Question how to simplify attendance using google forms?

[Deleted member 2896149]

I have a csv file that has all the records of my students.

Can i use google forms to make taking attendance easy?

All they need to do is scan the QR code and just put in their id number in the google form and they will be marked present for the day?

Manual attendance takes 15 mins of class time which is too much. Our doors have attendance system but no one brings in their physical ID cards. Class is twice a week.

 

[Ralston18]

How big is the class? Just that it takes 15 minutes suggests a very large class.

The problem is very similar to the old timecard systems where workers could "punch" each other in or out.

If the real problem is the need to prove that student is truly present or not then the use of the existing attandance system needs to be enforced. *

Still students will give other students their physical ID card to beat the system.

Or find other ways to fake class attendance.

Also, consider that another attendance system via Google forms is just going to punish/impose on students who do use and follow the current attendance system rules. You could get some push back there. Even from the administration by having your own system.

Bottom line being that the problem needs to be addressed with respect to the current attendance system.

Escalate the problem. Talk with other instructors. Listen to students. Fix what is already in place.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

= = = =

*(Note: An administration that does not support such enforcement cannot hold instructors responsible for physical attendance per se. Students should be required to carry their physical ID cards when on campus. Security issue as much as anything else nowadays.

 

[Deleted member 2896149]

How big is the class? Just that it takes 15 minutes suggests a very large class.

The problem is very similar to the old timecard systems where workers could "punch" each other in or out.

If the real problem is the need to prove that student is truly present or not then the use of the existing attandance system needs to be enforced. *

Still students will give other students their physical ID card to beat the system.

Or find other ways to fake class attendance.

Also, consider that another attendance system via Google forms is just going to punish/impose on students who do use and follow the current attendance system rules. You could get some push back there. Even from the administration by having your own system.

Bottom line being that the problem needs to be addressed with respect to the current attendance system.

Escalate the problem. Talk with other instructors. Listen to students. Fix what is already in place.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

= = = =

*(Note: An administration that does not support such enforcement cannot hold instructors responsible for physical attendance per se. Students should be required to carry their physical ID cards when on campus. Security issue as much as anything else nowadays.

so no actual answer? lets forget about the scenario. do you have anything that will help? im doing it on excel sheets right now.

 

[Ralston18]

So you are currently taking attendance by "roll call" and then checking the student present or absent on the excel spreadsheet?

Correct?

Key is to know and understand the scenario: the process and actions that must be automated in some manner to meet the requirements.

There are "how to" links online regarding QR Codes and Google Forms.

How well those links will map to your requirements I do not know.

Or how well any given process will prevent students from being registered as "present" when the student is not really there. I do not know that either.

I do know that if students can find a loophole in the process then all will be for naught.

 

[Gam3r01]

Solution aside, all the students are going to do is send a photo of the QR code to their friends (or save it in their phone) and enter attendance over the form remotely. Even if you made a new code daily, it would be a hassle.
This is the system my university used: https://www.iclicker.com/study-tools-and-focus#attendance

 

[Deleted member 2896149]

So you are currently taking attendance by "roll call" and then checking the student present or absent on the excel spreadsheet?

Correct?

Key is to know and understand the scenario: the process and actions that must be automated in some manner to meet the requirements.

There are "how to" links online regarding QR Codes and Google Forms.

How well those links will map to your requirements I do not know.

Or how well any given process will prevent students from being registered as "present" when the student is not really there. I do not know that either.

I do know that if students can find a loophole in the process then all will be for naught.

I really just want an answer to make roll call a little easier. The students gain nothing from being there or not being there. It's not mandatory for the students, it is for the school though. Other teachers just do the roll call. They don't care about the 15 mins wasted. Why can't people just answer the question instead of finding flaws in the question. Every damn time.

 

[Ralston18]

Frustration noted:

There are no flaws in your question. Class attendence is an age old problem. Many people ( some educators included) have argued that attendence is moot and all that should be required is the abililty to pass exams. (I do not agree with that thinking overall but this is not the forum for such discussions per se.)

There are likely multiple solutions. However, there will be trade-offs no matter what for any given solution. Ideally there is some pre-scripted "turn-key" solution that would work right from the proverbial box.

Unfortunately, if that were true, someone would mention it. Or based on more information from you then recognize potential solutions that could work directly or with minor modifications. Repurpose some other system to achieve the required/desired results.

