Help Verify My Upgrade Specs

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How much does that particular model cost? Also what does it cool? The CPU only, or other parts also? Im not familiar with that model, my first water system was the Thermaltake Bigwater. Its ok, and for someone that has never used one it is easy to install. The Radiator can go inside or out, and so can the pump if need be. This model only comes with the CPU heatsink, but thats all I really needed anyway. I have tweaked this cooling system every way that I know to and have had some very surprising results. I will probably get laughed at for this comment but here it goes anyway. My case "Thermaltake Shark" has one 120 intake fan on the front and one 120 exhaust fan on the back. Of course there are also the two fans in the PSU. The Radiator and its 120 fan mount in the place of the exhaust fan. Basically the setup doesnt change as far as the case venting goes. My case stays very cool so I decided to try something different. I reversed the rear fan that sits on the radiator so that it pulled cool air into the case. Now this means that I have two fans on each end pulling air into the case and only the PSU to vent the warm air. To my surprise, my CPU temps fell around 7C under full load. That is probably being conservative"The numbers". There isnt much if any noticeable change in temps on the other components or the case temp. I have ran the machine both ways and used my infrared thermometer over hours of testing so I am confident that these temps are correct.

The other thing that will increase performance by decreasing temps is to use a different flow path than the one Thermaltake instructs you to use. Im not sure what other companys suggest for their flow direction, but Thermaltake instructs you to go from the pump - Waterblock"CPU"-Into Radiator-Out Radiator-Back to Pump. This struck me as odd but I set it up as the instructions said. It does fine that way, but if you change the flow direction it will help another 3-5C. Out of Pump-In Radiator-Out Radiator-In Waterblock"CPU"-Out Waterblock-In Pump. This way the the hot water is being cooled just before it hits the Waterblock. Like I said, either way is fine, but after hours of reading the temps with an Infrared thermometer I am convinced that changing the flow direction is best. I think that part of the difference is because the pump itself puts off some heat so this variation takes that out of the equation.
 
That was the only concern that I had. I doubt very seriously that it would have much if any of an effect on the pump. The water isnt that hot to begin with. I made one other modification that I should have mentioned. I added an extra resivior between the CPU and the pump. This does two things, it adds more liquid and it also gives the liquid a little while longer to cool on its own before it reaches the pump. Something the size of a 16 to 20oz drink bottle makes a world of difference.
 
I received my computer parts fri and built the system under the guise of testing it with the Zalman CNPS7700 cooler (Air), and if i didin't get acceptable results, switching to liquid cooling.

I'm happy to report that my origional assertion that the Zalman could handle it appears to be correct AT THIS TIME, here is the testbed:

Pentium 4 Prescott 560J @ 1068.5 MHz FSB & 3.739 GHz
(CPU Lock Free Enabled, 266 x14)
Corsair XMS2 DDR2-675 @ 711 MHz (ratio 3:4)
P5AD2-E Premium Motherboard (overclock set to manual)
Voltages set to auto, allowing MOBO to determine optimum voltage dynamically
PCIe locked to 100, PCI locked to PCIe
Zalman CNPS7700 (At High Fanspeed, 2000rpm)
7 Ultrasilent 80mm case fans (at High Fanspeed, 4 in 3 out)

(65% of my software and files have been loaded back onto the new system HDD)


And the Results:

Idle Temp: 28-29C PEAK (background programs)

Light Workload Temp: 34-36C PEAK (Music playing, web browsing, word proccessing, updating Norton Antivirus, background programs)

Moderate Workload Temp: 38-40C PEAK (Music playing, web browsing x5 windows, word proccessing, updating software, zipping file, watching DVD, background programs)

Heavy Load: 52-53C PEAK (3D Mark 2001SE run 3 times in a row, background programs)

Cool down from 53 to 28C, 38 seconds.



Now, granted, that's not 7C, but you have to at least agree it's not bad at all, and very good for a prescott (AT THIS TIME, i will stress it more when i get everything loaded back on my HDD).
 
By comparison.
S754 3200+ @ 222 mem X 11 (130 nano chip)
Stock hsf, with stock TIM, 0 case fans
Asus K8N-E Deluxe
C&Q dissabled
idle = 34c
normal op = 39c
normal op, with folding running at 100% cpu usage, after 20 days, I'll check, oh gee, i'm up to 52c.
 
It would be nice if we could put the past behind us. We may actually be able to help each other at this point. Those numbers do sound good. Maybe they will stay the same if you decide to push the system higher. Does your board allow you to monitor the heat of your Northbridge? That would be my main concern right now. Your CPU seems to be ok, but the Northbridge may not. Of course I dont know if yours has a fan or not. That heatsink that you are using probably is very close to the Northbridge. If your board doesnt tell you the temps on the Northbridge, if you have a digital thermometer "An Infrared would be better" will do. Just be careful not to touch anything other than the heatsink and of course make sure you have touched the case so that you dont fry the MoBo. If you hold the digital thermometer to the heatsink, it will give you a close reading. If you try this method, get the temps on each side as well as the middle of the heatsink and try to get get the reading from the bottom quarter of the heatsink. One side or the other will probably be hotter than the other. On the boards that I have tested, the hotter side is the side that matters.

Have you checked out our folding team yet. We need all the help we can get. We have a very competitive team and have really gained some major ground in the competition. There are many positve reasons to use this program, and one of them is that it give you a good idea of what temps your system is going to put off over the long haul. Keep on testing and congradulations on your system.

On a side note, what PSU are you using? Also, the next time your in the BIOS take a look at your voltages. I would like to have a comparison for my system. The ones im interested in are the VCORE, VDIMM, +12V, +5V, +3V. My VCORE in particular bothers me. It doesnt seem to pull the voltage that it should. Thanks!
 
ehhh.... it's FSB to DRAM. 3:4

The northbridge is at 33C, with the cpu at 30C, computer is under a light load ATM. Asus chose passive cooling for the northbridge, but it's an innovative design that seems to work very well, i've never seen it go above 37C (that was under full load). But the Zalman is also cooling it cause it's so damn huge, half the northbridge sits directly under the copper heatsing ridges.

I'm using an Enermax 485Watt ATX 2.0 PSU.
according to the AsusProbe:
+12v is at 12.619
+5v is at 5.299
+3.3v is at 3.344
VCore is at 1.28 (however it's set to auto so it can change dynamically depending on load, and CPU-Z reports it averaging around 1.471v, and peaking at 1.557v)
 
Well so far it's done very well in my opinion, i hope it continues to do so, at this point it looks good. I considered ramping it up to 4Ghz, i actually had it there be4 switching the multiplier down to 14 so i could up the FSB. It was perfectly stable and cool. but i don't know how it would be now that the FSB is up to 1068 and the clock is at 3.74, i'll give it a gradual try tho.

As for temp, i've NEVER seen it go higher than 53C in anything i've done so far, and as soon as it's done working it's cooled back to 28C in a matter of seconds. i have the Asus probe set to warn me if it hits 60C.

As for the voltage, you don't think letting the mobo change it dynamically is a good idea? it seems to work ok, it jumps up whenever i start working the CPU, and jumps back down at idle.
 
The Zalman fans are rated very highly. I bought the exact same fan LS has but it wouldn't work on my MB. That is the only hang up(see a) with Zalman's newest monster. hehehe. It would have worked except for the Dimm slots were over-shadowed and I couldn't get my Corsairs with the heat sinks in the slots.
(heres what happened to me)

<A HREF="http://www.3dnews.ru/documents/8635/issue_dimm.jpg" target="_new">Picture of my dilemna</A>

It would seem by their design that they were made more specifically for the 775 board since there is nothing to obstruct it on that board.

I ended up downsizing to the zalman 7000-cuLed model instead which will still work great I'm sure. The reason they work so well wusy is because of the open flute design of the Heat Sink. Not only does the copper draw heat away from the cpu quickly but then the very large fan wisks that heat away from there very quickly. In addition to cooling the CPU, the Zalman also cools the northbridge, VGA,RAM and any other components in the vicinity of it. The fact that they cool really well is not their only selling point. The other factor is that they are ultra quiet. More quiet than any air cooled system and just as quiet as some water cooled systems.

(a) oh yeah. the other hang up is that they are pretty damn heavy. 918g worth, but they come with a pretty beefy backup plate to ensure a solid connection to the mobo and unless you take up juggling PC's for a living it should be fine.

Everything I've read has praised these wonderful coolers. Even our host THG.

<A HREF="http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041213/" target="_new">What Tom has to say</A>

here's another review:

<A HREF="http://www.digital-daily.com/cooling/zalman-7700cu/" target="_new">Digital Dailey's comments</A>

Bottom line:

I think OCers would benefit the <b>MOST</b> from this nifty cooler. :)

<font color=green>AMD 64 3700+
ASUS K8N-E Deluxe
CORSAIR XMS (1gb) PC-3200
Gigabyte GF 6800gt 256mb
Audigy 2 ZS
2_36.7gb Raptors/Raid 0
Tt 480 watt PSU</font color=green>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by lazerous on 01/11/05 11:01 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
As for the voltage, you don't think letting the mobo change it dynamically is a good idea?
Click to expand...
Its probably going to require some added voltage depending on how far you go. Its a game of trial and error. If you get to a certain point and dont have total stability, thats when you will have to start adding or taking away. There are a number of different factors that will come into play the higher you go.
 
The 7700-cu cost about $50 US and the smaller 7000-cu cost about $45 US. I ended up with both because i couldn't make the larger one work but 7000 should be fine. They also make these product in a variety of configurations. For instance the smaller one I just bought has blue LED lights with a clear fan desin for modded cases. They also make hybrid models in which the heatsink is part copper and part aluminum as in the 7700-AlCu or the 7000-AlCu.

<A HREF="http://www.zalmanusa.com/eng/product/code_list.asp?code=005" target="_new">Here is the link to their site</A> if you want to check out Zalman's line of cooling products. They also make solutions for VGA, Northbridge, Case, PSU and HDD cooling as well as Watercooling. :smile:

<font color=green>AMD 64 3700+
ASUS K8N-E Deluxe
CORSAIR XMS (1gb) PC-3200
Gigabyte GF 6800gt 256mb
Audigy 2 ZS
2_36.7gb Raptors/Raid 0
Tt 480 watt PSU</font color=green>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by lazerous on 01/11/05 12:00 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
Usually 120mm fans have a max rpm of 2500 rpm's. while this may not be as high as your typical 80mm fans, 120mm fans have twice the max airflow of an 80mm fan and they are usually much quieter. *weighs it out_does the math* (+++ twice as much air and less noise +++) Hmmmm..........

If you want to try and custom fit a better fan on it try the <A HREF="http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-fm121.htm" target="_new"> Silverstone fans.</A> They have probably the highest output to least noise you can find. (2400rpm max. to 110.03cfm max. @ 39.5db max.) Might be a pretty tricky mod though but i wouldn't say impossible.

Did you see how the Zalman also cools your other chipsets near the CPU in addition to doing a fabulous job of cooling the CPU?

+++ It's very hard to argue with the temps that LogicSequence is getting as well. I would have to say temps in that range for the CPU are fabulous.

To each their own I guess. 😎

<font color=green>AMD 64 3700+
ASUS K8N-E Deluxe
CORSAIR XMS (1gb) PC-3200
Gigabyte GF 6800gt 256mb
Audigy 2 ZS
2_36.7gb Raptors/Raid 0
Tt 480 watt PSU</font color=green>
 
Sunon definately makes a good fan. But it still can't stand next to the Silverstone. LOL

Your 120x25 spins at a max speed of 2400 rpms, only developing 69cfm air flow.(fairly quiet for 2400 rpm though.)

The 120x38mm fan develops quite a bit more air flow@108cfm, however it takes more rpm's and is noisier than the Silverstone.

The 120x25 Silverstone Model fm121 runs at a mere 2400 rpm's pushes 110.03 cfm and the noise level is 39.5 max. The only downfall it has is that its white, which for a case modder may not work. I solve this problem with UV paint.
<b>
<A HREF="http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-fm121.htm" target="_new">Power & Silence all in one package. Silverstone Model #fm121</A>
</b>

Like I said. The Sunon fans are also excellent fans and That was one of the fans on my list but that model only comes in black. Sometimes color matters. rofl. With the white I am able to paint with UV paint and it will be purple under the UV lighting.

