Question Hard drives for backups in 2024

[MalcolmKK]

Hi All,
I hope you are well.
I have seen that sticky thread about backup disks but it's an old thread.
I am looking for some cheaper drives as a backup solution for my NVMes in case it dies.
I am thinking about a couple of 3.5 HDDs (up to 10 Terabytes). I set them up in software RAID1 configuration for redundancy.
There is also the idea to shut them down while not in use so they are not constantly spinning to reduce the wear.
Please advise
Thank you

 

[Eximo]

Depends how you go about it.

3, 2, 1 rules are the general guide. 3 Backups, 2 types of media, one off site backup.

Raid 1 is actually about up time, not really a backup. Basically you lose no time if a drive fails, but if you accidentally delete data or the system hosting the drives corrupts them, you lose both at the same time.

A NAS is also a decent way to go about it. Keep your working files on the NAS and rely on network performance. If the main system dies, you still have the NAS.

I practice a milder version. Live system (SSD), local hard drive backup (SATA HDD), external offline backup (External SATA HDD) that remains unplugged when not in use. I also keep important documents on a rotating set of USB flash drives that I replace every few years.

So I risk both drives for ease of availability, but perform semi-irregular backups of stored files and system images.

That third step could be cloud storage, or physically removed to another location to properly follow the 3:2:1 rules.

 

[USAFRet]

Nothing wrong with HDDs for backups.

Price per GB, that is the way to go.

RAID 1, however, not so much.

You act against fail by having more than 1 copy of the data. RAID 1 just wards off (mostly) against physical drive fail. It does nothing for all the other forms of data loss.

 

[MalcolmKK]

Ok, thanks
I already have offline backups of older stuff in place.
I need some more frequent backups (weekly) of more recent stuff and extra space.
So how I want to play this is two HDD not in RAID but mounted and dismounted whenever the backup job runs.

What disk manufacturers and models do you recommend? Brand new, refurbished?
Thanks

 

[Eximo]

Seagate Ironwolf or WD Red Plus in 10TB are listed as CMR drives. SMR drives are to be avoided if you want performance.

I believe my last purchase was a WD Red Pro 4TB drive. But I don't keep too much in terms of bulky files.

 

[MalcolmKK]

Seagate Ironwolf or WD Red Plus in 10TB are listed as CMR drives. SMR drives are to be avoided if you want performance.

I believe my last purchase was a WD Red Pro 4TB drive. But I don't keep too much in terms of bulky files.

from what I see WD Red Pro comes only with 4TB capacity.

 

[USAFRet]

from what I see WD Red Pro comes only with 4TB capacity.

14TB Red Pro - https://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-14TB-Internal-Drive/dp/B0CD2XBZWR

18TB IronWolf Pro - https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-IronWolf-Enterprise-Internal-ST18000NT001/dp/B0CRHRXYMQ

 

[MalcolmKK]

14TB Red Pro - https://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-14TB-Internal-Drive/dp/B0CD2XBZWR

18TB IronWolf Pro - https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-IronWolf-Enterprise-Internal-ST18000NT001/dp/B0CRHRXYMQ

I see there is a bit of a price jump over 4TB capacity.

 

[MalcolmKK]

This is a bit confusing. They are called Ironwolf or Red Pro but there are different generations so I have to check by the model numbers. I fish for cheaper ones but I risk getting an older generation even if "brand new".
Some are as old as 2017.
For instance I wonder if there was a big technological leap between Ironwolf from 2019 (ST10000NE0008-2JM101) and from 2021 (ST8000NE001-2M71).

 

[USAFRet]

This is a bit confusing. They are called Ironwolf or Red Pro but there are different generations so I have to check by the model numbers. I fish for cheaper ones but I risk getting an older generation even if "brand new".
Some are as old as 2017.

As long as it is new, with a warranty, and CMR not SMR..."older generation" means very little.

 

[MalcolmKK]

As long as it is new, with a warranty, and CMR not SMR..."older generation" means very little.

