High-End personal Workstation Guidance

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And, Folks ? ,

Sorry for the multi-post but, since we are looking forward to the NEXT build that will be fully worthy of Alvin's blessing ...

Let us not forget that the REAL "speed revolution" which is effecting ws thruput MOST is happenning right here ...

The OCZ RevoDrive 3 X2 Preview: Second-Gen SandForce Goes PCIe

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/revodrive-3-x2,2967.html

Solid-state tech marches on, and we're already approaching SATA's 6 Gb/s ceiling. OCZ is once again stepping in with a PCIe-based solution with speed in reserve. The company's RevoDrive 3 X2 promises sequential transfers in excess of 1 GB/s.

***************************

Yet another reason to wait for PCIe 3.0 and ALL THE LANES (and slots) YOU CAN GET !


So ... Alvin is waiting for a SOCKET 2011 with PCIe3.x and an SLI compatible chipset !

Slap a couple of GTX 560Ti GPUs in there and 24GB DDR3 ... A revo slot drive and hang 4x 24" 1920x1200 displays on there ... NOW we're talking !!

 


I saw one the other day at Memory Express, that one of the NVidia Crews was running at their floor display, some sort of
Duke Nukem tourney was going on - prize being one of their special game stations everyone was using, they even had
a geek game chick there who was really good, but the silverstone was the the one I was thinking of....

Silverstone RV02B-EW Raven 2 Evolution Black ATX Gaming Case 5X5.25 3X3.5INT 1X2.5INT

http://ncix.com/products/?sku=56972

OR:

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX31410(ME).aspx?cc=1 (not the same product number alas)

<Canadian stores both and local - had enough of international deliveries for awhile>


I think a good case is gonna stay a good case and the RV03 didn't get as good reviews as the upgrade box because
of trying to be everything to everyman. Only thing is that this is a different MB mounting. Dunno at this stage what
that means as an experience, good to go or wears real soon.

The issue is finding that more on the quiet side psu that fits that puppy - if ya checks the pictures you'll see.
And ya, bigger power according to GFX, cpu and memory that needs to be run. Balance the system for sure.
 



Hey, Taylor !

It seems that guy you linked me to is developing his own analytical financial model simulation code libraies and linking modules from some other standard libraries ... So ... He is defining economic models by actually writing a family of programs to model various elements and linking formulas and standard elements from existing code module libraries ... and he is running matrices of large data-sets, thru that sieve, under various conditions .... IF "this", THEN, "what?" ...
... In a nutshell, he (himself) is in the best position to understand the resources that he is drawing (leaning) upon and also, what his return on investment for his initial outly on a more powerful platform ...

I told him to explore TESLA and CLOUD solutions, if his tools have been ported to those realms (pretty sure they have) ... Virtual X86, at the very least.

He was running hours long data transforms on a Core2Quad system and, obviously, a Dual Xeon 12Core x 24GB system with butt-loads of CUDA power would trounce his old platform so ... it is really up to him, what sort of investment is justified, in his particular case.

Sounds like he has ~$12K to spend ... That he stands to make some real mony, by processing his huge vats of data, "much faster" ...
... HOW MUCH FASTER? ... AT WHAT COST? .... Strictly up to him and what he can justify. It would take a small CRAY to allow him to postulate, in real-time ... but how much does he stand to gain ? ... The CLOUD can give him as much power as he needs, on any given day, and he may be billed by the total ops performed, and only WHEN he chooses to do that, so it is totally granular and scalable ... *IF* his tools are ported and supported, there (adapted).

.... He can also go with a scalable "TESLA Desktop Supercomputer" and just add more power, when and as he feels the need, or can justify the outlay ...
... AGAIN ... *IF* his tools are living on that platform ...
... BUT ... WE KNOW that, if he was running his toolset on an old Core2Quad system ... Well, he can bump his power by, an order of magnitude (easily, and more) ), today, for ~$12K, by simply maxing out the current X86-64bit platform space, which would be a ~Dual Xeon with ~64GB and gobs of CUDA.
(And big-fast SSDs, etc.).

