Question I hate the 3900x maybe? - Advice Please

Aaron Connor

Honorable
Jun 26, 2014
52
0
10,540
1
Ok so I just built a new system:

3900x stock cooler
msi gaming plus x570
EVGA G3 850 PSU
32 GB 3600 DDR4 18 22 22 42
M.2 Samsung Evo Plus

Cold boot issues - kind of sorted with voltage adjustment, now getting BOD crash x1 and all games crashing. Set memory to 3333 which seemed to resolve issues but now returned it to 3600 and completly reset cmos, Updated to beta bios. fps is pretty crap IMHO and yes I know my card is old 1060 6Gb.

On Heaven Benchmark I got a score of 1641, FPS5.1 Min FPS 9.5, Max 133.8
Cinebench R20 score 7120

Anno 1800 FPS 30-40
CS GO 250FPS
Doom about 60FPS (think doom is capped anyway)
Outer Worlds 80-100 FPS in Very High Settings

Am I being harsh or should I be seeing better results I am looking at getting a better card.
Also how do I test stability of CPU?

Image Editing: 181558
Time: 28.024

Encoding: 470207
Time: 20.391

OpenCL: 73784
KSamples/sec: 1764

Heavy Multitasking: 296930
Time: 32.937


System Score: 240862




I have come from a 4790k so please be nice as first AMD and getting frustrated as hell with it.




Thanks
 
Last edited:

Zizo007

Respectable
Feb 23, 2019
1,569
203
2,290
54
Is your RAM in the memory compatibility list of your motherboard? Is it 4 or 2 sticks kit?

Also your RAM has high timings, get C16 or C14 3600.

Your scores look pretty normal for a GTX 1060.
 
It seems to me any gaming or GPU compute related benches your 1060 GPU will be a major bottleneck and not a good indicator of CPU performance.

CB20 seems a bit low (I'd expect around 7400-7500 or so) but you've probably not set it up right.

First make sure you've updated BIOS to latest for the board. Leave voltage and multipliers set to AUTO...both for CPU and RAM since you're having cold boot problems.

Set the following in your BIOS, under "CPU Features" or "AMD_CBS":
  • Global C-state Control = Enabled
  • Power Supply Idle Control = Low Current Idle
  • CPPC = Enabled
  • CPPC Preferred Cores = Enabled
  • AMD Cool'n'Quiet = Enabled
  • PPC Adjustment = PState 0
Don't just leave those settings in AUTO because many times AUTO defaults to DISABLED. Be sure you've installed the latest AMD chipset drivers; I suggest getting them from the AMD web site. Run the AMD Balanced power plan.

You can also try enabling PBO and sliding PPT, EDC and TDC adjustments as high as they will go.

That's should get you off to a good start. Once you've got it booting reliably you can go after RAM by setting XMP profile. Before you start tweaking anything, especially anything so silly as overclocking, learn something about how Ryzen works. It's not what you might think, coming from Intel.
 
Last edited:

Aaron Connor

Honorable
Jun 26, 2014
52
0
10,540
1
Ok so with board at stock defaults it boots fine memory defaults to 2666 as soon as xmp enabled Cold boot issue. Clean os and bios updated chipset drivers correct and downloaded straight from msi.

If lower the voltage it removes the boot issues but not good performance.

I will try tweaks suggested by drea above and can return ram and get different but what 3600 cas 16 or 3200 cas 16?

Currently 2 sticks of ram in correct slots.

Idle temps 35 to 45 75 to 80 under load

Was never planning on oc this chip

Thanks all for replies.
 
Last edited:
...

Idle temps 35 to 45 75 to 80 under load
...
Idle temps is one of the things that probably look very strange coming from Intel. Even when 'idle' Ryzen works by very aggressively boosting, preferred cores first, for light bursting loads to it's highest boost clock speed in an effort to quickly return cores to a deep sleep and rack up power savings. Those aggressive boosts result in temp spikes that may look like it's getting hot, except those temp spikes are so short in duration and localized they don't have all that much thermal energy in them. It's exactly like lighting a match in a room: the flame is way hot but it has no real effect on room temperature. And in the same way it's impossible for a room AC to cool off the match, any cooler (short of LN2) will not cool off those temp spikes.

So the spikes aren't really a problem and should be ignored except they can make fans pulse. The way to keep that from happening is by setting a flat fan speed up to about 65 or 70C; pick a speed that's not loud or annoying and then start ramping it up from there. TjMax for Ryzen is 95C, so I wouldn't let it go airplane mode fast until around 90C maybe even 95C.

