HELP !! I need help choosing Processor !!!!!!

RichPLS · Dec 1, 2004

Hey, Stoobie, don't let em disuade you. Dell is a solid machine, and if you get their express warranty, the quicker response one, support aint't that bad.
You will not have o/c options, but it seems that doesn't matter to you.
Some PSU and floppy connectors are propietery, so if you just buy from Dell, no worry.

What you will get, is a neat machine, packaged well, a solid average performer, with long lasting stability.

They are one of the better OEM distros.

Look carefully at the 3.8 GHz, that would be my pick.

<pre>\\//__________________________________
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

mozzartusm · Dec 1, 2004

I probably shouldnt be so negative, I used Compaq for years. Ive just had nightmares with tech support. Mostly Gateway, but it wasnt much better with Dell. Alot depends on the tech rep you get when you call. The one thing that I cant get past with this paticular situation is that with some research and patience this guy could get a lot more bang for his buck.

RichPLS · Dec 2, 2004

I agree, but see both sides... And the comfort factor is appealing to a large segment, obviously.

<pre>\\//__________________________________
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

grafixmonkey · Dec 2, 2004

Well, Stoobie, the 3.8 is only 5.6% faster than the 3.6. My take is you're already paying so much for the system you might as well get the 3.8, but it's up to you to decide if 5.6% faster processor is worth an extra $214 to you.

You probably would never notice the difference in games or applications unless you tried to measure it numerically.

grafixmonkey · Dec 2, 2004

What you will get, is a neat machine, packaged well, a solid average performer, with long lasting stability.

They are one of the better OEM distros.

My experience with Dell is that they will not give you the choice of the best performance/price parts, only the most expensive parts. They make deals with manufacturers to not carry their competitors' products even though they might be both better and cheaper. They won't help you over tech support with the issues MOST people have (which is "how do I use this software"), they only help if it's a hardware problem. They put weak power supplies in their systems - I've seen P4 systems with power supplies rated at 180W. They screw around with the case to try and make things difficult for you - I once had to hacksaw a piece off of a metal expansion card cage to get a card to fit in a system at work, because for some godawful reason they decided the system should be built with a blade server board and a PCI riser cage instead of a normal, CHEAPER, motherboard. They try and make standard parts not fit right, so that if you do ever need an upgrade you end up needing to get a Dell part to do it.

Basically Dell does not want the computer you buy to last you a long time. They want you to not like it after a year so that you will buy a new one, and they work that into their system building plans in unexpected ways so that you'll run into those problems down the road.

Unfortunately, Gateway 2000 is just as bad, and everybody else is worse. So yeah, Dell is one of the better OEMs... not the best, but they're decent. I just hate them for all of my friends and relatives they've ripped off, and for having to deal with their super-crappy workstations at work.

Probably the biggest reason all the people on this forum dislike Dell so much is we are all looking at them from the relative perspective of building our own PCs, which is so much more worth it. For example, if you built that system instead and could be smarter about your parts choices than Dell allows you to be, you could have two SLI Geforce 6800 Ultras and probably still pay less! That's almost twice the speed of the card Dell lets you buy.

Stoobie777 · Dec 2, 2004

With that being said , you mind listing all the TOP components to building the Fastest PC possible for under $5k ??

grafixmonkey · Dec 3, 2004

I always start with what you want to do with the machine. You've got components in there that are only helpful for video editing and not helpful for games, and components that are helpful for games and not helpful for anything else, and components that are overkill for either one.

So, which of the following do you plan on doing?
video capturing and editing
modern 3D games
3D modeling and design, with 3D Studio Max, Maya, or Lightwave

And, how much storage space do you really need? Because that system you've spec'd out has nearly as much storage as my monster video editing workstation, and I keep huge raw video clips around and still don't fill it up. My gaming PC has at least 25 games installed on it with only a 200GB hard drive, and it's only half full and levels load just as fast as they do on my graphics station and its RAID array.

