Question High-end 870 or 890 for a unique system

[thegreatdelcamo]

Okay MB experts… Big Golf Simulator…

Talking about 890 or 870. With at least

1. 10 USB ports on rear, ideally 14 (I need at least 12, but can use internal connectors to add a 4-port extension.)
2. Two PCIe 5.0 slots that will run 8x8 (will run a 4080 Super on top, a 4070ti on bottom.)
3. Another PCIe 4.0 slot for a POE card running two high-speed swing cameras.

Ideally, the lower GPU will not crowd out the bottom PCIe 4 slot (I’m looking at you, ProArt 870?) But if it does, I need to find a way to mount everything.

I would go Intel 890, and the ROG Maximus z890 Apex looks really good, meeting all my criteria (the 4.0 slots being wisely placed above the 5.0 slots). My only concern: it is Intel, which brings two issues—one, the company is in serious trouble, and two, the new chips underwhelm. Still, I like the lower power, and arguably for GSPro, which is GPU driven, so maybe I don’t need a “gaming” monster…

Thoughts?

 

[littlepony]

890's would have an advantage over the other

 

[thegreatdelcamo]

890's would have an advantage over the other

Thanks for the comment. Would you be willing to provide your reasoning? Are you speaking in general or with respect to a specific MB?

 

[QyInvoLing]

Thanks for the comment. Would you be willing to provide your reasoning? Are you speaking in general or with respect to a specific MB?

Generally, z890 chipset provides more PCIe lanes, and ultra200s provides Lightning5 controller by itself, while AMD's x870=b650e+usb4(consuming 4x PCIe lanes), x870e=x670e+usb4(consuming 4x PCIe lanes).
Meanwhile, ultra200s cpus are not that powerful as ryzen9000.

 

[thegreatdelcamo]

Generally, z890 chipset provides more PCIe lanes, and ultra200s provides Lightning5 controller by itself, while AMD's x870=b650e+usb4(consuming 4x PCIe lanes), x870e=x670e+usb4(consuming 4x PCIe lanes).
Meanwhile, ultra200s cpus are not that powerful as ryzen9000.

Ah... That is relevant information. I just had Copilot make a chart for me. I'd written Intel I-9 chips off for a number of reasons, but importantly because they only had 16 5.0 lanes...

This would explain why I see so many more USB ports on the Intel boards. So, thanks for bringing this to my attention.

PCIe 5.0 Lanes (CPU) PCIe 4.0 Lanes (CPU) PCIe 4.0 Lanes (Chipset) Total PCIe Lanes

Intel Core Ultra Chip	24	0	20	44
Intel Core i9 Series	16	4	24	44
AMD Ryzen 9000 Series	24	0	12	36

Summary​

• Intel Core Ultra Chip: Offers a total of 44 PCIe lanes (24 PCIe 5.0 + 20 PCIe 4.0).
• Intel Core i9 Series: Also offers a total of 44 PCIe lanes but allocates them differently (16 PCIe 5.0 + 4 PCIe 4.0 from CPU + 24 PCIe 4.0 from chipset).
• AMD Ryzen 9000 Series: Offers 36 PCIe lanes (24 PCIe 5.0 from CPU + 12 PCIe 4.0 from chipset).

 

[QyInvoLing]

Ah... That is relevant information. I just had Copilot make a chart for me. I'd written Intel I-9 chips off for a number of reasons, but importantly because they only had 16 5.0 lanes...

This would explain why I see so many more USB ports on the Intel boards. So, thanks for bringing this to my attention.

PCIe 5.0 Lanes (CPU) PCIe 4.0 Lanes (CPU) PCIe 4.0 Lanes (Chipset) Total PCIe Lanes

Intel Core Ultra Chip	24	0	20	44
Intel Core i9 Series	16	4	24	44
AMD Ryzen 9000 Series	24	0	12	36

Summary​

• Intel Core Ultra Chip: Offers a total of 44 PCIe lanes (24 PCIe 5.0 + 20 PCIe 4.0).
• Intel Core i9 Series: Also offers a total of 44 PCIe lanes but allocates them differently (16 PCIe 5.0 + 4 PCIe 4.0 from CPU + 24 PCIe 4.0 from chipset).
• AMD Ryzen 9000 Series: Offers 36 PCIe lanes (24 PCIe 5.0 from CPU + 12 PCIe 4.0 from chipset).

