High-End personal Workstation Guidance

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you give a man a fish he eats for one day... you teach him how to fish he'll eat for a lifetime. Alvin, your teaching us how to fish, and i'm planning on being independent of this preliminary necessity later down the line... precisely why i ask for your reasons versus just answers. I don't want the halibut, i want to learn how to catch it myself. I'm feeling pretty good about casting that line now-a-days too. I just bought the Lian Li A77f on supersale for about $220. I know what i want, now just to wait for the fish to surface so i don't waste too much bait to catch em. Thanks man.
 


Cultured stone isn't acceptable, period. What has happened in the built world is massive implementation of face lifting. This is a real problem. I despise 'facadists'. It's everywhere. I've lived in NY, NC, and Chicago. The least amount of 'facadism' is seen in Chicago, in the city, however, the same amount of fakeness can be found all throughout the suburbs out here. Its a real shame. I think what is going on is the sad sad SAD prioritizing of production and efficiency over quality and concern happening in our society. In the built world it is seen in cheaper quicker construction not carefully conceived and shallowly erected. I've worked for the factory type firm that pumps these types of houses by the hundreds every week, as well as the slower smaller firms that take it slow and steady. I'm a real fan of the slow and steady and there is far from a surplus of architectural jobs that say this isn't feasible... but the quick and cheap, as long as it 'appears' to be of the same type as the 'quality' is preffered. Makes me wanna cry. I mean who really needs a solid, structurally legit, construction system that has proven the test of time to support their protective investment against the elements and a place of security for their family? Haven't we learned anything from the three little piggies?
 

less the Tonya Harding types... no place for a Nancy Kerrigan you know.
 


I hope you end up working where you can stick to your convictions. Me, I always wanted my daughter to design the world's tallest building. Everybody said "yea, right". Guess what? She got a job at SOM her 4th year. But, I don't think she shares the old man's dream. Oh well.
 

First off, that's a supreme accomplishment... you have a talented daughter. Secondly, we are already building too tall... quality not quantity is the moral we should live by. This goes for all our projects affect, not just them as their objectified selfs.
 


Ah, you have judged correctly, grasshopper. Always remember: "Very few buildings are better than no building at all."
 


Did I mention that I grew up working at an architectural firm?

My uncle and his partner owned it and my dad became general manager, when I was 16 (ok, so I wasn't BORN under a drafting table).

"WE" (And I DO mean WE) built dozens of underground and earth-sheltered schools, hospitals, and other gummit bldgs.
My other uncle owned and ran a company called Energy Management Systems ... He integrated computerized ducted HVAC and our buildings frequently featured solar EV, solar hot water, and various solar tubes and light-shafts that looked like an atrium/shaft with arrays of polygonal mirrors that bounced light into every office and classroom, from a central hub.

I am also into Co-Housing developments, as well (central facilities, like wood-shops and common pedestrian recreational zones, for each neghborhood).

My favorite architectural philosophy is that of a designer named:

PAOLO SOLERI

*** PLEASE TAKE JUST ONE MINUTE TO GOOGLE >>> IMAGES <<<
(of "paolo soleri" ... It is easier than having me post links of different images.)

http://www.arcosanti.org/theory/arcology/main.html

http://www.arcosanti.org/project/background/soleri/main.html

http://architect.architecture.sk/paolo-soleri-architect/paolo-soleri-architect.php

other books about Paolo Soleri
Paolo Soleri: The Omega Seed: An Eschatological Hypothesis
The Bridge between Matter & Spirit Is Matter Becoming Spirit: The Arcology of Paolo Soleri
Paolo Soleri: Arcosanti: An Urban Laboratory?
Paolo Soleri's Earth casting: For sculpture, models, and construction
Paolo Soleri: The Omega Seed
Paolo Soleri: Arcology: The City in the Image of Man
Documenta; the Paolo Soleri retrospective
Paolo Soleri: Technology and Cosmogenesis
Paolo Soleri: Life Time Furniture Cloister Styles
Fragments: A selection from the sketchbooks of Paolo Soleri : the tiger paradigm-paradox
The Sketchbooks of Paolo Soleri
Paolo Solieri, the 21st century: Envisioned cities
Fragments: A selection from the notebooks of Paolo Soleri : the tiger paradigm-paradox
Paolo Soleri: Arcology and the future of man
Selected bibliography of materials published by Paolo Soleri
Paoli Soleri, a bibliography (Architecture series : Bibliography)
Paolo Soleri: Illustrated chronology
Asteromo: Soleri
The development by Paolo Soleri of the design for the Cosanti Foundation, Arizona, U.S.A (North Carolina State University. School of Design. Student publication) (North Carolina State University. School of Design. Student publication)
Paolo Soleri: Cosanti Foundation
Paolo Soleri: a bibliography