EDIT add: and oh yes, as good as it is the stock cooler really isn't adequate for a 12c/24t 3900x when processing load gets heavy. You may want to consider something better.
 
Last edited:

Aaron Connor

Honorable
Jun 26, 2014
52
0
10,540
1
Idle temps is one of the things that probably look very strange coming from Intel. Even when 'idle' Ryzen works by very aggressively boosting, preferred cores first, for light bursting loads to it's highest boost clock speed in an effort to quickly return cores to a deep sleep and rack up power savings. Those aggressive boosts result in temp spikes that may look like it's getting hot, except those temp spikes are so short in duration and localized they don't have all that much thermal energy in them. It's exactly like lighting a match in a room: the flame is way hot but it has no real effect on room temperature. And in the same way it's impossible for a room AC to cool off the match, any cooler (short of LN2) will not cool off those temp spikes.

So the spikes aren't really a problem and should be ignored except they can make fans pulse. The way to keep that from happening is by setting a flat fan speed up to about 65 or 70C; pick a speed that's not loud or annoying and then start ramping it up from there. TjMax for Ryzen is 95C, so I wouldn't let it go airplane mode fast until around 90C maybe even 95C.

EDIT add: and oh yes, as good as it is the stock cooler really isn't adequate for a 12c/24t 3900x when processing load gets heavy. You may want to consider something better.
I was going to get an Arctic Freezer 2 but not until I get this boot issue sorted. It is an XMP issue as boots fine on default 2666 but as soon as I enable xmp it wont boot every time and I have to power it off and back on as the fans spin up but cpu light stays on and no output to screen.

What can I try or should i just swap memory was thinking
Corsair 32GB Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200MHz RAM/Memory Kit 2x 16GB 16 18 18 36 to replace 3600 18 22 22 42 or even
G.SKILL 32GB Trident Z Neo DDR4 3600MHz PC4-28800 CL16 (16-19-19-39) RGB Dual Channel Kit (2x 16GB



the XMP profile does set it correctly to 3600 18 22 22 42 but can I try tweaking these settings?
 
Last edited:
I was going to get an Arctic Freezer 2 but not until I get this boot issue sorted. It is an XMP issue as boots fine on default 2666 but as soon as I enable xmp it wont boot every time and I have to power it off and back on as the fans spin up but cpu light stays on and no output to screen.

What can I try or should i just swap memory was thinking
Corsair 32GB Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200MHz RAM/Memory Kit 2x 16GB 16 18 18 36 to replace 3600 18 22 22 42 or even
G.SKILL 32GB Trident Z Neo DDR4 3600MHz PC4-28800 CL16 (16-19-19-39) RGB Dual Channel Kit (2x 16GB



the XMP profile does set it correctly to 3600 18 22 22 42 but can I try tweaking these settings?
I get a very similar problem when I enable XMP. What I do is manually set the DRAM voltage to a higher value to get it to boot. I'd suggest 1.40-1.45 volts, which quite high but still safe since the DDR4 spec requires operation at up to 1.5V. But after getting successful boot go back in and set the voltage back to the voltage rating of the DIMM kit... probably on the package. In my case that always works.

It may be a problem with MSI BIOS' for all I know since I have an MSI B450 Mortar.

If, in the end, you absolutely can not get memory to work I'd suggest exchanging motherboard for something different, if you still can, vs. swapping out memory. Like @Phaaze88 says: MSI's low-end X570 boards are the worst of the lot. Very odd since they have some excellent B450 boards which would do really nice with your 3900X... like the B450 Tomahawk.
 
Last edited:

Zizo007

Respectable
Feb 23, 2019
1,569
203
2,290
54
I was going to get an Arctic Freezer 2 but not until I get this boot issue sorted. It is an XMP issue as boots fine on default 2666 but as soon as I enable xmp it wont boot every time and I have to power it off and back on as the fans spin up but cpu light stays on and no output to screen.

What can I try or should i just swap memory was thinking
Corsair 32GB Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200MHz RAM/Memory Kit 2x 16GB 16 18 18 36 to replace 3600 18 22 22 42 or even
G.SKILL 32GB Trident Z Neo DDR4 3600MHz PC4-28800 CL16 (16-19-19-39) RGB Dual Channel Kit (2x 16GB



the XMP profile does set it correctly to 3600 18 22 22 42 but can I try tweaking these settings?
Make sure these are in the memory compatibility list of your motherboard:
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/MPG-X570-GAMING-PLUS#support-mem-19
 

jwcrellin

Reputable
Dec 3, 2016
1,218
12
5,665
152
Ok so with board at stock defaults it boots fine memory defaults to 2666 as soon as xmp enabled Cold boot issue. Clean os and bios updated chipset drivers correct and downloaded straight from msi.