Besides, most non-usb4/lightning5 usb ports are offered by chipsets.
Why do you need PCIe5.0x8 for 40-series graphics card? These cards doesn't support them, the only graphic card support PCIe 5.0 is Moorethread's MTT S80.

 

[QyInvoLing]

Maybe the Biostar x870e valkyrie is your best choice.

For your two graphics card and one POE card:
- It offers a PCIe5.0x16 divided into 2x PCIe5.0x8 in slot2 and slot5, which is capable for your 4080s&4070ti.
- Additionally, there's a PCIe4.0x16(actually 4.0x4, physically x16) on the slot7, which is capable for your POE card. If your 4070ti is a two-slot card, it's perfect for you.
Installing the POE card will disable the M2 slot above the bottom PCIex16 slot, remaining three M2 slots.

The only problem is that it only offers 8xUSBA+2xUSB4TypeC, maybe you can use a hub for extra usb ports.

 

[thegreatdelcamo]

Besides, most non-usb4/lightning5 usb ports are offered by chipsets.
Why do you need PCIe5.0x8 for 40-series graphics card? These cards doesn't support them, the only graphic card support PCIe 5.0 is Moorethread's MTT S80.

Well, since I wanted to use two GPUs to power my monitors, I figured that two 5.0 slots running at 8 would not be saturated by either my 4080 Super or the 4070Ti. That card is the MSI Ventus 3X Geforce.

 

[thegreatdelcamo]

Maybe the Biostar x870e valkyrie is your best choice.

For your two graphics card and one POE card:
- It offers a PCIe5.0x16 divided into 2x PCIe5.0x8 in slot2 and slot5, which is capable for your 4080s&4070ti.
- Additionally, there's a PCIe4.0x16(actually 4.0x4, physically x16) on the slot7, which is capable for your POE card. If your 4070ti is a two-slot card, it's perfect for you.
Installing the POE card will disable the M2 slot above the bottom PCIex16 slot, remaining three M2 slots.

The only problem is that it only offers 8xUSBA+2xUSB4TypeC, maybe you can use a hub for extra usb ports.

I'm not worried about losing an M2 slot, so long as I have the option to run one at 5.0 and one other at 4.0. But my card 4070Ti is triple slot.

What do you think of the ROG Maximus Z890 Apex? OR the 890 ProArt? On the Maximus, the GPU slots are below the 4.0 slots, which are not blocked. And it looks like the ProArt 4.0 slot is maybe 3 slots below the lower GPU...

I REALLY appreciate your help! Thank you!

 

[QyInvoLing]

Well, since I wanted to use two GPUs to power my monitors, I figured that two 5.0 slots running at 8 would not be saturated by either my 4080 Super or the 4070Ti. That card is the MSI Ventus 3X Geforce.

What do you mean of "power monitors"? The intergrated 2CU RNDA2 gpu of Ryzen 7000&9000 series could "power" a 3840x2160@120hz monitor for non-gaming tasks, so, I think PCIe4.0x8's bandwith will not be the bottleneck.

I'm not worried about losing an M2 slot, so long as I have the option to run one at 5.0 and one other at 4.0. But my card 4070Ti is triple slot.

What do you think of the ROG Maximus Z890 Apex? OR the 890 ProArt? On the Maximus, the GPU slots are below the 4.0 slots, which are not blocked. And it looks like the ProArt 4.0 slot is maybe 3 slots below the lower GPU...

I REALLY appreciate your help! Thank you!

No, these two cards will only work on 4.0x8 , not 5.0x8, as they don't support PCIe5.0.