His call ... He's smarter than me and richer, too ... not your typical hapless noob so, all I can do is suggest CLOUD or TESLA or X86 and ask him to research his code libraries and think about how he is using them ... and, again, only he can balance his current budget with the potential return on investment so ... unless he wants me to be his errand-boy and goresearch the particular modules he is linking from various code libraries, ... I'm "done".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvnMI7uddmQ

 


Ya good advice, however my problem was a way too old high quality server case pressed into service cause it is sooo beautiful but designed for yesteryear.

I had no clearance over cpu1 so the sealed water cooled 620 H2O made sense to me in that tiny space where the copper, ten pound sink, blaster was howling and then the local Memory Express had the modestly rated ninja3 on the shelf so re-adjusted the sound levels in my work room to "thinking levels" again by putting together a water over air kludge where my cooling solution for the cpu's both sucks and blows as per your evaluation of the wasted money represented by my 'boat anchor' :ange:
 


I've been thinking and it doesn't really matter if you are not cherry picking your pictures and using just a random grab of any 71 RAWS and a quick lens, noise and sharpening process would be enough to see if more horsepower and less threads or more threads and less horsepower makes a difference or not.

People want to know before they lay down their cash.

We don't do the same things for sure but my software ie. Dx0. Poser and Bibble are 64bit multi-threaded apps. so we can get all those stats to show what you wanted to know about dual processors vs single chips.

This is a community service. Really. Alvin wants the best bang for the buck and has always said so. So do I and while I have expressed the mid life and end of life goals for this box which is currently my workstation that have little or nothing to do with remaining solely a workstation I did resonate with what you asked for in the beginning of the thread. Now you get to compare in real life without having gone down the original path you were on spending quite a few more dollars than you did.

Or, are you, having satisfied your curiosity about your apps not willing to satisfy mine where the apps have free one month trials to at least try rudimentary tests even as an example of due diligence for other people?
 



Alvin:

I'm a newbie to this thread, but I need to build a render monster in the next couple of weeks and I'd appreciate your input. The bane of my existence is a program called Modo from Luxology. (Think "Toy Story" from Pixar.) The output is amazingly real, better than actual photos when you get it setup right, but it's eating my wife's C2Q for lunch. She is an Interior Design/Architecture student and the semester end render cycle is taking about 4 days running 24/7. Other programs on the use list include Adobe CS5, AutoCad Architechture, Revit, and 3Ds Max.

Modo is heavily multi-threaded and maxes all the cores from the moment you press the render key. We've even messed with process priority in the Task Manager to give Modo all it can take, but even reasonable scenes can still take 4 hours or more. So, I'm thinking that I need to throw a "puff-plus" at it. I'm eyeing an X58 build using the newly introduced i7-980 as the CPU. I get a higher base clock speed than the i7-950 on the puff build and 2 more cores which puts 12 threads to work where I currently have 4.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116402

I'm also getting a Revodrive 3 240GB as the SSD boot drive. Amazon had it at $599.99 with no tax or shipping, so I already pulled the trigger on that part of the new build.
http://www.amazon.com/OCZ-Technology-Drive-240GB-Express/dp/B0058RECUE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312000909&sr=8-1

I haven't made a decision on the motherboard yet. I'm worried about going off the recommended list for the Revo 3 from OCZ.
http://www.ocztechnology.com/displaypage.php?name=revodrive_moboguide
I like the ASUS P6T6 WS Revolution. It's got 3-way SLI and an extra 16X PCIe slot running at 4x that looks like it can take the Revo 3, but no USB 3.0 and its not on the OCZ list.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131358

Memory will be picked from the QVL of the motherboard, so I can't point to anything there yet, but I think I may need to go to 24GB from the start. We have out of memory errors on occasion now and we're running 8GB, so going to 12GB may not be enough. (One piece of furniture she created had more than 5 MILLION polygons. And then it had to go into a building.)