Does that mean all Ironwolfs are CMR or is it case by case?
I mean since I am not building a RAID array or use NAS I should get away with SMR disks but SMR hard drives are definitely not for RAIDs only for slow backups.

 

[USAFRet]

Does that mean all Ironwolfs are CMR or is it case by case?
I mean since I am not building a RAID array or use NAS I should get away with SMR disks but SMR hard drives are definitely not for RAIDs only for slow backups.

I've not looked at every model of Ironwlf as far as CMR vs SMR to verify, but I think they are.

Me, I'd stay away from SMR for any use. Sort of OK for just backups, but...

 

[MalcolmKK]

I've not looked at every model of Ironwlf as far as CMR vs SMR to verify, but I think they are.

Me, I'd stay away from SMR for any use. Sort of OK for just backups, but...

Make sense.
I found 2x 10TB Seagate Ironwolf ST10000NE0008 (2019) brand new from China for $306 total.

 

[USAFRet]

Make sense.
I found 2x 10TB Seagate Ironwolf ST10000NE0008 (2019) brand new from China for $306 total.

Are you 100% sure of the warranty on those?

Here is the same from Amazon, for not that much more
https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-IronWolf-ST10000NE0008-Hard-Drive/dp/B07J34J785

 

[MalcolmKK]

Are you 100% sure of the warranty on those?

Here is the same from Amazon, for not that much more
https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-IronWolf-ST10000NE0008-Hard-Drive/dp/B07J34J785

Those from the link from what I can see are refurbished.
Those from China are listed as brand new I can return them in 30 days.

 

[USAFRet]

Those from the link from what I can see are refurbished.
Those from China are listed as brand new I can return them in 30 days.

I'm not seeing those as refurb.
But if you're comfortable buying from your Chinese source, go for it.

 

[MalcolmKK]

This is one of the two hard drives I just received in the post. Both sealed:
https://ibb.co/vdGgVgW

 

[USAFRet]

This is one of the two hard drives I just received in the post. Both sealed:
https://ibb.co/vdGgVgW

Does that serial number register at Seagate?

 

[MalcolmKK]

Does that serial number register at Seagate?

still waiting for an activation link from Seagate to activate the account.

I have run some SMART tests on both disks:

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   084   084   044    Pre-fail  Always       -       236935772
3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   099   099   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       1
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   100   253   045    Pre-fail  Always       -       134837
9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       24
10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       1
18 Head_Health             0x000b   100   100   050    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   059   059   040    Old_age   Always       -       41 (Min/Max 25/41)
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       3
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   041   041   000    Old_age   Always       -       41 (0 25 0 0 0)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   036   036   000    Old_age   Always       -       236935772
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
200 Pressure_Limit          0x0023   100   100   001    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0h+27m+37.289s
241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       236831796
242 Total_LBAs_Read         0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       103976


SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   084   066   044    Pre-fail  Always       -       242343811
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   099   099   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       1
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   100   253   045    Pre-fail  Always       -       111161
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       24
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       1
 18 Head_Health             0x000b   100   100   050    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   060   060   040    Old_age   Always       -       40 (Min/Max 24/40)
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       3
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   040   040   000    Old_age   Always       -       40 (0 24 0 0 0)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   034   016   000    Old_age   Always       -       242343811
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
200 Pressure_Limit          0x0023   100   100   001    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0h+25m+30.480s
241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       242257484
242 Total_LBAs_Read         0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       86327

I have done some sequential write tests both came at exactly 200MB/s.
To be honest I feel intimidated by the noise these spinning disks make but it was a while I had them plugged in to the system.

 

[MalcolmKK]

Ok, I got the activation link and I was able to register both disks, the warranty is valid until: 29/Mar/2027

 

[USAFRet]

Ok, I got the activation link and I was able to register both disks, the warranty is valid until: 29/Mar/2027

Then they appear to be valid drives.