High-End personal Workstation Guidance

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Thanks Alvin,
I'll stick to some main stream brand and give it a go. Probably G.Skill.
Jim
 
JIMBO,
A tip ...
DO NOT rely upon the system to auto-sense the ram-kit timings ! ... MANUALLY enter the published/rated timings (from your ram packaging/docs/data-sheet) DIRECTLY into the system bios ram timing fields and *SAVE* upon exit ...
... Go back in, after restart, to verify that they "stuck" ... And, if the system tends to hang, at the rated timings, then do increase the ram voltages by the smallest increments that the bios will allow, until stability is acheived, or until you get to 1.6V . It is not a disaster (as I said) if the ram runs below rated spec ... generic kits often do drop down a step or more. Just verify that it is runnong in dual ch mode and you can search google on "prime95" and run that, for a few days, if you want to burn-test for stability.
As much flack as I give the Gamers ... Our Tom's OC forum is the best place to get advice, on OC and ram voltage/timings, etc ... Just slurp and grovel, a bit ...
... You can also check the ram and mobo owner reviews, on the newegg product pages, as many folks post their system specs and other parms.

Please read these links, before you build, and keep them handy WHILE you build. They WORK !

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/261145-31-perform-steps-posting-boot-video-problems

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/274745-31-step-step-guide-building


******************************************


page 12 .... Weeeee !

I don't think YouTube has a link, for THIS occasion ... I could post a balloon drop or a ticker-tape parade but, looks like Puff and Illy finally bailed ...

... In this case, I am hoping their absense means that they are way happy and that their new rigs are cranking along, with aplomb.

Welcome to page 12 of Puff's WS thread.

 
Thanks Alvin. I have those bookmarked as well as this thread now. Most of the components now ordered other than the ssd and graphics card. With stability in mind even more than speed, I'm sort of holding on as long as I can waiting for availability of the Vertex 3's and in the field test reports.... I'm just a bit wary of being on the bleeding edge with these things! I do have an old raptor drive I could put in here for a few weeks if I had to.

Thanks to the op and all who contributed to this thread..... especially of course you Alvin.
I think there are more than a few that learned a lot here.... I know I did.... well, just enough to get into trouble!
 
Well, if we saved you some money and helped you to obtain a snappy and RELIABLE system, that is all the thanks the techs, on this fine forum, can ever hope for ... good enough!

I would just go for an OCZ Agility, 90GB, *NOW*, rather than to trust all my environmental tweaking, to an old spinner ... that was my point ... do it once ... do it right ... be done with.

Best of luck ! ... Read that TS doc, and you won't need quite as much (luck).

This little "chick" got into a few of my mechanical hard drives and "had her way".
... SSD boot drives, from now on, for me !!! Don't let her get close to your edit!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxidefcsjDc

Think of an SSD as a sort of "Four Leaf Clover" ... Do not overrlook the integrity of your operating environment, or I'll have to slap you upside the haid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1n5tShQpGM



 
:) :) :) I don't know how you find all this stuff Alvin!

Geez, I just put in my orders with the egg yesterday with nothing expedited and every thing came today. (other than the Haf 932 that I ordered elsewhere for $25 less) Now I have to get on those last two items this weekend so I can get started. I was thinking about it and agree that going directly to the ssd now is best and not have to do it again in a couple weeks. I suspect most decent quality ssd's will perform fairly similarly for everyday use assuming all goes well so holding out for the Vertex 3 might not be worth the wait. Heck, if they prove to be superior in everyday use, I'll get one and the one I get now will live happily in another of my computers.
 
The agility series, or any of the Corsairs ... The Crucial 300s are all "just fine" for your operating/browsing sw and your "critical apps" ... Any will be at least twice as fast (loads) as a spinner and will be (something like) TEN times as reliable ...
... SSDs fail very gradually, and very predictably, with progressive "map-out" of corrupt sectors until, at about 5 years ... when the frequency of errors becomes "significant", the drive will stop allowing write operations, bur reads will be possible (backups/xfers) for many months after (as reported in several reviews and interviews).
There was some "early bricking", in the egg-owners reviews, when the first gen SSDs were "young", but I have seen WAY less of that, with the 2nd gen drives.

