Host 192 Test

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Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I need some testers to test a new host, the combat code should be
better. Objects have been slowed down so they are not jumping all over
the place.

The new host sits at:
http://homepage.mac.com/ti2gr/.Public/host192.exe

New stuff included:

Exotics like energized sand and sand shields no longer are 100%
effective.

Sand Casters toned down in power against fighters.

A bad ship transporter error was fixed.

Glory Device only BBQ's 15,000 worms a blast.

Spice producion by worms reduced.

Base ION Cannons only work if the shields are turned off.

Base ION Cannons use 10 ord per shot, instead of just 1 ord

The bug that causes robot fighters to vanish has been fixed.

Ships with a hull mass over 690 have improved PD systems, ships with a
hull mass over 1200 have an improved PD system and ships with a hull
mass over 1800 have an even better PD system

Comments welcome.

Tim
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

That PD boost is to compensate the increased fighter power. Any
solution should not result in having to change race packs!
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Especially the IC change I find most interesting. It is however not
enough to completely remove the "Avoid Base" functionality, yet! ICs
are a killer and finish even capital ships very quickly. When trying to
destroy a base I assume it would be very very expensive if the ICs
fire!

For now it would be ok to remove the "Avoid Base" switch - if the
"Ground Attack" takes over the same functionality, just like the
fighters currently do. Meaning if you have "Groudn Attack" switched off
it is the same as currently with "Avoid Base" on and vice versa.

I'm happy with the SC immunity no longer being 100%. It was much
cheaper for a fighter race to negate the defenders ETs, which I
considered to be unbalanced.
A) Fighter race (total 675k initial, 25k maintenance):
SC immunity = 75k initial, 5k maintenance
Fighter ECM Box = 600k initial, 20k maintenance
B) Non Fighter Race (total 690k initial, 90k maintenance):
Energized Sand = 240k initial, 70k maintenance
Anti-Fighter Computer = 450k initial, 20k maintenance
If one goes for the E SC only, after 10 turns it gets more expensive
than what the fighter race pays, due to the very high maintenance
costs. Only the AF computer alone would give the Non Fighter Race an
advantage, but it will take a painful long time until the SC immunity
has been bought and the AF computer gets affordable!
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

> Base ION Cannons only work if the shields are turned off.

There was a longstanding bug around which switched on the baseshield
under attack if it was actually switched off. Was never a problem
before, but might be now.

Someone else raised the question of Solorian baseshields (automatic at
10M colonists).

> Base ION Cannons use 10 ord per shot, instead of just 1 ord

Actually they never even used that 1 ord, another bug. I hope this got
foxed with this new feature 😉.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

First very quick and single test: Fighters move slower now and ships
have a chance again. This looks much better than host 190!
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Is the Robot Free Fighter bug fixed?

Is the Golem Hyper Space Network working (and how does it work)?
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Tim, or anyone else who can help,

in host 190 (or the misterious191?) have also been some changes.
You introduced this host with an special view on combat logic but I got
the impression that there have been more changes.

I am pretty sure that something changed in the contra market, which has
been under discussion on this bord shortly before 190 (191?) came out.

The question is if and where I could find any documentation of these
hostchanges.

For example there have been also a discussion about sweeping cloacked
minefields, which should work without generating a log message. Is such
a feature already implemented?

Your changes made in 192 host sound pretty good on the paper but I
haven't tested them right now. Looks like the Empire could get more
Evil these days.

Thanx for your time,

Loki
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Haven 't figured out the Golem thing, but...

Robots now get 1000 T1s, 333 T2s and 20 T3s, it no longer erases T1s
from turn to turn, and it reports it correctly in the log.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I like all of these changes, especially the point defense ones. Is it
possible to post a change/fix log for host 190? (sorry if it's out there
already and i missed it) No Host 191? Is that due to April Fools? 🙂