 
And, just to keep the mods happy ... (i.e. To stay on the topic of Personal Computers).

Do you guys remember that guy Taylor422 who crashed into this thread to ask about an extreme gaming build? ... well ... Here is the first (and, I hope, the last) PRIVATE build as the result of our private discussion thread ... The reason that I bring it up, on this thread, is that HIS build looks a whole lot (functionally) like Illy's daughter's rig ...
... I would beef-up the storage speed and capacity, for video editors. though. AND, DOUBLE THE DRAM CAPACITY FOR ANY GRAPHICS BUILD.
********************************************************

`
I am going to recommend that you * S T R E T C H * , for ONE GTX-580, NOW.
These monitors are 1920x1080 ... going up to 1920x1200 is cost prohibitive.
You may wish to go with a single, 32" 1080P/120MHz LCD HDTV (TARGET had a nice Phillips)


. . . C H E C K - I T - O U T , >> NOW ! ! << !


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBClImpnfAg

*****************************************************************

ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
$284.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131614

Intel Core i7-950 Bloomfield 3.06GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor BX80601950
$294.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115211

>>> This Cooler COMES WITH GOOD THERMAL PASTE & ALL PARTS TO MOUNT 2nd FAN (for "Push-Pull" ).

COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 "Heatpipe Direct Contact" Long Life Sleeve 120mm CPU Cooler Compatible Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7
$29.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065


*** YOU NEED THIS EXACT (Matched RPM/CFM) FAN, FOR PUSH-PULL COOLING !!

COOLER MASTER R4-BMBS-20PK-R0 Blade Master 120mm Case Fan
$11.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103069

>>> COMBO DEAL <<<

850 WATT CORSAIR PSU > PLUS > 3x2GB (=6GB) CORSAIR DDR3 RAM 1600c8
Combined Total = Combo Price: $189.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.579885

STRETCH FOR THE GTX 580 (NOW ! ) :

EVGA 015-P3-1580-AR GeForce GTX 580 (Fermi) 1536MB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
$509.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130587


PLUS >>>TWO<<< of these Monitors (Come with cables).

ASUS VH236H Black 23" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen Full HD 1080P LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 20000 :1 (ASCR) Built-in Speakers
@ TWO X $179.99 (each) = $359.98 Total (for both)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236059


*** SSD (For Boot/Utils/Browser/Apps ... 80GB will be plenty ... load games on HDD).
... ( I did not include a 2.5" to 3.5" mount adapter ... you can velcro/tape to cage).


OCZ Vertex 2 OCZSSD2-2VTX80G 2.5" 80GB SATA II MLC Internal SSD
$169.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227685

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
$69.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185

ASUS Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM
$19.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204


YOUR MOBO COMES WITH TWO SATA CABLES BUT YOU HAVE THREE DRIVES SO ...
... YOU NEED >> THIS << CABLE (TOO) :


OKGEAR 18" SATA 6 Gbps Round Cable W/ Metal Shield, Straight to Right Angle, UV Blue, Backward Compatible with 3 Gbps and 1.5 Gbps
$4.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812123262

FULL TOWER CASE: THIS IS THE ONLY ONE I RECOMMEND:

COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case
$139.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
$99.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116754

>>> ALL (17) LISTED ITEMS TOTAL $2,186.84 (PLUS $17.72 Shipping) <<<

GRAND TOTAL FOR ALL ITEMS, SHIPPED TO YOUR DOOR >>> $2,204.56
 


The drive comes with an adapter already.
 
WOW. that look like a nice build. I'd do a few other things to it but i'm sort of picky when it comes to certain stuff, like the case and other crap.

