how to effectively use switches, router/APs

[twin_chocolate]

I have home and several finished garages sprawling across my property. Most of the bldgs have metal siding. The house is lath/plaster.

The existing network inside the ISP modem/router is wired switches to connect (by wire) the multiple router/APs. All the switches are gigabit rated. After the modem/router (NetGear N450-100NAS, I have a mix of Cisco E2500 & TPLINK TL-WR1043ND. The TPLINKs are spec'd faster, so I have them in the zones with the most large graphic/video use.

My problem is that half my network is showing (speedtest.net) substantially lower speeds than the other. I do have a TPLINK in each "half".

I wish I knew how to upload a diagram, that would make it more clear.

I'm thinking I need to understand how the components work so I can effectively modify the configuration or relocate devices or upgrade components or ??

typical usage is 1-4 wifi devices per AP, though seldom more than 10 at any given time

 

[twin_chocolate]

I'll post Wifi Analyzer channel diagrams shortly ... to my inexperienced eyes they look a lot better than the "before" ones. I'll do them by Work Zone. First let me post my SpeedTest results. After changing the channels per Network Diagram RevA, I re-ran the speed check from specific work zones on specific networks.

For this test, I have HOME-1032 plugged via a short patch cord to the 8port switch @ G4, with the metal roll-up door open. Even with the metal bldg, I get illumination at the Music workzone. The two longest underground CAT6 runs are from the 5port TPLINK switch @CBN to 8port TPLINK @G4 & from 8port TPLINK @G4 to 4port Belden @ H2, so testing them seemed useful.

Initial results suggest to me that I may want to swap hardware, HOME-1084 & HOME-1032 ... this would allow HOME-1032 5 GHz in the crucial work zone with neighbor band-clutter, plus get the HOME-1084 hardware closer to the ground for further testing. If HOME-1084 hardware is bad, I may want to retire it, and replace both TL-1043ND with something more modern.

with the gateway router replacement last week, I had been generally thinking along the lines of placing it (HOME-1032) where shown on the diagram, and was rather hoping to eliminate the extender (Cisco57078). An alternative placement would be to locate it next to the 8port switch @G4, with physical device located in a rainproof box mounted on outside of bldg. If needed, the extender could plug into HOME-1032 and be physically located in the green shaded region.

SPEED TEST RAW RESULTS

Ookla speedtest on my Galaxy S5 measured:

Art Studio via HOME-1084 downlink 9.49 Mbps 9.64 Mbps uplink 10.16 Mbps 10.02 Mbps
the extender is plugged into this - does that slow this device down?
no, it doesn't - 11/23

Music Studio door via HOME-1032 downlink 33.35 32.50 uplink 12.58 11.40

Craft room via HOME-1044 downlink 22.02 28.51 uplink 12.49 12.28

CBN meeting room via HOME-1070 downlink 93.56 92.43 uplink 12.42 13.29

CBN at work table via HOME-1060 downlink 30.23 30.64 uplink 12.71 12.20

Gallery via HOME-1062 downlink 96.50 86.04 uplink 13.20 12.02

of these, with 200 Mbps service at the modem, the only one that seems outrageously slow is HOME-1084. anyone see something that my inexperienced eyes don't see?

I have some additional thoughts re HOME-1084 in the comments pertaining to Work zone Art Studio - wifi analyzer images below

 

[twin_chocolate]

before and after Channel Adjustment -- Work Zone MUSIC STUDIO

at the door, before adjustment, 2 images - radio clutter with collisions

after adjustment, at the door, 2 images - lots of neighbor radio clutter

in the room, two images, after adjustment - not so much clutter here
(I don't seem to have taken before pix for this)

looks good-now/improved to my inexperienced eye. Does not explain the low speeds measured on HOME-1084 (at least not to me yet)

 

[twin_chocolate]

before and after Channel Adjustment -- Work Zone ART STUDIO

one image before adjustment

three images after adjustment

There's lots of neighborhood clutter - I'm thinking along the lines of replacing the TL-1043ND called HOME-1084 with something capable of up to channel 14 (rather than 11) in 2.4 GHz, plus 5 GHz capable, and ???