I'll be really glad when mechanical drives are a distant memory !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fs71P3J2AA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQYPCPB1g3o&feature=related



 
I've been using a Q6600 with 8GB for awhile now and could see the writing on the wall when I started to use
DX0 and Bibble for more than one off's. I also use Poser8 which could possibly benefit from an upgrade soon.
I read everything everywhere - including here - and made a decision to build a 'real' workstation that was
balanced, in terms of across the board capability and power as well as set to upgrade in either ram, storage,
graphics or cpu as necessary to get some future proofing. I also looked to end of life for re-purposing as a server.

The biggest debate was EVGA SR2 vs SUPERMICRO - you can see who won.

SUPERMICRO X8DTH-6F Intel 5520 Tylersburg BULK MB $ 550

Intel E5620 2.4GHz Quad Xeon 12MB 5.86GT/s SLBV4 (X2) $ 660

24GB (6X4GB) DDR3 MEMORY RAM PC3-10600 ECC REG DIMM $ 426

300GB Cheetah 15K.7 SAS 6Gb/s 15K RPM 16MB 3.5 inch $ 211

EVGA 02G-P3-1386-KR GeForce GTX 460 Video Card - 2GB $ 245

Ultra X3 ULT40312 850-Watt Power Supply $ 183

Miscellaneous (fans, cables, drive frame 5.25-3.5) $ 110

Shipping and Import Duty charges $ 230

______
----------
$ 2615




On hand, new server box still in box - high end but 8 years old, DVD writer, hot swap SATA bay, 2.5T of unused SATA drives,
2T re-purposed HDD's.

There's the build, being burned in as I write, OS installed Win7 Pro (16GB ram limit removed).


I'm moving from a 2.4GHz Q6600 (4 threads) and 8GB DDR2 with a 9250 1GB AGP to a Dual 2.4 GHz XEON (16 threads) 24GB DDR3 and
a GeForce 460GTX 2GB as my first step up in three years, I used to run two Q6600 boxes with 4GB each but switched to a dual 21.5"
monitor setup consolidating my RAM and drives using the recovered value of the second box for the second HP monitor.

In the future, doubling RAM, replacing the CPU's with hex's or SLI'ing the 460 are easily handled one at a time or all at once according
to perceived bottlenecks in actual use. The quad core minus its drives will bring $ 350 which will be held against a decision based on
performance as to immediate SSD, SLI or RAM needs. Hopefully this build will hold up well until hex cores and RAM decrease in price
to approximately half what they are now.

This also means I am tapped out vis a vis my technology fund but what's the use of saving up if you never spend it.
 
I would just LOVE to know how the system that you just spec'd would compare
(Price vs. Performance)
.... Using a FULL gammut of pro graphics and science sw benches ...
... To: A fully tricked Sandy-Bridge with an enthusiast mb, DDR3, SSDs, and 560Ti.
Hmmmmm ....
THAT would be pretty cool (good to know!).
... I'm just gonna bet the Sandy would kick-butt and for way less money, all else "=".
 
without overclocking my cpu (i7-950) I'm ready to do some testing. I don't know where to start... we should create a list of 'pro graphics + science sw benches' here to start a list.
 


ya, most likely, but right at this moment in time with my current situation, with one eye towards the
future and the consideration of leftover end of life value with the bonus of quality parts coming
down in price 3 - 5 years out for this hardware, I went all in. there won't be any buyer's remorse.

this machine is a learning and up-skilling box and will be running threaded software which
unfortunately is limited by me and not the hardware for the next while so benchmarks would
mean little in this footrace. it is more about flow.
 


Well,
If it's "just" for learning and "up-skilling" ...
... I mean, not to dis your rig, as you already spent all that money ... But ... for the sake of any hapless noobs who might think that your "REAL" workstation spec will (somehow) be able to compete (dollars or speed) EITHER with a new Sandy bridge enthusiast rig ... *OR* ... With Puff's (most adequate) X58/i950 rig ...

