[SOLVED] I hate the 3900x maybe? - Advice Please

[Aaron Connor]

Ok so I just built a new system:

3900x stock cooler
msi gaming plus x570
EVGA G3 850 PSU
32 GB 3600 DDR4 18 22 22 42
M.2 Samsung Evo Plus

Cold boot issues - kind of sorted with voltage adjustment, now getting BOD crash x1 and all games crashing. Set memory to 3333 which seemed to resolve issues but now returned it to 3600 and completly reset cmos, Updated to beta bios. fps is pretty crap IMHO and yes I know my card is old 1060 6Gb.

On Heaven Benchmark I got a score of 1641, FPS5.1 Min FPS 9.5, Max 133.8
Cinebench R20 score 7120

Anno 1800 FPS 30-40
CS GO 250FPS
Doom about 60FPS (think doom is capped anyway)
Outer Worlds 80-100 FPS in Very High Settings

Am I being harsh or should I be seeing better results I am looking at getting a better card.
Also how do I test stability of CPU?

Image Editing: 181558
Time: 28.024

Encoding: 470207
Time: 20.391

OpenCL: 73784
KSamples/sec: 1764

Heavy Multitasking: 296930
Time: 32.937


System Score: 240862




I have come from a 4790k so please be nice as first AMD and getting frustrated as hell with it.




Thanks

 

[ohio_buckeye]

I do watch a lot of Jayz videos, but he's only recently talked about moving to ryzen. Some things I've seen on Reddit from someone who appeared to be an engineer for AMD seems to suggest leaving things at stock because by undervolting you you actually hurt performance and introduce more micro stuttering.

 

[FullTank]

Yeah...but he's not able to boot with his RAM at XMP settings.

hello, that's normal on certain motherboards on ryzen, his motherboard should support 3200. above that is up to motherboard's vendor and bios version, it's Up To Luck even on ryzen 3xxx series, my friend have r5 3600 and beta bios allowed him to use the 3600mhz ram on an asrock motherboard, but prebeta one had errors on it, first gen ryzen supported safely 2667 on any mobo, above that depended on mobo and ram, 2xxx ryzen supported 29xx if i remember right, above that etc etc as i said already, the 2nd gen which is 3xxx ryzen supports 3200, above that is etc etc.

i also own Threadripper 1920X , i am able to utilize 3200 on it, but 3333 it doesn't want at all on my motherboard and i consider my result a huge luck, i also own r5 1400 with cheapest asrock motherboard and it stable supports 2667, and can boot with up to 3200 but neither of above 2667 is stable. , it's just the norm for ryzen and mobos for them, it is not an issue of the motherboard, it's just how it was made. , i would instead look at a bit lowered gtx 1060 6gb score than the generic 1700 range, but again - it may be due to the ryzen cpu since heaven is an old benchmark, in any case it's not far from the norm, it also could be due to very slight throttling of gpu or simply lower auto core boost on the gpu, good luck to you all but i see no real issue here

from what i see by scores it's perfectly fine

 

[Aaron Connor]

I didn't watch it. He's not really all that good a source for info on Ryzen. He's an Intel guy only recently joining the Ryzen bandwagon; he's still learning himself. I'd go looking at GamersNexus videos and Hardware UNboxed and expecially Buildzoid's you-tube channel in general... that would be Actual Hardcore Overclocking

BUT ALSO... he's OVER clocking...like I said. Leave it in Auto. Your board is an absolute disaster to try manual all-core overclocking a 3900X. I really don't think you're ready for it either since you haven't even got it working stable in Auto yet.

It's really important to get your system stable while performing as designed, full-on stock first. You havent to establish a baseline to know whatever manual overclock you manage to get is even worth the effort performance-wise. Most people don't get better performance across the board; it takes a lot of effort and really good hardware to beat stock settings with a 3900X. And a winner in the Silicon Lottery.

I get that I was running a 4790k for 6 years at 5ghz with no issues. This board and chip are a pain in the backside.

 

[drea.drechsler]

I do watch a lot of Jayz videos, but he's only recently talked about moving to ryzen. Some things I've seen on Reddit from someone who appeared to be an engineer for AMD seems to suggest leaving things at stock because by undervolting you you actually hurt performance and introduce more micro stuttering.