I would like to understand, hopefully resolve whatever my last speed issue is. I wonder if I can reduce cable lengths with smart relocation of device physical locations? In particular I have a long cable + 20 ft cable to switch ... one router on a 1 ft cable, the other on a 50 ft cable. If I move the switch to where the coupler is, add an extension cord for power to the switch, I could remove the coupler and the 1 ft patch cable.

relocating this switch has identified the "slow zone" as the hardware for HOME-1084 (and it's patch cable). - 11/23

 

[twin_chocolate]

before and after Channel Adjustment -- Work Zone CRAFTS & COMPUTING STUDIO

one image before adjustment

two images after

I see that the Roku tracks whatever channel that HOME-1044 is on, but keeping HOME-1044 & HOME-1084 away (from each other and) from Channel 1 where the extender is seems to help a lot

 

[twin_chocolate]

before and after Channel Adjustment -- Work Zone OFC1

one before image

one image after

no real change but none needed nor expected

 

[twin_chocolate]

before and after Channel Adjustment -- Work Zone OFC2

one before image

two images after

no real change, none expected, but I've moved HOME-1060 and HOME-1062 off that cluttered Channel1 and away from each other. I have tentatively left HOME-1070 at 40 MHz bandwidth as no other wifi show on the Wifi Analyzer app

 

[twin_chocolate]

before and after Channel Adjustment -- Work Zone Conference Room

one before image

one image after

no real change, none needed or expected - again I've moved HOME-1060 off the crowed channel 1

 

[twin_chocolate]

before and after Channel Adjustment -- Work Zone Work Table

one before image

two images after adjustment

again no change noted or expected, but HOME-1060 and HOME-1062 are migrated off the cluttered Channel 1.

 

[kanewolf]

Using your phone in tablet (horizontal) mode is usually easier with WIFI analyzer. The channels have more pixels between them.

 

[twin_chocolate]

Using your phone in tablet (horizontal) mode is usually easier with WIFI analyzer. The channels have more pixels between them.

😉

I thought of that about 3/4 of the way through the "after" images. Wish I'd thought of it sooner : I could have left all the before images portrait & taken all the after images landscape & sorting this out would have been waaaay easier!

 

[twin_chocolate]

before and after Channel Adjustment -- Work Zone Glry & filing

two before images

seven after images

there is a lot of clutter which appears and disappears off the Wifi Analyzer ... it doesn't actually seem to be causing trouble with the workload in this location. It seems to be a good practice, however, to migrate HOME-1062 off the worst of the clutter - Channel 1 in particular, with chan 3 chan5 also.

It doesn't surprise me tremendously that stuff 30 dB down doesn't bother anything.

 

[kanewolf]

The standard choice of channels is 1, 6, 11 (in the US). Those are the three which don't overlap.

 

[twin_chocolate]

Summary of status - the channel sniffer seems to have helped me understand & correct the channel interference problems. With the exception of HOME-1084 not providing the service I am expecting in the Art Studio & Music Studio, I am pleased.

flattening to a single subnet scheduling pending - I think I have enough notes to do it.

I'd like to understand what is actually going on with the TL-1043ND named HOME-1084 ... after which I ought to be in good shape to make an educated decision (or question leading to a decision) regarding (a) which hardware to upgrade, and what to look for in replacements, and (b) best location to install HOME-1032. This will likely include relocating that switch which serves HOME-1044 and HOME-1084 to find out whether that will make a difference.

Possible uses for HOME-1032:
(a) flat replace the extender
(b) place in the diagrammed green shaded region, if that makes the extender obsolete by covering the missing coverage zone
(c) mount in rainproof plastic box near its current test location but outside the bldg, giving additional coverage (careful re channels) in the art/music studios, with the extender optionally run from IT (right now it is running from HOME-1084),
(d) like (c) except swap hardware of HOME-1084 & HOME-1032
(e) modify one of the above with best choice of location for upgraded hardware, likely retiring the TL-1043NDs

oh! reviewing the thread ... where in this investigation (meaning sequentially) is good for taking a break and puzzling out how to do firmware updates?

(irrelevant, as latest vendor firmware already on board)

 

[twin_chocolate]

alright ... poking into device specs regarding wireless protocol/speed ... am I looking in the right place?

other than a variety of iPhone & iPad models that I don't have handy (look up later)

multiple Samsung Galaxy S5 ... ( https://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-galaxy-s5-specs ) which specs say have 802.11b/g/n/ac capability

multiple Lenovos ... Yoga2 Pro and V560 ( https://www.cnet.com/products/lenovo-ideapad-v560-4342-15-6-core-i5-480m-windows-7-pro-64-bit-2-gb-ram-500-gb-hdd-series/specs/ ) ( https://www.cnet.com/products/lenovo-ideapad-yoga-2-pro/specs/ ) ... all of which list 802.11b/g/n capability

multiple Qosmio X500-S1801 ( http://mobilespecs.net/laptop/Toshiba/Toshiba_Qosmio_X500-S1801.html ) which lists 802.11n capability

does that tell me which devices are capable of 5 GHz band capability?

 

[twin_chocolate]

aha!!

802.11n specifies 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz!

does this mean one solution to my radio clutter, since *my* devices all are capable of 5 GHz, is to turn off the 2.4 GHz on *my* routers & APs???

