that Seagate released those drives to vendors (without the stickers) hoping no one would notice that the HDDs are used.
 
Seagate has been selling refurbished HDDs here in Germany for years. The two Seagate 1 TB drives I'm currently using are refurbished and I bought them around 8 years ago.

From my expereince Seagate has always put a refurbished sticker on drives that were used. This has me thinking that Seagate released those drives to vendors (without the stickers) hoping no one would notice that the HDDs are used.
They do more than the green label stickers in the US - they also laser etch REFURBISHED into the disk case. Not sure if it is the same worldwide, but I would expect it is.

Generally with these disks there are no signs of use.
 
A few years ago I bought 2 1.5TB HDs. A few months later, despite little use, one broke, and was replaced under warranty with a refurbished one (!). Shortly after that the refurbished one also broke. Even the last disk eventually broke and I decided not to change it under warranty given the unreliability of that company's hardware. Since then I have decided to never give my money to Seagate again...
 
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A few years ago I bought 2 1.5TB HDs. A few months later, despite little use, one broke, and was replaced under warranty with a refurbished one (!). Shortly after that the refurbished one also broke. Even the last disk eventually broke and I decided not to change it under warranty given the unreliability of that company's hardware. Since then I have decided to never give my money to Seagate again...
 
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A few years ago I bought 2 1.5TB HDs. A few months later, despite little use, one broke, and was replaced under warranty with a refurbished one (!). Shortly after that the refurbished one also broke and since then I have decided to never give my money to Seagate again...
How long ago was that? I know there was a point in time when it was difficult to get disks due to flooding at their primary manufacturing plant, and some models were absolutely terrible. I remember the 1tb were quite bad, and heard the 750gb and 1.5tb of the series were bad as well.
 
How long ago was that? I know there was a point in time when it was difficult to get disks due to flooding at their primary manufacturing plant, and some models were absolutely terrible. I remember the 1tb were quite bad, and heard the 750gb and 1.5tb of the series were bad as well.
If I remember correctly, some time after that event. However, this does not justify the company's attitude in marketing defective products and recovering financial losses with the money of good-faith customers...
 
Something about this story does not make sense. Like where would the hard drives come from?
It's definitely going to take more diligence from tech news outlets to uproot who the big distributors are. Saying these drives were "bought from Seagate" is quite disingenuous as it leaves out a few steps of the supply chain and suggests that they were bought from Seagate's own store. No, rather, they are manufactured by Seagate. After that, some entity is pulling this scam where recycled drives are having SMART cleared and going back into the distribution stream or directly to retailers.

Amazon has all sorts of scams and counterfeit products, so that doesn't say anything. As for Mindfactory, surprising to me but if they source those models from a distributor and not directly from Seagate's factories, that allows that middleman tampering problem.

That said, it's still feasible that there's a small splinter cell at one of the Seagate factories that has been pulling this off under the radar. Either way, I'm extremely curious to see how this all unfolds!
 
I have never bought Seagate, only WD/Toshiba/Fujitsu/IBM (and earlier server versions of Samsung). Once I got one (SMR) as part of a laptop with NAND cache, it has been working for 7 years, although its performance during large copy operations is terrible, despite the 8GB NAND buffer.

Most of my drives are from WD. The only problem was with 1.5TB drives. They crumbled even in the complete absence of any vibration and even with an ideal (after a full scan) surface immediately after purchase - about 1.5-2 years. And they were in 2 different heavy cases with good cooling with good power supplies.

But the latest WD purchases have shown that their reliability has seriously dropped even with the same capacity as very old ones - 2TB. With a much weaker load than before, because now the system drives are only SSDs. And the prices in $ have not fallen at all in 15 years. At the same time, back in 2010, WD Green came with a 5-year warranty. I have such disks for 2 TB. I switched to Toshiba server disks without helium for 8 TB with a 5-year warranty and a read/write resource of 550 TB per year. Although they are quite noisy. But for backup, this is not important. Most of the time, all my HDDs are turned off to avoid the risk of random vibrations near the cases and impacts (especially dangerous with modern high platter density and low head suspension, if there are children or large animals in the house), including those that are in system units thanks to 5.25" drive power selectors. When needed, I turn them on and then immediately turn them off.

