[SOLVED] I have a ssd with some slow blocks, i fragmented it every month, could i have damaged it? A400 kingston

Andrew223344

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I have a ssd with some slow blocks, i fragmented it every month, could i have damaged it? i needed to defrag it because it were getting slow every month, with fragmentation it were getting faster.. but, 5 days ago i scanned it to check if everything is ok, 990 blocks with 300 ms. why my ssd were getting slower without fragmentation? i have bought a 970 evo plus now, i think i ll never defrag it..
 

deesider

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Unfortunately most of the answers in this thread are not useful, because they are simply perpetuating myths based on assumptions.

Myth 1: An SSD must never be defragmented because it will wear out the drive. Even in the most extreme scenario where every cell in a drive is being rewritten, doing this once a month would use 10% of the rated write endurance per month for the drive. In a realistic scenario the amount written leads to a basically insignificant level of wear.

Myth 2: Windows will not defrag your SSD. The optimise drive feature in windows runs about once per month automatically if you have system restore on that drive. This includes defragging. You don't need to be doing it manually. It will be defragging your SSD. We know this because it can be directly observed, and Microsoft has clearly documented and confirmed that it does.

Myth 3: An SSD does not benefit from defragging. Latency may be low, but it is not zero. A fragmented drive will have lower performance. That is why Windows defrags it...

The issues are discussed in this blog post with direct quotes from the MS storage team: https://www.hanselman.com/blog/TheRealAndCompleteStoryDoesWindowsDefragmentYourSSD.aspx

Storage Optimizer will defrag an SSD once a month if volume snapshots are enabled. This is by design and necessary due to slow volsnap copy on write performance on fragmented SSD volumes. It’s also somewhat of a misconception that fragmentation is not a problem on SSDs. If an SSD gets too fragmented you can hit maximum file fragmentation (when the metadata can’t represent any more file fragments) which will result in errors when you try to write/extend a file. Furthermore, more file fragments means more metadata to process while reading/writing a file, which can lead to slower performance.​

This documentation provides some details on how the optimise drive function operates: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/windows-commands/defrag

When run from the scheduled task, defrag uses the below policy guidelines for SSDs:
  • Traditional optimization processes. Includes traditional defragmentation, for example moving files to make them reasonably contiguous and retrim. This is done once per month. However, if both traditional defragmentation and retrim are skipped, then analysis isn't run.
  • If you manually run traditional defragmentation on a SSD, between your normally scheduled runs, the next scheduled task run performs analysis and retrim, but skips traditional defragmentation on that SSD.
Given the above, I think it is very unlikely that pressing the optimise drive button once a month caused your drive to fail. As already suggested above, it is more likely that something was wrong with the drive and that led you to trying the optimise function.

However, for your new drive, you don't need to hit that button, because chances are Windows is already doing it (including a once per month defrag).
 
I have a ssd with some slow blocks, i fragmented it every month, could i have damaged it? i needed to defrag it because it were getting slow every month, with fragmentation it were getting faster.. but, 5 days ago i scanned it to check if everything is ok, 990 blocks with 300 ms. why my ssd were getting slower without fragmentation? i have bought a 970 evo plus now, i think i ll never defrag it..
Didn't you mean DE-fragmentation ? If you did that often it is probably the cause of "slow" blocks.
 

deesider

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Windows does automatically defrag your ssd if you are using system restore on that drive.

A once a month manual defrag seems unlikely to wear out your drive, given most allow for 0.3 drive writes per day or more. How old was this drive and how were you using? Perhaps it just reached the end of its life?

If it were near max capacity you would also be more likely to cause wear on a few cells.
 

Andrew223344

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i got that drive in 2019, it was slow by default, but why defragmentation made it faster? is this a hdd and i didnt know? lol. i have another a 400 that run like new after 6 months, should i disable automatic windows defragmenter for my next drive? i have warranty on the broken ssd.
 
Yes, you damaged your drive. Importantly or not, I don't know.

The purpose of de-fragmentation on a hard drive is to gather together related parts of a file so that access can be done with a minimum of latency.
Since a ssd has virtually no latency, that is a useless procedure.
Past that, every ssd has a finite number of writes that can be done to the nand blocks.
When you de-frag, you are rewriting many blocks thus reducing the lifetime of your ssd.

Yes, on your new 970 evo plus, you are wise to never try to defrag.
From the performance point of view, you now have about the best there is.
 

Andrew223344

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Apr 7, 2019
63
1
535
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Yes, you damaged your drive. Importantly or not, I don't know.

The purpose of de-fragmentation on a hard drive is to gather together related parts of a file so that access can be done with a minimum of latency.
Since a ssd has virtually no latency, that is a useless procedure.
Past that, every ssd has a finite number of writes that can be done to the nand blocks.
When you de-frag, you are rewriting many blocks thus reducing the lifetime of your ssd.

Yes, on your new 970 evo plus, you are wise to never try to defrag.
From the performance point of view, you now have about the best there is.
even on windows 10 optimize button in the optimize drives destroy a ssd?
 
If you were constantly defragging the drive because it was slow then there’s something wrong with it because defragmenting files doesn’t mean anything to an SSD because the data is all random access. All you did was hasten its demise
 

deesider

Reputable
Jun 15, 2017
71
13
4,545
3
Unfortunately most of the answers in this thread are not useful, because they are simply perpetuating myths based on assumptions.

Myth 1: An SSD must never be defragmented because it will wear out the drive. Even in the most extreme scenario where every cell in a drive is being rewritten, doing this once a month would use 10% of the rated write endurance per month for the drive. In a realistic scenario the amount written leads to a basically insignificant level of wear.

Myth 2: Windows will not defrag your SSD. The optimise drive feature in windows runs about once per month automatically if you have system restore on that drive. This includes defragging. You don't need to be doing it manually. It will be defragging your SSD. We know this because it can be directly observed, and Microsoft has clearly documented and confirmed that it does.

Myth 3: An SSD does not benefit from defragging. Latency may be low, but it is not zero. A fragmented drive will have lower performance. That is why Windows defrags it...

The issues are discussed in this blog post with direct quotes from the MS storage team: https://www.hanselman.com/blog/TheRealAndCompleteStoryDoesWindowsDefragmentYourSSD.aspx

Storage Optimizer will defrag an SSD once a month if volume snapshots are enabled. This is by design and necessary due to slow volsnap copy on write performance on fragmented SSD volumes. It’s also somewhat of a misconception that fragmentation is not a problem on SSDs. If an SSD gets too fragmented you can hit maximum file fragmentation (when the metadata can’t represent any more file fragments) which will result in errors when you try to write/extend a file. Furthermore, more file fragments means more metadata to process while reading/writing a file, which can lead to slower performance.​

This documentation provides some details on how the optimise drive function operates: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/windows-commands/defrag

When run from the scheduled task, defrag uses the below policy guidelines for SSDs:
  • Traditional optimization processes. Includes traditional defragmentation, for example moving files to make them reasonably contiguous and retrim. This is done once per month. However, if both traditional defragmentation and retrim are skipped, then analysis isn't run.
  • If you manually run traditional defragmentation on a SSD, between your normally scheduled runs, the next scheduled task run performs analysis and retrim, but skips traditional defragmentation on that SSD.
Given the above, I think it is very unlikely that pressing the optimise drive button once a month caused your drive to fail. As already suggested above, it is more likely that something was wrong with the drive and that led you to trying the optimise function.

However, for your new drive, you don't need to hit that button, because chances are Windows is already doing it (including a once per month defrag).
 

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