Question Help needed: Samsung can't update 860 EVO firmware

[mraroid]

Hi folks...

People here that use Samsung drives know that recently, Samsung combined its cloning software into its HD monitoring software called Samsung Magician.

I am upgrading a very old HP laptop (HP EliteBook Revolve 810 G2). It has a 150 GB M.2 SS drive in it and it is full. I have a 500 GB Samsung 860 EVO M.2 drive that I am trying to clone the 64 bit Windows 10 OS onto.

I plugged the 860 drive into an external USB 3.0 housing and plugged it into a USB 2.0 port in the HP computer. I formatted the 860 and did not assign a drive letter. I rebooted. I then downloaded the latest Samsung magician software. Before I had the chance to start the cloning process, I received a pop up in the magician software. It said the firmware on the 860 drive was RVT21B6Q and the latest firmware is now RVT24B62. The software said to update the firmware so I started the process. The magician software downloaded the new firmware, then the firmware update stopped and I got an error message in red letters saying " Error. We can not update the firmware."

In this new magician software, it has an AI help menu you are supposed to use to ask a question if something is not working. So I wrote out the above and a few seconds later the AI said words to the effect "Sorry, I can't help. I am still learning". I had already updated the BIOS of the HP laptop before trying anything (this laptop is either 10 or 11 years old).

I am going to move this external 860 drive to a more modern Windows 10 computer and give that a try. If it still fails, I am not sure what to try next.

Has anyone had issues like this or have any suggestions?

Many thanks,

mraroid

 

[USAFRet]

Magician does not work well, or not at all, through an external enclosure.

For cloning, it does.
Upgrading firmware, probably not.

 

[kerberos_20]

USB wont update firmware, only thunderbolt SATA/M2 enclosures works

 

[mraroid]

Hello gentleman... Thanks for the great feedback. The M.2 enclosure I am using is this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MNFH1PX?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

It talks about the many diffrent M.2 drives/enc losers. One group is called NVME and the other group is called SATA. The Samsung drive I have is called V-NAND SSD 860 EVO SATA M.2

A drawing from the above shows a SATA M.2 drive that is suppose to be supported called a B+M Key.

If you look at the above Amazon link and then look at image number three, you can see what I am talking about.

So, this 10 year old laptop I am trying to clone onto this 860 EVO drive is so old that it has no thunderbolt ports on it - just USB 2.0 ports.

When I moved the above enclosure from that older laptop and plugged it into my newer laptop (which also has no thunderbolt inputs) , the Samsung Magician software IDs the Samsung 860 drive in the above enclosure as the name of the company that makes the enclosure, and not the Samsung drive that is inside of it! This is driving me Bat S***T!

Do I need to buy a diffrent vendors enclosure? The Samsung 860 EVO M.2 drive I have has two cut outs in it (not one as more modern M.2 drives have). Again look at the Amazon link, image number 3 and see the drawing of a M.2 drive that is called SATA B+M Key for a picture of the drive I have.

Any suggestions?

Thanks for trying to help me.

mraroid

 

[USAFRet]

Any suggestions?

Install that drive internally, to an appropriate M.2 SATA port.

As said, Samsung Magician has issues trying to work through USB enclosures.
ANY USB enclosure.

Clone it, install internally in the laptop, THEN update the drive firmware.

 

[kerberos_20]

The Samsung 860 EVO M.2 drive I have has two cut outs in it (not one as more modern M.2 drives have)

two cutouts = B+M (SATA), one cutout = M (pcie x4)

 

[mraroid]

Install that drive internally, to an appropriate M.2 SATA port.

As said, Samsung Magician has issues trying to work through USB enclosures.
ANY USB enclosure.

Clone it, install internally in the laptop, THEN update the drive firmware.

Install that drive internally, to an appropriate M.2 SATA port.

As said, Samsung Magician has issues trying to work through USB enclosures.
ANY USB enclosure.

Clone it, install internally in the laptop, THEN update the drive firmware.

USAFRet... I have read many of your posts and you know more about computers than I could ever learn. Having said that, I have built maybe 4 or 5 desktops/laptops and used Samsung M.2 drives and the housing I used was a USB one. The firmware updates went with out a hitch as well as the cloning.

The one big difference is that all the M.2 drives that I have used (all Samsung) only had one cut out in them, not the two cut outs like the one in this 10 year old laptop. So maybe that has something to do with it??

Here is a question about M.2 drives maybe you or someone here can answer for me. The M.2 drive in this old laptop and the ones shown in the service manual, all show a M.2 drive with two cut outs in it.

