Home Video Editing - Setup

[peesee]

Don’t know if this is the correct forum for my question, but here goes.

I want a computer for use with DV Editing software. Before I purchase this stuff I would like to get some opinions on how this PC would run. In the future I would like to add a few upgrades of RAM, HDD and maybe even CPU! Would this be a good set up for that?

SETUP
-ASIS P5AD2-E Premium M/B
-Intel P4 630 3.0Ghz 2MB CPU
-2 x 512 MB DDR2 533 Corsair RAM
-Seagate 7200rpm SATA150 Hard Disk 120MB
-Seagate 7200rpm SATA150 Hard Disk 200MB
-Magic Pro PCI Express GeForce 6200 128MB DDR DV1 TV Out Graphics card.
-LG 16x DVD R/W
-2theMax 400w or 450w power supply.

MY COMMENTS
I am not sure about the model number for the Corsair RAM or the PSU but have been advised they are suitable.
-Motherboard, I wanted one that would work with future upgrades.
-CPU, seems sufficient for video editing.
-RAM, DDR2 is expensive so I will get more when the price goes down. With upgrades in mind would it be better to purchase 1x1GB or 2x512MB now?
-Seems to me a 2 HDD set up with this motherboard would work well for video, for now.
-Video Card, Cheap but adequate for video, for now. Is this correct?
-PSU, Hong Kong Brand.

This will be the first computer I’ve build so I’ve probably missed something! The Net has lots of great info. I hope choosing the components is the hardest part about building a computer because it ante been easy.

Cheers

 

[peesee]

So it's one of two things.

a) Almost perfect setup and know one knows what to say.

b) I’ve asked the most stupid question and know one knows what to say.


So which one is it, a) or b)?

I’m not complaining just try to bump the post up and get some attention and ultimately some help.

Regards
peesee

 

[ste]

- hmm, i dont know about the motherboard but it will be likely dual channel so you will have to install memory pairwise.

- I would choose 2hds with the same size, so that you can make a raid 0 array.

 

[Rugger]

Make sure you have a case with good airflow. The Prescott cores run really hot. If Mozz shows up then he can give some great advice on cooling - he highly recommends water cooling for the Prescotts. If not properly cooled it will trottle down in speed. That's a great mobo. Are you planning on setting up a RAID? If so then you really should get the same size drives. If not then the RAID will only recognize the size of the smallest drive and you'll lose 80GB of drive space. There is a great RAID FAQ in the HDD section. Won't comment on the RAM - not enough experience with DDR2 and Intel...

__________________________________________________
<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>

 

[endyen]

It is a nice mobo. Too bad Intel wont support dual core on it. The max upgrade for cpu will be a 3.8 ghz chip.
What kind of video do you edit, that that low end a graphics card will do?

 

[peesee]

Thanks for the replies!

- Do I have to install the memory in pairs or does it just improve performance. If it is just performance maybe I could live with 1 x 1GB module for now and buy another in six months.
- I am planning on using RAID, I will now get 2 x 160GB HDD. I was not aware they should be the same.
- I don’t want to go down the water cooled path. I guessed that a well ventilated case would do the job.
- I am finding it difficult to select components, especially when considering future upgrades. I figured with this M/B I could easily upgrade RAM, HDD, Graphics card and maybe CPU if and when required in the future. endyen - Are you saying that the fastest CPU that would ever work with this M/B is 3.8ghz? I guess I could live with that.
- I have a DV camera and have been using it for six months. I have the Adobe Video Collection (Premiere Pro 1.5 plus extra’s) for video capture and editing. My laptop is not up to the task with this software. It’s just for home / hobby use. I will have loads of time on my hands for the next six months. As far as the graphic card goes I just wanted something that will get the job done well but for a cheap price. I will also be using this PC for a little CAD work and general home use. Any advice appreciated.

Regards

peesee

 

[endyen]

For those apps, you may be better served by an A64 system. Not only would it run cooler, and handle 64bit better, but a s939 board will be upgradable to dual core.
It might even leave enough change to upgrade to a graphics engine that would allow you to see what you've edited.
Bothe platforms use dual channel memory. Because the Intel system is so memory starved, not using dual channel will give a 10% loss in perf.
Since the Amd system uses standard DDR, it will save a little money there as well.
At this point, DDR2 is causing a net performance loss, for most people.