 

[The Paladin]

if your devices can all do 5ghz I would turn off 2.4 yes
optionally you could like I have in my house nameSSID-24 and nameSSID-50 to differentiate 2.4 and 5.0 ghz bands
( I have laptops with only 2.4ghz on them unfortunately

 

[twin_chocolate]

if your devices can all do 5ghz I would turn off 2.4 yes
optionally you could like I have in my house nameSSID-24 and nameSSID-50 to differentiate 2.4 and 5.0 ghz bands
( I have laptops with only 2.4ghz on them unfortunately

I had that thought ... and for the routers capable of 5 GHz, created {old name}-5 SSIDs so I could see them ... alas, specs or no specs, the Qosmios don't see the 5 GHz SSIDs. The V560 Lenovos do, the Galaxy 5Ss do, the Yoga2 Pros do....

Took another walk-about with the Wifi Analyzer ... looks like the radio clutter near The Gallery is all 2.4 GHz ... the radio clutter near the Art/Music Studios is more in 2.4 GHz, some in 5 GHz (which makes sense as 2.4 GHz has greater range). I am puzzled that the

I think I'm still missing a piece of the puzzle which is impacting performance on HOME-1084 (one of the TL-1043ND, so not 5 G capable) ... I think next is wait for daylight & try moving that Belden switch. Maybe also try moving that Cisco extender off HOME-1084 to HOME-1044 as well, since I'll already be in the rafters.

Since HOME-1044 (a Cisco E2500) and HOME-1084 are both in those same rafters, swapping them is also a possibility. I just don't see a reason to climb a ladder to 14 ft rafters with nasty flickering fluorescents and no daylight backup.

Looks like the Roku is 802.11ac compliant ... so I could move it to the 5 GHz band, leaving the 2.4G available for the Qosmios....

 

[twin_chocolate]

The standard choice of channels is 1, 6, 11 (in the US). Those are the three which don't overlap.

Good to know

 

[twin_chocolate]

alright, supposing for the moment that after I figure out what is wrong with HOME-1084 that I as yet don't understand ... the conclusion is that replacing my two TL-1043ND is the best move. I can tell already that I'd want dual band capability, but I'm thinking 802.11n is temporarily 'fast enough' for the price now vs the soon-ness of replacement.

I've been reading
https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2398080,00.asp#

and amateur eyes suggest the following 3 might be suitable choices. What might I want to consider to select among them?
https://www.pcmag.com/review/346432/d-link-ac1200-wi-fi-router-dir-842
https://www.pcmag.com/review/349932/linksys-ea6350-ac1200-dual-band-smart-wi-fi-wireless-router
https://www.pcmag.com/review/352074/tp-link-archer-c7-ac1750-wireless-dual-band-gigabit-router

 

[twin_chocolate]

alright ... reading about specs of these things ... meaning hardware ... and trying to grok what they mean....

specs CG3000DV2 (Netgear):
after last 2 days, I understand that N450 means 450 Mbps (max) @ 2.4 GHz, single band
what does "with 8 downstream and 4 upstream channels, up to 340 Mbps" mean?

specs E2500 (Linksys):
so dual band (2.4 GHz & 5 GHz) at 300 Mbps (max) is labelled N600....

specs TL-1043ND (TP-LINK)
single band (2.4 GHz) at 300 Mbps (max)...



I guess where I am heading ... is some understanding of wired speed/bandwidth/capability and how the language/specs reflect that information ... with my physical layout, the modem & gateway do not need max WiFi capability, as the APs handle the heavy-hitters. But definitely could cause a bottle-neck if I don't understand what I'm reading.

 

[twin_chocolate]

a private convo

BassNote:

a good first step is to update the firmware on the nodes, especially the really slow one, as a last ditch effort before replacing.

TwinChocolate:

I've never done a firmware update ... so I have some questions ...

... do I need a RJ45 capable computer? does it make it easier? do I need to take the router offline to do it?

... the online folks point out that doing it wrong can result in router=brick ... okay, but not doing it means replace anyway, so that's not a huge concern ...

... obviously with my configuration, I'd swap routers first so the one I'm doing firmware updates on is closer to the ground ...

... I currently have a spare, so I'd put the spare in the rafters & firmware subject on the bench with no clients ...

... is it safest to push the "update firmware" button in the login via 192.168.x.1 menu or is there a safer way? is there a better way? perhaps not quite as safe but more options (like what) for WHAT firmware update?

BassNote:

Generally take the router rj45 to gateway ... login to router and tell it to update the firmware ... or you can tell router to update the firmware as it sits, might work.

Be prepared to re input proprietary information into the router.

