Gun Owners, Why Do You Own Guns?

[4Ryan6]

My reasons for gun ownership are totally home defense, I live out in the country in a high crime area, most of the crimes are drug related ending in killing the victims, in some worst cases over less than 20 dollars.

What has this world come to, when someone would be killed for less than 20 dollars!

That's a Travesty!

Worse was that couple were older and really couldn't defend themselves, why kill them?

If the robbers had wore a mask why would they need to be killed, just pure evil mean behind those actions!

To make things worse we have 2 gangs in the closest county and 3 gangs in the neighboring county, some of the gang members commit crimes as part of their gang initiations.

So to me owning guns for home defense is a No Brainer!

That's why I have them and why they were purchased, what about you?

 

[Saga Lout]

The ability to fire it also exists in that small space and therein lives real readiness. I fear many people think they can do it but I've also known many who cannot when it comes to it. Trained former military/Naval personnel may agree with me - others will not.

 

[4Ryan6]

Having multiple 1911 firearms, I have to disagree. I have never had any of them accidentally misfiring. Aditionally, It is the prime standard for how every semi-auto handgun considers its action and is still the standard to this day.

On a side note, to be fair, I have never had any of my guns "accidentally" fire. Nor has my spouse. gun safety is in the 6-8 inches in between your ears... not the mechanisms on any weapon. No-one blames the the table when it comes out wobbly, they normally blame the carpenter.

[/just some stuff to think about]

Pulling the trigger on a 1911 with a worn sear and it emptying the entire magazine, is accidental firing whether you have seen it happen or not.

Which was the fault of the gun mechanism!

Scroll down to Beware of Multiple Firings

http://www.m1911.org/secondhand.htm

From a carpenters point of view, I'd say you've been lucky!

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/reliability_secrets.htm

http://www.survivalblog.com/2008/06/observations-on-real-world-pis.html

http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=3250

http://www.m1911.org/textfiles/1911acp.htm

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2318242/posts

http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscout/2011/06/08/read-this-before-you-buy-your-first-1911/

 

[mrface]

"Pulling the trigger on a 1911 with a worn sear "

Action that is incorporated by the Gun owner or the user of the gun. Only time your finger should be on the trigger would be in an instance that you are willing to destroy something.

Being a retired navy personnel, you should know that.

[/not starting a argument, but you know of my arsenal, to include on 1909 M1911 from my grandfather. I can verify it has never accidentally fired. and trust me its worn.]

[/moreover, I would prefer my personal experiences over those from others, although you have apparently done extensive research. Have you ever seen an accidental firing from any gun? Additionally, I currently have over 20,000 rounds through my main sidearm, which happens to be... you guessed a Dan Wesson Signature series 1911 .45 ACP]



Cheers.

 

[chunkymonster]

Collectors is another very good point!

A collection that I have been working on is an example of every US service rifle since WWI which is almost pointless since NJ bans M1/M2 Carbines and have to substitute an M1A for an M14 and AR15 for the M16, not that I'm complaining about the M1A or the AR15. The 1916 Nagants are practically impossible to find.

 

[4Ryan6]

"Pulling the trigger on a 1911 with a worn sear "

Action that is incorporated by the Gun owner or the user of the gun. Only time your finger should be on the trigger would be in an instance that you are willing to destroy something.

Being a retired navy personnel, you should know that.

[/not starting a argument, but you know of my arsenal, to include on 1909 M1911 from my grandfather. I can verify it has never accidentally fired. and trust me its worn.]

[/moreover, I would prefer my personal experiences over those from others, although you have apparently done extensive research. Have you ever seen an accidental firing from any gun? Additionally, I currently have over 20,000 rounds through my main sidearm, which happens to be... you guessed a Dan Wesson Signature series 1911 .45 ACP]



Cheers.

Obviously the 1911 is a sore issue with you, as the [/not starting a argument, is exactly what you've done 5 pages into this thread, have you read the entire thread or just picked out the 1911 to comment on?

This isn't about bashing weapons, but if we have experiences to share with others relating to gun failures, that's good info to share so, besides hosing down with your quip insults, do you have anything useful to share?