ProArt z890 offers three PCIe slot, the first one shares x16 with the second one, it's fine, but the distance between the second slot and the third slot are only two slots, which means that you could't put your 3-slot 4070ti on the second slot.
Apex z890 doesn't have this problem, you can install your 4080s&4070ti into the two metal-enforced PCIe5.0 slot, then install your POE card into the remaining PCIex4 slot, but it has some other PCIe-distribution problem.
According to asus, " M.2_3 & M.2_4 share bandwidth with PCIEX16(G5)_2. When M.2_3 is enabled, PCIEX16(G5)_1 will run x8 & PCIEX16(G5)_2 will run x4. When M.2_3 & M.2_4 are enabled, PCIEX16(G5)_1 will run x8 & PCIEX16(G5)_2 will disabled.". You don't care about the M2 slots, but be careful, don't use M.2_3 and M.2_4 slots.
The true problem is, once you installed your three-slot 4070ti on the bottom metal-enforced slot, the plugs between the slot will be blocked by the thick card, and it's obvious that you may pick a case which allows the card to overflow the bottom of the motherboard, as the bottom slot is too near to the bottom of the motherboard.

 

[thegreatdelcamo]

What do you mean of "power monitors"? The intergrated 2CU RNDA2 gpu of Ryzen 7000&9000 series could "power" a 3840x2160@120hz monitor for non-gaming tasks, so, I think PCIe4.0x8's bandwith will not be the bottleneck.

I am referring to the GPU providing video data to the monitor. I realize the GPU is not providing electrical power to the monitor. It was a poor choice of words!

No, these two cards will only work on 4.0x8 , not 5.0x8, as they don't support PCIe5.0.

Each card will have half of the available bandwidth. Right?

ProArt z890 offers three PCIe slot, the first one shares x16 with the second one, it's fine, but the distance between the second slot and the third slot are only two slots, which means that you could't put your 3-slot 4070ti on the second slot.
Apex z890 doesn't have this problem, you can install your 4080s&4070ti into the two metal-enforced PCIe5.0 slot, then install your POE card into the remaining PCIex4 slot, but it has some other PCIe-distribution problem.
According to asus, " M.2_3 & M.2_4 share bandwidth with PCIEX16(G5)_2. When M.2_3 is enabled, PCIEX16(G5)_1 will run x8 & PCIEX16(G5)_2 will run x4. When M.2_3 & M.2_4 are enabled, PCIEX16(G5)_1 will run x8 & PCIEX16(G5)_2 will disabled.". You don't care about the M2 slots, but be careful, don't use M.2_3 and M.2_4 slots.

Right. I had studied that. Thanks for the note!

The true problem is, once you installed your three-slot 4070ti on the bottom metal-enforced slot, the plugs between the slot will be blocked by the thick card, and it's obvious that you may pick a case which allows the card to overflow the bottom of the motherboard, as the bottom slot is too near to the bottom of the motherboard.

Are you saying that a plug I may need will be covered by the 4070Ti card? Hmm... I'm not sure what to do. This is frustrating...

Might I be able to use a riser cable and install the 4070Ti in some other way?

 

[Eximo]

I think you are confused in general.

Why do you want two graphics cards exactly? Can you utilize two with some rendering or something? (If so, PCIe bandwidth really doesn't matter for such tasks, you are more storage constrained at that point)

The others are right, most motherboards no longer have the spacing for dual GPUs (since that concept is mostly obsolete), and 40 series cards are PCIe 4.0. 4.0 8x is plenty for most GPUs under all circumstances.

Also seeing a lot of references to Lightning ports. The term is Thunderbolt. Lightning is Apple's version of the same technology. Intel has Thunderbolt 4 capability, if you pay for it. AMD has put USB 4 on their X870 boards, and some X670 boards. This technically supports Thunderbolt 3 as well, though AMD can't actually say that.

Unless you already have the 4080 Super, now would be a good time to wait out for the 50 series launch. Pick up a 5080 or the 32GB 5090 if you want to maximize performance.

I understand you want to use a PoE network adapter from the host PC? Why not just get a PoE switch or router and get a motherboard that supports 10 or 5 Gbps depending on your needs?