... I must throw down the gauntlet ... Who knows? ... You might even win ~some?~ benches ?

Really, tho ... I have not done any such benches ... I'll just bet YOUR ~$2600 rig would end up eating Puff's dust (i.e. "get smoked by") ... even at standard clock ... which is MUCH slower than even a conservative OC ... not even to mention a 5GHz Sandy with SSD Caching.

I'm sure you will do just fine with your REAL workstation ... but ... don't go trying to lead any poor suckers (impoverished grads) down THAT path ... if you have any conscience.

I could be wrong, tho ... PROVE IT !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_8VwZ2oTlw


 
 
Granted ...
... 16 cores and 24GB DRAM is nothing to spit at ... at any clock.

I'm still trying to figger out what that would really mean (cost vs. performance) if (really and truly) "all else were to be equal" (everything not on the mobo).

Difficult to make an apples-to-apples comparison, without identical peripherals and calculating TOTAL SYSTEM (caps) COST(for emphasis).

To be fair ... (to all) ... I just want to know what the cost diff is, for the three compute cores, which we discussed, and what YOU really get for any extra monies spent, in real-world terms. I am saying ... "I'm not certain". My gut tells me it ain't worth it (ECC, etc.) unless the system is being used more than 10 hours per day, for building bridges or other apps which might entail public safety and legal liability (in case of a memory glitch?).

I already stated (early on, in this thread) that the type of system which you built *IS* appropriate for companies which are employing Engineers, etc., on a full annual salary and a full professional work-load. As stated, ... As a percent of actuarial/ammortized costs, for pro-salaries and industrial liabilities, there is most certinly a case to be made for THE BIG IRON.
Due to "Happy Gamers" (blessem), the enthusiast builds seem to be able to keep up with Big Iron, at a lower cost, these days and, that "traditional price-performance gap" seems to be narrowing, more, with each platform iteration.

I sure do miss The Eighties ... All but the computers and sw, that is.

=cheers=
 



Uhm, well with all the marketing hype and talkover lets stick with 5620x2 = 8 cores
which is 16 threads, right. To talk about virtual cores is so much smoke and mirrors.
I misspoke or in this case...mistyped.
 

 
From what I can see, you bought "peace of mind", mostly.

My gut is working just fine ... Balance *IS* everything. Try putting six sprinklers, on one garden hose, or six hoses on one sprinkler ...
... You can brag all you want ... NO-body is listenning.

I'm done trying to reason with you ... Hype trumps reason, apparently.

My advice to the community? ... Read this thread, from the first page.

My advice to fport? ... Go play with that boat-anchor (and "rest in peace").

:hello:
[:jaydeejohn:3] [:jaydeejohn:3] [:jaydeejohn:3]
[:bilbat:3]

 
 


Hey Alvin, Just wanted to follow up with how I made out. Well, ended up getting one of the Vertex 3 240GB drives for all my programs. I can also use it for my Lightroom Catalog and have virtually instant 100% previews of my Mark IV tiff files that way. The one problem I had was the P8p67 WS Revolution came with a bad bios. Asus phone help was great but they agreed it was n/g. So, now being in a bit more of a hurry and the dining room table now 100% taken up with parts and boxes etc, I picked up a P8P67 Deluxe MB for the time being. I at this time plan no raids or dual video cards so am fine for now. With 16GB ram and the GeForce 560 TI card, my system flies compared to anything I'm used to and didn't break the bank. Also took your advice and went with a top line PS and the new Coolermaster 932 case which should last me through a few upgrades. Running Adobe Premiere Pro is so much faster than with my i7920 I built almost 3 years ago. Haven't even taken the time yet to OC the 2600K yet but plan to as time permits.

So, thanks for all the info here and while I didn't get everything top of the line, it's a huge improvement for me and I'm very happy for now. Only problem is I still have to use that 920 for about half my work so I can see another upgrade in the not too distant future! :)
 
[alvin]: ... I must throw down the gauntlet ... Who knows? ... You might even win ~some?~ benches ?

[fport]: ...You would like me to leave "your" town sheriff? No reports back about what I still need to do or how things are working? Wouldn't you like some benches to prove your points? You could keep beating them and still be right all the time or is that just how things work for you?

no no nooooooooo don't leave town. It's a tough town but stick around cowboy. Let's put our big guns to a showdown!
I call for a benchoff!!! :bounce: I'm oc'ing my comp and soon to have it stable around 4.0-4.4ghz but for the sake of fair play I'll bring it back to it's 3.07ghz standard. Heck i'll do both. Let's get the list of professional benches here and start the benching. It's a rare sport when the bench is desired. So where to start? fport? Alvin? Jimz, you want in?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-a7KPmOnok&feature=related

vray benchmark: http://www.jigsaw3d.com/articles/v-ray-rt-gpu-benchmark-test
Cinebench: ?
passmark: http://www.passmark.com/products/pt_adv3d.htm
3dmark11: 🙁 costs money
3dmarkVantage: free!!!
cpu math mark: ?

so this is a list i found of all these benches... but i have no clue which ones are best for our benchoff. check em out... and add to the list i started please:
http://majorgeeks.com/downloads4.html

let's make this official!
 



Okay, I don't mind being a loser here at all, I know what I bought and why and if history is to be my witness some
3 to 5 years out this will do what I thought, be a sad comment on my nascent scrying abilities or be so bypassed by
new developments as to be fodder for the lookieloos of the future mining for nuggets of humour.

I chose PCMark7 from your suggested majorgeeks site as something everyone can do, because a lot of people have
really ordinary machines that are good enough and need a perspective on why to custom build, no that's wrong, you
should most always build your own for quality and performance peace of mind, why then to choose an enhancement
path away from the middle of the road for whatever purpose the machine will be turned to.

What I am saying is that we should start off with some nice general system evaluations and from there move down
to the obscure bragging rights capabilities :) So without further ado:

Version: 1.0.4.0
29/05/11 17:33:03
Id: 63671
Score:
2557 PCMarks
Share:
Add to compare
Name

Description

Processor
Processor
Intel Xeon E
Processor clock2667 MHz
Physical / logical processors2 / 16
# of cores4
Graphics Card
Graphics Card
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
# of cards1
SLI / CrossFire Off
Memory2048 MB
Core clock700 MHz
Memory clock1800 MHz
Driver nameNVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
Driver version8.17.12.7061
Driver status FM Approved
General
Operating system64-bit Windows 7 (6.1.7600)
MotherboardSupermicro X8DTH
Memory24568 MB
Module 1
4096 MB Micron Technology 9 @ 667 MHz
Module 2
4096 MB Micron Technology 9 @ 667 MHz
Module 3
4096 MB Micron Technology 9 @ 667 MHz
Hard drive model300GB SEAGATE ST3300655SS SCSI Disk Device
Detailed scores
PCMark score2557
Video playback and transcoding / Video playback
23.09 fps
Video playback iteration 1
23.03 fps
Video playback iteration 2
23.11 fps
Video playback iteration 3
23.12 fps
Video playback and transcoding / Video transcoding - downscaling
4174.76 kB/s
Video transcoding - downscaling iteration 1
4149.63 kB/s
Video transcoding - downscaling iteration 2
4235.21 kB/s
Video transcoding - downscaling iteration 3
4139.45 kB/s
System storage - gaming / System storage - gaming
5.2 MB/s
System storage - gaming iteration 1
5.22 MB/s
System storage - gaming iteration 2
5.18 MB/s
System storage - gaming iteration 3
5.2 MB/s
Graphics - DirectX 9 / Graphics - DirectX 9
50.79 fps
Graphics - DirectX 9 iteration 1
50.48 fps
Graphics - DirectX 9 iteration 2
51.13 fps
Graphics - DirectX 9 iteration 3
50.75 fps
Image manipulation / Image manipulation
7.1 Mpx/s
Image manipulation iteration 1
6.89 Mpx/s
Image manipulation iteration 2
6.97 Mpx/s
Image manipulation iteration 3
7.43 Mpx/s
System storage - importing pictures / System storage - importing pictures
8.83 MB/s
System storage - importing pictures iteration 1
8.72 MB/s
System storage - importing pictures iteration 2
8.72 MB/s
System storage - importing pictures iteration 3
9.07 MB/s
Web browsing and decrypting / Web browsing
8.56 pages/s
Web browsing iteration 1
8.44 pages/s
Web browsing iteration 2
8.37 pages/s
Web browsing iteration 3
8.85 pages/s
Web browsing and decrypting / Data decrypting
52.9 MB/s
Data decrypting iteration 1
53.93 MB/s
Data decrypting iteration 2
52.79 MB/s
Data decrypting iteration 3
52.0 MB/s
System storage - Windows Defender / System storage - Windows Defender
2.03 MB/s
System storage - Windows Defender iteration 1
2.02 MB/s
System storage - Windows Defender iteration 2
2.0 MB/s
System storage - Windows Defender iteration 3
2.05 MB/s
Settings
Default settings used Yes
 