No-one blames the the table when it comes out wobbly, they normally blame the carpenter.

Like that wasn't obvious!

I do know of direct 1911 failures and I've repaired a weapon it happened to, my experience was way beyond normal use of a 45acp and beyond just field stripping the weapon and cleaning it.

The weapons on our ship in case you obviously missed it were used on a regular basis, we had a certain amount set aside for training to keep the wear away from all the weapons, because we had problems getting replacement parts for them.

As far as the amount of rounds fired through them to reach sear failure I don't have a clue, I just know one failed and when it did, it caused one of our most grounded gunners to loose his composure, and cancel the training session.

When you pull the trigger on your 1911 your expect it to fire normally as it has each time before, no one is ever ready for it to empty the entire magazine, if he had dropped the weapon it would have continued firing until the magazine was empty.

It scared him so bad, after I had replaced the sear, he refused to test fire the weapon, I did it!

Did I actually see it happen?

No, I was in the gun shack at the time, as I have already stated earlier, but after tearing down the weapon the failure was obvious, and replacing the sear fixed the weapon, my Gunnery Chief Petty Officer saw it happen, and after the fact he made sure we had replacement sears.

The possibility of a sear failure on a new gun or one fired occasionally is very remote, it would require a manufacturing flaw, but when I said a worn sear, that's exactly what I meant.

Let me ask you this mrface, Have you ever cleaned your weapons past field stripping them, in other words have you even seen a sear from inside of your own handguns with your own eyes?

 

[4Ryan6]

Collectors is another very good point!

A collection that I have been working on is an example of every US service rifle since WWI which is almost pointless since NJ bans M1/M2 Carbines and have to substitute an M1A for an M14 and AR15 for the M16, not that I'm complaining about the M1A or the AR15. The 1916 Nagants are practically impossible to find.

One of my best friends in gunnery school was in love with the Carbine as far as he was concerned it was the best weapon ever made.

He owned an M1, and his eyes sparkled when he showed it off, You have to understand we were in gunnery school learning every detail of every weapon the US Navy had in it's arsenal on the active ships we could be assigned to, and the M1 Carbine was not one of them, but he loved it.

We were gun nuts by that time anyway!

 

[4Ryan6]

I'm guessing that most of these 1911 mis-fires due to worn sears are on 70+ year old guns or on guns with poor blued or parkerized finishes. If not, then it is more likely to occur in a combat environment than a typical home/suburb environment. A finish like that out in the desert or sea is almost like not having any finish at all. Salt and sand will rip it all off like sandpaper. According to the last link that 4Ryan6 posted, good hammers and sears should be made from tool grade steel which is extremely durable. If you have such a hammer and sear and keep the overall gun maintained properly, carrying a 1911 cocked and loaded should be as safe as carrying a loaded Glock or Beretta 92. There is also the possibility that many of the sear failures were caused by the user carrying the gun with a half-cocked hammer. This is supposed to be very bad for the sear and it is recommended to either keep it fully cocked or not at all. I did find many of those sites very interesting and have learned a great deal more about the gun I have been carrying for the past 4 years now. Just like with any subject, I learn something new just about every day. Only this subject could potentially save one of my family member's or my own life which is why I want to know as much as possible.

On ship we had a 270 man crew we normally allowed them to fire at least 2 mags through the weapons, if they could be trusted with one, that gave us the opportunity to see how comfortable they were with the weapons.

Those that were high rated such as watch standers could practice up to 5 mags but our ammunition was not unlimited we had a certain amount allowed to use up for training purposes.

However the 1911s we had set aside for training purposes had an enormous amount of rounds fired through them, they had to be completely broke down after each session and inspected for wear.

Our replacement parts were seriously limited, we had damaged guns from being dropped and abuse, mostly from those that ended up not being approved to be handed a weapon at all, even in a crisis situation.

Some people just cannot handle a weapon and no amount of training will make it possible, and we had to discover who we could depend on if the need arised, so we had to weed out those that couldn't, and nourish those that could.