HEY! i got a few questions.

How different would getting a 3x4gb kit be from (2) 3x2gb kits? I can find 1600 ram with much better latency in the smaller kits. Right now i think the only difference is that the more sticks, the more power consumption... and possibly the less cohesive the ram operates together. Is this right. What else?

MEM: 2x Mushkin Radioactive triple kit (3x2gb) = 12gb http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226172&cm_re=mushkin_998958-_-20-226-172-_-Product

or

1x Mushkin blackline triple kit (3x4gb)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226119&cm_re=mushkin_998798-_-20-226-119-_-Product

but if i could find, i would get these:
1x mushkin ridgeback triple kit (3x4gb)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226158&cm_re=mushkin_998954-_-20-226-158-_-Product


Now with the harddrive config. I'm thinking about setting up this baby with the following.
HDD: 4x Spinpoint F3R in RAID 5 config. (i can find these puppies at $70 a piece. Is that a good deal?)


My favorite architectural philosopher is Juhani Pallasmaa. His theory is amazing... totally existential. It's really bizarre. Much like Heidegger's phenomenological way of being. Imagine being controlled by your subconcious... at least that is how Pallasmaa attempts to create.

My favorite architect is easily Antoni Gaudi. Please take a minute to view his most recent work coming to life (granted he's been dead since 1926).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSxcQOZPyCM&feature=related
this amazement is predicted to be finished by 2032. It's truely the most deeply rooted, holistic project that exists to date. A true wonder of the world.
 
Processor: Is there any reason you decided to go with the i7-950 versus the i7-2600k, which I believe are within $20 of eachother?

If you can get one (and get it that cheap), it will certainly clock better, but I am uncertain (leery, at this point) about the built-in DRM and a few other "dubious" controls that have been added ... just me. ... Go for it ... You are prolly correct to do so (I did not see that they were yet priced on newegg).

Power supply: Why an 850 watt power supply? According to the two power calculators I've looked at, that won't be enough for a second graphics card.

Again ... You have a good point ... Two 570s will scale well ... give you a lower initial outlay (for just one), and your mobo will support two 16X GPUs. ... You coulda got by ok with just one 580 and you would be able to push better frame rates on those TWO monitors.

Graphics: I'm not sure about the GTX 580. The 570 is at a pretty sweet spot, I don't feel like the extra $150 is justified by the meager performance increase.

You have a point ... It will push 2 mons (multi-tasking) ... I was thinking about "AA" on 2 LCDs, tho.

Case: As for the HAF 932... I've looked at it previously and considered it, but man, it just looks like ***. It's not going to work. The Antec 1200 isn't a bad case, is it?

1200 is a GREAT case ... Sure ... DO that (you must "like" your system, to enjoy it ! ).

RAM: Is 6gb really going to be enough for the sort of multi-tasking load I'm looking at?

Again ... I relent ... 6GB *WOULD* be enough (for everything you have mentionned) but * DRAM IS CHEAP, RIGHT NOW * and more is always better ... A good time to really LOAD IT UP ... Go fer it !

Storage: Is the solid state drive really worth it? What kind of performance benefits are we looking at? As for the hard disks, why those Samsungs? Western Digital has caviar blacks with 64mb cache for $20 more.

DUDE ... For me? ... The extra speed is only a desirable side effect ... DEPENDABILITY is why I (REALLY, MAN) insist (For YOUR sake). Please have a little faith, on this one ... I see this as critical.

I don't mean to sound like I'm tearing you down, I'm just curious as to why you made those decisions.

No ... You were totally CORRECT to "take me to task" ... SO SAD that you did not "TAKE ME TO SCHOOL" on a fully public threrad, but feel free to post my "eating of my doo-rag" on any public thread ... because lots of folks are trying to make these same choices, for themselves, right now, and could benefit.

... Hell ... I'm gonna post THIS post over on PUFF's thread ... Because this is imortant stuff, for everyone.

... Thanks!
 
PUFF, If you are going with RAID-5, an external enclosure and "fully harware RAID controller" are advisable ...
... You CAN do it internally, using the sys CPU/SW but I would advise a REALLY GOOD Seasonic PSU and that you buy a few spare HDDs (for "re-builds") ... COLD SPARES. ... If you do that, your array should humm for up to 8 years !!!

 


I've got no idea what a doo rag is, I'm not that ghetto. :kaola:

More questions!

Considering a dual monitor configuration, you seem to feel like a single GTX 580 would create a better frame rates/overall experience than two GTX 570s. If I'm following your meaning correctly, then I suppose I can swing for the 580 and gripe about the price in my sleep. :)

When you were referring to better reliability, did you mean that solid state drives have better reliability, or that the Samsung Spinpoints have better reliability over a Western Digital? I feel like I can overcome reliability issues with a RAID 5 array of terabyte drives inside the Antec 1200.

As for pricing on Sandy Bridge, I was basing that assumption on the chart here at TH, which puts the i7-2600k at $317. I have no idea if the motherboards are going to be more expensive than the one spec'd out now.

Also, for reference, my original message to Alvin:

Purpose/Software:

My primary focus is gaming. I'd like to run World of Warcraft, Starcraft II, the Call of Duty: Black Ops, Battlefield 2, Battlefield Bad Company 2, etcetera etcetera. Essentially all the latest and greatest. 1920 x 1200 or 1920 x 1080, I'm not sure.

I also dabble in Photoshop. Here I need to emphasize dabble - the piece of crap I'm on right now handles what I do, so I think anything that can run those games will be fine for Photoshop.

I also have several messenger clients always on, including mIRC, MSN, and GTalk, and probably Ventrilo. Firefox and Windows Media Player are also frequently in use.

So we're looking at World of Warcraft (Or any of the others), Ventrilo, mIRC, MSN, GTalk, Firefox, Windows Media Player, whatever anti-virus software, task manger (AnVir), and potentially Photoshop, all running simultaneously, with a fair amount of headroom to spare if I need to do something else.

CPU

I definitely want to go with Intel for the processor.

Overclocking is a possibility, but I have some concerns about stability.

I was thinking about going with the i7-2600K, but from what I understand the actual "enthusiast/ higher end" Sandy Bridge chips aren't coming out for half a year. I can wait that long if it's the right move. The article here at Tom's says:

" This time is different. Sandy Bridge is going to have to swim its way upstream, surfacing on the flagship LGA 2011 interface in the second half of this year for the real workstation-oriented aficionados. "

I'm assuming he means that on the low end, the 1155 sockets are going to replace the 1156 sockets, and on the higher end, the 2011 sockets are going to replace the 1336 sockets.

Probably want a CPU fan as well, just for the sake of making sure it stays cold.

Graphics

I'm leaning twoard Nvidia, but that's not set in stone. I'm thinking about starting off with a single GTX 570, and using SLI to add 1 or 2 more if it starts to slow down into the future.

Motherboard

- Room for future SLI

- I would like USB 3.0, however this is not really a huge sticking point, seeing as the number of devices that utilize USB 3 are slim to none.

- SATA III 6gb/s would be nice to have. From what I understand the current 7200 RPM HDDs can't use up the throughput of SATA II 3gb/s entirely, but I believe the higher speeds of 6gb/s would benefit solid state drives.

- I'm also going to need a way to get wireless N. I don't know if the best way to do this is with some sort of card inside the case that has antennas sticking out the back, or if I should use some sort of USB device. Obviously I'd like to use wired were I can but sometimes you just need to go wireless.

- I wouldn't call myself a huge audiophile, but I do enjoy high quality sound and I would like to get it where possible. From what I understand most motherboards already have capability for Dolby 7.1 and all that fancy jazz, so this shouldn't be an issue. I don't care enough to justify a sound card. I am thinking about getting some decent headphones (AX 720 as recommended by the Xbox 360 crowd at avsforum), so I'll probably need an optical out, but this isn't make or break.

- I don't think total number of USB 2.0 ports is a huge deal. I doubt I could use all of them anyway, and USB hubs are cheap. I have plenty laying around already.

Case

For the case, I'd like to go full tower. There are several factors that went into this decision:

- Expandability. I can keep throwing in terabyte drives as I need them.

- Space. GTX 570s aren't small cards. SLI is a probability in the future.

- Cooling. Overclocking - I don't want to end up burning out my hardware for an extra gigahertz that I does nothing except increase the size of my e-penis. If I do decide I want that extra gigahertz, I want it cold. As always, cooler hardware is better, and will live longer. Seeing as this is going to be one hell of a system, I want it to stay colder than an arctic winter... on air cooling. This build needs to last. Full tower = better cooling.

- Ease of assembly. I'm not incompetent by any means, but I realize that bigger cases are easier for first timers to get everything in to all nice and right. No point in hassling myself.

- Sturdy. This house is somewhat of a zoo. I don't want a cat or a dog going flying by and knocking it over on accident. An Antec 1200 weighs like 30 pounds with nothing in it. That sucker isn't going over easy. Not that it's going to be a huge issue, seeing as the pets don't ever really get close to the case in the first place, but peace of mind, y'know?

- Aesthetics. Walking into my room and seeing a giant ass full tower just feels good. Every time I look at it, I want to think " Damn, that looks fine. "

With all this in mind, I've picked out the Antec 1200 (if the blue LEDs annoy me I can disable them or replace the fans). I'm open to alternatives here. You can base your recommendations on build quality, expansion, cooling, functionality, and the like. Don't worry about how it looks - I can veto it if it doesn't jive right with me - I don't expect you to get /that/ far inside my head.


Power Supply

The potential future graphics cards along with potential increase of hard drives led me to settle on 1000w. Antec CP-1000 to go with the case.

RAM

1600mhz should be fine here, or maybe even down to 1333mhz. I believe Sandy Bridge is DDR2 dual thread, not DDR3 triple thread, I guess I could go with like 8 or 12? Higher quality brands would be good here. This is a computer of epic proportions, and I don't want to fill it up with crap.

Storage:

It seems to me that everyone is recommends using a solid state drive as the boot drive, containing the operating system as well as the programs. The problem with this, is, SSDs are RIDICULOUSLY. Freaking. Expensive. $200 for 120gb is just completely asinine. However, if the performance benefits are really, truly, and legitimately that amazing, I will do it. Like I mentioned, this is an epic build, deserving of epic performance.

The rest can be whatever, really. Fill it up with terabyte drives or whatever. My only stipulation here is high quality. I've read a lot about certain brands (Seagate?) crapping out and people losing data. I really don't want to have to deal with that kind of bullshit. I was thinking Western Digital, but you've been around a hell of a lot longer than I have. I defer to wisdom.

Furthermore, I was considering doing a RAID-5 array. From what I understand RAID-5 would make access to data faster while providing redundancy. What do you think about this? From what I understand that if a mobo does happen to have a RAID controller, it's low quality, so I can think about adding a RAID controller or whatever, as well.

Keyboard and Mouse:

My keyboard is the one pictured here . Essentially your standard keyboard, I guess. I'd like to get something backlit for night gaming. I don't really know what would be good here. I suppose you can just take into consideration that I'm a gamer, and go from there.

As for the mouse, I'm currently running a Logitech MX 610 (it took me the past hour to figure out what this bedamnned thing is). All I know, is, it's wireless and it works. It's got forward and back buttons, scroll wheel with left/right push. It also has two buttons that launch my email and messenger when they get pressed, and they can't be disabled. I HATE this.

I would love mouse with good DPI, wireless, forward and back buttons, a scroll wheel with left/right. Custom buttons are okay, as long as I can customize them - including disabling them. If I could have turned the email and messenger buttons into something else on this mouse, it would have been great. As it is, I'm pissed. Once again, gaming in mind.

Monitor

Currently, I have a Vizio VP322 (32 inch plasma 720p) on my desk, running triple duty between my Xbox 360, cable TV, and computer, depending on which input is selected. The VGA D Sub 15 input I've been using can go up to 1366 x 768, according to the manual (.pdf). However, the system I'm on now is driving it at 1024 x 768.

Seeing as I'm used to the 32 inch, I probably don't want a small monitor. I guess a 24" would work? 1980 x 1200 would be nice... or 1980 x 1080, I guess.

I'll want to go dual screen, too, so a pair of those? How much would two good, high quality monitors at 1980 x 1200 24I for gaming, cost? Don't factor this in to the final build cost in the budget. Actually, if you can, that wouldn't hurt.


That's about it. I spent the past three hours (no sh!t) compiling my thoughts and information. I hope it conveys my mindset well.
 
TAYLOR WROTE

Considering a dual monitor configuration, you seem to feel like a single GTX 580 would create a better frame rates/overall experience than two GTX 570s. If I'm following your meaning correctly, then I suppose I can swing for the 580 and gripe about the price in my sleep.

ALVIN ANSWERS:

No ... That is NOT what I meant ...

What I am saying is that ONE GTX580 would give you better frame rates, with most/all "game features" enabled, on TWO 1080 LCDs, than ONE 570 would, IF you were to go with ONE SINGLE CARD, to start ...

... Remember that most gamers use only one monitor, especially at hi rez.

... I am only speculating that running a 2nd monitor, at hi-rez, may be a little too much, for a 570, if all ("AA" et. al.) features are enabled ...

... A 570 is plenty good for CS5 MPE and for CS5 PS and for general DUAL SCREEN MULTI-TASKING .... BUT ... running fps *GAMES* ... fully enabled ... would likely bog the 570 down, in SOME GAMES (only).

... SO ... WHAT IS AM/WAS saying is ... IF YOU REALLY WANT to run some heavy games, at highest "rez-feature-load" ... ON *TWO* 1080 LCDs, then you would do best to get ONE 580 or TWO 570s, right off the bat (i.e. NOW).

If you get (only) ONE 580 ... NOW ... then you will likely NEVER NEED to go with a DUAL-SLI configuration ... BECAUSE ... By the time the 580 FINALLY starts to drag, there will be WAY BETTER SINGLE GPU OPTION AVAILABLE !!!

.... "All That" means LOWER cost, now, *and* NEXT GPU Upgrade cycle *AND* that you can shave 100Watts off your max PSU power rating.

Do remember that Sandies use ~20 Watts less than i7-5xx chips AND that SSDs use WAY WAY less power than spinners ... My point is that POWER REQUIREMENTS will ONLY trend (significantly) DOWNward !!!

So ... I say ... Go with a GTX 580 (The best single card Games-n-ProGraphics solution) ... *NOW* ... And wait until it HURTS, before (once again) opting for THE BEST SINGLE GPU SOLUTION, for your NEXT upgrade.

But if you do not scale down your PSU, commensurately, then your cost savings (initial outlay + operating power and houshold A/C-BTUs) will not be fully realized ...
... But even without considering power ... Your total outlay, for "awsome graphics" will be LESS, overall, initially AND at the next upgrade cycle.

... Finally ... (for you budget minded fans) ... Going with a BETTER *SINGLE* GPU solution, will allow you to save up to $100, or more, on a cheaper ASROCK or Micro-ATX motherboards (WHICH WOULD NOT NEED TO SUPPORT MORE THAN ONE X16 PCIe GPU SLOT) ... Nicro ATX boards only have one GPU slot ... Most cheaper X58 mobo options WILL not support a X16 + X16 SLI configuration.

So, ... There are LOTS of reasons to go with a single GTX 580, even if TWO 570s would be faster (now or later).

You feelin' me, Holmes ?

Let me "hip you up" ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9VU-sTDAQs



 
Hey ... It really is not a good idea to try to ...

TURN THIS GRAPHICS ws thread, into a gaming thread ... I don't want to dilute the purpose or to get too far off the point ...

... Tho lots of Graphics pros *DO* love to game !!!

PS Everyone ... I recommend the HAF 922, for "lighter" X58 builds ... not a full tower!.

 
Alvin's responses (bold type) inserted into Taylor's last post
*****************************************


When you were referring to better reliability, did you mean that solid state drives have better reliability, or that the Samsung Spinpoints have better reliability over a Western Digital?

SSDs DO NOT CRASH


I feel like I can overcome reliability issues with a RAID 5 array of terabyte drives inside the Antec 1200.

[:jaydeejohn:3] [:jaydeejohn:3] [:jaydeejohn:3] <<< You :: Me >>> [:bilbat:3]


As for pricing on Sandy Bridge, I was basing that assumption on the chart here at TH, which puts the i7-2600k at $317.

