How Will AMD stay alive?

[SpidersWeb]

If AMD runs out of technology to compete, you'll just see factory overclocking (well making the stock freq higher than usual), and adding more cores. They're just not that desperate.

It's never going to get to the end.

I'm an Intel guy, but the idea of AMD not being able to keep up is rediculous.
I haven't looked them up, but the key is to look at their profits, if they're above $1 you know they'll be going hard

(reason I'm an intel boy for those that are interested, is I grew up with raw Intels and stupid Cyrix chips that were overrated, now I feel dirty not using an Intel lol it's stupid but hey I'm happy with my super cheap E8500 @ 4.37Ghz stable)

 

[fazers_on_stun]

That should not be an issue at all since the next-gen GPU's will cover those cost's... I don't think AMD has an issue paying off that debt, they should be more worried about their CPU's selling in Q4 of this year....

Whoa dude!! The ATI division of AMD has made a profit exactly one quarter since AMD bought them several years ago - IIRC, the 1st quarter of this year, ATI graphics made a whopping $1 million. All the other quarters they've lost tens of millions of dollars. And these numbers don't include the interest AMD must pay on the acquisition loans.

So AMD paid $5.3 billion for ATI, has essentially written off the entire $5.3 billion purchase price as "goodwill impairment" (or else it means they donated it to Goodwill Industries ), and to date ATI has lost over a hundred million (in expenses > profits).

Even if AMD had 100% of the graphics market they wouldn't be able to turn $1.5 billion in profits in the next couple of years. They would be pleasantly surprised if the ATI division made $15 million in profits the next couple of years.

Intel has over half the graphics market with their 'crummy' IGPs, and AMD and nVdia just about split the rest, although AMD made some inroads last quarter.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Maybe this holds for a reader of this forum. Generally, it's a bit unworldly. As long as AMD lowers prices and as long as OEMs keep on rolling out AMD machines, people will keep buying them. The average consumer doesn't look at benches. CPU performance differences between Nehalem and K10 would have to be larger for the average consumer to notice.

The release of LGA 1156 is not even major news in the popular press. People like David Pogue prefer to write about the iPhone 3GS, the Palm Pre, digital cameras, Google voice, and Snow Leopard instead of looking at differences between the various incarnations of the Nehalem microarchitecture.

Agreed to some extent, although as I pointed out above, OEMs are not going to be happy having paid full price for their P2s and then having to lower their system prices or get stuck with inventory.

However, Microsoft and Intel will be advertising Windows 7 & the new Nehalems respectively & collaboratively, so the average consumer might get excited about these in time for the holidays. What I see is some economic improvement, pent-up demand, lots of ads and probably some big sales numbers next quarter.

 

[OvrClkr]

Whoa dude!! The ATI division of AMD has made a profit exactly one quarter since AMD bought them several years ago - IIRC, the 1st quarter of this year, ATI graphics made a whopping $1 million. All the other quarters they've lost tens of millions of dollars. And these numbers don't include the interest AMD must pay on the acquisition loans.

So AMD paid $5.3 billion for ATI, has essentially written off the entire $5.3 billion purchase price as "goodwill impairment" (or else it means they donated it to Goodwill Industries ), and to date ATI has lost over a hundred million (in expenses > profits).

Even if AMD had 100% of the graphics market they wouldn't be able to turn $1.5 billion in profits in the next couple of years. They would be pleasantly surprised if the ATI division made $15 million in profits the next couple of years.

Intel has over half the graphics market with their 'crummy' IGPs, and AMD and nVdia just about split the rest, although AMD made some inroads last quarter.

Well, im going by real numbers and what should happen if ATI regains control of the GPU market... For example if Nvidia goes downhill due to overpricing and renaming their current GPU's then that should be a huge gain for AMD/ATI.... Of course if this does not happen then NO, AMD/ATI will still be in a slump and eventually will have to figure something out before they hit rock bottom....

I doubt ATI will make less than 20 million with their next-gen cards... too many users/companies that have been waiting for this and IMO it looks good for ATI.....

Not that ATI will be able to pay of the debt right away but so far it is looking good for them.... we will just have to wait n see what happens.....

 

[rand_79]

I'm hoping I dont come across as an intel fanboy so I'd like to say up front
I owned a 386sx-20mhz intel ... then the last 9 computers were all amd.. until I build my latest one. When I was looking phenom's were a joke (in jan 08) and the q6600 was so much superior I could in no way justify an amd chip..