Steve on GamersNexus had a really informative bit on it in his 3700X launch review. It's something called clock compression... the boosting algorithm looks at voltage and thermal headroom to determine how high to boost. If thermals are there but it's not got the voltage it somehow manages to SAY it's boosting, by reporting higher clock speeds, but not actually boost. You only see it in reduced performance.

There was also a rather famous youtuber review who went on and on about how cool Ryzen 3700x's were because you could drop voltages really low without reducing clock speed. He didn't ever measure actual performance; when called on it he admitted he was wrong with a mea culpa video the next day.

 

[drea.drechsler]

I get that I was running a 4790k for 6 years at 5ghz with no issues. This board and chip are a pain in the backside.

Overclocking Ryzen 3000 truly is a pain, I admit. The boosting algorithm has got all the sweetness out of the CPU that it has to give, and any more is just playing around the edges. It's just the way it is, that's why it's better to just leave it in AUTO (multipliers and voltages) and just make those processor settings tweaks. That let's the boosting algorithm do it's thing. And DO NOT let it worry you that it's peaking VCore up to 1.5V in light loads...it's DESIGNED to do that and AMD has stated such several times.

 

[Aaron Connor]

Oh yeah, he's not terrible with CPU performance. Some simple tweak-ups, that everyone should be able to do, are good though. His real problem (that I see) is that he's not able to boot with his RAM at XMP settings.

Yes that's the main issue. The Ram should run at 1.35 volts on auto the board is putting 1.356 if set to 1.4 it doesn't boot and at auto it boots but on a cold boot board lights up but cpu light on. I have set voltage to 1.34 and board is putting on 1.348 so will test on a cold boot.

The board is not the best but my last board for my 4790k was a piece of junk and still lasted 6 years and is still going strong.

I know I might only get 3200mhz but as I paid for 3600 I am going to try.

I am happy to get another board if I need to.

 

[Aaron Connor]

Overclocking Ryzen 3000 truly is a pain, I admit. The boosting algorithm has got all the sweetness out of the CPU that it has to give, and any more is just playing around the edges. It's just the way it is, that's why it's better to just leave it in AUTO (multipliers and voltages) and just make those processor settings tweaks. That let's the boosting algorithm do it's thing. And DO NOT let it worry you that it's peaking VCore up to 1.5V in light loads...it's DESIGNED to do that and AMD has stated such several times.

Ok thanks I think the issue is the memory above 3200mhz and voltage when i set it to1.4v it will not boot just powers on with cpu warning light.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Yes that's the main issue. The Ram should run at 1.35 volts on auto the board is putting 1.356 if set to 1.4 it doesn't boot and at auto it boots but on a cold boot board lights up but cpu light on. I have set voltage to 1.34 and board is putting on 1.348 so will test on a cold boot.

The board is not the best but my last board for my 4790k was a piece of junk and still lasted 6 years and is still going strong.

I know I might only get 3200mhz but as I paid for 3600 I am going to try.

I am happy to get another board if I need to.

Also...have you done a CMOS reset?

and yes you should try to get 3600, Ryzen 3000 MCU's are very capable for getting there, so I see no reason not to try.

 

[Aaron Connor]

Also...have you done a CMOS reset?

and yes you should try to get 3600, Ryzen 3000 MCU's are very capable for getting there, so I see no reason not to try.

yes I booted into the bios and set DRAM to 1.4 saved and restarted. The fans span up and the cpu warning light came on. the only way i could get back into the bios was to do a cmos reset.

 

[Zizo007]

Ok so I have set the Vcore to 1.375 and the Dram voltage to 1.35
I have set timings to 18 - 22 -22 -42

HWInfo is showing Vcore at 1.376 and DRAM at 0.680

I set the Ram speed to 3266

Boot issues gone but now cinebench r20 is

cmk32gx4m2z3600c18 - looks like it is not in the compatibility list as far as I can see.

If its not in the list then its likely that it won't run XMP speeds.

 

[drea.drechsler]

If its not in the list then its likely that it won't run XMP speeds.