Eric


"cocomax" <cocomax@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1113455563.475203.189950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I need some testers to test a new host, the combat code should be
> better. Objects have been slowed down so they are not jumping all over
> the place.
>
> The new host sits at:
> http://homepage.mac.com/ti2gr/.Public/host192.exe
>
> New stuff included:
>
> Exotics like energized sand and sand shields no longer are 100%
> effective.
>
> Sand Casters toned down in power against fighters.
>
> A bad ship transporter error was fixed.
>
> Glory Device only BBQ's 15,000 worms a blast.
>
> Spice producion by worms reduced.
>
> Base ION Cannons only work if the shields are turned off.
>
> Base ION Cannons use 10 ord per shot, instead of just 1 ord
>
> The bug that causes robot fighters to vanish has been fixed.
>
> Ships with a hull mass over 690 have improved PD systems, ships with a
> hull mass over 1200 have an improved PD system and ships with a hull
> mass over 1800 have an even better PD system
>
> Comments welcome.
>
> Tim
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

>From a base log:
"...Insectoid nest builds 200000 new robots
Insectoid nest builds 2000 new type 1 fighters.
Insectoid nest builds 667 new type 2 fighters.
Insectoid nest builds 40 new type 3 fighters..."
*Cough* I would say that is way too much! For a single insectoid nest
that is an additional value of 18,990 MCs!

As I said before with 190: Make it only T1s. The number is negotiable,
but around 20 / nest seem ok. That is 100 MCs for free and surely not
unbalancing.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Yes, we need more documentation, Tim! All these undocumented changes
serve neither us nor you, as you would get bug reports and questions
for them.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

> Ships with a hull mass over 690 have improved PD systems, ships with a
> hull mass over 1200 have an improved PD system and ships with a hull
> mass over 1800 have an even better PD system

Thinking a bit more about this... exactly how are they improved? It
certainly gives a boost to the dreadnaughts out there, perhaps raising the
cost of these ships might be a good idea if the boost is very significant.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I don't like the Base ION Cannons only work if the base shield is
turned off. It's just one less reason to ever build a base shield. And
what about Solarian bases with more than 10 Million colonists?

I think the new 10 ord per shot to fire each Ion Cannon is enough.

What's the new % chance of an extoic sand shield working and what's the
new chance of the energized sand castor exotic blasting thru an exotic
sand shield (when the exotic sand shield is working)

What's the new worm spice production?

Details on how the PD systems are improved please. Do they fire faster
against everything [in which case does this help the PD needing only 1
tick to recharge] or are the getting increased chances of hiting
fiighters and incoming weapons feature?
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Oh yeah... I forgot about those increasingly menacing fighters. I look
forward to seeing them in action against these newly buffed ships.

"Sparrow" <e.kueper@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1113463141.342103.78500@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> That PD boost is to compensate the increased fighter power. Any
> solution should not result in having to change race packs!
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Not really tested anything with the new host yet except for a few
fighter ship battles.
And then how do you compute the fighter hitting the ship probability.
There seems to be a small problem with this.

It is actually very humeruos to consider that the viper seems to have
at least an equal hitting probability as the Ahir - eventhough the sum
of attack rating and beam accuracy is 100 points higher on the Ahir...
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I echo some of the concerns over the base shield change. This makes
bases much more vulnerable to attack. In addition, it changes the
balance so that the races that can not build base shields suffer less
of a penalty (relatively speaking). I think the races that can't build
base shields suffer this penalty for a reason.

I like most of the other changes.

I suspect that the crime/contra system still needs some tweaking.
Having a base that suddenly has almost 5000 crime rating just because
it was captured with a large contra storage doesn't seem right to me.

gm
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

EE type 1s have always been worth building as cannon fodder to protect
the more valuable and expense type 2s and 3s in the same wing.

Now they do more damage in their own right if there's enough of them to
absorp the losses.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

cocomax schrieb:
> New stuff included:
>
> Exotics like energized sand and sand shields no longer are 100%
> effective.

Sounds okay, but on which level they are now working ?

> Sand Casters toned down in power against fighters.

-Why do you make SCs as an Anti Fighter weapon weaker if you at the same
time the PD boost with the argument that fighters are to hard ? Don't
understand this is not logical IMHO.

> A bad ship transporter error was fixed.

Fixes are always good.

> Glory Device only BBQ's 15,000 worms a blast.

Can not say something to this points, no times used and have so no
expierence. But what I heared it maybe good.

> Spice producion by worms reduced.

How much ?

> Base ION Cannons only work if the shields are turned off.