I was pricing out a full i7 920 setup (yesterday) with 24" monitor and it was only about 1300$
pretty loaded out without spending 500$ on a video card.

I priced a similar amd system and it was only 10% cheaper overall. Thats not enough to make me switch back to an inferior platform.

My 4-core q6600 overclocks rock steady a whopping 33% and I wont go back to amd until they have something that I think is superior to intels offerings.

also I had too much crap with cheezy raid chipsets on amd boards...

I have an abit p35 right now with a ich9r chipset thats downright amazing to my previous amd experiences.

Now this is from a long diehard amd fan.. I wont be going back until they produce something to make me go back.. Its going to have to be more than saving 50$


thats not to say I wouldnt build a 500$ system around amd..

but thats just not what I use..

Now around tax season when I replace my stepmom's 6 year old ecs k7s5a/amd 1500+ computer thats in dire need of going to the junkheap.

I will probably end up with amd.

Hopefully business like this will be enough to sustain them for the next 12-18 monthes until they have a chance of producing something as good as intel's top offerings.

Note: I'm not an amd or intel fanboy. More like a disguntled former fanboy who researches and goes with what is better at the purchase time.

 

[OvrClkr]

A couple of months ago you would have saved over 200$ ...... Another thing you have to consider is the fact that if you compare the 920 to the 955, they actually trade blows at stock clocks so basically it was a no-brainer to go with AMD.... Today everything changed with the 750, so now AMD has it's back to the wall and of course you would be better off with an i5 750 regardless of what you can save....

 

[sanchz]

ATI next gen graphic cards (DX11) seem promising. But nVidia will release their GTX 300 series in December, meaning AMD will only enjoy a 2 month time frame in which they can charge $400 for their high-end Radeon 5xxx cards.
As to Core i5, it just stole AMDs price/performance ratio, and price compression is AMD's only solution till Bulldozer comes out. I don't see where Athlon II Quad-Cores will fit here...
Anyway, AMD's bulldozer will be competing with SANDY BRIDGE, not Nehalem, so AMD must come up with something REALLY big...
I just hope AMD survives for the sake of competitive pricing and innovation...

 

[OvrClkr]

Hopefully Nvidia will have NEW hardware and no re-branding this time.... If not then Nvidia's future looks sketchy....

 

[rand_79]

A couple of months ago you would have saved over 200$ ...... Another thing you have to consider is the fact that if you compare the 920 to the 955, they actually trade blows at stock clocks so basically it was a no-brainer to go with AMD.... Today everything changed with the 750, so now AMD has it's back to the wall and of course you would be better off with an i5 750 regardless of what you can save....

I wasnt looking a couple monthes ago I bought 18 monthes ago..

and my q6600 at 3.2-3.6ghz is plenty for now.

I'll most likely upgrade no sooner than a year from now.


and you say trade blows at stock clocks but the intel overclocks at least twice as far as the amd and I am a mild to moderate OC'er I generally buy high end air cooling find the max I can push it to comfortably then back it off a couple notches.

So I would be comparing a ~~3.5- 3.6ghz intel to a 3.8 or 4.0 amd

Im not saying amd is bad. I'm just saying they dont really motivate me..

and I dont see the situation getting better (i5 etc mentioned)



Then again maybe they will susprise me and I'll buy amd for my next gaming rig.. I wont be making any decisions until purchase time.

same for nvidia or ati ( ive had both brands multiple times)


In the end whatever is purchased is so much better now I think we are all spoiled. I remember paying 400$ for an 8gig hd back in 1998 for example.

 

[OvrClkr]

and you say trade blows at stock clocks but the intel overclocks at least twice as far as the amd and I am a mild to moderate OC'er I generally buy high end air cooling find the max I can push it to comfortably then back it off a couple notches.

That is not true.... Regardless of what cooling method you use AMD has the record as far as quads go....

Intel has the record as far as single core CPU's go and INTEL and AMD trade blows in the dual core dept...

http://hwbot.org/hallOfFame.do?type=result&applicationId=13

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-Phenom-II-Overclocked,7747.html

 

[lashton]

I understand your point, what you have to realize is the fact that AMD no longer holds the price to performance bracket regardless what you can get the P II's for....