I'll post a parts list in a bit and I bet the price will surprise you.

mozzartusm · Dec 3, 2004

Now your talking!!!!!!! Like Monkey said, be very specific with what you plan on doing with this system. I just built a system for around $1200.00 and I thought that was top of the line. With 5K to spend, you can build one that will do the cooking and cleaning for you. 😎

Stoobie777 · Dec 3, 2004

Well Honestly dont do much gaming , just a little . I use it to work on, I work out of my home doing day trading and Ebay. So I usually have LOTS of programs open at the same time. And I want something that will not bog down becuase of having 10-20 Diffrent programs/IE windows open at the same time with MSN,AOL,YAHOO,ICQ messengers all running with music being played. and with the day trading when I click to sell I need it to work not be Bogged down becuase of the 20 other windows/programs open.
Suggest away. As always money is a factor but not so much as I could lose alot more money by having a slow/bogged down pc and missing a buy or sell on some stock shares

mozzartusm · Dec 3, 2004

You seem like a fairly intelligent person, so I will assume that you are at the very least a fairly good researcher. By that I simply mean that you look at different options and scenarios before making a descion. "I was a Stock Broker for about 10 years" I threw that in because you said you were a day trader. That in itself tells me that you have the ability to think for yourself. Most people fall short in this category. My first question is this; You said that you wanted a system that didnt get bogged down in the case you were running multiple applications at one time. Is this why you were considering all of those Hard drives? Also, If your going to be working with multiple applications were you planning on using multiple monitors? Oh, and you will probably find that you can do alot more than you would ever need with much less money.

grafixmonkey · Dec 3, 2004

<EDIT: Ignore the orange text section. You don't want SLI, it won't benefit your needs at all. (I was posting this while you were replying above - given the new info, you don't want SLI.)>
Ok, first off, SLI video cards and motherboards are supposed to be out VERY soon. That by itself will give you twice the video card performance that Dell would have given you. But it's not quite available yet. If it were, you'd get this motherboard and graphics card:

$300.00 <A HREF="http://usa.asus.com/products/mb/socket939/a8nsli-d/overview.htm" target="_new">ASUS A8N-SLI DELUXE NFORCE4 MOTHERBOARD</A>
$495.00 XFX Geforce 6800 GT PCI-Express
$495.00 XFX Geforce 6800 GT PCI-Express

But I think SLI and PCI Express aren't quite worth it right now. It's always dangerous to jump on a new technology, especially a new bus type, the minute it comes out. It ends up having bugs in it, and you get to be one of the people who has to put up with the problems until they get fixed. Much nicer to watch other people hammer those out and then get the new technology when it's stable and well-supported.

So if you don't wait for PCI Express parts to come out in the next several weeks, and if the thing you want this computer for is running games, then this is what you want:

$400.00 <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-130-208&depa=0" target="_new">EVGA Geforce 6800 GT with Doom3 Bundle</A> (easily overclocks to Ultra speeds with no special modifications needed.)

$140.00 <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-468&depa=0" target="_new">MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum NForce3 Ultra motherboard</A>

$295.00 <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-498&depa=1" target="_new">AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Winchester, Retail Box</A>
(which you can see <A HREF="http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041115/pentium4_570-12.html#directx_9" target="_new">Here</A> is faster than the P4 570 in games.

$190.00 <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-141-144&depa=1" target="_new">1GB Dual Channel DDR PC3500 memory</A> with room for overclocking. You won't need more than a gigabyte, but if you want you can get <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-141-182&depa=1" target="_new">this</A> instead. (but there's no room for overclocking.)

$65.00 <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=27-106-962&depa=1" target="_new">Lite-On 16x Double Layer CD/DVD +/- R/RW Drive, Black</A>

$7.00 <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=21-103-203&depa=1" target="_new">Samsung Black Floppy Drive</A> Hey, might need it for SATA drivers.

$100.00 <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-129-127&depa=1" target="_new">Antec Sonata quiet computer case w/ 380W power supply</A> I'm pretty sure 380W is enough for an Athlon64 and a 6800 GT. Might want to ask on the forum to be sure. If it's not you've still saved enough to buy any replacement power supply you want.

$354 (2x $177) <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-144-160&depa=1" target="_new">WD Raptor 74GB 10,000rpm hard drive, x2 RAID-0</A> In a gaming machine you'll be hard pressed to use more than this, but if you do you can buy another drive later.