If lower the voltage it removes the boot issues but not good performance.

I will try tweaks suggested by drea above and can return ram and get different but what 3600 cas 16 or 3200 cas 16?

Currently 2 sticks of ram in correct slots.

Idle temps 35 to 45 75 to 80 under load

Was never planning on oc this chip

Thanks all for replies.
I have found that motherboard vendors run the cpu voltage far too high. Like 1.44V O_O. I manually set mine back down to 1.325 and i'm getting much better behavior. Oh, 3700x here.
 

Ncogneto

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
2,335
48
19,810
0
Ok so I just built a new system:

3900x stock cooler
msi gaming plus x570
EVGA G3 850 PSU
32 GB 3600 DDR4 18 22 22 42
M.2 Samsung Evo Plus

Cold boot issues - kind of sorted with voltage adjustment, now getting BOD crash x1 and all games crashing. Set memory to 3333 which seemed to resolve issues but now returned it to 3600 and completly reset cmos, Updated to beta bios. fps is pretty crap IMHO and yes I know my card is old 1060 6Gb.

On Heaven Benchmark I got a score of 1641, FPS5.1 Min FPS 9.5, Max 133.8
Cinebench R20 score 7120

Anno 1800 FPS 30-40
CS GO 250FPS
Doom about 60FPS (think doom is capped anyway)
Outer Worlds 80-100 FPS in Very High Settings

Am I being harsh or should I be seeing better results I am looking at getting a better card.
Also how do I test stability of CPU?

Image Editing: 181558
Time: 28.024

Encoding: 470207
Time: 20.391

OpenCL: 73784
KSamples/sec: 1764

Heavy Multitasking: 296930
Time: 32.937


System Score: 240862




I have come from a 4790k so please be nice as first AMD and getting frustrated as hell with it.




Thanks
As others have already stated, RMA the MOBO and get a decent one. No use of fiddling with bad hardware. As to why you would go with such a nice processor, then take the cheapo route on the motherboard is a bit of a head scratcher to me. If you want to stick with the MSI brand, the MSI unify is the first board on their product stack worth considering.
 

Aaron Connor

Honorable
Jun 26, 2014
52
0
10,540
1
Ok so I have set the Vcore to 1.375 and the Dram voltage to 1.35
...
Yah...fixing Vcore so low is a good way to kill Ryzen 3000 performance since it inhibits boosting. Leave it in Auto, let the processor do what it knows is best. You only need to lower VCore when manually all-core overclocking and with a 3900X that means you'll need some pretty buff hardware... cooling, motherboard, etc.

Don't pay attention to anyone who says otherwise, when set to AUTO the CPU is designed to hit voltages up to 1.5V during lightly loaded boosts. It will AUTOmatically drop voltage down to 1.3V, or less, when heavily loaded.
 
Last edited:
I didn't watch it. He's not really all that good a source for info on Ryzen. He's an Intel guy only recently joining the Ryzen bandwagon; he's still learning himself. I'd go looking at GamersNexus videos and Hardware UNboxed and expecially Buildzoid's you-tube channel in general... that would be Actual Hardcore Overclocking

BUT ALSO... he's OVER clocking...like I said. Leave it in Auto. Your board is an absolute disaster to try manual all-core overclocking a 3900X. I really don't think you're ready for it either since you haven't even got it working stable in Auto yet.

It's really important to get your system stable while performing as designed, full-on stock first. You havent to establish a baseline to know whatever manual overclock you manage to get is even worth the effort performance-wise. Most people don't get better performance across the board; it takes a lot of effort and really good hardware to beat stock settings with a 3900X. And a winner in the Silicon Lottery.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Phaaze88

FullTank

Reputable
Apr 7, 2015
39
1
4,545
4
i skipped most of the comments guys so don't get mad on me, but the very first google pic result of R9 3900X cinebench R20 is 7155 , which is exactly same as OP's result , the second, is 7086 which is exactly same as OP's result, the third, is 7192 with 3600 ram which most likely have better timings, which again, exactly same as OP's result, ok?
 
i skipped most of the comments guys so don't get mad on me, but the very first google pic result of R9 3900X cinebench R20 is 7155 , which is exactly same as OP's result , the second, is 7086 which is exactly same as OP's result, the third, is 7192 with 3600 ram which most likely have better timings, which again, exactly same as OP's result, ok?
Oh yeah, he's not terrible with CPU performance. Some simple tweak-ups, that everyone should be able to do, are good though. His real problem (that I see) is that he's not able to boot with his RAM at XMP settings.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS