Question HELP with Fan RGB stuff

[benny653]

Hi there, I've seen a few threads similar to what I'm going to ask but I just want to confirm everything especially for my hardware.

I'm going to be getting the Phanteks P500a case and want to add 3 more Phanteks SK 120mm PWM DRGB fans.
2 on the top, 1 at rear.
Case: https://www.phanteks.com/Eclipse-P500A-DRGB.html
Additional Fans: https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/FANPHA03120/Phanteks-SK-120mm-PWM-Fan-Digital-RGB-3-pack-Black

I have a Gigabyte B450 Gaming X motherboard:

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/MBDGBM33406/Gigabyte-B450-Gaming-X-ATX-Motherboard-For-AMD-Ryz

It has these connections for fans (leaving out CPU ones):

SYS_FAN1 /2 /3 (4 pin)

LED_C (4 pin)
("max power rating 2A (12V)")

D_LED1 /2 (3 pin)
("max power rating 2A (5V)")

This is what I'm planning to do from what I've heard (please let me know if I'm right or wrong).

POWER:
The 3 stock front fans on the case are apparently not PWM so they are 3 pin, but that's fine, I can use a splitter and plug them into one of the 4 pin SYS_FAN headers right?

The other 3 fans are PWM 4 pin so I can just get a splitter and then plug into one of the other SYS_FAN headers?

RGB: (this is what's been bugging me)
So I want to control all my fans via software, my motherboard supports RGB Fusion 2.0.

For front 3 stock fans, can I just use a splitter that goes to one of the D_LED (5V)headers?

And for the other 3 fans get another splitter that goes to the other D_LED header?

I'm just worried about the voltage stuff because the D_LED headers say 5V but then the additional 120mm ones I'm gonna buy say "rated voltage 12V" or something.

But yeah it's mainly just all the voltage and rgb stuff I'm worried about, it'd be great to get some help.

Cheers.

 

[Paperdoc]

Watch out for confusion of "3-pin" and "4-pin", and Voltage specs.

Lighted fans today all come with TWO separate cables, because really each is two devices in one unit - a FAN, and LIGHTS. So one cable ends in a smaller connector with three or four holes in it and small ridges running down the side. This is the MOTOR cable. Fan motors come in two designs, the older 3-pin type called Voltage Control Fans (or DC Fans), and the newer 4-pin type called PWM Fans. These require different types of signals from the mobo fan header to control speed, but your mobo's headers all can be configured for either type. You just cannot mix the two different motor types on one header. Many refer to the MOTOR types a 3-pin or 4-pin fans. But both types use a power supply of 12 VDC max.

The second cable is for the LIGHTS in the frame, and is wider, but still with four holes (for a plain RGB type of lights), or 3 holes (looks like it had 4, but one is blocked off) for the more complex ARGB light system. So some people label the LIGHTS as 3-pin or 4-pin. But there IS a voltage difference here - the 4-pin plain RGB units require 12 VDC, but the 3-pin ARGB system requires 5 VDC. Confusion!

I think you have less problems that you describe, but another issue you have not noticed that CAN be handled. The web page for that case, I believe, says the three fans supplied with it are PWM-type (4-pin) motors and DIGITAL RGB lights, which is what Phanteks calls ARGB (3-pin) lights. So when you buy three more Phanteks PWM fans with Digital RGB lights, they are the SAME types both for motors and for lighting systems.

For the fan motors cables, you are correct. Two simple Splitters would allow you to create two groups of three fans each connected to two SYS_FAN headers you configure the same way for PWM Mode control.

For the LIGHTS in the fan frames you can connect all of them together to one source if it has the power. In many builds you'd just plug groups of them into mobo ARGB headers (you mobo has two called D_LED) and use the mobo's supplied utility to control them. Your particular problem is that Phanteks uses non-standard connectors that will not plug into a mobo header without some adapter. HOWEVER, the case includes a lighting hub with output connectors for the three supplied fans PLUS another (one?) output for added fan lights. To power those lights, there is a cable to plug into a SATA power output from the PSU, and you use a case front panel button for manual control. BUT they also include a cable to connect from that Hub to a mobo ARGB header, and a process to tell the lighting Hub to let the mobo signals take over control, rather than using the manual button. Look into that detail - there is often a particular way to use the manual button to turn over control to the mobo. ALSO check with Phanteks about HOW to connect THREE added fans' lights to the spare output from the Hub - it MAY need a Phanteks-special lighting splitter.

 

[benny653]

Watch out for confusion of "3-pin" and "4-pin", and Voltage specs.

Lighted fans today all come with TWO separate cables, because really each is two devices in one unit - a FAN, and LIGHTS. So one cable ends in a smaller connector with three or four holes in it and small ridges running down the side. This is the MOTOR cable. Fan motors come in two designs, the older 3-pin type called Voltage Control Fans (or DC Fans), and the newer 4-pin type called PWM Fans. These require different types of signals from the mobo fan header to control speed, but your mobo's headers all can be configured for either type. You just cannot mix the two different motor types on one header. Many refer to the MOTOR types a 3-pin or 4-pin fans. But both types use a power supply of 12 VDC max.

The second cable is for the LIGHTS in the frame, and is wider, but still with four holes (for a plain RGB type of lights), or 3 holes (looks like it had 4, but one is blocked off) for the more complex ARGB light system. So some people label the LIGHTS as 3-pin or 4-pin. But there IS a voltage difference here - the 4-pin plain RGB units require 12 VDC, but the 3-pin ARGB system requires 5 VDC. Confusion!

I think you have less problems that you describe, but another issue you have not noticed that CAN be handled. The web page for that case, I believe, says the three fans supplied with it are PWM-type (4-pin) motors and DIGITAL RGB lights, which is what Phanteks calls ARGB (3-pin) lights. So when you buy three more Phanteks PWM fans with Digital RGB lights, they are the SAME types both for motors and for lighting systems.

For the fan motors cables, you are correct. Two simple Splitters would allow you to create two groups of three fans each connected to two SYS_FAN headers you configure the same way for PWM Mode control.

For the LIGHTS in the fan frames you can connect all of them together to one source if it has the power. In many builds you'd just plug groups of them into mobo ARGB headers (you mobo has two called D_LED) and use the mobo's supplied utility to control them. Your particular problem is that Phanteks uses non-standard connectors that will not plug into a mobo header without some adapter. HOWEVER, the case includes a lighting hub with output connectors for the three supplied fans PLUS another (one?) output for added fan lights. To power those lights, there is a cable to plug into a SATA power output from the PSU, and you use a case front panel button for manual control. BUT they also include a cable to connect from that Hub to a mobo ARGB header, and a process to tell the lighting Hub to let the mobo signals take over control, rather than using the manual button. Look into that detail - there is often a particular way to use the manual button to turn over control to the mobo. ALSO check with Phanteks about HOW to connect THREE added fans' lights to the spare output from the Hub - it MAY need a Phanteks-special lighting splitter.

Alright cool thank you so much for the reply, really helps a lot.

I didn't know that the case included a hub but you're saying that all 3 stock will be connected to that and then I should contact phanteks about connecting the other 3 to it as well?
And so yeah like you said it just plugs into the 5V argb header? (I don't want to risk a poweroverload or something on the header)

Also do you know much about intake/outtake fan situations?
The front 3 would obviously be intake and single one on back as outtake, but what should the top 2 be?
My cpu is obviously not water cooled and just has a "Cryorig H7" on it and I think its just pulling air towards the single back one.

Or should I scrap the top 2 and the Cryorig H7 and just get a radiator with a pump to go on the top?

I have attached an amazing paint diagram lol

 

[Paperdoc]

Regarding the ARGB Hub, I suspect you do not have a problem. The case manual does not provide details. However, since it DOES say that you must plug a cable that feeds the hub into a SATA power output from the PSU, then I assume that ALL of the power for the lights that Hub feeds is drawn directly from the PSU, and none from any mobo header. That is a normal design for such a Hub, and it's fair to assume that Hub can power many more than three fans' lights. The cable from the mobo header then is used solely to provide the digital control signal for all the lights, and that has VERY little power draw, so there's no danger of overloading the header.

For fan arrangement, because you will have a FAN cooling your CPU with an associated heatsink, it is important to ensure that the air supply to that fan is generous. Normally that DOES happen in a case. But one situation that can cause a problem in such a case is mounting an exhaust fan in the top panel right in front of the CPU cooler unit. What happens if that is done is that the air intake by the top front fan is immediately "stolen" by that close top fan, and the air supply for the CPU fan right behind that is substantially reduced! By far the better advice is that you do NOT mount a fan above the CPU fan's intake. But DO install one in the top panel BEHIND the CPU cooler system. That puts three fans in the front panel as intakes behind dust filters (which reduce air intake slightly), and two exhaust fans at top and rear with no impediment to air flow to remove warmer air. That puts a total of five case ventilation fans in play, with slightly more air inflow capacity than exhaust. This results is a slight "positive pressure" inside the case - that is, the air pressure inside is slightly more than outside. That is desired because it means that at any small openings and cracks, the air flow will be from inside to out, preventing unwanted air INFLOW that bypasses the dust filters.

I don't know exactly what workload you expect on your system. People who plan heavy workloads (e.g. gaming) and/or plan to overclock their systems substantially need to provide very high cooling rates to remove a lot of heat. That is where a liquid-cooled AIO system can be important. But common users do well with a heatsink / fan system if it's a good one. Note that high-performance AIO systems are more complex and much more expensive, and they DO wear out just as fans do - sometimes more quickly - and then you face higher replacement costs. The Cryorg H7 cooler you plan has a TDP (Total Dissipated Power) rating of 140 W - that's a measure of the max amount of heat it can remove from your CPU. You have not told us which CPU chip you will use, but you can check the specs for the TPP rating of the CPU. As long as that is less than the TDP rating of the cooler system, you're OK, assuming no big overclocking plans.

 

[benny653]

Alright cool thank you so much for your time!
And sorry so just to confirm, will I might not need the PWM splitters as you think the fans will just be powered from the hub?

 

[Paperdoc]

Wooops! You are getting motors and lights mixed again.

The HUB unit built into the case I talked about is for the LIGHTS in those fans. I do expect that all of the fans' lights can be powered and connected to that Hub, although there is the matter of how to connect more than three fans with a lighting splitter suited to the connectors Phanteks uses

There's also this small detail: you proposed using six fans all together, but my later advice was NOT to mount one in the top front position, so you'd only be using five.

Now, just as there are similar terms used for fan motors and fan lights, there are SPLITTERS for each of those applications that are different. For the lights, you're already covered by the Hub. But you WILL need a couple of Splitters for the MOTORS to connect five to mobo headers. You have three SYS_FAN headers, but I suggest you'll use only two. Further, watch closely for the distinction between Splitters and Hubs for fan motors, because sellers often mix up the terms and mis-label them. A SPLITTER is a simple device that merely connects all its fans in parallel to the mobo header so they all receive the same signals and share the power supply from that header. It has one input "arm" with a female connector to plug into the host mobo header, and two or more output "arms" to plug in fans. It may look like a collection of cable "arms", a closed box with sockets in holes, or a small printed circuit board. A HUB, on the other hand, has similar input and outputs, but an ADDITIONAL "arm" that must plug into a power output from the PSU. This device gets all the power for its fans from the PSU and draws none from the mobo header, so the 1.0 A current limit (below) is avoided. It may look like any of those three types above, so appearance does NOT tell you what it is. The extra arm is the clue.

In using a Splitter, you are limited to the max current output of a header, normally 1.0 A. Unfortunately Phanteks' website for those fans does no specify the max current required by those fans for either the motor or the lights (for this part, we are concerned only about motor current). But in general such a fan consumes 0.10 to 0.25 A max each, so you can easily connect three to a single mobo header. Ideally, then, you could use two Splitters with three output arms each to create two groups - for example, all three front fan motors via one Splitter to one SYS_FAN header, and the other two fan motors similarly to a second header. Just configure each of those headers the same so they operate exactly alike.

An example of a three-output Splitter

https://www.amazon.com/Splitter-Computer-Extension-Converter-TeamProfitcom/dp/B07F8LV1BY/ref=sr_1_12?crid=32IPX5O5958AM&keywords=fan+splitter+4+pin&qid=1637166490&sprefix=fan+splitter,aps,186&sr=8-12

That is sold as a 2-pack, just what might suit you.

Any mobo fan header can deal with the speed signal sent back to it from ONE fan motor - more than one signal causes huge confusion and bad speed readings. So any Splitter or Hub will send back to its host header the speed signal from only ONE fan, and completely ignore the rest - they will never be "seen" anywhere. When you connect three fans with a Splitter to one header, that header will report the speed of one fan only. The way that is done is simple. Look closely at the photo of the three output connectors. Only ONE will have all four of its pins; the other two are missing Pin #3 so no speed signal can be passed through. So you must ensure than ONE of your fans is plugged into the only output with all 4 pins.

To configure the two SYS_FAN headers you use for these case fans, see the mobo manual p. 26. For EACH header, set
Fan Speed Control to Normal
Fan Control Use Temperature Input to Motherboard, not CPU
Fan Control Mode to PWM (for 4-pin fan motors)
Fan Stop to DISabled so the fans never stop
Temperature Warning Control to 70 C to start - you may need to change later. (This is just the temp that will pop up a warning on your screen if the mobo temperature goes too high)
Fan Fail Warning to ENabled so you'll get a screen warning if the fan speed drops too low (or fails completely). NOTE, however, that this fan failure warning is based solely on the fan speed signal the header is monitoring. BUT with the Splitter, some of the fans are NOT having their speeds monitored. So from time to time, YOU should look inside and verify that all fans still are working.

