Haswell i7 Engineering Sample Pinned Up Against i7 3770K

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[citation][nom]kinggremlin[/nom]Wrong again. The market determines where the competition is, not vice versa. Companies aren't going to compete for customers that don't exist.[/citation]
What about Windows 8? They seem to be doing just that.
 
Companies aren't going to compete for customers that don't exist.
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So... no company ever created a market for customers that don't exist with a new product or innovation? What_the_hell kind of stupid comment is that?
 
Hard to see how they can deliver more than a couple % improvement per clock, especially if you don't count the new AVX/FMA instructions. What they achieved with Sandy Bridge was pretty amazing and will not be repeated.

What we need is for Intel to introduce a mainstream threshold voltage CPU. That should supposedly clock north of 10 GHz on air. Pair that with DDR4 and you'll finally have a good reason to upgrade.
 
[citation][nom]aieosie[/nom]So... no company ever created a market for customers that don't exist with a new product or innovation? What_the_hell kind of stupid comment is that?[/citation]

In emerging markets, yes. Market research will tell companies whether there is sufficient predicted demand to invest in the new market. The desktop CPU market most definitely does not fall into the emerging market category. No company is going to look at the sauerkraut juice market and conclude that the reason no one wants it is because there isn't enough competition. The reason there is no competition is because there is no market demand for sauerkraut juice.
 
[citation][nom]aieosie[/nom]What about Windows 8? They seem to be doing just that.[/citation]

It is really sad to see what has happened to THG and how clueless the readerbase has become. The goal of Windows 8 was very clear. To unify the interface of PC's, tablets, phones and other portable devices as well as create a large userbase for MS's app store. Whether or not it is successful is a completely different issue.
 
In emerging markets, yes. Market research will tell companies whether there is sufficient predicted demand to invest in the new market. The desktop CPU market most definitely does not fall into the emerging market category. No company is going to look at the sauerkraut juice market and conclude that the reason no one wants it is because there isn't enough competition. The reason there is no competition is because there is no market demand for sauerkraut juice.
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You missed his point completely. There was no market for computers before computers were invented. Same with any emergent innovation. The idea that companies don't compete for customers that don't actually doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Also, tell people who work in video editing (as just one example high compute requirement applications) that there's no market for faster processing and see how many seconds you have to breath before they laugh your smug ass out of the room.
 
Look at all the Intel fans trying everything to cover this up ha ha pathetic but at the same time this is a IPC compression the new I7 is more about GPU performance and maybe even better TDP or clock speeds.

But if their is less then a 3%-5% boost then that is better news to Amd
 
[citation][nom]completeAtrocious[/nom]You missed his point completely. There was no market for computers before computers were invented. Same with any emergent innovation. The idea that companies don't compete for customers that don't actually doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Also, tell people who work in video editing (as just one example high compute requirement applications) that there's no market for faster processing and see how many seconds you have to breath before they laugh your smug ass out of the room.[/citation]

Agreed, more performance is always critical not only in the desktop area for uses you explained but also in servers.
 
[citation][nom]rds1220[/nom]This doesn't mean much. It is an engneering sample and as most on here know ES's can have alot of bugs and problems, alot can change from an ES test to the final product.[/citation]

I had A10 and 8350 ES samples neither of them amounted to drastically improved performance to final other than clock speed bumps. In short don't expect more than a 1% or so improvement.

We have recieved Haswell ES samples, expect similar results, improved IMC, modest IPC yields. Interested in seeing how the iGPU stacks up to mid level Llano/Trinity parts.
 
I think that this is actually a pretty good things for laptop! The Intel HD 4000 already is pretty good, and the next one is going to be 40% better? I'm actually pleased. Even though it's not a big improvement (up to date), I think that my i7-2600k will do for a while, most of the people don't need all that raw power.
 
[citation][nom]BigMack70[/nom]You are beyond naive if you think that lack of competition doesn't play into this. If AMD suddenly pulled a miracle and had a chip that beat the crap out of Intel's 3960X, you can bet your ass that Intel would be improving its x86 performance more than 5-10% per model refresh.Where's the competition currently? Low-wattage and iGPU. So that's what Intel focuses on, leaving x86 to more or less stagnate since nobody can compete with them there anyways (and before you AMD fanboys freak out, that's a generalization for the sake of brevity and argument).Anyways, your post smacks too much of someone pretending to have been to the future, and also someone ignorant of the market that does exist for high end x86 CPU performance.[/citation]
Actually I think he is right on track..
 
2.8 Ghz indicates it's probably an A stepping ES and hence subject to near-showstopping bugs. For those that don't know, "ES" isn't the same thing as a beta in the software world, where beta ~ release. It makes no sense that a newer product would have worse IPC and worse TDP and ONLY better graphics.
 
[citation][nom]danwat1234[/nom]Right now Intel is concentrating on GPU performance and integrating voltage regulators (Haswell) and the South Bridge (Broadwell) into the CPU package.[/citation]
Intel is putting their money where they expect the market to go and since even the slowest CPUs available are overkill for the majority of tasks PCs are used for, enabling super-integrated form factors is a pretty safe bet.