<font color=green>AMD 64 3700+
ASUS K8N-E Deluxe
CORSAIR XMS (1gb) PC-3200
Gigabyte GF 6800gt 256mb
Audigy 2 ZS
2_36.7gb Raptors/Raid 0
Tt 480 watt PSU</font color=green>
 
well, whip yours out and maybe we will all get fan envy. hehehe :wink:

JK :wink:

<font color=green>AMD 64 3700+
ASUS K8N-E Deluxe
CORSAIR XMS (1gb) PC-3200
Gigabyte GF 6800gt 256mb
Audigy 2 ZS
2_36.7gb Raptors/Raid 0
Tt 480 watt PSU</font color=green>
 
Wow, by the sounds of this thread... I'm going to have to start putting more thought into my fan purchases. I have classically just let me wife pick the "prettiest" fan.
 
Yea i have been really pleased with the performance the Zalman offered. Now my case may be on the extreme Best case side b/c of the sheer number of 80mm fans the Xaser III comes with... so perhaps i'll turn some off and see what happened to the temperature. As we speek it's hovering at 28-29C.

I was rendering a scene in Lightwave 3D last nite (850,000 polys, 30 frames, AA medium, 640x480) and it never spiked above 49C.

As for the Vcore, IF i leave my system at its current OC, would letting the MOBO dynamically choose the voltage be ok? When i start bumping up the FSB some more i'll up the voltage periodically (what should i start out at when i bump it up?). To be honost it's run Great so far at these speeds, but i wouldn't mind at all seeing if i can get it up higher, i love cpu lock free :).

What i love about Asus is the AI Booster software, you can change the FSB and voltage in windows and don't even have to enter the bios :). How far up do you think i should try and push it?



About the Zalman, YEA IT'S HELLA HEAVY MAN, 2 lbs i think. But as said the backplate is definately sturdy, and once u have the front retention assembly on it's ROCK SOLID to the board. Only thing i would suggest is make sure when you fasen the Mobo to your case, don't leave out any screws, and make sure you tighten everything as far as you feel you can safely.

I gave my case a little jossle once i was done and the Zalman was definately secure, and the mobo was not under stress from the weight at all. But you have to make sure you have at least an inch or maybe 2 between the top of your mobo and your PSU, cause the zalman overlaps.



Mozz, the PSU i got was an ENERMAX Noisetaker AX ATX12V Ver 2.0 485W Power Supply, Model "EG495AX-VE SFMA 2.0". It was $120 from newegg <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-458&depa=0" target="_new">http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-458&depa=0</A>.

It's awesome in my opinion, ATX v2 (you can even seperate the additional 4 pins to make it 1.3), 12V P4 pin, 4 SATA plugs, a PCI-E plug, and as many molex and 4-pin as you could need, 9 molex and 3 4-pin IF memory serves. Not to mention 2 or 3 3-pin fan plugs. The main cable bundles are wrapped in mesh, and all the cables EASILY reached from the PSU base to the bottom of my XASER III. The fan speed is also adjustable via a nob on the rear.
 
I think that I am going to order one tommorow. I have experimented with countless numbers of BIOS combinations to see what my rig could squeeze out. The one thing that has made the biggest difference in stability is the PSU. I have 3 different ones that I have been swapping back and forth just to further prove to myself what a difference that a PSU can make. Ive got a Thermaltake, an Antec, and a Sparkle. All three are good PSU's, but the Antec has given me the best stability at the really high clocks.

That unlock feature on your board must be nice, My board is a good one for overclocking these CPU's, but it doesnt have that feature. I broke 4.1 yesterday, and that is out of a 3.4 that is locked. Have you benchmarked with 3DMark05, or 01 yet? If you have, let me know what scores your hitting. Ive got the 6600GT and would like to see the difference that your card makes. On a side note, you should join the THG folding team. We are very competitive and could use your help.
 
Well the FSB is already at 266 b/c the CPU multiplier is at 14 instead of 18, which let me get to a 1066 MHz Bus speed at 3.73 GHz. So unless you mean change the multiplier back to 18 and loose that nice extra bus speed 😉, i assume you meant try and get it up to about 282 (which would be 1128 MHz Bus speed at 3.948 GHz)?


mozz, i haven't run 3dmark2001se in quite a while FOR SCORING that is (i ran it to test the temp on my machine tho). If someone could tell me the best way to optimize my system to squeak out the best score (without furthering the OC, i assume u want to see the score at the current level?) i'll run it and post the results.
 