Great ... Throw me a link !!!

I have no idea if the motherboards are going to be more expensive than the one spec'd out now.

Should run on the exact same motherboard (1366 X58) ... No ??? !!! ... Anyone ??? !!!
(might need a bios upgrade (or two, or three ... or ... ? )
 


I would REALLY like to see someone experiment with GPU rendering. Octane Render is only 99 Euro's. If I had the machine here, I WOULD get it, now that I have a better understanding of how this stuff works.

Puff, why don't you get off your *** and build something. Then get Octane Render and report back here.

I promise you this, if Newegg refuses my RMA on the Quadro (heaven forbid!) I'm going to take a weekend, go down there, and install it in her machine along with Octane Render.

Come on, Puff. I'm too old for this. You need to step up the the plate!
 
The longer Puff can wait ... the clearer that "forward vision" will be ...

... Sandies are just about to hit the street and Puff might want to do that.

... Personally, I like for a new proc to be out (available at newegg) for 90 days, so there is time for benches, articles, cutomer and pro reviews, mobo-bios updates and bug-fixes, etc. ... BEFORE I would be willing to commit $100s of dollars ...

... And, no matter how "cheap" the Sandies are, they will be even way more cheaper in 18 months + ...

... I'd just like to see what the OC crowd has to say and how all the benches and DRM, etc. effect the real world ... First.

SSDs are also getting cheaper and "better", by the day ... a good time to cool one's heels, but there is no real need to wait, either.

 



Taylor ... There are SO MANY reaasons not to go with that PIG of a DEAD SOCKET (1155) that I'm not even going to dignify the mere thought with ANY arguments or analysis ... DO YOURSEF A *HUGE* favor, and do not give 1156 ANY thought or consideration ... JUST SAY "NO" !!!

Trust me, on that one ... please! ... I don't have the energy to explain but the that socket has a cobbled PCIe Bus and the socket has reached the end of it's "platform longevity" ... Pathetic prospects for expansion ... etc.

YES, TAYLOR ... We can go (back) to private mode OR you can start a new PUBLIC thread, and post that link, here, and at my PM inbox ...

... You have enough snap to keep me honest, and that should be entertaining, for some, and informative, for many.

 


I don't believe that 1155 has been around. According to Tom's Hardware, as the same link as the chart:

This one is bound to rile up anyone who recently spent their Christmas cash on a new Lynnfield- or Clarkdale-based platform. Yes, Sandy Bridge employs a new processor interface called LGA 1155. Yes, that’s one-pin off from the existing LGA 1156 interface, breaking the compatibility of a socket that’s just over one year old. In fact, the actual interface is identical; it’s just keyed differently to prevent you from dropping in a Lynnfield- or Clarkdale-based CPU.

With that final parting word, I will create a new thread. Keep an eye out. http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/302352-31-gaming-monster#t2244169
 
Illy, sorry man, i really have to hold out on this one. I need to get this computer as cheap as possible and the action in the field right is going to bring forth the layoffs of the previous generation. New CPUs, new SSDs... these are the hold ups. I would like to capitalize on this as much as possible. I will do benchmarks when i get this stuff, and i plan on using octane render too. It'll be good to compare my build with your daughters.

Guys, is there any reason i need a P6X58D Premium over a Sabertooth? I can't find any real reason... i will never use more than two video cards. If that's the case, i could save like $100 bingos right there... the system might happen by the end of the month!

Lastly what's up with the memory question above? is there a big benefit to getting a set of 6x4gb sticks versus 2 sets of 3x4gb sticks? is there a big difference between getting a set of 3x4gb sticks versus 2 sets of 3x2gb sticks (besides upgradability)?

Soleri is a remarkable man, but his Arcosanti is quite a task to upkeep, so i hear. I like the earth dwelling idea he has going on. True sustainability is living with the planet, rather than off the planet. Give and take is what it's all about.
 


If newegg refuses your RMA and you don't want to do THAT... i'd probably buy it from you, as long as warrenty and support and all that could be transfered to me. Just throwing it out there. I'll pick it up here in a little bit Illy, good things come to those who wait!