$400 to $1000 Go to Best Buy or someplace and find a monitor that you really like the look of. (you really can't shop for those online.)

$112 <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=29-102-171&depa=1" target="_new">Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS Gamer Edition</A> with a bunch of games included.

$30 or so for a keyboard, maybe like <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=23-184-003&depa=1" target="_new">This One</A> that has a backlight for the keys for playing in the dark.

$30 or so for a mouse, maybe like <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=26-105-148&depa=1" target="_new">This One</A>. I like the side buttons, great for extra functions in games like zoom, run, or grenades.

EDIT: forgot the OS. Knew I left something out. Modified final prices.
$100 for <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=37-102-151&depa=0" target="_new">Windows XP Home</A>

Did I miss anything? I think that's all you need to have a great system. You could bump up to a 6800 Ultra for another $150 or so, if you don't want to bother with overclocking to match or exceed the performance of the Radeon X800 XT.

The total is now $2223 to $2823 depending what monitor you get, or maybe $2373 to $2973 if you get a 6800 Ultra instead of a 6800 GT. Shipping might cost another $40 or so due to the case. It also comes with Doom3, Star Wars: Jedi Academy, Splinter Cell, Halo, Rainbow Six 3, and Tomb Raider: Angel Of Darkness. You could even <A HREF="http://www.mwave.com/mwave/ProdMOTHERBOARDBUNDLE-MSI.hmx?updepts=BUNDLE.hmx&DNAME=MB+BUNDLE+w/+CPU&back=ProdMOTHERBOARDBUNDLE-MSI.hmx?" target="_new">buy the motherboard, cpu, and ram together as a bundle</A> at mwave.com and have them assemble and test them for you before shipping.

See why we like building computers?

EDIT: also this system will be more towards the gaming end than you will want, but it is comparable to the Dell system.

Edited by grafixmonkey on 12/03/04 00:39 AM.

grafixmonkey · Dec 3, 2004

Well Honestly dont do much gaming , just a little . I use it to work on, I work out of my home doing day trading and Ebay. So I usually have LOTS of programs open at the same time. And I want something that will not bog down becuase of having 10-20 Diffrent programs/IE windows open at the same time with MSN,AOL,YAHOO,ICQ messengers all running with music being played. and with the day trading when I click to sell I need it to work not be Bogged down becuase of the 20 other windows/programs open.
Suggest away. As always money is a factor but not so much as I could lose alot more money by having a slow/bogged down pc and missing a buy or sell on some stock shares

OK with that information, that Dell is the WRONG system for you. The parts list I gave probably is also more than you need towards the gaming end, and less than what you need towards the "doing lots of stuff at once" end.

Also, If your going to be working with multiple applications were you planning on using multiple monitors? Oh, and you will probably find that you can do alot more than you would ever need with much less money.

As Mozzartusm suggests, multiple monitors is what is really going to make you love the new computer.

What you would benefit most from is a Quadro NVS video card or a Matrox video card, not a Geforce 6800. Why? Because with a Quadro NVS, you can have up to four screens attached at once, and be able to watch all kinds of stuff at once without overlapping windows and constantly alt-tabbing. But you won't be playing games on a Quadro NVS at all. You can do dual-screen on a 6800 GT, and that's enough for me (I use dual screen) and you'd have good games performance too.

You should also look into installing <A HREF="http://gaim.sourceforge.net" target="_new">Gaim</A> instead of all those chat programs. It will do all of those in a single program, and condense all your chats into a single well-organized window with side tabs for each conversation.