Who decides if the shield shall sht down that the Cannons can be fire,
must the player do it a turn before and then the whole turn the shield
is off or how do it work. Or do it go off if the Cannons fire and the
next combat tick they are switched on again ?
With thge infos you give I can not say anything about it but I fear some
problems.
That's make the Base with Ion Cannoins more vulverable for attacks, this
counter the idea that Base with Cannons should be not so weak why you
changed the ower of Ion Cannons.

> Base ION Cannons use 10 ord per shot, instead of just 1 ord

Do now work the Base reserve level work correct / good ?
From my expierence a new build ship get full or zero Ord loaded
depending if there is enough for a full load on the Bases and not
respect the reserve level. But this behavior may steal the Ion Cannons
the Ord they need so that they can not fire.
BTW the inital ord load on new build ships is idotic, this all or
nothing behaviour. One ship get all ord and the others nothing. Better
IMO is to split it, say each ship can get up to (Ord on the
Base)/(1+#new build ships) and then same Ord is left on the Base for
defence. Or use a % formula depending on the Ord hold of the ships, but
don't forget that the Base may need some ord too.

Other problem maybe, in older times the Cannons fire on ships which are
immune by ET and now they will use up their ord by such an idiotic doing.

> The bug that causes robot fighters to vanish has been fixed.

Can nothing say t o it, if you think the Robo need an upgrade then you
give it to them. But how does it work or how is the output ?

> Ships with a hull mass over 690 have improved PD systems, ships with a
> hull mass over 1200 have an improved PD system and ships with a hull
> mass over 1800 have an even better PD system

IMHO wrong way.

Some races get no or only a very small benefit from it and it counters
their "advanteges" sometimes (Lizie, no ship with enough mass, FED only
1 ship over the boarder, Coalition = RCS 0 ships, Pirat 0 ships ...).
Say the Coalition had in old time the advantage that they have the
Target Enhancer on some of their ships which makes the PDS better, this
is now lower compared to other races cause they do not benefit from the
new rule. They don't have any ship with over 750 KT hull mass.
Other races which used swarms of cheap ships to defence against fighter
can not profit from it to, so they may get problems.
Other races with many ships over this limit, say the Peeps, EE, Robo
(one more help for them) .. are now powerfuller against fighter.

This give an new balance in the game and I'm not sure if they are wanted
or good.

> Comments welcome.

You wanted comments and I do some.

Do you ever think about going back a step instead to make a new rule /
change to counter the last change you made ?
IMHO the old rules befor the changes on the combat behaviour started
where good enough (think befor host 17x).
If I used ENOUGH Ion Cannons (over 500) they made a good work for me
except the enemy buy the immunity. So I have never understand the
complains about that the Cannons are useless, what had the complainer
expect with say 20 Cannons worth 6000 MCs and some sups against a
Dreadnought maybe worth over 80000 MC.

For me we should go back to the old rules and can from this point on
implement some but NOT ALL from the new rules which came in the meantime.

Bye-Bye JoSch.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

And what are you dreaming at night?

"Loki" <loki.net@gmx.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1113484145.586177.204140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Tim, or anyone else who can help,
>
> in host 190 (or the misterious191?) have also been some changes.
> You introduced this host with an special view on combat logic but I got
> the impression that there have been more changes.
>
> I am pretty sure that something changed in the contra market, which has
> been under discussion on this bord shortly before 190 (191?) came out.
>
> The question is if and where I could find any documentation of these
> hostchanges.
>
> For example there have been also a discussion about sweeping cloacked
> minefields, which should work without generating a log message. Is such
> a feature already implemented?
>
> Your changes made in 192 host sound pretty good on the paper but I
> haven't tested them right now. Looks like the Empire could get more
> Evil these days.
>
> Thanx for your time,
>
> Loki
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Ok this one looks much better, though I haven't found a way to kill one Cube at equal costs with tech level 6 or smaller Scav
ships...

Would you be so kind and fix the unbalancing new free fighter rule for Bots?

Thanks in advance.

