How important is backward-compatibility to you?...

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Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

> ... and more importantly, Xbox360 will lack a HDD.


Who says? I thought there would be a couple versions, or an option to add a
mass storage device?
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

How important? Not very... because I know once the Xbox 360 gets
hacked and modded (and it *WILL*), that a "classic Xbox" emulator
for it will follow suit very quickly. 😉
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Backwards compatibility will not get people to buy a new console. Good
quality new games for the new console will. If there are only two or three
games at launch and there IS backwards compatibility, how will that cause
you to buy the new machine? You can play your current library on your
current machine and wait until more new games come out on the new machine
and it drops in price to get the new one.

And although I think someone mentioned it, backwards compatibility goes back
to the days of Atari too. If you remember, the Atari 7800 is backwards
compatible for almost all 2600 games, with a few exceptions for technical
reasons.

Cheers!

"qwerty" <qwerty@qwerty.com> wrote in message
news:425d00fe$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> How important? Not very... because I know once the Xbox 360 gets
> hacked and modded (and it *WILL*), that a "classic Xbox" emulator
> for it will follow suit very quickly. 😉
>
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Keith Schiffner wrote:
> "QUAKEnSHAKE" <QUAKEnSHAKE@webtv.net> wrote in
> message
> news:1369-425DA424-112@storefull-3151.bay.webtv.net...
>
>>Wont matter to me. I wont buy xbox2 anytime
>>soon after its release. I
>>dont feel the gaming is going to change in leaps
>>and bounds from xbox1
>>to xbox2 anyways. Like it did for me going from
>>N64 to xbox.
>
>
> Agreed on that point. I'll wait until the intro
> price calms down a bit...if I could wait until
> last summer to get an XBOX I can wait at least
> that long for what ever the hell they are calling
> the new one. <grump> I'll be laughing my ass off
> if everyone's speculation on the naming is OFF.

Has anybody heard rumors about what the price points are going to be for
the next gen machines?
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Grinder" <grinder@no.spam.maam.net> wrote in message
news:fqj7e.12560$GJ.2666@attbi_s71...
>
> Has anybody heard rumors about what the price points are going to be for
> the next gen machines?

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8035/3-Million-Xbox-360s-by-December-at-249299/
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Khee Mao" <big_bad_buddha_daddy@yahoo.com> wrote
in message
news:d3khbf$rme$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
>
> "Grinder" <grinder@no.spam.maam.net> wrote in
> message news:fqj7e.12560$GJ.2666@attbi_s71...
>>
>> Has anybody heard rumors about what the price
>> points are going to be for the next gen
>> machines?
>
> http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8035/3-Million-Xbox-360s-by-December-at-249299/

Hmm, remember kids these are rumors for now. I
wont TRY to remember WHAT the old Atari 2600 and
or 5200 went for new on the first day of sales.
--
Keith Schiffner
Assistant to the Assistant Undersecretary of the
Ministry of Silly Walks.
"terrorist organization" is a redundancy
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Khee Mao" <big_bad_buddha_daddy@yahoo.com> wrote
in message
news:d3khbf$rme$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
>
> "Grinder" <grinder@no.spam.maam.net> wrote in
> message news:fqj7e.12560$GJ.2666@attbi_s71...
>>
>> Has anybody heard rumors about what the price
>> points are going to be for the next gen
>> machines?
>
> http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8035/3-Million-Xbox-360s-by-December-at-249299/

FINALLY got to looking at that. Interesting, I'm
thinking like the Goldman-Sachs guys...if we are
right maybe I ought to get a job doing
prognostication of future releases of hardware.
;^)
--
Keith Schiffner
Assistant to the Assistant Undersecretary of the
Ministry of Silly Walks.
"terrorist organization" is a redundancy
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Keith Schiffner" <schistan@3rivers.net> wrote in message
news:8aedncz7qoAsV8DfRVn-sQ@vnet-
>> http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8035/3-Million-Xbox-360s-by-December-at-249299/
>
> Hmm, remember kids these are rumors for now. I wont TRY to remember WHAT
> the old Atari 2600 and or 5200 went for new on the first day of sales.
> --
> Keith Schiffner
> Assistant to the Assistant Undersecretary of the Ministry of Silly Walks.
> "terrorist organization" is a redundancy
>

$299 has been an historically reliable launch price, though I'd be surprised
to see the 360 this inexpensive due to its capabilities as a media hub.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Khee Mao" <big_bad_buddha_daddy@yahoo.com> wrote
in message
news:d3ki51$s87$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
>
> "Keith Schiffner" <schistan@3rivers.net> wrote
> in message news:8aedncz7qoAsV8DfRVn-sQ@vnet-
>>> http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8035/3-Million-Xbox-360s-by-December-at-249299/
>>
>> Hmm, remember kids these are rumors for now. I
>> wont TRY to remember WHAT the old Atari 2600
>> and or 5200 went for new on the first day of
>> sales.
>> --
>> Keith Schiffner
>> Assistant to the Assistant Undersecretary of
>> the Ministry of Silly Walks.
>> "terrorist organization" is a redundancy
>>
>
> $299 has been an historically reliable launch
> price, though I'd be surprised to see the 360
> this inexpensive due to its capabilities as a
> media hub.

