# Hone Sundan socketing revisited

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#### Guest

##### Guest

Hi,

I've always accepted that the optimum way to socket a Hone Sundan has been
to stuff in 1 x Shael/2 x Amn.

However, recently I've been pointed at the Weapon Speed Calculator
(http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english), and
there I confirmed the IAS breakpoints for a Yari (or Ghost Spear for that
matter, if you upgrade it) are:

0 - 9 - 20 - 37 - 65 - 105 - 200

This means, with 1 x Shael you hit the 20% IAS/7fpa breakpoint. However,
with 2 x Shael, you hit the 6.5fpa breakpoint. This means the merc in
effect deal more damage, at the costs of some less LL.

Anyone have any experience with this? How much would it be worth to put in
2 x IAS/xx%ed jewels in the Hone Sundan, and try to get some extra IAS on
the other gear?

Regards,

Patrick.

G

#### Guest

##### Guest

Hi,

Patrick Vervoorn <patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote in
news:1f730\$4264a492\$82a1d3bf\$9796@news2.tudelft.nl:

> However, recently I've been pointed at the Weapon Speed Calculator
> (http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english),
> and there I confirmed the IAS breakpoints for a Yari (or Ghost Spear
> for that matter, if you upgrade it) are:
>
> 0 - 9 - 20 - 37 - 65 - 105 - 200
>
> This means, with 1 x Shael you hit the 20% IAS/7fpa breakpoint.
> However, with 2 x Shael, you hit the 6.5fpa breakpoint. This means the
> merc in effect deal more damage, at the costs of some less LL.

7 vs 6.5 fpa means 3.5 vs 3.8 attacks per second. This is only minimally
more damage against a loss of 7% LL.

3.1 * 100 damage * 21% LL = 60/90
3.5 * 100 damage * 14% LL = 49/84
3.8 * 100 damage * 7% LL = 27/64
4.1 * 100 damage * 10% LL = 41
4.1 * 100 damage * 17% LL = 70

The second number is an additional 10%LL from helmet.

>
> Anyone have any experience with this? How much would it be worth to
> put in 2 x IAS/xx%ed jewels in the Hone Sundan, and try to get some
> extra IAS on the other gear?

I guess 2 SHAEL/AMN and 2 15%IAS jewels in equipment with some additional
life leech on the helmet might work (see last line of comparison).

My recent mercs carry an Obedience thresher with about 700 max damage and
Tal Rasha's helmet with 10%LL. Works like a charm..

Regards,

Oliver

G

#### Guest

##### Guest

In article <d43h5m\$kum\$04\$1@news.t-online.com>,
Oliver Wenzel <ouuch@t-online.de> wrote:

>Patrick Vervoorn <patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote in
>news:1f730\$4264a492\$82a1d3bf\$9796@news2.tudelft.nl:
>
>> However, recently I've been pointed at the Weapon Speed Calculator
>> (http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english),
>> and there I confirmed the IAS breakpoints for a Yari (or Ghost Spear
>> for that matter, if you upgrade it) are:
>>
>> 0 - 9 - 20 - 37 - 65 - 105 - 200
>>
>> This means, with 1 x Shael you hit the 20% IAS/7fpa breakpoint.
>> However, with 2 x Shael, you hit the 6.5fpa breakpoint. This means the
>> merc in effect deal more damage, at the costs of some less LL.
>
>7 vs 6.5 fpa means 3.5 vs 3.8 attacks per second. This is only minimally
>more damage against a loss of 7% LL.
>
>3.1 * 100 damage * 21% LL = 60/90
>3.5 * 100 damage * 14% LL = 49/84
>3.8 * 100 damage * 7% LL = 27/64
>4.1 * 100 damage * 10% LL = 41
>4.1 * 100 damage * 17% LL = 70
>
>The second number is an additional 10%LL from helmet.

Yes, but I'm talking maximising damage vs keeping the merc alive. Keep in
mind this is a skelliemancer's merc, which probably doesn't get hit a lot.
So, instead of the 100-damage numbers above, the merc deals about 938-4573
damage per hit, let's say 2755 average. So that would work out to:

3.5 x 2755 x 14%LL = 1350 (total damage: 9642)
3.8 x 2755 x 7%LL = 733 (total damage: 10469)

Since his total life now is 2047, it looks like he will be able to gain
back about 1/3rd his life per second, and deals about 800 more damage.
Hmmm, indeed not very significant, but it's my feeling he will still be
able to survive pretty OK... And it's my aim to let the merc deal as much
damage as possible, while still able to survive.

But I will have to test this, and that will cost me: 1 x Hel, 1 x Amn and
2 Shaels. Which I don't have at the moment.

>> Anyone have any experience with this? How much would it be worth to
>> put in 2 x IAS/xx%ed jewels in the Hone Sundan, and try to get some
>> extra IAS on the other gear?
>
>I guess 2 SHAEL/AMN and 2 15%IAS jewels in equipment with some additional
>life leech on the helmet might work (see last line of comparison).
>
>My recent mercs carry an Obedience thresher with about 700 max damage and
>Tal Rasha's helmet with 10%LL. Works like a charm..

Well, mine has the above-mentioned ethereal upgraded 199% ED Hone Sundan
(does 100-733 damage), an ethereal Wire Fleece with Duress in it, and an
unsocketed Guillaume's Face. So the final breakpoint is not really
attainable for me. The cheap option might probably be a +max/min damage
jewel in the Guillaume's Face.

Regards,

Patrick.

G

#### Guest

##### Guest

Hi,

Patrick Vervoorn <patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote in
news:5fa13\$42655996\$82a1d3bf\$19874@news1.tudelft.nl:

> In article <d43h5m\$kum\$04\$1@news.t-online.com>,
> Oliver Wenzel <ouuch@t-online.de> wrote:

>>3.1 * 100 damage * 21% LL = 60/90
>>3.5 * 100 damage * 14% LL = 49/84
>>3.8 * 100 damage * 7% LL = 27/64
>>4.1 * 100 damage * 10% LL = 41
>>4.1 * 100 damage * 17% LL = 70
>>
>>The second number is an additional 10%LL from helmet.
>
> Yes, but I'm talking maximising damage vs keeping the merc alive. Keep
> in mind this is a skelliemancer's merc, which probably doesn't get hit
> a lot. So, instead of the 100-damage numbers above, the merc deals
> about 938-4573 damage per hit, let's say 2755 average. So that would
> work out to:
>
> 3.5 x 2755 x 14%LL = 1350 (total damage: 9642)
> 3.8 x 2755 x 7%LL = 733 (total damage: 10469)
>
> Since his total life now is 2047, it looks like he will be able to
> gain back about 1/3rd his life per second, and deals about 800 more
> damage. Hmmm, indeed not very significant, but it's my feeling he will
> still be able to survive pretty OK... And it's my aim to let the merc
> deal as much damage as possible, while still able to survive.

don't forget that you won't hit every time, monsters will have physical
resistances and your merc will get interrupted a lot when fighting in a
crowd. So I guess he'll only do full leech 1-2 times per second.
>>
>>My recent mercs carry an Obedience thresher with about 700 max damage
>>and Tal Rasha's helmet with 10%LL. Works like a charm..
>
> Well, mine has the above-mentioned ethereal upgraded 199% ED Hone
> Sundan (does 100-733 damage), an ethereal Wire Fleece with Duress in
> it, and an unsocketed Guillaume's Face. So the final breakpoint is not
> really attainable for me. The cheap option might probably be a
> +max/min damage jewel in the Guillaume's Face.

That's a mighty nice stick you're poking at the baddies. But unless you're
doing a lot of boss runs, I'd think about exchanging the Guillaume's either
against a leeching helmet or a Delirium? With that much damage, Crushing
Blow won't do much for your killing power against normal monsters. Might be
better to distract them with Delirium and get more normal blows in..

You could always swap helmets when going against a boss..

Regards,

Oliver

G

#### Guest

##### Guest

"Patrick Vervoorn" <patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> skrev i en
meddelelse news:5fa13\$42655996>

*SNIP*

> 3.5 x 2755 x 14%LL = 1350 (total damage: 9642)
> 3.8 x 2755 x 7%LL = 733 (total damage: 10469)
>
> Since his total life now is 2047, it looks like he will be able to gain
> back about 1/3rd his life per second...