Next semester will bring 10k sqft commercial projects, so 2GB is recommended on the GPU. I purchased an ATI FirePro V7800 for the C2Q; it helped a little on the modeling environment, but only shaved 10 seconds off a 15 minute render. I can move it over to the new build, but you seem to be pushing the nVidia boards. So, bowing to your wisdom, I was thinking of starting off with either 1 GTX 580 or 2 GTX 570s.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133395
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133370

Also, what's the diff' on Spinpoint F3 vs. F3R? The Egg's gottem at $59.99 and $74.99. Should I pay more? I was looking at putting 4 1TB Spinpoints together in RAID 10 as a 2TB drive for the data drive.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185&Tpk=spinpoint%20f3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152238&Tpk=spintpoint%20f3r

I've got 4 cases I'm considering. The HAF 932 & 942 made the list along with the Lian Li PC-A70F. I also saw the Azza Hurrican 2000 and thought it was a possibility.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811517010

Looking at different fans, I came across the ThermalTake Frio OCK. How do you think it compares to the Noctua or Hyper 212+?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106178

Now, as far as budget is concerned, I've accepted the fact that I'm probably over $2k for the base box without a monitor, but I'd like to keep it under $3k. (We have a perfectly good 24" Acer LCD and my wife doesn't like multi-monitor rigs.)

Wadda ya think? Am I headed in the right direction?

-cassdog
 
@cDog ...

LoL !!! I was right with you ... up until you mentionned your budget ... shoo-wee!
Try $5k (or ~$3800+++ with super deft selections and compromises) ...
Yeah ... What you are describing is a maxed-out single socket but you would be WAY better off with a dual socket rig, for THESE reqs ... Cores are KING !!!

But *YOU* ... *REALLY* ... need to find out JUST HOW MUCH the apps u are using will lean on the GPU cores ... ??? ... I am sort of "fully engaged" (elsewhere) , ATM, and (much as I'd like to) I really do not have the available time to chase down your core-compute-vs-GPU-compute balance fomula ... THAT is very KEY ... VERY.

But, yeah ... lots of cores and lots of DRAM and ... yup ... LOTS of money.

Considering that u r both pros? ... with major reqs? ... I'd go DUAL SOCKET.

BTW ... One other option is to build a cheaper BullDozer x6 Core, and just stick it in yer guest room and throw it a render-job and close the door and forget about it, for awhile ... Or build TWO Dozers ... Put the 2nd one in the basement ... Catch my drift?

I mean ... Just a ~fairly~ robust AMD build would cost WAY less and it would relieve the contention, for other (design-based) sessions ... Just a thot ... Hmmmm.
 


Ouch, ouch, OUCH.

Ok. I'm a pro (silly valley geek), but my wife is a student and we can't afford to spend 2 semesters of tuition on this thing. So, compromise will be the name of the game.

I actually started looking for a good AMD build when I began this search back in April, but the Intel hex cores beat the Phenom II x6 on the Tom's 3Ds benchmarks by about 25%. In the benchmarks, you can see a direct relation in core count to performance, but the improvements of higher clock speeds on a given processor architecture seem less influential. (As a wise man once said, "Cores are KING".) That's why I was leaning towards the i7-980. It should post near the top of the chart.
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/Image-Rendering-3DS-Max-2010,2420.html

From what I've seen, Modo is all about the CPU and we are not using VRay or any software that has been optimized for GPU calculations. However, Autodesk is now recommending CUDA cores for their rendering products. Here's what they say for 3Ds MAX 2012:
"The integrated iray® rendering technology from mental images runs well on CPU processing alone but can be accelerated by NVIDIA GPU CUDA technology."

Now, when you say "BullDozer x6" what processor are you referring to? Phenom II? Opteron? I thought the Bulldozer introduction was just about to start at the enterprise level and we wouldn't see any consumer products for months.

You do bring up an interesting possibility by placing multiple boxes to work. (... a computer in every room & a chicken in every pot.) We've been swapping jobs between the C2Q and an i5 laptop just so we had one "design" workstation available while the other one was rendering. I could price out a pair of Phenom x6 1100 builds and see where that compares to the flagship Intel build. My only issue with that will be software licences. (Autodesk is picky about their activation codes.)