Agreed...but I wont be surprised at a price
comparable to a low end new computer.
--
Keith Schiffner
Assistant to the Assistant Undersecretary of the
Ministry of Silly Walks.
"terrorist organization" is a redundancy
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Khee Mao wrote:
> "Keith Schiffner" <schistan@3rivers.net> wrote in message
> news:8aedncz7qoAsV8DfRVn-sQ@vnet-
>
>>>http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8035/3-Million-Xbox-360s-by-December-at-249299/
>>
>>Hmm, remember kids these are rumors for now. I wont TRY to remember WHAT
>>the old Atari 2600 and or 5200 went for new on the first day of sales.
>>--
>>Keith Schiffner
>>Assistant to the Assistant Undersecretary of the Ministry of Silly Walks.
>>"terrorist organization" is a redundancy
>>
>
>
> $299 has been an historically reliable launch price, though I'd be surprised
> to see the 360 this inexpensive due to its capabilities as a media hub.
>
>

That is the number I would bet on right now...
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Keith Schiffner" <schistan@3rivers.net> wrote in message
news:wKGdnXb_Y82lTsDfRVn-pg@vnet-inc.com...
>
> "Khee Mao" <big_bad_buddha_daddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> $299 has been an historically reliable launch price, though I'd be
>> surprised to see the 360 this inexpensive due to its capabilities as a
>> media hub.
>
> Agreed...but I wont be surprised at a price comparable to a low end new
> computer.
> --

errrr...a new low end computer costs about $300...


http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/desktops?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Khee Mao" <big_bad_buddha_daddy@yahoo.com> wrote
in message
news:d3kkkj$u2v$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
>
> "Keith Schiffner" <schistan@3rivers.net> wrote
> in message
> news:wKGdnXb_Y82lTsDfRVn-pg@vnet-inc.com...
>>
>> "Khee Mao" <big_bad_buddha_daddy@yahoo.com>
>> wrote in message
>>> $299 has been an historically reliable launch
>>> price, though I'd be surprised to see the 360
>>> this inexpensive due to its capabilities as a
>>> media hub.
>>
>> Agreed...but I wont be surprised at a price
>> comparable to a low end new computer.
>> --
>
> errrr...a new low end computer costs about
> $300...
>
>
> http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/desktops?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

Yes but that is a Dell...I'm still burnt on Intell
chips after the first Celeron's kept cooking
themselves. 8^) Anyway I'm not sure that a
computer like that could render as well as the
current Xbox. I don't know as I haven't checked
out computers in a while. Well not for that kind
of ability...
--
Keith Schiffner
Assistant to the Assistant Undersecretary of the
Ministry of Silly Walks.
"terrorist organization" is a redundancy
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

atarileaf wrote:

> Backwards compatibility will not get people to buy a new console.

It will for someone like me. Why? Because I know that the next Xbox
will get modded, and when it does, all my old Xbox games will work with
it (thanks to backwards compatibility), AND I'll get the added benefit
of better emulation (due to the newer CPU, graphics card, etc) of things
like MAME and Frodo. 😉 I for one am looking forward to it.

> If there are only two or three games at launch and there IS backwards
> compatibility, how will that cause you to buy the new machine?

Because the new machine will obviously have a faster CPU and graphics,
which in turn will enhance all the older games that already exist.
That is, the frames-per-second of the older games will be enhanced,
if nothing else. Faster CPU = better gaming, ALWAYS.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"qwerty" <qwerty@qwerty.com> wrote in message
news:425dbffe$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

> Because the new machine will obviously have a faster CPU and graphics,
> which in turn will enhance all the older games that already exist.
> That is, the frames-per-second of the older games will be enhanced,
> if nothing else. Faster CPU = better gaming, ALWAYS.