[Note: did you look at the link provided by @Gam3r01? Might be a good option. If not then explain why - pros and cons thereof.]

If the school is enforcing the roll call requirement by instructors what is the school getting from having roll calls? Especially if attendence is not mandatory for the students. Are you evaluated by how many students actually show up in class?

And if the school is not even enforcing the "ID card attendence" (security concerns aside) they are unlikely to support anything else unless it proves somehow valuable to the school. Do they really want to know who is really there or just need simple classroom body counts?

Increasing attendance is always a driving force for many schools. But that is often "campus/enrollment" versus seats in a lecture hall, classroom, or lab.

Understand that you care about the wasted time and that other teachers do not. Actually having enough in class time is always an issue.

What you need are allies: other teachers who feel as you do. Or maybe even some of the administrators. What do they suggest, what have they tried, how well or not, did it work?

Likely you will encounter "we tried that and it failed because ____ fill in the blank __". Often goes in circles....

= = = =

You have envisioned a solution using QR codes and Google forms. That solution may or may not work either technically or practically.

I do not know the full environment nor the overall situation. E.g., how big is your class, 1st year lecture hall, subject (that does matter), etc..

I do know that many, many good plans and efforts all falter and fail for all sorts of reasons.

What sort of school or uni do you teach at? (Rhetorical question and a specific answer is not needed nor being requested.)

Is there an IT Department with undergraduate or even graduate students? If so, there are always such IT students looking for a final project that allows them to apply the skills and knowledge that they have learned during their tenure as students.

Classic IT: Define the requirements, design a solution, code, test, document, implement. (Setting aside cost considerations - likely an issue.)

I have seen some students do quite surprising things with such projects.

Consider this solution: Set up a camera. 5 minutes after class lecture has started take a few photographs of the seating, apply facial recognition tools, and you will know which students are there and which students are not. + or - a few students.

The camera solution could be easily be easily implemented from a technical viewpoint.

However, politically, practically (not 100% accurate), privacy, costs, etc. a camera is not going to be popular at all. You may not even like it, @Gam3r01 may not like it. Truthfully, full disclosure, I do not like it either.

Propose that camera solution. I can already hear the screaming. Bet there is someone (or multiple someones) who will certainly love the idea.....

Overall not a technical problem. Deeper roots than that.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Why can't people just answer the question instead of finding flaws in the question. Every damn time.

Just a tip but maybe arguing with the people who are helping you FOR FREE on their own FREE TIME over the internet is a bit rude. Respect is compulsory here at Tom's Hardware.

 

[Deleted member 2896149]

Just a tip but maybe arguing with the people who are helping you FOR FREE on their own FREE TIME over the internet is a bit rude. Respect is compulsory here at Tom's Hardware.

I agree, but there are times where people forget what was asked and they start addressing other issues. Which is quite frankly both persons' time waste. It was a yes or no question. If you don't know dont answer. Why over complicate things by adding details which simply don't matter here. Isn't that the whole point of forums like this? and stack. We get answers of simplified questions. Since when did we try try to calculate behaviour of people.

 

[Deleted member 2896149]

Frustration noted:

There are no flaws in your question. Class attendence is an age old problem. Many people ( some educators included) have argued that attendence is moot and all that should be required is the abililty to pass exams. (I do not agree with that thinking overall but this is not the forum for such discussions per se.)

There are likely multiple solutions. However, there will be trade-offs no matter what for any given solution. Ideally there is some pre-scripted "turn-key" solution that would work right from the proverbial box.

Unfortunately, if that were true, someone would mention it. Or based on more information from you then recognize potential solutions that could work directly or with minor modifications. Repurpose some other system to achieve the required/desired results.

[Note: did you look at the link provided by @Gam3r01? Might be a good option. If not then explain why - pros and cons thereof.]

If the school is enforcing the roll call requirement by instructors what is the school getting from having roll calls? Especially if attendence is not mandatory for the students. Are you evaluated by how many students actually show up in class?

And if the school is not even enforcing the "ID card attendence" (security concerns aside) they are unlikely to support anything else unless it proves somehow valuable to the school. Do they really want to know who is really there or just need simple classroom body counts?

Increasing attendance is always a driving force for many schools. But that is often "campus/enrollment" versus seats in a lecture hall, classroom, or lab.

