I5 out, no phenom II 965 price drop, wtf?

[medjohnson77]

In what way do the new 1156 socket MOBO's have less on them then AMD's am3 socket type MOBO's ? I mean yes I'm fully aware of the PCI-e difference when your running two GPU's because on the 1156 you can only run x8 x8 where as the am3 socket type boards you can have two x16 PCI-e .. But other than that what else extra features do the AMD boards offer that the new 1156 socket MOBO's don't offer?

Both of them can be expanded to 16Gb's of RAM. So as far as memory their upgrade possibilities are roughly same if not at least close. Also in all the Multi-GPU set-up test that AnandTech performed the Intel Core i7 870 did basically exactly the same FPS rates that the AMD 965BE did... Now trust me I know I don't know a ton about computers so I'm not trying to act like I think I do or anything, I would just like to try to understand both sides of the argument since everyone is mostly on the Intel side of the fence its interesting to get to hear the other side of things. Seeing as with everything there is always two sides to every story.

That is a reasonable question, And you hit it on the head, Its the PCI-e lanes. Even back when I build my x2 6400 build, I went with a quality mother board with 16x16 on the lanes instead of the cheaper Asus mother board with only 8x8. Maybe I just bought into the hype and spent an extra $50 at the time for nothing, however I did pick up the on board Wifi with that price. I understand that AnandTech did bench's on it to test this, however with new cards coming out(5800 series) I would not want a board with lesser pci-e lanes then 16x16 for CF setups in my gaming rig. We will see when the new cards are out if it bottle necks the performance on them or not. I think, and this is just my opinion, not fact, that we are going to see some interesting things performance wise with AMD's new hardware. If you look at some of the boards for the I5's, the cheaper ones, around $100 dollars, are they running just one lane at x16, or is it @x8? Just seems to me that they have really skipped on these boards, and the ones that cost $200 and even $229 only run at 8x8. Time will tell if this hurts performance or not.

 

[medjohnson77]

I'm one of the "nobodys" the bought the 965BE. Why? I just upgraded from a dual core AMD 939 Toledo 4800 that has been rock solid for years. Intel holds the crown but I'm pleased with AMD. BTW, this quad core is real solid.

I don't think it is a matter of calling you a nobody. If it is what you wanted and your happy with it then that is really what matters. You had other options that would of been cheaper and gotten the same performance, (955b.e.) but what matters is you happy with its performance, and I am sure it is rock solid. I know I love the performance on my 940b.e at 3.6ghz and as much as I want to upgrade and build another build just be on AM3, I am going to go with the 5800 series and just wait it out this round. I am going to have to see some very nice jumps in performance before I upgrade my main high end rigs CPU and board wise.

 

[ComputerNovice]

That is a reasonable question, And you hit it on the head, Its the PCI-e lanes. Even back when I build my x2 6400 build, I went with a quality mother board with 16x16 on the lanes instead of the cheaper Asus mother board with only 8x8. Maybe I just bought into the hype and spent an extra $50 at the time for nothing, however I did pick up the on board Wifi with that price. I understand that AnandTech did bench's on it to test this, however with new cards coming out(5800 series) I would not want a board with lesser pci-e lanes then 16x16 for CF setups in my gaming rig. We will see when the new cards are out if it bottle necks the performance on them or not. I think, and this is just my opinion, not fact, that we are going to see some interesting things performance wise with AMD's new hardware. If you look at some of the boards for the I5's, the cheaper ones, around $100 dollars, are they running just one lane at x16, or is it @x8? Just seems to me that they have really skipped on these boards, and the ones that cost $200 and even $229 only run at 8x8. Time will tell if this hurts performance or not.

Very true statements man, Like you said so well, we won't ever really know for sure until they come out with the new GPU's how much the PCI-e 8x8 will effect things. Like you said only time will tell.

For me personally though I just can't wait until my build is finished..... Its so hard looking at my case and my PSU and CPU and not having the test of the parts. I can't wait to start gaming on my new set-up!!!!

 

[smithereen]

Just wait for the 58X0s to come out, then they will have a sick platform out. There should be some very sick 965/790X/58X0 combos coming in the near future. And 5870s *will* bottleneck a 8x-8X PCI-E interface.

 

[medjohnson77]

Saying that it will for sure in a very strong statement, however time will tell and I am not willing to blow $400-$600 to find out, nor could I recomend to anyone I build for to go with the I5 platform at this time, until we see some real testing to know for sure.

Yeah that really sucks ComputerNovice, I feel your pain, i have been there and waiting on parts blows. Let us know how your new build turns out. It should be very good I am sure.

 

[cjl]

Just wait for the 58X0s to come out, then they will have a sick platform out. There should be some very sick 965/790X/58X0 combos coming in the near future. And 5870s *will* bottleneck a 8x-8X PCI-E interface.

That's only if you want to CF though - a single 5870 would do great on an i5.

 

[ComputerNovice]

That's only if you want to CF though - a single 5870 would do great on an i5.

Very true as well

 

[medjohnson77]

That's only if you want to CF though - a single 5870 would do great on an i5.