I've never put a lot of faith in motherboard mfr's QVL's for a number of reasons. Beginning with they can't hardly have tested every kit on the market, so they're hardly complete lists, and ending with they're rarely updated as BIOS updates and new memory kits come out.

But also, and probably more importantly, memory compatibility is much more dependent on the MCU which is in the processor and Ryzen 3000's is at least the equal of Intel's now. I think it's worth a try, and even short of 3600, 3200 or even 3400 are still possible.

 

[drea.drechsler]

yes I booted into the bios and set DRAM to 1.4 saved and restarted. The fans span up and the cpu warning light came on. the only way i could get back into the bios was to do a cmos reset.

You can also try entering the timings and multiplier manually as well as entering DRAM voltage manually.

That's exactly the same thing that happens if I don't load voltage manually when I try to raise my memory speed too. When you manually enter timings, take it out of XMP then set voltage then go into advance RAM settings and set the four or five timings on the package. I'd start off with a low multiplier: let's say just 3200 or even 3000. If it boots OK go to 3400 then finally 3600.

If you can get it to go at 3200 and 3400 but not 3600 we could also try setting sub-timing and sub-sub timings. But that's a lot of work, if you're happy with 3200 that could be enough.

Really, it's overclocking of memory and getting a high synchronized IF clock that is the best way to maximize Ryzen performance. That's why it's worth the effort to figure out.

 

[Aaron Connor]

Well the Ram is stable passed memory test and ran anno 1800 for 2 hours no crash also got a good score from cbr20 7580 just going to see if it boots in the morning this is with manual timings and a voltage of 1.34 which gives 1.348 as close to 1.35 as I can get 1.356 gives cold boot. If it does not boot I will just order a new board and RAM most likely x570 hero viii and new 3600 ddr4 c16

 

[drea.drechsler]

... x570 hero viii ...

With that one, and decent enough cooling on CPU, you'll definitely be ready to dig into manual all-core overclocking of 3900X. Or 3950X.

 

[Ncogneto]

so this guy is on crack then?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssuqhyqah2k

No, he is not on crack, but there are many means to an end. As to which motherboard I would recommend, obviously I haven't tried them all, that is what the review sites are for. I just know that the bottom end MSI boards are crap, and this has been brought up in numerous reviews. Interestingly enough, they were so bad that it prompted MSI to actually make a good motherboard, the Unify, and that is the board I would recommend, but I know there are others out there that are good as well.

Not sure why you are so hard set on running the XMP profile, the MSI motherboards have a feature call MEMORY TRY IT, which is where I would personally start with any fine tuning of the system memory. What Ram kit do you have installed right now?

 

[Aaron Connor]

Ok so I swapped out the MSI board and got the Asus Hero VIII and it booted fine and Ram defaulted to 2666 CBR20 score of 6888. I then set Ram to 3600 and again it booted although the timings were strange the Ram timings for the kit I have are 18 22 22 42 the Asus set it to 26 25 25 58 I restarted and it booted ok CBR20 score 6696.

I updated from Bios 19/9/9/to 19/12/03 and when I select 3600 it set timing to 18 18 18 43 but system would not boot.

I reverted back to 19/9/9 but have to say I don't have a scooby with memory timings.

Should I swop out the current memory CMK32GX4M2Z3600C18 or try and get the timings working. Also

I was getting better scores on the MSI board tbh and yes its a clean os install and latest drivers. Was also getting better temps on the MSI!

 

[drea.drechsler]

...
I reverted back to 19/9/9 but have to say I don't have a scooby with memory timings.
....

If you want to know how to get 3600 with uncooperative DIMM's, here's the way:

DRAM Calculator for Ryzen v1.7.3 Download

DRAM Calculator for Ryzen helps with overclocking your memory on the AMD Ryzen platform. It suggests stable memory timing sets optimized for your m

www.techpowerup.com

Here's an excellent how-to for using it:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqhyVNPhaM

 

[dorsai]

Ok so I just built a new system:

3900x stock cooler
msi gaming plus x570
EVGA G3 850 PSU
32 GB 3600 DDR4 18 22 22 42
M.2 Samsung Evo Plus

Cold boot issues - kind of sorted with voltage adjustment, now getting BOD crash x1 and all games crashing. Set memory to 3333 which seemed to resolve issues but now returned it to 3600 and completly reset cmos, Updated to beta bios. fps is pretty crap IMHO and yes I know my card is old 1060 6Gb.