 

[peesee]

endyen

Can you suggest a M/B, CPU, RAM & graphics card for an A64 system for around US$700-800.


Regards

peesee

 

[peesee]

Well

ASUS A8NSLI Deluxe
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 2.2GHz
2 x 512MB DDR400 Kingston
Seagate 7200rpm SATA150 Hard Disk 160MB
Seagate 7200rpm SATA150 Hard Disk 160MB
Gigabyte 6600GT 128MB
LG 16x DVD R/W (Double Layer)
Asus 16x DVD ROM
Sony Floppy
Lian LI PC-60 Plus
Antec 450W PSU

What do you think?

I reckon with that case the deluxe verson of the M/B is a waste.
I might get 2 X 1gb RAM and be done with it.
I will get Windows XP Pro for the future O/S upgrade.

Regards
peesee

 

[maxgi]

Let me comment on your latest post.

It is a known fact that Intel CPU's are running cooler than
AMD CPU's. I would personally use an Intel processor 3.0
or 3.2 GG with an MSI board having at least the 845 cheap
set (Raid controller built in Mobo).

Check weather your Graphic card has a TV out so you can
connect a TV or an analog monitor. As you will advance into
non linear editing you will find that you need 2 monitors in order to see results on a true TV.

You mentioned that you have a DV Camcorder. Well you will
need a motherboard which have a "Fire wire" connection as
you will be able to capture directly from your Camcorder
to your hard drive as the Adobe software allow that. Otherwise you will have to put a pci card having a "fire wire" connection.

 

[fishmahn]

It is a known fact that Intel CPU's are running cooler than
AMD CPU's.

This may have been a fact 4 years ago. It is not a fact today. In fact its the other way around right now.

Today, AMD CPUs run significantly cooler than Intel CPUs. The Pentium 4 Prescott is a very hot chip (cooler now than it was a year ago, but still very hot), and the AMD Athlon 64 Winchesters are quite cool. A stock cooled Prescott (even the new ones) will hit close to (if not over) 60c in a decently cooled case under load, and the Winchesters generally don't even break 50c in the same conditions (stock HSF/decent case).

Mike.

(edit to fix my smiley)<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by fishmahn on 04/18/05 04:05 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[redwingslv]

Just thought I'd throw my two cents in as well. I recently looked at the same scenario as you, peesee. Also switched from Intel Prescott's due to heat & no desire to water cool.

I'm leaning toward the following mobo/cpu combo, based on some recommendations here:

DFI Lanparty UT NF3 250gb socket 754
Athlon64 3400+ Newcastle

Unless you plan on upgrading processor within the next 6 months or you plan on spending the big bucks on a dual cpu setup within a year, I've done research that shows the Athlon 3400+ Newcastle outperforming the 3500+ that you are looking at.

I'm not trying to start (or restart) a s754 vs s939 thread, just wanted you to know some options. Unless your a hardcore computer guy, most of us only upgrade a system every couple years, in which case you'd need a whole new mb/cpu/graphics/ram setup anyway.

Cost will be about the same, but I'm betting performance will be better with the Newcastle and s754. Compare the 2 processors on THG here <A HREF="http://216.92.52.205/index.html" target="_new">http://216.92.52.205/index.html</A> Make sure to select the 3400 Newcastle not the Clawhammer.

Anyone care to comment on this? (and bash socket 754!!) Just wanted him to look.

EDIT: Agree on the Intel vs AMD heat issue. Not even close, Prescott's are WAY hotter.

PS - Peesee, I got the impression this was a home/hobby activity (the video editing) If that's the case, will you be upgrading to dual cpu and spending a lot of money in the near future on a new system after this one?

 

[pat]

I'll tell you. Get an A64 3400+ socket 754. No matter what other might say about socket 754, for video editing, they are the best A64. Get a nforce3 or nforce4 board. Nforce 4 board with PCIe are coming for socket754. Get at least 1 gigs of RAM. And fast HDD. more is better for editing.


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[TAZ]

looks like a lot of good advice here already but here's my bit anyway.