Yes very valid point, however if you want to upgrade down the road time will tell, however IMO looks like you may be screwed going with I5 platform

 

[cjl]

I really don't see how, honestly. Very few people (yes, TH is a skewed sample) actually go with multi-GPU setups, and Intel is planning on keeping 1156 for quite a while (well into 32nm). If I were in the market for a new system, I'd strongly consider an i7-860 right now.

 

[medjohnson77]

Well thats just were our opinions very, and that ok, were all different and have different views. I just can't see giving Intel $294 bucks for there I5 860 when I could just go with the I7 920 and get, IMO a stronger plateform, so if you ever want to go with SLI or CF, you have the option. Nice thing about it is that if all the info out is close to the truth with the new 5800's, one may not need to go CF to see a very bad ass gaming system.

 

[smithereen]

I have to wonder why they did that, though. Obviously, it lends authenticity to the i7 9XX platform again, but it also opens the door for AMD to sell a package deal of 955-790X-crossfire and say "Look, we have the better performing platform" if the 5870 does significantly bottleneck a X8 lane.

On the other hand, if a 5870 bottlenecks a X8 lane, doesn't it seem likely that a 5870X2 will bottleneck a X16 lane?

 

[jennyh]

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=20230&page=1

This sucks why wont intel drop the price on the i5 to match its performance against the new Athlon X4 620?? I want to pay $120 for my i5, not to mention half as much as what I need to pay for a mobo! One more week and I'm gonna buy this Athlon 620, this is just frustrating.

 

[randomizer]

You will buy an 870, we all know that

 

[cjl]

Intel won't drop the i5 750 price to the level of the Athlon x4 because it completely destroys the Athlon in every way. It isn't even close.

The i5 won't drop in price at all, since it competes quite favorably with the PhII 955, which is priced around the same area as the i5 is. Nice though it would be to pay $120 for an i5, it just doesn't make any sense at all for Intel to lower the price at this point.

 

[jennyh]

You really missed the point didn't you cjl? 😛

I'll give you a hint, the x4 620 costs less than half as much of an i5. Does it perform half as badly in anything?

 

[cjl]

When has the CPU market ever had a perfect scaling of price to performance? The question isn't whether the CPU that is twice as expensive is twice as fast - the question is whether the CPU that is twice as expensive is the same price as the other manufacturer's comparably performing model. In this case, the i5 is about the same price as the PhII 955, and cheaper than the 965. Considering it outperforms both (though by a fairly slim margin), this pricing makes perfect sense. In addition, you could build a total i5 system for significantly less than double the cost of a total Athlon II system, which would be a much more valid comparison IMHO.

 

[medjohnson77]

Microcenter has the I7 860 @ 229.99, I5 750 @ 149.99 and the 920 @ 199.99

Well then for the people looking to build a new rig and close to a Micro center and that don't mind the slimed down 8x8 lanes the prices are looking very good on the I5's and atleast. I believe Micro Center is still charging $199 on the I7 920 so I would go with that over the both if 16x16 was important. $229 dollars for a motherboard that doesn't have 16x16 lanes, no thanks.

 

[cjl]

$229?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128405
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128401
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131410
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130239

It doesn't look like you have to spend $229 to me...

 

[medjohnson77]

$229?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128405
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128401
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131410
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130239

It doesn't look like you have to spend $229 to me...

Nope your right you sure don't, however my point is that there higher priced boards seem to be watered down. In around a week or two we will find out how watered down they really are. If lowered 8x8 doesnt' effect CF performance great, but if it does, Phenom II's with decent mother boards around the same price or very little more then what you just posted, or I7 920 with decent motherboards will be the way to go for gamers that want CF.

 

[croc]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the pci-e x8 x x8 a limitation of the CPU and not the actual pci-e bus?

 

[medjohnson77]

I am not for sure either on that croc, but it seems like it is not, given the fact that when I bought my Asus M2n32 sli deluxe board, there were other options for less money, but I didn't go with them because I wanted to SLI my 8800 GTS's and not have the 16x8 PCI-lane. Anyone know for sure on this one?

 

[cjl]

Croc is correct for the 1156 CPUs though - they are the first to have the PCI-E controller directly on the CPU itself. This means it is significantly lower latency, but motherboard manufacturers are limited to 16 lanes of total bandwidth, unless they decide to add an Nforce 200 style chip.

 

[medjohnson77]

Ah I see, thanks for that info cjl, I guess that would explain why there entire 1156 platform don't offer 16x16, not a mother board issue after all, processor Issue, well a issue only if it bottles the newer cards in CF or SLI. Can't wait to see what they do with them. Could turn out to be interesting for the ones who bought into the new next best thing, and want to CF or SLI the next best things in Grafix cards.

 

[ComputerNovice]

Well according to AnandTech's review of how the x8 would effect SLI or Crossfire. They used a ton of different PC's that where using multiple GPU's and when they check the FPS rates the Intel Core i5 and Intel core 870 did basically just as good.


Here's a link to AnandTech's review
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3634&p=9

 

[smithereen]

You must not be looking at the same results I'm looking at... and that's with current-gen technology. There's a a 15% drop from one HD4870X2 to two.