On Heaven Benchmark I got a score of 1641, FPS5.1 Min FPS 9.5, Max 133.8
Cinebench R20 score 7120

Anno 1800 FPS 30-40
CS GO 250FPS
Doom about 60FPS (think doom is capped anyway)
Outer Worlds 80-100 FPS in Very High Settings

Am I being harsh or should I be seeing better results I am looking at getting a better card.
Also how do I test stability of CPU?

Image Editing: 181558
Time: 28.024

Encoding: 470207
Time: 20.391

OpenCL: 73784
KSamples/sec: 1764

Heavy Multitasking: 296930
Time: 32.937


System Score: 240862




I have come from a 4790k so please be nice as first AMD and getting frustrated as hell with it.




Thanks

Replacing your GPU with a newer faster model and your memory with a kit like the 3200mhz FlareX cas14 will let that 3900x run.

Upgrading your cooler to an 240 or 280 AIO from a brand name company like Corsair will allow the chip to boost for longer periods.

While your motherboard isn't suitable for overclocking a 12 core chip but for running stock clocks in a case with good airflow it's should be fine. The HWunboxed video linked above is informative but understand they did their test on an open bench with no airflow over the motherboard and using an AIO cooler which removes every source of VRM air cooling. Their test isn't really indicative of how most people run their PC...they themselves call it an extreme stress test. Most people run their system in a case with fans moving air across the motherboard in which case the x570 Gaming Plus is fine at stock clocks.

 

[Zizo007]

His new Asus is more than enough to even overclock a 3950X.
OP RAM in the memory compatibility list of the motherboard have a higher chance of working stably at XMP speeds. I had incompatibility issues more than 5 times even when upgrading within the same brand Asrock B350 to Asrock X370. My RAM was not stable at XMP speed and would reboot into bios showing 0mb RAM. It would error in memtest86+.

I changed to RAM in the compatibility list (Samsung B-die) and its 100% stable but my CPU is 1st gen so I put it at 3200 C14-14-14-14-28.

 

[drea.drechsler]

His new Asus is more than enough to even overclock a 3950X.
....

Ya think?

That board will take a 3950 to 5Ghz. On LN2 of course, it's got all the necessary features for doing it.

 

[Aaron Connor]

I am starting to think that the RAM I have is the issue I am still in return period so will RMA and order a new kit I can't be bothered to mess about with timings.


What would be good memory I see that

3200mhz FlareX cas14

Has been suggested any other suggestion before I order I have looked at the QVL but it says that my current RAM is supported

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/...G_Crosshair_VIII_Series_Memory_QVL_190801.pdf

I do appreciate all the advice and it is nice to see helpful responses you don't always get that.


EDIT: I have an AIO on order 280 Arctic Freezer 2

 

[dorsai]

Though your current ram is supported the cas timings are very loose resulting in low performance...you can try overclocking it but results vary.
I went with 4 sticks of the 8gig FlareX which runs great at 3200mhz cas14 timings...which by the way provides almost identical results to running 3600mhz at cas16 according to my own testing.

 

[Zizo007]

I am starting to think that the RAM I have is the issue I am still in return period so will RMA and order a new kit I can't be bothered to mess about with timings.


What would be good memory I see that

Has been suggested any other suggestion before I order I have looked at the QVL but it says that my current RAM is supported

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/...G_Crosshair_VIII_Series_Memory_QVL_190801.pdf

I do appreciate all the advice and it is nice to see helpful responses you don't always get that.


EDIT: I have an AIO on order 280 Arctic Freezer 2

The list has a greater chance of working at XMP speeds but speed also depend on the processor, every processor is different even if its the same model.
Also sometimes there is different versions/revisions of the same RAM model with different chips, e.g. Samsung vs Hynix.

Did you check if your current RAM has the same chip manufacturer as the one in the QVL list?