Not in the console world. Backward compatibility is rare in consoles, but
the ones that do it have NEVER offered better performance for the last-gen
games. GBA doesn't run Game Boy games better, nor does the DS offer
framerate improvement in GBA games. PS1 games on a PS2 still perform just
as badly as they did on PS1. The PS2 does have the "fast load" and "smooth
texture" options, but they usually do nothing, and sometimes cause crashes
or graphical glitches.

Even emulators rarely benefit from faster CPUs, above what's necessary to
run them properly in the first place. They usually emulate slowdown, etc
along with everything else, so performance gain does nothing.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

atarileaf wrote:

> You can play your current library on your current machine and
> wait until more new games come out on the new machine

That's a silly argument. That's like saying, "Why upgrade your
PC if your current PC runs all your current software?". :)
Everyone with a brain knows that a faster machine will run the
current old software in a more efficient and enjoyable way.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Khee Mao wrote:
> "Thoth" <thoth@notlisted.us> wrote in message
> news:W0Z6e.6805$EX4.5840@fed1read01...
>
>>"Khee Mao" <big_bad_buddha_daddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:d3hguj$jg3$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
>>
>>>"Jordan" <lundj@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>news:1113343554.052776.98390@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>>You already own an Xbox so backwards compatibility isn't an issue. Your
>>>>existing Xbox isn't going anywhere (unless you sell it.)<snip>
>>>>
>>>dude. the xbox service record hasn't been exactly stellar. dvd drives
>>>go bad. I'm already on xbox #2, others I know are on #3. then you
>>>factor in your living space and people (like me) who don't want the
>>>clutter of multiple systems, especially from the same manufacturer.
>>
>>That's a good point. I'm on number 3. I definitely don't have room to
>>put up a bunch of consoles in my living room. I've got my old Nintendo
>>consoles in bags in the closet.
>>
>
>
> at least the old Nintendos are all solid state game cartridges, they'll
> probably last forever as they don't have moving parts...my brother still has
> his Atari 2600 (?), which continues to work flawlessly.
>
>
speaking of room, the best thing you could do is get a SNES, Sega,
Genesis, Nintendo, and MAME emulator on that xbox which run those games
perfectly if not much better cuz you can do so many extra things such as
saving you game where ever you want :). I know I'll be holding on to the
box for media playback alone.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Khee Mao wrote:
> "Fizzlestix" <fizzlestix@metallica.com> wrote in message
> news:1113342290.057241.94440@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>>i have a decent sized collection of xbox games, and since the xbox is
>>the only system i own, if backward compatibility is not an option for
>>the next xbox, then i'll be content to play the games i have for many
>>years to come.
>>
>
> if your dvd drive lasts "many years".
>
>
I'm sure replacement DVD drives will still be around. Even if you
couldnt't get an "xbox dvd drive" (which is next to impossible) you
could use any regular old dvd drive.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Khee Mao wrote:
> "Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
> news:115r3d9e74l5f2a@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>Stephen Edwards <tg416@cyclic.aux.net> wrote:
>
>
>>While there's still a chance that the Xbox360 could still be backwards
>>compatible, I really wouldn't bank on it. Adding the hardware would make
>>XBox360 very expensive, and the Xbox360's native hardware isn't nearly
>>powerful enough to handle an Xbox emulated in software.
>
>
>
> I can't imagine 3, 3ghz powerpc chips not being up to the task of emulating
> a 733mhz celeron...
>
>
I can, if it's not done by MS. Crude emulation takes up ALOT of overhead!
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

HockeyTownUSA wrote:
>>... and more importantly, Xbox360 will lack a HDD.
>
>
>
> Who says? I thought there would be a couple versions, or an option to add a
> mass storage device?
>
>
yup, there is supposed to be 2 or 3 variants with some scaled (or full)
version of MCE running on those higher end ones.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Khee Mao wrote:
> "Grinder" <grinder@no.spam.maam.net> wrote in message
> news:fqj7e.12560$GJ.2666@attbi_s71...
>
>>Has anybody heard rumors about what the price points are going to be for
>>the next gen machines?
>
>
> http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8035/3-Million-Xbox-360s-by-December-at-249299/
>
>
250 to 300, thats not bad at all....prolly 300 or a little bit more for
the better "apped" variant.....chump change :)
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Keith Schiffner wrote:
> "Khee Mao" <big_bad_buddha_daddy@yahoo.com> wrote
> in message
> news:d3kkkj$u2v$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
>
>>"Keith Schiffner" <schistan@3rivers.net> wrote
>>in message
>>news:wKGdnXb_Y82lTsDfRVn-pg@vnet-inc.com...
>>
>>>"Khee Mao" <big_bad_buddha_daddy@yahoo.com>
>>>wrote in message
>>>
>>>>$299 has been an historically reliable launch
>>>>price, though I'd be surprised to see the 360
>>>>this inexpensive due to its capabilities as a
>>>>media hub.
>>>
>>>Agreed...but I wont be surprised at a price
>>>comparable to a low end new computer.
>>>--
>>
>>errrr...a new low end computer costs about
>>$300...
>>
>>
>>http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/desktops?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
>
>
> Yes but that is a Dell...I'm still burnt on Intell
> chips after the first Celeron's kept cooking
> themselves. 8^) Anyway I'm not sure that a
> computer like that could render as well as the
> current Xbox. I don't know as I haven't checked
> out computers in a while. Well not for that kind
> of ability...