GFM GToeroe

"cocomax" <cocomax@aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1113455563.475203.189950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I need some testers to test a new host, the combat code should be
> better. Objects have been slowed down so they are not jumping all over
> the place.
>
> The new host sits at:
> http://homepage.mac.com/ti2gr/.Public/host192.exe
>
> New stuff included:
>
> Exotics like energized sand and sand shields no longer are 100%
> effective.
>
> Sand Casters toned down in power against fighters.
>
> A bad ship transporter error was fixed.
>
> Glory Device only BBQ's 15,000 worms a blast.
>
> Spice producion by worms reduced.
>
> Base ION Cannons only work if the shields are turned off.
>
> Base ION Cannons use 10 ord per shot, instead of just 1 ord
>
> The bug that causes robot fighters to vanish has been fixed.
>
> Ships with a hull mass over 690 have improved PD systems, ships with a
> hull mass over 1200 have an improved PD system and ships with a hull
> mass over 1800 have an even better PD system
>
> Comments welcome.
>
> Tim
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

I'd like to see T2s and T3s also made by nests. Extra T1s is like.. um, ok,
sure, thank you insectioid. T1s are so cheap that free ones in addition are
not much of a bonus at all. I do agree though that that many extra fighters
is alot, however, what is that base's population colonist and insectoid
wise?

"Sparrow" <e.kueper@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1113485171.799308.273790@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> >From a base log:
> "...Insectoid nest builds 200000 new robots
> Insectoid nest builds 2000 new type 1 fighters.
> Insectoid nest builds 667 new type 2 fighters.
> Insectoid nest builds 40 new type 3 fighters..."
> *Cough* I would say that is way too much! For a single insectoid nest
> that is an additional value of 18,990 MCs!
>
> As I said before with 190: Make it only T1s. The number is negotiable,
> but around 20 / nest seem ok. That is 100 MCs for free and surely not
> unbalancing.
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Tim, can you clarify why you aren't using the normal website please? I
am confused as to the status of Host 190-192, and wondering what's going
to happen to the documentation there etc.

Thank you,

Paul Honigmann



>A bad ship transporter error was fixed.

I'd be interested in more details on that, I have often suspected
transporter weirdnesses were occurring...



>Base ION Cannons only work if the shields are turned off.

Don't think that's a good idea. Shields are already too weak (too
vulnerable). I don't think fighters should be able to fire through them,
for example; there are several other ways to attack bases, ranging from
HD Stress through ground combat to crime / chupanoid starvation causing
riots and population meltdown.



>Ships with a hull mass over 690 have improved PD systems, ships with a
>hull mass over 1200 have an improved PD system and ships with a hull
>mass over 1800 have an even better PD system

I'm going to do some testing on that one to see if some hulls are TOO
good at defending now! What should we be looking for - simply an
increased rate of PD fire?
--
Paul Honigmann
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Whataguy2000 comments

>I suspect that the crime/contra system still needs some tweaking.
>Having a base that suddenly has almost 5000 crime rating just because
>it was captured with a large contra storage doesn't seem right to me.

Maybe your enemy has discovered a new form of attacking you - let's call
it the Poisoned Chalice Strategy
--
Paul Honigmann
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.vgaplanets4 (More info?)

Observations with new Host 192 and combat:

(1) I thought I saw a ship being blown up by its own side. It was
already heavily damaged and was between two ships (one, call it ship A,
on its own side, the other being fired at by ship A). It looked like the
ship-which-was-blown-up got in the way and was hit by ship A's photon
torps. Is it now possible to accidentally fire on your own side? If so,
nice touch, I like it. Adds realism. (I imagine it was just zapped by
the third ship though, it could have been hit by just a single shot from
a beam which I may not have seen.)

(2) Ramming is still very effective for high mass ships. It would be
nice, by the way, for the VCR report to mention Ramming-hits along with
other attacks.

(3) Large weapon knockback is effectively gone now. Even an Ionic Gun
Array doesn't have any visible effect. That might be a tad too toned
down.

(4) VCR "Report" screen still very poor layout. Typical report:
Four lines about SHIP: blah - this is actually the TARGET ship but
there is no explanation / heading
Then no line break or anything it just merges into a report about
the actual ship being examined

Finally a line break

Then some stuff about return fire which is OK.

(5) Wings seem much better - performing much more like their stats imply
- than in last Host I played with, 189. Ie if you pay lots of money for
a wing of lots of cheap fighters, they actually do something now. Maybe
EE type 1's are worth building at last?
--
Paul Honigmann