Also, a slow or bogged down PC is often the result of spyware or hijacking programs worming their way into your computer, rather than a slow processor. A really good anti-virus-spyware-spam package would benefit you greatly.Edited by grafixmonkey on 12/03/04 00:31 AM.

mozzartusm · Dec 3, 2004

I just wanted to throw this in about the case. I havent owned many different cases, but i have recently built two systems. The first one is inside a Thermaltake Tsunami the other is Thermaltakes newest case "The Shark". Ivve been harping on this case, but it is a great case. It is quite, and when I say quite I mean jsut that. Not quiter than most, this thing is silent compared to most others that I have heard. It has plently of room. It looks great, Im over clocking and the two 120 fans keep this case very cool. They did something different with the side panel. I love this Mod. Instead of a clear side panel that would include a fan they use a honeycomb side panel. No need for a fan, thus reducing the noise even more. The only thing that you really hear is the fans in the PSU. Take a look at their website and see what you think.

grafixmonkey · Dec 3, 2004

I haven't seen that case yet, I'll check it out. I have the Antec Sonata and I like it so much, the only reason I'd choose any other case would be to spend less money or get a heftier built-in power supply. (or to fit 13 hard drives into a single box like I did with my workstation... Wish I could get that thing quieted down a bit. Probably not possible.)

rocket_sauce · Dec 3, 2004

Just wanted to throw this in as well. You could probably sell the 40% Dell coupon you got towards a new computer. I am currently peicing togther a new computer and have learned tons of stuff from everyone here. My system will be a gaming system so I will not be able to help you with recommendations, but I would assume that an AMD64 would be a wise choice giving all the work load you will be doing with that computer. I could be biased by now though

. Like what was said before, your computer will be faster and less expensive with AMD. Intel is more popular and more readily available and more expensive. If I had $5K to play with...Oh my God! I would build the dream machine of the Gods! It truely is an experience and more fun than you think. Pretty easy once you get the hang of what you are looking for.

mozzartusm · Dec 3, 2004

How much did your case cost? I always try to tell people that in the end whatever they like the best is the ultimate choice. I looked at a case like yours, but I got the fever and preordered mine. It was $159.00 after shipping. I think that they have actually gone up a litlle since then. Thats kind of strange, because usually prices are higher at first then drop later.

Huh · Dec 3, 2004

$400.00 EVGA Geforce 6800 GT with Doom3 Bundle (easily overclocks to Ultra speeds with no special modifications needed.)

Where do I find information on overclocking this card? This is the card I have.

Yes, I'm lazy so I wouldn't mind you coming to my place to overclock it as long as you do it for free. (I'm cheapskate as well!!!)

RichPLS · Dec 3, 2004

Off to see the Wizard, the wonderfull Wizard of Oz!

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

grafixmonkey · Dec 3, 2004

I think I favor the Antec Sonata. It's around the $100 mark, and I really can't hear anything inside the case at all unless there's no noise in the room whatsoever. I suppose I built the rest of the computer around silence as well, which wouldn't be the case if Stoobie built it (he probably wouldn't want to have to install the heatsink himself, which means stock HS/F and have it assembled before shipping at Mwave.com), so the Tsunami with two 120mm fans might be better I suppose. The Sonata can only mount one 120mm fan, but it's designed so that the air that fan sucks into the case can only enter through the air filter port, and puts a breeze over the hard drives on its way in.

So Stoobie, what do you think of all this? Does your coupon save you so much that building isn't worth it, or do you like the idea of being able to pick your parts to maximize your actual benefit from the new computer?

grafixmonkey · Dec 3, 2004

Where do I find information on overclocking this card? This is the card I have.

Yes, I'm lazy so I wouldn't mind you coming to my place to overclock it as long as you do it for free. (I'm cheapskate as well!!!)

I'll come over if you're a single female within biking distance. (rats, didn't think so.)

Look in the video cards forum. That's all they ever talk about. A program called RivaTuner might do it too (or it might be wayyyy too technical and powerful and not help you at all.)

Hogman2757 · Dec 8, 2004

Hello - I also need help specifying a motherboard and processor. I have an older gateway 2000, multimedia, G6-233 that I would like to rebuild/upgrade. I did not get any help from gateway and 4 differetn technicians said 4 different things!! It is a good case, peripherals, etc... so I hate to throw it out. I can't get the Windows 95 to work anymore, I can't upgrade to ME, and it is too slow for an upgrade to XP, so I thought I would take a stab at rebuilding it up, but can't find the specifications of what to put in it!
Thanks

mozzartusm · Dec 8, 2004

Start a new post in the Motherboard section and you may get more attention.

HELP !! I need help choosing Processor !!!!!!

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