Question How to run IDE disks from SATA system?

aaad

Honorable
Oct 8, 2014
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Hi!

I would like to copy the content from a couple of older IDE hard disks to a newer SATA setup. I have mounted the disk using a IDE to SATA converter thing. If I start the PC in SATA mode (AHCI), the IDE disk don't show up. If I set it to IDE mode, the PC will not start at all...

I guess there is some bios settings that could solve the problem (?)

Any recommended settings here? (see pic from manual)
 

hang-the-9

Titan
Moderator
Hi!

I would like to copy the content from a couple of older IDE hard disks to a newer SATA setup. I have mounted the disk using a IDE to SATA converter thing. If I start the PC in SATA mode (AHCI), the IDE disk don't show up. If I set it to IDE mode, the PC will not start at all...

I guess there is some bios settings that could solve the problem (?)

Any recommended settings here? (see pic from manual)
You don't change BIOS options, that is for the boot disks. Did you read any of the instructions that came with the adapters as far as setting master/slave jumpers? That is probably the main thing that would cause them not to be seen.

I would not use those disks in anything once you get the files out, they are older, slow and would be way less reliable than new disks now, which are super cheap.

I have used products like this but they are not super reliable https://www.amazon.com/AGPtek-Drive-Adapter-Converter-External/dp/B00BIE996S/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw59n8BRD2ARIsAAmgPmIsZC-x3kDMac-tqblZtxATeZxXrPMTo9eewrwHNup2V2u5cSZyCVQaAh0dEALw_wcB&hvadid=177276648385&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9001809&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=3351966166839536353&hvtargid=kwd-1305243703&hydadcr=18885_9696298&keywords=ata+usb+adapter&qid=1603755237&sr=8-5&tag=googhydr-20

The better ones work better but are more expensive https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-FIDECO-Converter-5-25-Inch-DVD-ROM/dp/B077N2KK27/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw59n8BRD2ARIsAAmgPmIsZC-x3kDMac-tqblZtxATeZxXrPMTo9eewrwHNup2V2u5cSZyCVQaAh0dEALw_wcB&hvadid=177276648385&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9001809&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=3351966166839536353&hvtargid=kwd-1305243703&hydadcr=18885_9696298&keywords=ata+usb+adapter&qid=1603755319&sr=8-3&tag=googhydr-20
 

aaad

Honorable
Oct 8, 2014
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You don't change BIOS options, that is for the boot disks. Did you read any of the instructions that came with the adapters as far as setting master/slave jumpers?
Well, I'll look into it, but I would thing the disks is set as slave by jumper. I didn't get any manual. Cheap ebay stuff...
 

Paperdoc

Glorious
Ambassador
Well you made an assumption that is wrong, so maybe you can change this.

Any real IDE port can support up to two devices, so they need to be differentiated somehow. For that purpose every IDE device has a jumper pin set to choose between Master, Slave or sometimes Cable Select. Those terms are relevant ONLY to the particular port the HDD is connected to. There is NO such thing as a Master Drive for the entire computer. You assumed that, because you already have a SATA HDD as your BOOT device, it must be the Master in the computer, and hence the added IDE unit must be a Slave. Wrong.

Now, SATA does not do things that way - only one driver per port. The adapter board you got converts from a SATA connection to IDE and basically creates an IDE port for the old HDD to connect to. But like any other IDE port, it MUST have a MASTER device attached, and that is the ONLY device you can attach to that adapter board. So, set the jumpers on the old IDE drive to be the MASTER.

The matter of AHCI versus IDE Mode may be trickier. That was a work-around stuck into mobo BIOS's when SATA first arrived. At the time, the dominant OS was Win XP, and it did NOT come with a built-in driver for the new SATA devices that prefer to use new features in the AHCI protocol. There was a way to install new drivers for that, but the easier way many used was this little setting in BIOS Setup. If you choose IDE Emulation Mode for your SATA port, it limits that port to using ONLY the slightly limited set of IDE instructions and fools the OS into believing the HDD unit really is an IDE device, so it works. Some mobos had that setting available individually for each SATA port so you could set them differently, but most make that setting apply to all the SATA ports. That can cause what you saw. You have a SATA drive that has always been used as an AHCI device. If you then tell the port to treat it as an older IDE device, the OS is using the wrong driver and it won't work. So there are two possibilities yo can try with what you have. One is: look closely at where and how the IDE Emulation and AHCI Mode selections are made. IF you happen to have a mobo where they can be different on different SATA ports, set only the one for the old drive (with its adapter) to IDE Mode. Alternatively, set it to AHCI mode for all drives, and you will be able to boot. THEN look closely at the old IDE drive (assuming you have made the jumper change to Master) and see if you can READ it. If you can, I highly recommend you do NOT do any WRITE operations on it at all. Just copy everything you can from it.

If that still does not work, then you are back to getting a simple IDE HDD Dock that connects to your computer via USB. As RodroX has said above, that will not be affected by the IDE versus AHCI Mode thing. But I'm sure it also will want the drive's jumper to be set to Master.
 

aaad

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Oct 8, 2014
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THEN look closely at the old IDE drive (assuming you have made the jumper change to Master) and see if you can READ it. If you can, I highly recommend you do NOT do any WRITE operations on it at all. Just copy everything you can from it.

If that still does not work, then you are back to getting a simple IDE HDD Dock that connects to your computer via USB. As RodroX has said above, that will not be affected by the IDE versus AHCI Mode thing. But I'm sure it also will want the drive's jumper to be set to Master.
OK, I'll try changing the jumpers to master, and skip doing anything with the bios settings. If i doesn't work, I have an old IDE external USB HD-box I can use to mount the disks.

And as I understand, It's not an good idea using these disks permanently on a SATA-system....
 

Paperdoc

Glorious
Ambassador
You are right. It is NOT good to try to use an IDE unit on a system that has ONLY SATA ports. The problem, as I understand it, is restricting the use of the features of AHCI that are not part of the original IDE disk access protocols. In an older system I had, the mobo had both IDE and SATA ports. When a modern Windows (i.e., later than Win XP) is loaded on such a hardware set, it detects that both types of ports exist and loads two separate device drivers. One for PATA devices is associated with the IDE ports, and another for AHCI devices is loaded for the SATA ports. This is exactly the same as how the correct device drivers are loaded for each other port type detected. From then on, each driver uses only commands its device type can use. That system DOES work when both types of devices are installed on their respective ports.

However, if you have only SATA ports, the OS Install routine only loads the device driver for AHCI devices. If you then use a simple converter unit like the boards you got to allow an IDE device to attach to a SATA port, eventually the OS will issue to that device an instruction that the PATA system does not have, and the drive will return an error and cease to function. In a worst case, it MIGHT even try to do something it should not, and end up corrupting part of the HDD.

The work-around that many mobos have was the BIOS Setup option to use IDE Emulation on a SATA port. In essence it caused the ports to appear to be IDE ports so that the OS loaded and used the PATA device drivers. The AHCI drivers actually contain all of the PATA functions plus a few added ones, so this Emulation merely means those added features are not used, and either type of HDD device can work properly. But these days there are so few IDE units still in use that many mobos have stopped including those ports on the board and also do not offer the IDE Emulation option on any SATA ports. So such a system does not have any way to prevent the OS from issuing some of those "added" functions through a SATA port.
 

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