I also began to suspect, judging by the mass failures in some series according to reviews in a number of large retail chains, that some SSD batches of disks are clearly either repackaged like new (already used and worn out with reset SMART parameters) or for different countries there are batches with different grades of NAND chips. For third world countries, either repackaged restored / worn out or lower grade. For the USA and Western Europe - the highest grade, only new chips.

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Unlike SSD, where real wear is extremely difficult to check (long time frames of the test for the rate of charge loss in cells), in HDD wear is most often easily checked by a full surface scan - if there were already head hits on the protective layer and there were chips, all this will quickly be visible in slow sectors, whole blocks. A disk that has worked for tens of thousands of hours cannot look new a priori, unless this is a factory repackaging of the can - there will be noticeable traces and irreparable dust almost everywhere and it will be visible by the quality of the plate surface after the scan. And "restoration" at the Seagate plant without replacing the plates and possibly heads - does not cancel the fact of wear of the servo drive / heads and plates, which have a finite resource, including the protective layer. So such a disk is quite easy to distinguish in an individual case, but not when you buy a large batch - but these are the problems of the company's purchasers and their risks.
 
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My money would say that these are qual drives that were built solely to prove MTBF on the label. Drive manufacturers build thousands to test MTBF in parallel, then they have these used drives that are still good but not 'new' Seagate is probably trying to recoup some cost letting these out, got caught.
 
I have an educated guess that if the drives were made in 2021 that would be around the timeframe of the launch of Chia a new digital asset that you mined with hard drives so maybe somehow those drives were returned or something then sold to the customers in this article I don't know just a theory
 
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A few months ago I bought a 10TB HDD from a German Amazon seller for a pretty good price (too good to be true, like everything, I guess). I didn't test it too much, but it showed physical wear and tear like the article said, so I guess I'm one of the "scammed" people here. Is there a way I can also test how many hours my drive has? All smart reads were erased, but it showed risks as well.

edit: orthography
 
German publication Heise.de reports that over fifty of its readers received used hard drives when they were supposed to receive brand-new models.

German Seagate customers say their 'new' hard drives were actually used – resold HDDs reportedly used for tens of thousands of hours : Read more
Hi. Im from Philippines. I have also encounter this situation. That I have brought new Seagate HDD 5tb. When I got home and testing the HDD 5tb, there is a sound of tick...tick....tick..., I search at internet about having a sound at HDD, and learned that if there is a sound at HDD there is a bad sector. I went to Seagate Service Center and they gave me new HDD. When I testing the new HDD there is also ticking sound. And again went to Seagate Service Center to replace on the 2nd time. Again there is a ticking sound. What happen to the Seagate products that many customers knows that there products is a good quality. Unfortunately becomes unreliable quality. It is so disappointed
 
[German publication Heise.de reports that over fifty of its readers received used hard drives when they were supposed to receive brand-new models.]
Had similar experience in US 07/2021, Seagate drive failed under warranty. Unit was replaced twice maybe three times with faulty (failed S.M.A.R.T) drives.
I gave up on Seagate and bought Toshiba drives.

Please note quote below as response from from Edgar at Seagate.

"It's hard to believe that we already have two devices that are beginning to fail once you receive them, in this situation I want to apologize for this one in a million scenario, and please let me act accordingly to the situation." Edgar
 
I bought 6 pieces of Seagate Exos 16 TB a week ago from a "trusted partner" to Seagate, (not Amazon). When they arrived, well packed but without Seagate packaging and without any information, just the disks in anti-static bags, I noticed that the DOM was in different months back in 2021. On Seagates site I tried to verify the warranty but for each disk I got the message "Please contact the place of purchase. This product was originally sold as a part of a larger system. Please contact the system manufacturer or your place of purchase for warranty support."

I then chatted with the Seagate customer suport that insured that all warranties were valid. This turned out to be false.

Now I get a message from the the selling website (Seagates "trusted partner") informing me that there is no Seagate warranty but that their retailer leaves a warranty. When I ask for the name of the retailer and a copy of their warranty I get no such information.

So I turn back to the Seagate chatt support who now informs me that these are OEM-disks and that Seagate does not consider them as Seagate-disks any longer. Rather they consider them IBM-, Dell- or Compaq-disks depending on who bought them in the first place.

I still have not installed any of the disks, not even opened the anti-static bags, so I do not know if they have been used. Not sure how to check it in a RAID configuration on a Mac OS and are welcoming suggestions.

I have now demanded that Seagates "trusted partner", send me what I bought. New Seagate disks with Seagate warranty. They have told me that they will investigate how to handle this... While I am waiting, and waiting to get my RAID back on track and actually back to work.

Last time I bought hard drives was perhaps ten years ago. I recently had a RAID-crash (which was recovered, costing me a lot of money) so I wanted to be sure to get the best disks I could find. The warranty-issue was a key factor when deciding on what disks to buy. For a normal consumer as myself it is quite difficult to find valid information to make a well informed purchase. When I check the different stores that sells exactly the same product for almost the same price with the same (lack of) information, none of them in any way hints that these are OEM-disks and what that could imply. I don't know if I am to spoiled by Swedish consumer-rights but I know that the whole chain of companies supplying HDDs to consumers could be much more transparent. And I definitely think it should be in Seagates (and other manufacturers) interest to hold their "trusted partners" accountable for what information they provide when selling their products.
 
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A few years ago I bought 2 1.5TB HDs. A few months later, despite little use, one broke, and was replaced under warranty with a refurbished one (!). Shortly after that the refurbished one also broke. Even the last disk eventually broke and I decided not to change it under warranty given the unreliability of that company's hardware. Since then I have decided to never give my money to Seagate again...
Interesting. I have used Seagate HDDs (from the Barracuda line, one Ironwolf in my NAS) for around 15 years now. They all work like on the first day. Not trying to contradict you, I will tell you the same thing about my experience with AMD GPUs so I really get it, I just it fascinating how different customer experiences can be!

It's definitely going to take more diligence from tech news outlets to uproot who the big distributors are. Saying these drives were "bought from Seagate" is quite disingenuous as it leaves out a few steps of the supply chain and suggests that they were bought from Seagate's own store. No, rather, they are manufactured by Seagate. After that, some entity is pulling this scam where recycled drives are having SMART cleared and going back into the distribution stream or directly to retailers.

Amazon has all sorts of scams and counterfeit products, so that doesn't say anything. As for Mindfactory, surprising to me but if they source those models from a distributor and not directly from Seagate's factories, that allows that middleman tampering problem.

That said, it's still feasible that there's a small splinter cell at one of the Seagate factories that has been pulling this off under the radar. Either way, I'm extremely curious to see how this all unfolds!
Yeah, I also don't necessarily think it's Seagate at fault, though it's currently quite hard to tell. The range of affected stores does suggest it's Seagate or one of the middlemen at fault, though, and as you said, Mindfactory is really surprising since they are pretty reliable. Never had any issues with them. It would be far more localized an issue if it was just one or two shops scamming people. Really interested in what's going on, hope there will be more info going forward.
 
I got a used 16TB Seagate years back. Well I suppose 4 years back... it was properly sold as used, and the model had just come out a month or two earlier so I figured 'how used can it be?'. So I got a drive with like 20 hours on it for $50 less than new (roughly a 20% discount.). I suspect someone bought it, they had out of date windows that couldn't go past 2TB, or used Linux but put MBR partitioning on it (again 2TB limit), or whatever, therefore they returned it.
 
Hi, I'm new here. I just saw the article and the topic and I have a question related to the subject.

My ~8 yo. Acer laptop currently has a 120G Lexar SSD and a 500G Western Digital HDD (via caddy adapter) that I reused from another laptop I had.

So far, they're both looking fine without visible issues, except for some occasional short-pulsed coil whines which I suppose it's coming from the SSD because the location of the sound seems like it's coming from the bottom part of the laptop, far from the HDD. However, `smartctl` seems normal for both the HDD and the SSD, and I didn't notice any problems writing or reading.

I'm thinking of upgrading my HDD space to 1TB or 2TB. Problem is: when we talk about laptop drives, the hardware market seem to have transitioned entirely to 2.5" SSDs, and 2.5" HDDs seems to be all refurbished or used nowadays. Is this true? Is it really impossible to find (really) new HDDs to buy?

Buying a 1TB/2TB SSD is out of my consideration due to several disadvantages of SSDs over HDDs: SSDs have a shorter write lifespan and I plan to tinker with personal AI projects which would need lots (really lots) of writing. Also, SSDs seem to have short-lived data retention when powered off for long periods of time due to imperfections in the transistor insulator gate, so I'm worried they wouldn't retain data when resting inside a drawer for years just like HDDs can (i have two really old 3.5" backup HDDs resting in drawers, and they still hold the data I stored inside them several years ago; when I buy another PC in the foreseeable future, I'm certainly going to turn the current HDD into another redundant backup, so I'm planning for that, too, when seeking for HDDs).

Places where I asked this suggested me to buy external enclosed HDDs and disassembling them to take the 2.5" HDD out of it, but they risk not being compatible (i.e., soldered to the board while lacking a SATA connector, or having more than 9mm of height so it wouldn't fit in my caddy adapter) and this would clearly void the warranty. Others suggested me to buy a 3.5" HDD and using them via a dock, but I wanna keep the current setting where the HDD is installed inside the laptop, not outside it.

So, would I be able to find really new 2.5" HDDs, or is that unfortunately no longer possible these days?

(Sorry if my comment is too long and/or verbose)
 
The warranty-issue was a key factor when deciding on what disks to buy.
Most buyers in the world forget about one key problem with warranty disks. If the HDD failed, it does not mean that the data written on it is inaccessible on special equipment. Therefore, you still cannot return the warranty disk if you did not encrypt all the critical data on it.

It is even worse with SSDs - they often go into "read only" mode when they fail - you can read part of the undamaged data, but you cannot delete it. And even if the disk is no longer detected in the system, on the manufacturers' equipment you can read most of it directly from the NAND chips. You cannot return such a disk to the seller or the manufacturer. With your data. And what is the point of a warranty if you do not encrypt the data, if it is personal? Encryption is not necessary if something on it is not personal information. But more often than not, the technically illiterate majority of the population does not even think that they are handing over their private data to sellers/manufacturers in huge quantities, thinking that if the disk failed and is not detected, the data is lost. But this is not so. And there are a lot of buyers who return SSDs that are locked in "read only" mode with their personal data. But this is of course their personal problem - leakage of this data to 3rd parties...

Therefore, the warranty is only important if the disks do not contain critical personal data or all partitions with such data are encrypted. Otherwise, you will not be able to use the warranty anyway.

SSDs have a shorter write lifespan and I plan to tinker with personal AI projects which would need lots (really lots) of writing. Also, SSDs seem to have short-lived data retention when powered off for long periods of time due to imperfections in the transistor insulator gate, so I'm worried they wouldn't retain data when resting inside a drawer for years just like HDDs can (i have two really old 3.5" backup HDDs resting in drawers, and they still hold the data I stored inside them several years ago; when I buy another PC in the foreseeable future, I'm certainly going to turn the current HDD into another redundant backup, so I'm planning for that, too, when seeking for HDDs).
860 Evo Pro - 3D MLC, they are still available for sale. The data storage period is more than 10 years with wear less than 10%.

3D TLC really has a bad data retention period. I have an 860 Evo (one of the most reliable Samsung series) where files haven't been rewritten for 2-3 years - the reading speed has already dropped 8-10 times.

I have Transcend flash drives with MLC and TLC (they quietly replaced the flash with a cheaper one) of the same series - 2 of them lay on the shelf with recorded data for 3 years. After checking, it turned out that the one with MLC lost only 20-30% of its peak reading speed in 3 years. The one with TLC lost up to 90% of the reading speed. Thus, the MLC flash will lose 90% of the reading speed no earlier than 9-10 years. And this has already been proven with flash drives from the early 2000s - data is stored on them for 10-13 years without problems, but they have a very old planar MLC - very reliable...

There is no place for HDD in a laptop - they have become very dependent on the slightest vibrations and they are all noisy. And models from 2TB are still on monstrously slow SMR technologies, and not like before on CMR/PMR. Therefore, you were correctly advised - buy, for example, a server Toshiba MG series for 8-12TB (without helium) and put it in a USB case with good cooling. For operational backup of data from all your SSDs in the laptop(s). At least once a week. And once every 1-2 months, rewrite the backups to a second similar copy for 8-12TB. The rest of the time they should lie turned off. The most valuable data should be backed up immediately to NAS (there may also be SSDs there - in RAID10), and then copied from it to these two disks, since you should always have at least 3 copies.
 
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If anyone is still following this there were updates in further articles:

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...s-as-clues-point-at-chinese-chia-mining-farms

It definitely wasn't Seagate - the distributors or resellers purchased from scammers.

Note that this does also happen with Western Digital disks but it isn't as easy to detect, since they don't have the FARM stats that the Seagate disks do which survived the SMART data erasure.