u didn't say what "brand" of low end pc did you? :),

Render as good as the xbox? I'm sure it wouldnt with shared onboard
video memory, you'd be lucky if it played anything new.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"theOne" <theOneOne@dodgeit.com> wrote in message
news:Fmv7e.3852$bc2.102@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> Keith Schiffner wrote:
>> "Khee Mao" <big_bad_buddha_daddy@yahoo.com>
>> wrote in message
>> news:d3kkkj$u2v$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
>>
>>>"Keith Schiffner" <schistan@3rivers.net> wrote
>>>in message
>>>news:wKGdnXb_Y82lTsDfRVn-pg@vnet-inc.com...
>>>
>>>>"Khee Mao" <big_bad_buddha_daddy@yahoo.com>
>>>>wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>>$299 has been an historically reliable launch
>>>>>price, though I'd be surprised to see the 360
>>>>>this inexpensive due to its capabilities as a
>>>>>media hub.
>>>>
>>>>Agreed...but I wont be surprised at a price
>>>>comparable to a low end new computer.
>>>>--
>>>
>>>errrr...a new low end computer costs about
>>>$300...
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/desktops?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
>>
>>
>> Yes but that is a Dell...I'm still burnt on
>> Intell chips after the first Celeron's kept
>> cooking themselves. 8^) Anyway I'm not sure
>> that a computer like that could render as well
>> as the current Xbox. I don't know as I haven't
>> checked out computers in a while. Well not for
>> that kind of ability...
>
>
> u didn't say what "brand" of low end pc did you?
> :),

Touche`

> Render as good as the xbox? I'm sure it wouldnt
> with shared onboard video memory, you'd be lucky
> if it played anything new.

Perzacktly! There are some REALY nice video boards
out there...but $400-$500+ bones for one just
isn't for me. I'm so cheap I use BOTH side of the
TP!
--
Keith Schiffner
Assistant to the Assistant Undersecretary of the
Ministry of Silly Walks.
"terrorist organization" is a redundancy
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

<snip>

Backwards-compatibility is so yesterday. I would be infinitely more
interested in forwards-compatibility.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Leon Dexter wrote:

> Even emulators rarely benefit from faster CPUs

What? Have you even PLAYED an emulator? Yes I know that there are
ways to limit the original game's speed to 100% but the extra CPU
grunt means you no longer have to skip frames, or reduce the sound
quality, etc. An emulated game on a 1 ghz PC feels totally different
(smoother, plays better, sounds better) to one on a 3 ghz PC -- I've
experienced it firsthand with many different emulators. Your comment
makes me feel as though you're not a diehard emulating enthusiast?
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"qwerty" <qwerty@qwerty.com> wrote in message
news:425df89f$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

> > Even emulators rarely benefit from faster CPUs
>
> What? Have you even PLAYED an emulator? Yes I know that there are
> ways to limit the original game's speed to 100% but the extra CPU
> grunt means you no longer have to skip frames, or reduce the sound
> quality, etc. An emulated game on a 1 ghz PC feels totally different
> (smoother, plays better, sounds better) to one on a 3 ghz PC -- I've
> experienced it firsthand with many different emulators. Your comment
> makes me feel as though you're not a diehard emulating enthusiast?


Thanks for deleting and ignoring the main part of my post. As for the rest,
I said "above what's necessary to run them properly". Emulation of the
older systems reached near-perfection years ago. If you're still missing
frames and lowering the sound quality on 2600/NES/Genesis/SNES games, for
example, something's wrong and it ain't your CPU speed.
And no, I'm not a "diehard" emulating enthusiast. I don't have to be, I'm a
real diehard gamer--I still own all the games I consider worth emulating,
outside of MAME anyway. I have emulators for a lot of systems, but mostly
as curiosities. If I want to play a game, I'll get it out and plug it in.
And I'll go buy it if necessary--which it's probably not.
 
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