Cycling through a 270 man crew put a lot of wear on our weapons which eventually led to the 45acp sear failure, plus the salt air environment was extremely harsh as well, we had to reblue many weapons.

So to sum up, if gun lover A, decides today to go buy a brand new 1911 from his local gun store will the sear fail, no of course not!

The amount of wear it would require to reach a point it fails to stop the hammer, is almost unmeasurable!

However is it possible for a sear to become so worn it fails to stop the hammer resulting in a run away, Yes it is!

There are other negative sides discovered over time regarding the 1911 that I supplied links to way above, such as jamming with various types of ammunition, but there are fixes to those issues.

The original gun design fired round point full metal jacket rounds, some of the newer hollow points rounds can jam, basically because of the shape of the end and the tip being lighter.

The Hornady Critical Defense 45acp hollow point round should by it's design never jam, that's what I use.

Additionally improper loading of the magazine can cause a jam even with full metal jacket ball rounds, if the bullets are staggered front to rear loaded in the magazine it can cause a feed problem as the bullets are pushed up to the slide as the magazine feeds the weapon.

After the magazine is loaded lightly tap the back side or primer side of the magazine on a flat surface to get all the bullets in alignment with each other that ensures the smooth feed to the weapon.

Most every jam we experienced during ship training was simply caused by the bullets not properly aligned in the magazine.

 

[4Ryan6]

Gonna_squeal said it best. Why someone owns guns can't be answered in a few sentences or paragraphs even. It takes a conversation and a flow of information, back and forth.

One of the reasons I own firearms is history. This could be a very long conversation as any student of history could understand.

I grew up with firearms. The question of why do I own them is like asking why I eat or drink or sleep. It really is that fundamental with me. I was taught at an early age how to handle and respect them. I wasn't even allowed to look at one until I was 5. I wasn't allowed to hold one until I was 7, and I wasn't taught how to properly handle and shoot accurately until I was 8 or 9. I trained my daughter the same way. Shooting is a skill, but proper and safe handling of firearms is something that was beat in my head. Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire, always keep it pointed in a safe direction, etc. etc. These are things that are reinforced every time you visit the range and should be.

Why do I own firearms? I shall fully and faithfully ponder the question and try to give a more complete answer if what I said isn't good enough.

Thank You Sir! For that well worded and reasonable post!

 

[4Ryan6]

The ability to fire it also exists in that small space and therein lives real readiness. I fear many people think they can do it but I've also known many who cannot when it comes to it. Trained former military/Naval personnel may agree with me - others will not.

We had a list of names posted in the armory of those on board our ship that were never to be handed a weapon, simply because they went to pieces when the weapon fired, or freaked out if the weapon jammed and turned around pointing into the crowd.

They were instructed before hand if the weapon jammed keep it aimed down range until all the firing ceased and we would come to them and clear the jam.

I think I had previously stated earlier in the thread, but if I didn't, the only thing that could keep a sailor from being assigned sea duty was if he failed swim school, and if you failed the USN swim school, then you'd best live in some inland area with no swimming pools anywhere near, it was some of the best save your life training you could ever get.

Boot camp usually weeded out those that just could not fire a weapon and it was recorded on their records, and unless they wanted another chance to learn, were not required to fire anything.

Some however amazingly that could not fire the 45acp, were completely at ease firing the M14?

I haven't to this day actually fully understood why, unless they had hunting experience earlier in life using a rifle and had never even touched a pistol?

 

[4Ryan6]

I used to have a WWII Japanese sniper rifle and officer's Katana. The sniper rifle wasn't worth that much, a few hundred dollars since they were massively produced, but the Officer's Katana was worth well over $10,000 a few years back. It was in great shape and had some features on it designed for combat, not just ornamental designs. Also had my grandfather's side arm but that too is gone now.
I wish I had all those since my grandfather had fought for them and brought them back. Not just for the value but because it was a significant piece of history that few people really have today.

The sentimental value is worth more than the weapons!

I wish I could have acquired my dads weapons after he died, as he was also in possession of my brothers shotgun that drowned when he was 13.

But my stepmother gave them away to her side of the family!

That's all I have to say about it.