ASUS A8NSLI Deluxe
have it, love it, good board

AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 2.2GHz
have it, love it, better than my P4 3.0GHz, 800, 1MB
to settle a rather disturbing comment i saw earlier the
AMD gives off only 33W heat where the P4 gives off up to 100W, i need a standalone air con unit to keep my P4 below 54C when rendering!!!

2 x 512MB DDR400 Kingston
Depending on the software your using, this will prob do but if you want to use Adobe to it's best, you'll definetly need 2GB

Seagate 7200rpm SATA150 Hard Disk 160MB
Seagate 7200rpm SATA150 Hard Disk 160MB
OK, so that's 1 array, if you want to get the best possible rendering times, you'll need a second. the quickest possible setup has the actual original video files on one drive and the renders to another

Gigabyte 6600GT 128MB
more than adequate, your GC has nothing to do with video. rendering to mpeg2 is done by the CPU unless you have a good capture card with rendering hardware onboard.

LG 16x DVD R/W (Double Layer)
haven't used this model, i have the the benQ and sony versions, don't know the exact models off hand but can get them, they've never let me down as long as i've been running adobe, although i've had many issues with pinnacle studio 9 on projects over 2 hours. i'm quite happy to put that down that ball of [peep] editing suite though.

Asus 16x DVD ROM
fine

Sony Floppy
why??

Lian LI PC-60 Plus
excellent

Antec 450W PSU
go for the newpower 480 for this mobo just to be sure, there are also a couple of other really nice PSU's out there that meet the v2.0 specs as well.

the specs i've recommended are based on what i use myself, my own main system('bout 1 year old) is:

P4 3.0Ghz 800Mhz 1MB (avoid like the PLAGUE!!)
MSI 865PE Neo2 platinum
2x 1GB kingston valueram
1x 80GB Maxtor diamondplus9 (7200rpm, 8MB, SATA) (working drive)
2x 160GB Maxtor diamondplus9 (7200rpm, 8MB, SATA) (video drives, mirrored)
1x Matrox Parhelia 256 triplehead GC
2x 17" ACER TFT w DVI
1x Benq DL DVD+R (not sure of model)
1x Sony DL DVD+/-R(not sure of model)
Lian Li case (not sure of model)
Antec 550W PSU

this system works like a dream as long as the P4 is kept reasonably cool. burning time for a 1hr project from AVI to disk including rendering is about 1h 30min (average), rendering for a 3hr project is about 3h 15min (average). if you try to do this with only one drive, you can easily add on another 35% to those times, probably more.
this of course won't be an issue if you are just playing around with small projects and home video, but it's just something you should be aware of.

*note: this machine is SOLELY for video, it is not used to play games, the modem is disabled, it has no antivirus or firewall software running at any time.

like i said, i have an AMD64 system too, but that's for gaming so i've never tried using it for video. imagine that if i had the same system built around it though that it'd do the job just as well.

________________________________________________________
know your limits, and never stop trying to exceed them!

*edited for the many spelling mistakes my dislexic ass never spotted! :/<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TAZ on 04/19/05 10:17 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[peesee]

So I just spent a lot of money on the following
ASUS A8NSLI Deluxe
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (wus changed my mind)
4 x 512GB DDR400 RAM (The Good Stuff so it can run at 400)
Seagate 7200rpm SATA150 Hard Disk 160MB
Seagate 7200rpm SATA150 Hard Disk 160MB
Gigabyte GV-NX66T128VP 6600GT
LG 16x DVD R/W (Double Layer)
LG DVD R
Floppy Drive
Antect 500w power supply
Lian Li PC-60 Plus Case
Logitech LX 700 Cordless Desktop


Need to get some more stuff like O/S and Monitor soon, maybe speakers and WLAN in a month or two.

I will upgrade to duel processor (only, not the M/B) when I think I can get some good bang for my buck (maybe a year). I might try out the SLI with an additional graphics card in the future if I think it will be usefull (I doubt it). I definetly will get some more storage space, in about six months. Still trying to decide on the best raid setup for now.

maxgi
When choosing components for my PC I was looking at future upgrade as being important. The fact that this board can be used with the AMD duel processors was a big plus. I will be using this PC in a very hot and very humid location. Sure It will be operating in aircondition rooms some of the time but not all the time. It has been widely written that the latest intel chips are dam hot.

redwingslv
I was looking for the latest CPU's and boards. Did not bother looking into the 754. No offence, it's the past not the future. I want to be able to do little upgrades of my PC for the next couple of years which I guess would be more difficult with the socket 754 CPU's.