Understand that you care about the wasted time and that other teachers do not. Actually having enough in class time is always an issue.

What you need are allies: other teachers who feel as you do. Or maybe even some of the administrators. What do they suggest, what have they tried, how well or not, did it work?

Likely you will encounter "we tried that and it failed because __ fill in the blank ". Often goes in circles....

= = = =

You have envisioned a solution using QR codes and Google forms. That solution may or may not work either technically or practically.

I do not know the full environment nor the overall situation. E.g., how big is your class, 1st year lecture hall, subject (that does matter), etc..

I do know that many, many good plans and efforts all falter and fail for all sorts of reasons.

What sort of school or uni do you teach at? (Rhetorical question and a specific answer is not needed nor being requested.)

Is there an IT Department with undergraduate or even graduate students? If so, there are always such IT students looking for a final project that allows them to apply the skills and knowledge that they have learned during their tenure as students.

Classic IT: Define the requirements, design a solution, code, test, document, implement. (Setting aside cost considerations - likely an issue.)

I have seen some students do quite surprising things with such projects.

Consider this solution: Set up a camera. 5 minutes after class lecture has started take a few photographs of the seating, apply facial recognition tools, and you will know which students are there and which students are not. + or - a few students.

The camera solution could be easily be easily implemented from a technical viewpoint.

However, politically, practically (not 100% accurate), privacy, costs, etc. a camera is not going to be popular at all. You may not even like it, @Gam3r01 may not like it. Truthfully, full disclosure, I do not like it either.

Propose that camera solution. I can already hear the screaming. Bet there is someone (or multiple someones) who will certainly love the idea.....

Overall not a technical problem. Deeper roots than that.

Look Im really trying not to be rude. But, its hard when you are answering by not answer a simple yes or no question. If you didn't know google forms and excel why did you put in so much time in answering by worrying about other details.

 

[DSzymborski]

I agree, but there are times where people forget what was asked and they start addressing other issues. Which is quite frankly both persons' time waste. It was a yes or no question. If you don't know dont answer. Why over complicate things by adding details which simply don't matter here. Isn't that the whole point of forums like this? and stack. We get answers of simplified questions. Since when did we try try to calculate behaviour of people.

The volunteers here are not your employees. You don't get to demand answers in a particular format. You don't get to ban questions asked. You don't get to control the scope of the topic. And you certainly don't get to be constantly rude when someone disobeys your commands (I would hope you also wouldn't if they were your employees).

Since you refuse to engage in a productive manner, this thread is closed. If you start another thread (not on this topic), I hope you improve the manner in which you address others. I definitely hope this isn't how you interact with your students.

 

[USAFRet]

I agree, but there are times where people forget what was asked and they start addressing other issues. Which is quite frankly both persons' time waste. It was a yes or no question. If you don't know dont answer. Why over complicate things by adding details which simply don't matter here. Isn't that the whole point of forums like this? and stack. We get answers of simplified questions. Since when did we try try to calculate behaviour of people.

As a software developer for many years, I can say that asking questions is an integral part of getting to the right solution.

Something that works for an audience of 2 might not work for an audience of 100.

Q: "My current process is broken. Will SomeRandomThing fix my issue?"

A: "Give us some details. Volume, frequency, etc, etc. "

And researching the edge cases is a crucial part. If left unhandled, they might make things far worse than they are now.

ex: Your task time goes from 15 minutes to 2 minutes, but you end up with junk data that means absolutely nothing to anyone.

 

[Rogue Leader]

I agree, but there are times where people forget what was asked and they start addressing other issues. Which is quite frankly both persons' time waste. It was a yes or no question. If you don't know dont answer. Why over complicate things by adding details which simply don't matter here. Isn't that the whole point of forums like this? and stack. We get answers of simplified questions. Since when did we try try to calculate behaviour of people.

I disagree, you don't get to dictate how to solve the problem. And your question, particularly the usage of google forms is very vague in how it would operate. What you are asking would require design and configuration of forms, or excel, or whatever. There are many ways to do what you want to do. So do you really want a simple yes or no, or would you want people more knowledgable on the subject than you are provide you with a workable solution to your problem? I'll give you a hint, you don't get to decide and the folks on this forum pride themselves on getting it right for you the first time if possible.