Actually just benchmark it at your current speed and that will be perfect for my comparison. I think that I recall you have the 6800 card dont you? Have you OC'd it any? My6600GT has a program called WINFOX that makes this very easy.

On your CPU overclock, im not familiar with the unlocked multilplier option so im not sure what to tell you. Ill look into it and see if I can figure it out. Have you played around with the PCIexpress frequency control in BIOS? mine set to auto is 110. Im not sure what this actually does or how or when to use it. Im curious if you have figured it out?
 
wusy, well it's kinda half-wicked, lol. Intel still locks the multiplier, BUT what has been found out is that with the right mobo and bios, you can change the cpu to something like a factory testing mode, which switches the multiplier to it's lowest setting, so this gives you the option of A. Normal (in my case 18) or B. Low (14). Granted it's not as scalable as having a completely unlocked multiplier, but it's hella better than previous P4's.

mozz, My video card is an ATi FireGL V7100 (workstation card). I was kinda dissapointed in my 3DMark2001se score tho, so i'm gonna be ramping up the OC like wusy said and try and get it over 30,000. But it tested at 26,402 right now.

I manually set the PCIe frequency to 100 to decouple it from the ramped up FSB. I thought i read that 100 was standard for PCIe? is it 110? I'm under the impression that setting the PCI frequency is the same as decoupling PCI and setting it to 33.33/66.66, just to save those components (like an AGP video card) from being damaged by an overclock. And at least on my board, the PCI frequecy, when set to auto, is locked in ratio to the PCIe frequency, so if your PCIe is set to standard, and you leave the PCI set to auto, it's locked at standard as well.
 
wusy, just an update about the Vcore, i read this, a while back and totally forgot to post it when u started talking about setting the Vcore to 1.6. This is from <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com\antireligionclub3/prescott.htm" target="_new">http://www.geocities.com\antireligionclub3/prescott.htm</A> "The change is that these CPUs are on the 0.09micron technology, therefore vcore above 1.55 will not help, and at that it'll make sure your chip lasts for a few years."
 
Little Update. I hit 271 MHz FSB (1086 MHz bus clock @ 3.800 GHz) with no problems. Heat reminded virtually identical to previous results. I left the Vcore to Auto, so the Mobo ranged that anywhere from 1.28 - 1.554 depending on load, and it seemed to work just fine.

Tested that speed out with several games Mehwarrior 4 (full detail), Homeworld 2 (full detail) and several others. No problems, max temp 55C (1.554v). Lightwave rendering, no problems max temp 53C (1.504v). 3DMark2001se, no problems max temp 55C (1.554v). Idle 28-30C (1.28v).

I tried setting the volage to 1.55v in the bios, but that upped the idle temp 15C to around 45C, and i was seeing CPU spikes of 1.665v. So i saw no advantage to that...? Appearently that's just telling the mobo that 1.55 is the minimum value, with the max being in the 1.7v area. And like i said, MAD HEAT ISSUES. SOOOO ehhh, NOT SO MUCH, i'll stick with auto for now.

Currently i'm running at 275 MHz FSB (1101 MHz bus clock, 3.856 GHz). Temps virtually identical to above. Idles at 28-30C (1.28v), spikes on same tests 55C (1.554v). However i saw a system crash or two, so i have not isolated the problem yet. Aside from those, all tests passed fine as far as temp is concerned. I added SuperPi, passed to 8million digits fine (i'm too lazy to watch it go to 32m ATM). Calc to 1M took 33sec.

Right now i'm just doing normal stuff to see if i have any system crashes. Assuming i don't after a while, i'll re-run the stress tests. Any ideas on those crashes? Perhaps i should set the min voltage to 1.35 or something (as apposed to it's 1.28). From what i can tell tho, the dynamic voltage adjustment is what is allowing the cooler temperatures, the lower the voltage when the CPU is idle, the lower the temp.

As i said, the times it crashed the temperature was fine, below 55C, so obviously it was not overheating, that's why i was thinking voltage, but the voltage draw in CPU-Z and AsusProbe both read 1.554v. So, any ideas?

If anyone has experience with Overclocking the Asus P5AD2 or P5AD2-E Premium, please speak up if you have any advice for settings and what not. And any other general advice is always welcomed.
 
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