Also, I had looked at going dual socket earlier since both Xeon and Opteron scale well, but as this thread has cautioned the EEC memory got to be very expensive and it did end up at $3000~$6000 depending on what I popped in the sockets. (Ah, the power of dual hexa-cores would certainly bring down the render times, but my wife would have to drop out of school to afford it and that defeats the whole purpose.) I think I found 1 motherboard that took regular DDR3 if you only took it to 16GB, but you had to use EEC to get to 32GB.

I shall put on my thinking cap, re-think the requirements, and compare the cost of these options to the checkbook balance before I make my next move.


Woof
 
OK, OK ... I am starting to "gel", with all your reqs and considerations ...

I really would not worry too much about the approved mobo and DRAM lists, BTW ...
... They (the apps developers) can't afford to test all the options ... so ...
I would feel confident that ANY Gigabyte or ASUS mobo (UD3 etc., and that cheaper ASUS mobo ... The name slips my mind) will work JUST FINE (any main X58 mobo and any generic DRAM).

Yes ... 12GB should provide plenty of oompah.

Drives: Get either Vertex 3s or the Crucials ... NOT a slot drive !!!
... Get a 90GB drive for Boot/sys/browser + general utilities and office apps.
... Get *TWO* 240 GB Crucial SSDs ... one for your wife and one for you ... critical apps+project libraries ...
... Also ... Get *two* 2TB spinners and configure as RAID-1

... Get two GTX560s.

Get a seasonic series X850W PSU (check the pwr calc ... 750 may do but ... headroom!)
This is a 'spensive psu ... VERY quiet, tho.

Cooler? ... Hmmm .. I'd say go with the Hyper 212+ (push+pull = 2nd 120mm fan).
... You may have to go with a more conservative OC but ... 3.8GHz is prolly sustainable.

Case ... Uh ... Any popular full tower, with a good rating ... not a mid-tower.

Sony or ASUS or SAMSUNG or even an LG DVDR (SATA).

At'll do 'er.


 
ASUS Sabertooth X58 LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
$194.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131665

Intel Core i7-970 Gulftown 3.2GHz 6 x 256KB L2 Cache 12MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80613I7970
$579.99

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL7T-12GBRH
$99.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231405

COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 "Heatpipe Direct Contact" Long Life Sleeve 120mm CPU Cooler Compatible Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7
$29.49
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065

COOLER MASTER R4-BMBS-20PK-R0 Blade Master 120mm Case Fan
$10.90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103069


** TWO OF THESE **
PNY VCGGTX560TXPB-OC-BDL GeForce GTX 560 Ti (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card with 10ft HDMI Mini to HDMI Cable
$229.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133384

** ONE OF THESE **
OCZ Agility 2 OCZSSD3-2AGT90G 3.5" 90GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
$159.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227604

** TWO OF THESE ** (one for your environment, one for hers) **
Crucial M4 CT256M4SSD2 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
$419.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148443

** TWO OF THESE ... CONFIGURED AS RAID-1 **
Western Digital Caviar Black WD2002FAEX 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
$149.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136792

ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Bulk 24X Black SATA - OEM
$20.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204


** FOUR OF THESE ** two should come with your mobo ... 6 needed *
OKGEAR 18" SATA 6 Gbps Cable, Straight to Right Angle W/Metal Latch, Black, Backward Compatible with 3 Gbps and 1.5 Gbps
$4.49
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812123158

SeaSonic X Series X-850 (SS-850KM Active PFC F3) 850W ATX12V v2.3 / EPS 12V v2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
$210.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151102

COOLER MASTER HAF 932 Advanced RC-932-KKN5-GP Black Steel ATX Full Tower Compucase Case with USB 3.0 and Black Interior
$139.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160


*****************************************************
GRAND TOTAL, AS SPEC'D

$3,065 + Shipping (there may be no shipping charges)

*****************************************************

That is my spec, considering ALL you have said ...