Do you think I could buy a more common M.2 drive with just one cut out in it and plug that into this 10 year old laptop?

Up until this old laptop, I thought all M.2 drives were all the same but for NVME or SATA. And this Samsung drive does not call itself either of them - it calls it's self a "V-NAND" drive. What the heck is that? And are some M.2 drives external housings made just for V-NAND SATA M.2 drives?

Can you recommend your favorite cloning software to me? I have only used the Samsung cloning software for the past 10 years or so.

Many thinks for your help.

mraroid

 

[USAFRet]

Do you think I could buy a more common M.2 drive with just one cut out in it and plug that into this 10 year old laptop?

"M.2" can be either SATA or NVMe.
They are not interchangeable. The brains of the motherboard and port matter.

Your laptop can likely only utilize a SATA M.2 drive.
Which the 860 EVO is.

Do the clone, swap drives, then worry about the firmware.
Having an earlier firmware version is not the end of the world.

 

[MWink64]

Up until this old laptop, I thought all M.2 drives were all the same but for NVME or SATA. And this Samsung drive does not call itself either of them - it calls it's self a "V-NAND" drive. What the heck is that? And are some M.2 drives external housings made just for V-NAND SATA M.2 drives?

The 860 EVO is SATA. V-NAND is just Samsung's name for 3D NAND (BiCS is another). Virtually all modern SSDs use 3D NAND. It has absolutely no bearing on the interface.

I'll agree that the firmware update probably isn't especially important. I haven't updated mine and vaguely recall the changelog for that version not sounding like a high priority.

 

[mraroid]

"M.2" can be either SATA or NVMe.
They are not interchangeable. The brains of the motherboard and port matter.

Your laptop can likely only utilize a SATA M.2 drive.
Which the 860 EVO is.

Do the clone, swap drives, then worry about the firmware.
Having an earlier firmware version is not the end of the world.

Hi USAFRet.... I tried to clone the Samsung 860 without updating the firmware. But the Samsung magician software only saw the M.2 external housing the 860 was in. It ID'ed the housing, but it did not see the Samsung 860 drive that was in the housing. And yes, the 860 had already been formatted with no drive letter.

I can buy another (diffrent brand) M.2 enclosure I guess. The brand I bought says it supports SATA M.2 and it has a drawing of a M.2 drive with two cut outs in it which is what this Samsung 860 has....

This is sure puzzling to me....

mraroid

 

[mraroid]

The 860 EVO is SATA. V-NAND is just Samsung's name for 3D NAND (BiCS is another). Virtually all modern SSDs use 3D NAND. It has absolutely no bearing on the interface.

I'll agree that the firmware update probably isn't especially important. I haven't updated mine and vaguely recall the changelog for that version not sounding like a high priority.

Now if I could only get the Samsung software to see the 860 when it is in a SATA M.2 enclosure I would be on my way. I will buy another brand of enclosure and see if that helps any.

Thanks for your help.
mraroid

 

[satrow]

Try installing the Samsung SATA drivers, without them (or basic MS SATA drivers), it won't be able to update the firmware or activate TRIM.

 

[mraroid]

Try installing the Samsung SATA drivers, without them (or basic MS SATA drivers), it won't be able to update the firmware or activate TRIM.

Hi.. When you say install the Samsung SATA drivers, I am not sure what you are talking about. You are not talking about the firmware for the Samsung SATA drive, right? I went to both my Windows computers and looked in Device Manager and I could not find any SATA drivers. Under Disk Drives (in device manager) it just listed the name of the SS drives.

Where would I look for drivers and where might I down load them ?

Thanks for your help.
mraroid

 

[satrow]

Samsung or MS basic SATA (Windows 7 dated) drivers first, else firmare and Trim can be blocked, same applies to Crucial and probably most, if not all, other brands.

Should be listed on Samsung's drivers or downloads pages.

Windows drivers can be changed/installed via Device Manager.

 

[mraroid]

Samsung or MS basic SATA (Windows 7 dated) drivers first, else firmare and Trim can be blocked, same applies to Crucial and probably most, if not all, other brands.

Should be listed on Samsung's drivers or downloads pages.

Windows drivers can be changed/installed via Device Manager.

Hi... Thanks for that additional information. I went Samsung and they do have drivers for some of it's M.2 SS drives. But they only have drivers for NVMe M.2 drives, not SATA M.2 drives. And the drivers available are for Samsung drives starting with the 9 series. My drive is a 860 and it is not listed at all.

Well, I learned something today. Thanks for pointing that out to me. I am still stuck, but maybe a diffrent brand of M.2 enclosure will work...

mraroid