*SNIP*

Well, you leech a lot less than that in NM and even more so in Hell.
IIRC, the leech is only half in NM and a quarter in Hell.
Hence two Amns and not one.
--
Jonas

My DVD's: http://www.intervocative.com/dvdcollection.aspx/Jonasgaarde

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#### Guest

##### Guest

In article <d43npb\$hge\$01\$2@news.t-online.com>,
Oliver Wenzel <ouuch@t-online.de> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Patrick Vervoorn <patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote in
>news:5fa13\$42655996\$82a1d3bf\$19874@news1.tudelft.nl:

[snip]

>> Since his total life now is 2047, it looks like he will be able to
>> gain back about 1/3rd his life per second, and deals about 800 more
>> damage. Hmmm, indeed not very significant, but it's my feeling he will
>> still be able to survive pretty OK... And it's my aim to let the merc
>> deal as much damage as possible, while still able to survive.
>
>don't forget that you won't hit every time, monsters will have physical
>resistances and your merc will get interrupted a lot when fighting in a
>crowd. So I guess he'll only do full leech 1-2 times per second.

Hmm, yeah, you're right of course. And I forgot about the leech penalty in
NM and Hell. (See other post).

>> Well, mine has the above-mentioned ethereal upgraded 199% ED Hone
>> Sundan (does 100-733 damage), an ethereal Wire Fleece with Duress in
>> it, and an unsocketed Guillaume's Face. So the final breakpoint is not
>> really attainable for me. The cheap option might probably be a
>> +max/min damage jewel in the Guillaume's Face.
>
>That's a mighty nice stick you're poking at the baddies. But unless you're
>doing a lot of boss runs, I'd think about exchanging the Guillaume's either
>against a leeching helmet or a Delirium? With that much damage, Crushing
>Blow won't do much for your killing power against normal monsters. Might be
>better to distract them with Delirium and get more normal blows in..

Well, as I've explained before, I'm wary of the fireworks on Delerium
interfering with my necro's curses. Also, Guillaume's Face has more than
35% CB, it also has 15% Deadly Strike (chance to do double damage), Faster
Hit Recovery (never bad) and +15 str. Also, what I'm not sure of: is CB
damage also 'routed' through the Leech routine? If it is, then that's a
big chunk of damage done, and converted to life.

I do have one helmet that might be an option: Andariel's Visage. But
before I equip that, I should maybe make a comparison between the effects
of Guillaume's Face's mods vs the +2 skills of Andariels Visage (+2 to te
merc's might aura).

>You could always swap helmets when going against a boss..

Well, not only am I maximising damage, I also want to minimise
'inconvenience', so that's why I try to find a nice optimum. Also,
since Hell Baal is regularly on the menu, the 95% CB of the above setup is
quite nice to have.

Regards,

Patrick.

G

#### Guest

##### Guest

Hi,

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@hooya.co.nz> wrote in news:d45h2c.1a8.1
@fairground.synaptic.net.nz:

> Oliver Wenzel wrote:
>>
>> My recent mercs carry an Obedience thresher with about 700 max damage
>> and Tal Rasha's helmet with 10%LL. Works like a charm..
>
> Works even better with a Ral'ed Andariels Visage and an eth Obedience
> thresher with 900+ max damage.

I don't have that helmet . And no ethereal thresher, too.

Regards,

Oliver

G

#### Guest

##### Guest

Hi,

Patrick Vervoorn <patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote in
news:64e93\$4265844d\$82a1d3bf\$28195@news2.tudelft.nl:

> In article <d43npb\$hge\$01\$2@news.t-online.com>,
> Oliver Wenzel <ouuch@t-online.de> wrote:

>>don't forget that you won't hit every time, monsters will have
>>physical resistances and your merc will get interrupted a lot when
>>fighting in a crowd. So I guess he'll only do full leech 1-2 times per
>>second.
>
> Hmm, yeah, you're right of course. And I forgot about the leech
> penalty in NM and Hell. (See other post).
>

yeah, very good that he mentioned the penalty. So, it's still a matter of
experimenting to see how much life leech is enough.