... Other mobos can add ~$50


If you feel you must trim the cost, here is where/how to do it ...
... Subtract/reduce/substitute, as indicated.
(all spinners should be 7200RPM Samsung/WD/Seagate)

... 1.5TB spinners ... subtract ~$100
... 1TB spinners ... Subtract ~$200
(7200 RPM on all spinner options !)
... KILL one of the 256GB SSDs and subtract ~$500
... CORSAIR 850W PSU ... Subtract ~$75
... Kill one of the GPUs and subtract ~ $230

This DRAM should work just fine but u can pay more, if you wish.
 


Well, well, well.

I run 8 cores, 16 threads but at 2.4GHz. - perhaps not allowing for OC via EVGA SR2 was short-sighted.
My 2GB 460GTX sees little use with my apps - I could have gone for the 1GB 560ti and saved a few bucks.
24GB of ECC DDR3 RAM cost $450ish. I now use half of that with 3 virtual linux machines and a 4GB RAM disk on top of Win7P.
As a bonus the MB takes it all as triple channel.
I think I missed out using the 15K SAS drive for boot instead of a nice SSD - time will tell.


****6 cores, 12 threads @ 3.4 - 4.0GHz sounds like a very good engine for your build.****

Your case should be roomy for the second card in SLI (but wait on that purchase until you can see a need).
I like that 850W PS.
SSD on the laptop as a sidegrade?
Go for the 24GB of RAM.

So since I am not rated as smart or savvy I went forum hopping for ya but mindsets and their biases
need confirmation of their base assumptions.


http://www.microfilmmaker.com/reviews/Issue63/Modo501.html
-As an added bonus, several render farms are now also offering services for modo users. That means if you develop a render that can overwhelm your system, it can be run very economically by an outside service. However, modo does have a very easy to set up render network that any user can deploy in a snap if they have some extra machines sitting around.

http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=56823

-we fully intend to use network rendering, however, these questions focus on a fast workstation for local rendering (especially for doing master-node only pre-calculations for divvying up jobs to slave-nodes).

and:
Modo is super sexy smooth on the new system, and the GTX 570 makes a world of difference!

and:
have the nVidia GTX 580 3GB by Palit, it works great and runs cool - highly recommend it. Painting isn't any smoother then my last card on a 4K image imgetting 15-25 FPS (it goes up and down). It's a software(OpenGL) problem not a hardware problem imo.

or:
If I were to build a machine tomorrow, I'd do a Sandybridge 2600k and overclock it, Nvidia GTX 570, 8-16gb ram and the whole system would be $1200-1500. For $2k you can put in the luxuries like a SSD, GTX580 and awesome case.

elsewhere:
-The general advice is to build your own, and base it on a single socket Sandy Bridge CPU, stick with Nvidia graphics cards and you should have an excellent system for about $1500

elsewhere:
-My main workstation is a 6core 980x, but that's a $1000cpu. For my render nodes I built two 2600k intel machines with
biostar tp67e boards. These systems are overclocked to 4.5 stable. I retired the dual xeon I mentioned and a q6600.

elsewhere:
Please read that linked thread. DO NOT get into making multiple CPU motherboards. Eight core CPU's are on the way, and you don't want to be stuck with hardware that's difficult and expensive to upgrade.

bonus:
Well, I am beginning training in Houdini Master. It seems like the perfect companion for Modo in that it does all of that physics simulation stuff that Modo does not. What I don't know yet is if I will be ultimately rendering in Modo or in Mantra - and Houdini/Mantra does run on Linux.


Buying workstations - banged for a buck or two:

http://www.boxxtech.com/products/3DBOXX/8520.asp?prodid=8520
Basic Configuration
Dual Xeon (2.4GHz) CPUs
4GB DDR3 1333
NVIDIA Quadro 400
250GB SATA Hard Drive
20X DVD RW
Microsoft Windows 7 PRO
Starting Around:
$3,380
US and Canada Only

So, I hope this helps your choice path gel.

 
fport has been thru it, and has some keen suggestions.

I do like the side-grade SSD, for the notebook ...

I think that JUST ONE 560Ti would be just fine ... not sure about a 2GB model availability, but, ... perhaps ? ... not likely ... But unless you really NEED the 2GB GDDR, 1GB should more than suffice (from my more general experience, as 2GB would be a very limiting req and I cannot imagine a developer would restrain you, thusly).

You really COULD go with a HAF 922 mid-tower, if one GPU is all you need but the full-tower *would* allow for more storage and graphics upgrade options.

I think you SHOULD go with the proc and (prolly) the mobo that I already spec'd, as the cardbus architecture is superior to 1155 variants.

I also agree (with fport) on the system DRAM ... heck ... at ~$100 per 12GB, you can't go wrong and all your dram will be perfectly matched and fully expanded, from the git-go ... BUT !!! ... don't throw a spaz-attack if 24GB of the DRAM that I spec's ends up not running (synched) at the FULL specified clock/CAS ... ok ? ... EVEN if you were to drop the timings all the way down to 1333c9 ?? ... You would never see the difference in actual use ... it would be like giving up 0.2GHz, on the CPU-Clock, at the VERY most ... I just want to set your expectations realistically, because SIX sticks ... even two matched sets ... frequently will not synch at rated clock/cas ... and ... "MORE DRAM will make your system much faster than FASTER DRAM " ... True ...
... Just do the 24GB NOW ... Get two of the 3x4GB kits that I spec's and ... THIS IS IMPORTANT ... ENTER THE RATED TIMINGS, MANUALLY, INTO THE BIOS FIELDS, AND **SAVE** THOSE VALUES UPON/BEFORE EXITING THE BIOS ...
... DO NOT (initially) JUST LET YOUR SYSTEM AUTOSENSE THE DRAM TIMINGS !!!
... The above procedure is your very best bet, to acheive the rated timings and ...
... ALSO IMPORTANT !! ... Putting SIX sticks in a config is something like putting two sprinklers, on a garden hose ... be careful, but, you will VERY LIKELY *NEED* to increase the DRAM voltage, by granular increments (smallest steps), to get SIX sticks to run stable, over LONG render sessions ... REMEMBER THIS (in case you experience stability issues ) ... THE DRAM IS THE FIRST SUSPECT/CULPRIT ... *NOT* the OC'd CPU ... and, don't get too greedy with the CPU OC ... I'd just shoot for 3.8GHz with Turbo-Boost disabled ... plenty snappy and more stable.

Rotza Ruck ... I would not have a socket 1155 mobo ... but, that's just me.

But, I *would* go for a socket 2011, *when* they have been "out and hammered", for about 90 days ... like ... late next March, tho.

I do recommend that you (and her) each get your own 256GB Crucial M4 SSDs, for your primary apps (suites) and project data.
 
Hi Alvin,

Well, first of all, sorry for my really bad english.
I work for the public sector in Brazil, and i'm in charge of the specification of 6 workstations.
They are for the computer graphics sector, that work for the government TV.
My max budget is US$14.000 per machine, althought i'm very disencouraged on getting to this top.

Well, until now i've got to this beauty:
-CPU: Xeon X5690
-Graphics: Quadro 5000
-Monitor: 2 NEC PA24IW-BK / DELL U2410
-SDI card: Blackmagic Decklink SDI
-RAM: 6 x 4GB DDR3 ECC 1333MHz
-SSD 256GB for system
-2 HDD 2TB SATA-600 7200 RPM 64Mb Cache in RAID1 for individual storage

Considerations:
-Is 2 CPUs worth in this case?
-If not, what mobo could frame it? I could only find double CPU 5520 mobos
-the main storage is being held by a central system (~200TB)
-Is cooling a major problem here?
-I can't do OC on the machines (gov. rules)
-They are supposed to last 5 years

Is this thing going to work, or i'm going all wrong?


Thanks! :)
Leonardo
 
Sorry, Leonardo, but there is not nearly enough information, provided, in your post, for me to even begin to assess your actual sw and hw requirements.

Clearly, when dealing with live productions and documentaries, on tight schedules, it would be best NOT to under-build ...
... That said ... Much more powerful platforms WILL be available, at "less" cost, long before 5 years have passed.

I do not have any idea which sw suites are intended, but I *do* understand that these systems will probably need to run ANY and ALL "world-class" commercial production (and post-production) suites and that the cardbus must support any number of multi-plex and I/O options, such as the DeckLink product, which you are currently considering.

If I were in your position ... with your budget ... I would seek an AVID Certufied HP workstation solution (which would, inherently) also be compatible with CS5+, as well as the broadest possible range of partner products (for AVID Composer and CS5+ and Blackmagic Design, etc.) ...

Go with an HP AVID Media Composer Certified Workstation or a DELL Avid Media Composer Certified Workstation (depending upon WHICH company provides the best "on-site" and telephone support, in your "region of Operations" ) ...

If you follow this (my) advice, your position will be secure and your employers will be able to continue operations, if you should die or "move-on".

This is (very clearly) *THE* way to go, in the case of Government Network Television Requirements.

This is really the only VALID option that a professional, in your position, has.

It would not be responsible (or wise) on your part, to do anything other than what I advise.

This option provides both compatibility (hardware AND software), as well as the highest level of technical support available (to whomever might need it, on deadline).

My parting advice is to INCLUDE the highest level of extended warranty and DIRECT support (prefered, on-site, CORPORATE) that you can possibly afford ... you will NEED IT !! ... ALOT !!!

Put yourself in the hands of HP/DELL Corporate customer support and also go for any professional telephone technical support options which may be available from AVID Technologies, ADOBE, and/or any primary software vendors which you employ.

Do yourself and your agency this favor ... Go for professional certification and support, "all the way".

= Alvin =

 
@ Leonardo ysbrasil,

Start here ... AVID Certification means that it will work with everything else, as well.

System Recommendations for Media Composer Feature Performance

http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=365919

=Alvin=



Start here ... AVID Certification means that it will work with everything else, as well.

System Recommendations for Media Composer Feature Performance

http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=365919

=Alvin=


 
@ Leonardo ysbrasil ...

OH YEAH !, and, ALSO ...

I could not tell how much of your budget is dedicated to hardware, versus software/applications, versus support services and extended warranties ... *SO* ...

My advice ??

~33% of your budget should be dedicated to hardware ...
~33% of your budget should be dedicated to sw (applications, utilities, plug-ins, etc.)
~33% (yes!) should be dedicated to extended warranty and various technical support.

You *WILL* need technical support for BOTH your hardware AND your major software suites. !!

 
@Alvin

Thanks for the shopping list. I got it down to $2600 then bumped it back up to $2800 on my first 2 sets of redlines. (YES to 24GB now!!!) And, I feel better about choosing stability over speed, so I'm with you on all advice in that area. We can't afford any lockups or BSODs.

I think the plan is to build with a single project drive for her. I'll inherit the C2Q for my own. (& gut it for an Octo-Dozer next summer...)

Would you still lay it out with 2 seperate SSDs?? (1 90GB boot/gen/office, 1 256GB critical apps & project) If so, why this config? Is there a performance improvement? I was trying to catch all of this on the 240GB slot drive, but you gave me a "NOT" on that idea.

Aside from the SSD config, the plan is startin' to gel. I'm hoping this thing will render in 1/6 the time of the C2Q and be a bit more snappy in the design sessions.

-cassdog



@fport
Good advice. I think SSDs for the laptops will make perfect stocking stuffers for Xmas this year.
Also, appreciate your POV on this.
 


Well,
You certainly could do it all with just one large SSD but, in practice, it IS nice to have two process cache pipelines ... lots less cache flushing, when (NOT) swapping between system calls and application calls ...
... It also (logistically) aids in "root-drags", for backups and makes it easier to wipe and refresh your apps environment ... also lets you re-install the system, or the apps, without any cross-contamination and *may* isolate certain "infections" and mitigate any failures or corruption issues ...
... Just a more dedicated and "granular" approach ... BUT ...
You sound even MORE cost-conscious than I originally surmised and the economy is just kinda suckin', these days ... so ... yer call.
In a somewhat less imperfect world ?? ... I would advise seperate, dedicated SSDs.
It will be SO much faster than yer old spinners, tho, that it would prolly be a few months before you would ever begin to even perceive any difference.
Mostly a conceptual issue ... not letting your peas touch your mashed potatoes. ... In the end? ... I guess one might say, "It all goes to the same place".
I have several 90GB SSDs, just for pipelining, maintenence, backup and management issues ... but I'm a bit of a parsnickety weirdo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvnMI7uddmQ

=Alvin=
 
Alvin,

First of all, thanks A LOT for the quick and precise response!

Considerations:
-I fully agree with you. The corporate support is a must-be. In a matter of fact, the actual workstations are Dell systems. Real antiques: Dell Precision 670 (!)
-Well, the problem is that the public bidding system in Brazil is pretty complex. That's why the actual workstation are so unbalanced. This is the third time we try to aqquire new ones. And probably we will only get our hands in the new ones in about 1 year from now. And that's why we work with the worst scenario: 5 years of use.
-Also, we can't choose HP or Dell, because the bidding MUST be opened to all firms that can fit in the specs.
-What i can (and will) do is specify the warranty and support that must be given. And there is were I 'separate the wheat from the chaff'.
-This process doesn't specify the softwares; the agency already have a whole soft. policy, with constant upgrades.
-Today, the cg group use the following softwares: 3dmax with vray, modo, zbrush, adobe package (notedly after effects and photoshop), and especific softs for broadcast maps and graphics (from Chyron). They don't edit videos and don't work with medias (xdcam). The SDI card is mainly output to a reference monitor.

Well.. That put, what is my problem today: I still need to specify the minimum requirements of the workstations, so the bidding don't go blind. To understand some of my personal tragedy, I can't even be part-specific! For example: instead of saying 'Nvidia Quadro 5000', i must say 'graphics card with 2gb gddr5 buffer, 320bit memory...' and so on. :pfff:

So far, I couldn't properly specify the MOBO. That's were I need some help:
1- For single Xeon, do I still need 5520 chipset? Actually, is it valid to use dual Xeon?
2- The cg group almost begged me for USB3. Didn't find this utility in most of worksation mobos
3- They need 2 ethernet gigabit. Is there a difference beetween built-in and separate card? The same question applies to RAID support.


Once again, thanks for all the patience and usefull information!
 


OK. I got into this thread to take your advice, and I will. 2 SSDs are now on the list.

Should I return the unopened slot drive and go with 2 plug-ins? or use it as the apps/project drive?

-cassdog
 


If you already have it, then use it ... my primary reason was that there is a price premium and that (size) SSD will not exceed/saturate the bandwidth of the SATA ports, anyway, which you have many of and which (prolly) are less finnacky, as a "system device" because, "they are what they are" (a drive).

You have a limited number of cardbus slots, on the other hand ... but since your config is not lkely to be crowded, any time soon ... just use the slot-drive ... it pipes on the Northbridge, rather than the South.

Slot drives make more sense, when you get into the higher capacities, as the RAID-0 scaling can take them well beyond SATA-III limits.

Don't worry about it ... use what you have.



 


Leonardo,

I have stuff I must go do ... *now*.

I will do my best to make some time to "get down to the nuts and bolts" of your hw reqs, this weekend (no promises or guarantees, sorry) ...

... As far as your OWN research goes, though ...

... I *STILL* recommend that YOU go to that first AVID SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS link, that I *1st* posted and look at the features vs. the recommended configs ...

Sounds like CGI is the main deal so the max streaming multicam requirements prolly will not apply ...

... BUT ... Look at those systems (based on your requirements) and match your reqs to that hardware matrix ... then ... if you need to, make a "pre-sales" technical call, to HP & DELL and ask them about the chipsets, etc.

Yes, you *DO* want two network ports *ON* the mobo ... leaving PCIe slots open for more critical devices ... hmmm ?

You certainly should go with 2x6core (12-thread system ... MINimum!)
You should go for 3.2GHz (or more) if you possibly can ...

12GB of ECC DRAM is a minimum ... any timings ... 1333 is fine.

I would strongly recommend at least one SSD of no less than 120GB

Also ... Two 1.5TB drives in RAID-1 configuration ... mobo RAID is fine.

Gotta go ... I'll do my best to get back to you with grittier details.