Microcenter is selling the 750 for 179.99... basically 10 bucks cheaper than the 955... So in all it would be a no-brainer to get your hands on the 750 regardless of what anyone says......

dude dont assume that where you live is the only place on earth, where i live the P2 is a hell of alot cheaper than the i5

 

[OvrClkr]

And where is that? A hell of alot cheaper? How much you pay for your 955?

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

dude dont assume that where you live is the only place on earth, where i live the P2 is a hell of alot cheaper than the i5

Not the case in the United States. i5 is generally available for $210USD and the Phenom II 965 is generally available for $250 USD, and I was able to find one site offering it for $245. Most people order online to duck individual state sales taxes.

 

[jennyh]

Before the 965 BE even gets reduced in price, it is £30 more expensive than the i5 750 in the uk right now.

However, that is pretty easily made up with the least expensive i5 (ASRock) mobo being £50 more expensive than the least expensive AM2+, and about £25 more expensive than the cheapest AM3 mobo.

 

[OvrClkr]

Well here in the States you can get a 750 for 179.99$ and an MSI P55 mobo for 119.99$.... I don't think AMD can match that.....

 

[jennyh]

Well here in the States you can get a 750 for 179.99$ and an MSI P55 mobo for 119.99$.... I don't think AMD can match that.....

Put yourself out of your misery and buy it then, before the real story gets out.


(ps this is what intel are hoping you do)

 

[OvrClkr]

Naaaa.... im good with my AMD for now.... I will build one in the near future, but I see no point for now.... My PC is plenty for my needs ATM.....

"before the real story gets out"?

 

[archibael]

"Core i5 is people!"

(apologies for the obscure 70s movie reference)

 

[Upendra09]

HEY THIS IS MY THREAD!!! sto taking over it!!

any way i was going to build an Athlon II build to replace my current setup but now i am really reconsidering. i5 is mainstream but beats a gaming quad core, so the standards are higher for one company than another.

i might still go AMD because their price cuts allow me more budget left over for other things

they should make bulldozer very much compatible with SSDs they could sell to gamers, and have quad channel mem controllers for DDR4

 

[randomizer]

Four memory channels would be expensive, and quite useless.

 

[BadTrip]

"Core i5 is people!"

(apologies for the obscure 70s movie reference)

Now that's funny.

 

[Upendra09]

Random, by the time Bulldozer comes it will be Q2/3 of 2011, where DDR4 will come out around Q1 2012, so that way AMD can stay ahead of the game

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Well, im going by real numbers and what should happen if ATI regains control of the GPU market... For example if Nvidia goes downhill due to overpricing and renaming their current GPU's then that should be a huge gain for AMD/ATI.... Of course if this does not happen then NO, AMD/ATI will still be in a slump and eventually will have to figure something out before they hit rock bottom....

I doubt ATI will make less than 20 million with their next-gen cards... too many users/companies that have been waiting for this and IMO it looks good for ATI.....

Not that ATI will be able to pay of the debt right away but so far it is looking good for them.... we will just have to wait n see what happens.....

Well OK but as long as nVidia is still around, AMD cannot raise their discrete prices 1000x which is what it would take (plus selling the same number of cards at $200K apiece! 😀) for them to stand a rat's arse chance of making $1.5B in the next couple of years.

IIRC the yearly interest on the loan to buy ATI is well up into the hundreds of millions per year, so $20M won't cover anywhere near that. $200M might, however.

 

[caamsa]

LOL

I'm just really worried about them now that Core i5 is going to be pushing their entire line-up into the sub-$200 if they want to have good price\performance.

Intel keeps pouring the pressure on, and AMD doesn't have the resources to be able to tick and tock with them.

Hey there TC!.....so this discussion is going on again! Didn't we have this conversation about 2 years ago....LOL Did you take a look at AMD's stock prices today? They went up 14.57 percent. That is the largest jump I have seen on their stock in years.....what does it mean? Maybe nothing.....but you never know.

http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:AMD

If the 965BE drops to 150 bucks I might pick up two of them. One for me and one for the wife. LOL I can just replace the mb and keep the rest and I have two nice systems for about 500 bucks.

Funny how these same topics get recycled over and over and over again........I guess people have nothing better to do with their time.

I see that I am now a youngster........lol........

 

[spongebob]

"Core i5 is people!"

(apologies for the obscure 70s movie reference)

Can't be true - Intel's not the one with the Green logo... 😗