When you have made all your changes, use the Esc key to return to the main BIOS Setup menu, then F10 to get to the Exit Menu (p. 38). Select SAVE and EXIT Setup to save your settings and reboot.

 

[benny653]

Wooops! You are getting motors and lights mixed again.

The HUB unit built into the case I talked about is for the LIGHTS in those fans. I do expect that all of the fans' lights can be powered and connected to that Hub, although there is the matter of how to connect more than three fans with a lighting splitter suited to the connectors Phanteks uses

There's also this small detail: you proposed using six fans all together, but my later advice was NOT to mount one in the top front position, so you'd only be using five.

Now, just as there are similar terms used for fan motors and fan lights, there are SPLITTERS for each of those applications that are different. For the lights, you're already covered by the Hub. But you WILL need a couple of Splitters for the MOTORS to connect five to mobo headers. You have three SYS_FAN headers, but I suggest you'll use only two. Further, watch closely for the distinction between Splitters and Hubs for fan motors, because sellers often mix up the terms and mis-label them. A SPLITTER is a simple device that merely connects all its fans in parallel to the mobo header so they all receive the same signals and share the power supply from that header. It has one input "arm" with a female connector to plug into the host mobo header, and two or more output "arms" to plug in fans. It may look like a collection of cable "arms", a closed box with sockets in holes, or a small printed circuit board. A HUB, on the other hand, has similar input and outputs, but an ADDITIONAL "arm" that must plug into a power output from the PSU. This device gets all the power for its fans from the PSU and draws none from the mobo header, so the 1.0 A current limit (below) is avoided. It may look like any of those three types above, so appearance does NOT tell you what it is. The extra arm is the clue.

In using a Splitter, you are limited to the max current output of a header, normally 1.0 A. Unfortunately Phanteks' website for those fans does no specify the max current required by those fans for either the motor or the lights (for this part, we are concerned only about motor current). But in general such a fan consumes 0.10 to 0.25 A max each, so you can easily connect three to a single mobo header. Ideally, then, you could use two Splitters with three output arms each to create two groups - for example, all three front fan motors via one Splitter to one SYS_FAN header, and the other two fan motors similarly to a second header. Just configure each of those headers the same so they operate exactly alike.

An example of a three-output Splitter

https://www.amazon.com/Splitter-Computer-Extension-Converter-TeamProfitcom/dp/B07F8LV1BY/ref=sr_1_12?crid=32IPX5O5958AM&keywords=fan+splitter+4+pin&qid=1637166490&sprefix=fan+splitter,aps,186&sr=8-12

That is sold as a 2-pack, just what might suit you.

Any mobo fan header can deal with the speed signal sent back to it from ONE fan motor - more than one signal causes huge confusion and bad speed readings. So any Splitter or Hub will send back to its host header the speed signal from only ONE fan, and completely ignore the rest - they will never be "seen" anywhere. When you connect three fans with a Splitter to one header, that header will report the speed of one fan only. The way that is done is simple. Look closely at the photo of the three output connectors. Only ONE will have all four of its pins; the other two are missing Pin #3 so no speed signal can be passed through. So you must ensure than ONE of your fans is plugged into the only output with all 4 pins.

To configure the two SYS_FAN headers you use for these case fans, see the mobo manual p. 26. For EACH header, set
Fan Speed Control to Normal
Fan Control Use Temperature Input to Motherboard, not CPU
Fan Control Mode to PWM (for 4-pin fan motors)
Fan Stop to DISabled so the fans never stop
Temperature Warning Control to 70 C to start - you may need to change later. (This is just the temp that will pop up a warning on your screen if the mobo temperature goes too high)
Fan Fail Warning to ENabled so you'll get a screen warning if the fan speed drops too low (or fails completely). NOTE, however, that this fan failure warning is based solely on the fan speed signal the header is monitoring. BUT with the Splitter, some of the fans are NOT having their speeds monitored. So from time to time, YOU should look inside and verify that all fans still are working.

When you have made all your changes, use the Esc key to return to the main BIOS Setup menu, then F10 to get to the Exit Menu (p. 38). Select SAVE and EXIT Setup to save your settings and reboot.

Alright cool. thank you very much for taking out the time to reply, I really appreciate it!