One thing I would like to see is a new form factor with a x16 edge connector along the top of an ITX-like board so a standard discrete GPU can be in-plane with the motherboard for pizza-box form factor.
 
[citation][nom]danwat1234[/nom]"The new Haswell chips will be built on a smaller manufacturing process". --? Still 22nm as before. Broadwell will be the 14nm shrink[/citation]

Thanks, I've corrected it!
 
1. I doubt it was a 4770K sample, seems more like a sub 65w part.

2. The 1M test might have been a random thing, the Russian site notes it too...i've never seen super pi behave like that. It scales pretty well, in the sense that if 2M takes 30s then 4M will usually not take more than 60s.

3. TDP's only going up on the standard desktop i5s and i7s, iirc.

4. Haswell's main selling point is apparently 20x better efficiency while idle, along with HD4600 graphics. Otherwise it's supposed to be the usual iterative 10% increase in performance on the x86 side.

5. Haswell also has an integrated VRM, apparently.
 
It's all a trick. Intel is probably seeing slower sales because of people holding out until Haswell. They hand out a broken chip (or a celeron or something) and say hey, run these specific benchmarks (not the usual ones that people run) against this chip and, oh, a 3770K and then "leak" them online. All of a sudden people stop waiting and start buying Ivy Bridge chips again!
 
[citation][nom]gilgamex[/nom]AMD isn't laughably behind, Yes the single threaded IPC is lower and gaming sure especially with CPU dependent games like skyrim staring it down. Also power consumption can vary wildly when overclocking and is generally more inefficient than Intel CPU's. Thing is though It is very competitive on multi-tasking chores and can be a great cheap alternative for those running those kinds of work loads. That's where that architecture shines, it was born for that and for such a small company against the goliath that is Intel the fact AMD is in the ring is pretty sweet. Everyone just clammers for the crown holder like a bunch of pre-schoolers when you have to evolve your mindstate on the entire picture rather than isolated reasons. It's a give and take.[/citation]

No they don't, you have to look at Intel's marketing. Everybody knows what Intel is, how many people know AMD is?

See processors are kind of like cars, you sure as hell don't need a new one every year anymore, so most people don't even care about how fast there it's going the improvements that each processor has over the previous generation they don't know that stuff, but they do know is I seen Intel on TV let's get an Intel.

That use my dad as an example for the everyman. We had a Toshiba plasma TV for a long time, take a guess what laptop we got. If you send Toshiba because he seen on the TV he had and thought this is on sale than your correct. Really that's only reason he showed me the advertisement for the laptop was because he knew it was on our TV, it's a damn good laptop especially for when we got it that's why I okayed it and said yes this is good, but if it was any other brand cumulative show me the advertisement.

Intel has a great marketing department because everybody knows what the hell an Intel is, however how many people could tell you what the AMD logo looks like, can remember off the top my head but the Intel one is. See it's not so much people going for the crown holder that get some money it's that they know Intel.

Don't get me wrong AMD has a fantastic architecture for multitasking and multi core use, sure the bulldozer wasn't that great but Intel also had problems when it went for threaded processes instead of just need more cores, the difference was that Intel could pull their multi threaded stuff out of the limelight until they got that process down AMD doesn't have that luxury. There failures in small leaps are for everyone to see.
 
Look, a lot can change between now and when full production begins. Not in the overall design mind you, just the physical circuit design. In fact, there are probably several designs for each model of chip running through the fab right now. Computers can predict a lot but you have to grow that oxide on the silicon to verify designs.

I have worked for both Intel and AMD. I have seen ESs being processed and watched the nervous engineers sweat up a storm in their bunny suits waiting for them to complete. Good times.
 
ugh, yet another generation I will likely skip since I don't give a rats posterior about the built in graphics. Who would have thought I would still be cruising along and relevant on an OCed Q6600 i7 at 3.6Gz and now old X58 SLI motherboard with triple channel memory. All I have had to upgrade the last several years are the video card or cards and switched to SSD's. Without competition Intel gets fat and lazy.

The fact it is an engineering sample doesn't matter, the samples are rarely that far off from the production except for some microcode updates to better communicate with whatever chipset they are designed to fit in.
 
[citation][nom]segio526[/nom]It's all a trick. Intel is probably seeing slower sales because of people holding out until Haswell. They hand out a broken chip (or a celeron or something) and say hey, run these specific benchmarks (not the usual ones that people run) against this chip and, oh, a 3770K and then "leak" them online. All of a sudden people stop waiting and start buying Ivy Bridge chips again![/citation]Nice conspiracy theory but there is a problem with that..., that was the same reason no one ran out and bought Ivy Bridge..., there wasn't that much difference between it and Sandybridge, thus no reason to upgrade. That part hasn't changed.
 
Hmmm... not very promising. I'll stick with my Core 2 Quad.

On the other hand, this could be a great chance for AMD.
 
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