Will be slowly putting this thing together over the next week so I will report on how it all goes later. Thanks again everyone for you comments.

regards

peesee

 

[redwingslv]

With your intentions for upgrades in the near future, dual cpu and possibly SLI - looks like you've got a good system there! Enjoy it, and post back how it's going!!

<i>"Newbie" never felt so good!</i>

 

[TAZ]

you will prob benefit a good deal from dual core all round and it should decimate rendering times, i'd be very interested in hearing how that goes with adobe software when it happens.

2GB RAM == good move, nice one.

SLI == won't make even the slightest bit of difference so unless you're gaming, don't bother.

speakers == if you're serious about making good quality DVD's then you'll definetly need a good set, that MOBO has decent sound onboard so there's no need for a soundcard but definetly get good speakers.

RAID == with only two drives, you can either go for slow and secure and mirror them, or fast and hopeful and just put them on a channel each. personally, i'd go with the latter. rendering to the source drive *really* slows things down (eg:a 6min job can take as long as 17mins! FACT! i've tried it, granted usually around 11mins but 17mins at worst)

all in all, you've the makings of a pretty decent system there, have fun.

oh, and i would HIGHLY recommend going the extra mile and getting a dual display setup, particularly if you are using adobe. really makes working in premier, encore, after effects and audition a LOT more fluid. doesn't really make much of a difference to photoshop.

________________________________________________________
know your limits, and never stop trying to exceed them!

 

[pat]

I have RAID in my computer since 2001... RAID0. not a single problem, with data loss or corruption. I use good quality PSU, and that help. Editing benefit from RAID, as importing video files and scrooling them to find the part you want benefit from high throughput too.

Rendering could be done on any other drive, given it has sufficient space. even a cheap 30$ 40 gigs HDD would do the job. But multimedia files usefull for editing should be kept on the array to speed up the editing.

Speakers wont help the quality of the DVD, but a nice set is a plus, I agree.

As for dual display, well , tv set is what most people use to watch their dvd, so having one connected if possible will give him more real result than a second monitor. Not every tv set has the same viewing area for the same size. My JVC had almost half an inch more than a Sony in the same category/size. Better have the What you see now is what you will have than the what you see now might not be what you'll se on your tv..



<font color=red>Sig space for rent. make your offer.</font color=red>

 

[fishmahn]

Not every tv set has the same viewing area for the same size. My JVC had almost half an inch more than a Sony in the same category/size. Better have the What you see now is what you will have than the what you see now might not be what you'll se on your tv..

Curiosity got me. Do you mean the viewable area of the screen caused by the bezel of a CRT case? Or overscan/underscan of the image?

Mike.

 

[pat]

TV set usually display less of the image size than the monitor. Usually, you have to leave an area aroung the screen of the monitor as a safety zone.

When I bought my TV set 2 years ago, Iwent to the store a have te clerk to tune them on a news channel. Usually, you have a text bar at the bottom. The JVC I got was the only one that could display all the text without cutting it, or still having room before and after the text line. one would even cut the last digit of the time... The JVC had more space below the text too.. What that means, is that I know that my TV has a bigger image area than some others and when I edit and assemble title screen with text, I have to leave one inch on each side the tv screen as a safe zone for others. On my monitor, it is even more, as they have a better resolution and would display all of the lines and columns.

So, if you put an image to close from the edge of the monitor screen, once viewed on the TV set, you could end up with that image cutted..

<font color=red>Sig space for rent. make your offer.</font color=red>

 

[fishmahn]

Ok, that would be overscan/underscan.

Thanks, Pat. That's good to know. I don't do video stuff at this time, but you never know...

Mike.