>>That's a mighty nice stick you're poking at the baddies. But unless
>>you're doing a lot of boss runs, I'd think about exchanging the
>>Guillaume's either against a leeching helmet or a Delirium? With that
>>much damage, Crushing Blow won't do much for your killing power
>>against normal monsters. Might be better to distract them with
>>Delirium and get more normal blows in..
>
> Well, as I've explained before, I'm wary of the fireworks on Delerium
> interfering with my necro's curses. Also, Guillaume's Face has more
> than 35% CB, it also has 15% Deadly Strike (chance to do double
> damage), Faster Hit Recovery (never bad) and +15 str. Also, what I'm
> not sure of: is CB damage also 'routed' through the Leech routine? If
> it is, then that's a big chunk of damage done, and converted to life.

Harlequin Crest also is an option. +2 skills and damage reduction is never
>
> I do have one helmet that might be an option: Andariel's Visage. But
> before I equip that, I should maybe make a comparison between the
> effects of Guillaume's Face's mods vs the +2 skills of Andariels
> Visage (+2 to te merc's might aura).

Andy's also has 20%IAS! Socketed with an IAS jewel, that's already 35%IAS.
>
>>You could always swap helmets when going against a boss..
>
> Well, not only am I maximising damage, I also want to minimise
> 'inconvenience', so that's why I try to find a nice optimum. Also,
> since Hell Baal is regularly on the menu, the 95% CB of the above
> setup is quite nice to have.
>

I dunno how "rich" you are, but how about a FORTITUDE armor? You'd lose
the 15%CB from Duress, but 300%ED would double the damage output of your
merc..

Regards,

Oliver

G

#### Guest

##### Guest

In article <d44j6p\$6lg\$03\$2@news.t-online.com>,
Oliver Wenzel <ouuch@t-online.de> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Patrick Vervoorn <patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote in
>news:64e93\$4265844d\$82a1d3bf\$28195@news2.tudelft.nl:
>
>> Hmm, yeah, you're right of course. And I forgot about the leech
>> penalty in NM and Hell. (See other post).
>
>yeah, very good that he mentioned the penalty. So, it's still a matter of
>experimenting to see how much life leech is enough.

Yep. I'll put this on the menu once I've replenish my supply of Amns.

>> Well, as I've explained before, I'm wary of the fireworks on Delerium
>> interfering with my necro's curses. Also, Guillaume's Face has more
>> than 35% CB, it also has 15% Deadly Strike (chance to do double
>> damage), Faster Hit Recovery (never bad) and +15 str. Also, what I'm
>> not sure of: is CB damage also 'routed' through the Leech routine? If
>> it is, then that's a big chunk of damage done, and converted to life.
>
>Harlequin Crest also is an option. +2 skills and damage reduction is never

It's nice, but not used on a merc often. It would perhaps be a nice spot
to 'park' an ethereal Harlequin's Crest though.

>> I do have one helmet that might be an option: Andariel's Visage. But
>> before I equip that, I should maybe make a comparison between the
>> effects of Guillaume's Face's mods vs the +2 skills of Andariels
>> Visage (+2 to te merc's might aura).
>
>Andy's also has 20%IAS! Socketed with an IAS jewel, that's already 35%IAS.

Yup, definately an option...

>> Well, not only am I maximising damage, I also want to minimise
>> 'inconvenience', so that's why I try to find a nice optimum. Also,
>> since Hell Baal is regularly on the menu, the 95% CB of the above
>> setup is quite nice to have.
>
>I dunno how "rich" you are, but how about a FORTITUDE armor? You'd lose
>the 15%CB from Duress, but 300%ED would double the damage output of your
>merc..

Yes, very nice, but I only have 1 Lo. However, since the intended user (a
Fanatic Zealot) is not going along that quickly, I'm probably going to
make the Fortitude pretty soon, and will park it on the necro's merc
when/until the Paladin reaches the right level.

Regards,

Patrick.