TwinChocolate:

hmmm. am I confused?

lemme think. right now, the modem/router combo is the most recent box change (last week) ... so it probably doesn't need firmware update ATM ...

my problem is I don't currently have a portable RJ45 capable computer ...

ALL other routers are currently connected via WAN port & switches to LAN ports of gateway router ... so if that connectivity is appropriate ... I can log into specimen router & push "update firmware" button ... wherever vendor has hidden it, right?

BassNote:

Yes if there is a firmware button push it, if that doesn't work connect to Comcast box and retry

TwinChocolate:

gotcha

so I can try in-place (no clients, obviously) first, climb rafters second. I like that.

 

[twin_chocolate]

next:

(a) relocate switch per summary at bottom of http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3572005/effectively-switches-router-aps.html#20406050

(b) move the extender from HOME-1084 (the remaining ridiculously slow performing AP) to HOME-1044

(c) swap the HOME-1032 hardware with the HOME-1084 hardware

(d) reconfigure the Roku to access HOME-1044's 5 GHz band

re-measuring with Wifi Analyzer and Ookla speedtest after each step

(e) firmware updates

this is done except for the rafter walk (2mrw daylight) for (c) & investigation shows latest firmware already installed ... results below

 

[twin_chocolate]

I relocated the switch, no joy. (Ookla on 1084: 9.58 Mbps downlink 10.02 Mbps uplink)

Wifi Analyzer images show no significant change in the Crafts & Computing work zone. As expected. Just being thorough.

Wifi Analyzer images at the Art & Music studio work zone - again, just being thorough.
I don't see anything interesting - no significant change, no new problems/collisions, didn't really expect anything as I think those issues are tentatively resolved by my channel adjustments above.

I moved the extender from HOME-1084 to HOME-1044, no joy. (no extender : 9.62 Mbps downlink 9.94 Mbps uplink on HOME-1084; extender on HOME-1044, 9.51 Mbps downlink 10.30 Mbps uplink on HOME-1084)

Ran out of daylight to swap HOME-1032 hardware up & HOME-1084 down, so that and the firmware update will have to wait for another day.

Measuring at the Craft & Computing work zone, Ookla speed measurements are
HOME-1044-5 downlink 19.78 25.97 Mbps uplink 12.68 12.93 Mbps
Cisco extender downlink 22.14 20.54 Mbps uplink 12.53 12.51 Mbps
HOME-1044 downlink 19.56 19.55 Mbps uplink 12.55 12.76 Mbps
HOME-1084 downlink 9.49 9.52 9.69 Mbps uplink 10.05 9.93 10.46 Mbps

Measuring at the Music Studio
downlink 27.71 Mbps uplink 12.62 Mbps HOME-1032@G4
downlink 9.44 Mbps uplink 10.08 Mbps HOME-1084@H2
Measuring at the Art Studio
downlink 916 Mbps uplink 1023 Mbps HOME-1084 @ H2

Now that I have the extender "extending" HOME-1044 rather than HOME-1084, I suspect either the patch cable or the HOME-1084 box itself has a problem.

 

[twin_chocolate]

So much for firmware upgrade from the vendor ... a bit of web research tells me that (http://www.tp-link.com/us/download/TL-WR1043ND_V2.html#Firmware) is where I download TP-Link firmware for this model, and the most recent firmware version is already installed in both of these.

Once I get HOME-1084 out of the rafters & on the lab bench I think I'll try a factory reset, but I doubt it will do any good. It's just easy. I think I'll test it at the current location of HOME-1032 before I do that : that too is just easy to do.

Since I have locations which do not have the radio clutter, I could put it in one of those locations where I also don't need the high band width & take a bit of time to choose replacement hardware.

Another user-test will be finding out whether my high through-put users (I checked, all are 5 Ghz capable) can get enough bandwidth now if 5G capable hardware is put in those locations.

If that doesn't prove adequate - or perhaps I should say when that proves inadequate - I'll be retiring the two TL-WR1043ND in favor of capable hardware (& moving the new hardware to the bandwidth critical locations)

I suppose if putting HOME-1032 in HOME-1084's location continues to have bad thru-put at that location I'll be replacing that patch cable : as HOME-1044 is now getting reasonable-for-hardware speeds, the underground portion of the intranet seems sound.

 

[twin_chocolate]

It is the nature of the 2.4 GHz band to be very susceptible to moisture - meaning rain & fog - and the nature of the 5 GHz band to have less range. Coming into the winter season, where rain & fog are prevalent suggests migrating my high-throughput users to 5 GHz & leaving the Roku on 2.4 Ghz ... the longer range of 2.4 GHz suggests leaving all users on 2.4 (not all users are 5 G capable; the high-throughput users are 5 G capable) and migrating the Roku to 5 G. The Roku is the biggest single radio-clutter remaining.

Suggestions?