 

[TAZ]

got to disagree quite strongly on a few points here i'm afraid pat:

"...speakers won't help the quality of the DVD..."

they don't contribute to the graphics or system performance fair enough, but given that there are a lot of people out there with big systems hooked to their TV setup, they will hear all the sh*t that standard low end speakers wont let you hear when you are editing. result?! the DVD you thought sounded perfect on your computer with its standard pc/monitor speaker, does in truth sound nothing like perfect.

when you are editing video, you need to be able to see and hear at superior quality to the average home user in order to maintain any kind of standard of work. i'm a second generation cameraman, i've been in this business all my life, good quality speakers are a must if you are taking this seriously.

as for the dual display thing, it has nothing to do with the viewable area of the picture, the video image at full size will only take up about 1/4 of one monitor because it's only VGA where your monitor is prob SXGA or above. the reason for dual monitor is so that you can see all of the tools you are using at one time.
eg: premier, working off two monitors i can see my preview screen, clip screen, audio rack, clip library, timelines, properties panel, history and toolbar all at one time. on one monitor you'd have to keep fishing around and pulling these up as you needed them. dual monitor ain't necessary but even adobe recommend it.

i agree on the external TV monitor bit though, i have a preview TV connected on mine as well and it has proven invaluable for peace of mind on many occasions.
adobe however does have a safe zone mask which you can turn on and off as necessary and guarantees that anything inside the lines will be viewable.

the RAID 0 setup will make tranferring files between the drives/arrays and as pat says, scanning through them, a shedload quicker but won't benefit you a whole lot beyond that as it's the CPU rendering that *really* slows things down not the data rate.

finally, a cheap drive is not necessarily the best idea either. imagine you've spent 3 hours waiting for a project to render and then that drive fails?? ...not fun.

this is why my ideally recommended setup is
1xHD for the system software
2xHD in mirrored config for capture
2xHD in morrored confog for render
this setup is expensive and could definetly be considered overkill for the amateur user, but it is a good model for the sort of redundancy you should be aiming for if you start to get really serious.

you are dealing with incedibly big files (a 2hr AVI can easily break 25GB at DV quality!!), do not underestimate the amount of work these drives will be doing.

with this setup, the drives that are doing all the work are completely fault tolerant, if one fails, throw it out and rebuilt the array --> zero data loss.


<edit>
hehehe... actually, if you were feeling *really* rich, you could go for a HD setup that would accomodate both myself and pat:

1xHD for system software
4xHD -->2x 2xHD mirrored arrays, in RAID 0 for capture
4xHD -->2x 2xHD mirrored arrays, in RAID 0 for render
throughput *and* redundancy.. (oooh, shiney!! 😛)

HAHAHA.. that'd be mental, 9 Hard Drives LMAO!!
I don't think that config is even possible, is it?
________________________________________________________
know your limits, and never stop trying to exceed them!

 

[peesee]

TAZ

You make some good points about the quality of the picture and sound when editing video. How can you edit video properly if you can't see or hear it properly. Duel monitors are very handy. They increase productivity and reduce frustration. I used CAD workstations with duel monitors and I can definitely see the benefit with DV editing. Don't know if I can justify the cost but I will see. I will definitely give a CRT monitor/TV as a second display a try.

I am still trying to work out what RAID set-up I ultimately want. I like the idea of the O/S being on RAID 0. I like the idea of two sperate drives for DV editing (one for reading one for writing). I also like the idea RAID 1 for safety. Pat your idea about 9 HDD would be great but to costly. For the medium term I was thinking more along the lines of the following.

2 x 160HDD RAID 0, for storage of all my programs and data.
1 x 160HDD to used as a second drive for DV editing
1 x 200-300HDD for daily backup of all data.

regards

peesee

 

[chadwickvm]

TAZ
Would simply getting a nice sound card and an expensive set of head phones cure the problem of having poor pc speakers for editing? I know the head set I use on my Line6 Guitarport sound a hell of a lot better than the pc speakers i have.

 

[pat]

Maybe I should have say inexpensive HDD.. today, brand new 40 gigs are real inexpensive, and might worth it.

I would like to have a 3 dysplay setup, but budget doesnt allow. I find the tv set more usefull than 2 monitor display. but this is in my opinion.

On my system, sound is digitally outputted to my home theater system.. If it is clearthere, it will be clear anywhere..



It all depend of the need and budget of the one that will use it. What I was trying to do, is to give him some advice to keep a reasonnable budget but having a nice system for editing anyway.

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