jfklimek


So, the next general one that I found for benching has a free trial period. it's not exactly the best situation but using it once each seems
to be fair trade as they get some benchmarks on systems they might not ordinarily see:

http://www.passmark.com/download/pt_download.htm


PassMark(TM) PerformanceTest 7.0 Evaluation Version (http://www.passmark.com)
Results generated on: Sunday, May 29, 2011


Benchmark Results

Test Name: This Computer
CPU - Integer Math: 3660.1
CPU - Floating Point Math: 4363.5
CPU - Find Prime Numbers: 1326.7
CPU - SSE: 32.0
CPU - Compression: 12905.5
CPU - Encryption: 40.8
CPU - Physics: 670.4
CPU - String Sorting: 7907.1
Graphics 2D - Solid Vectors: 0.8
Graphics 2D - Transparent Vectors: 0.8
Graphics 2D - Complex Vectors: 74.5
Graphics 2D - Fonts and Text: 100.7
Graphics 2D - Windows Interface: 55.1
Graphics 2D - Image Filters: 204.5
Graphics 2D - Image Rendering: 317.9
Graphics 3D - Simple: 2318.8
Graphics 3D - Medium: 1123.0
Graphics 3D - Complex: 42.9
Graphics 3D - DirectX 10: 33.4
Memory - Allocate Small Block: 1770.4
Memory - Read Cached: 1752.9
Memory - Read Uncached: 1839.1
Memory - Write: 1812.7
Memory - Large RAM: 7752.1
Disk - Sequential Read: 123.0
Disk - Sequential Write: 117.1
Disk - Random Seek + RW: 13.8
CD - Read: 2.6
CPU Mark: 10272.4
2D Graphics Mark: 207.4
Memory Mark: 2432.9
Disk Mark: 918.2
CD Mark: 316.1
3D Graphics Mark: 2069.8
PassMark Rating: 1770.6

System information: This Computer
CPU Manufacturer: GenuineIntel
Number of CPU: 2
Cores per CPU: 4
CPU Type: Intel Xeon E5620 @ 2.40GHz
CPU1 Speed: 2400.3 MHz
CPU2 Speed:
Cache size: 256KB
O/S: Windows 7 (64-bit)
Total RAM: 24567.1 MB.
Available RAM: 20714.0 MB.
Video settings: 1920x1080x32
Video driver:
DESCRIPTION: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460
MANUFACTURER: NVIDIA
BIOS: Version 70.4.2e.0.80
DATE: 4-7-2011
Drive Letter: C
Total Disk Space: 279.3 GBytes
Cluster Size: 4.0 KBytes
File system: NTFS

Does anyone see anything missing that some other test for a general summary would cover?

If everyone agrees on these tests for starters then we can move into some more specialized
benches to get at some nits and grits.
 
cool fport... it's on!!!

i'm clueless about these benches but as an overview, with the little that i know, this sounds on the money. I'll get on with my stock benches tomorrow and possibly some overclocked as well!!!
 
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