I5 out, no phenom II 965 price drop, wtf?

TwatLlama

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i5 benchmarks add 6-15 fps to your top end games, shake 10-20 seconds per 100 meg off processing, and sells for $209 on newegg yet the 965 is still at $245, am I missing something here? Drop that damn price to like 150 where it belongs and I'm going to buy it, one more week and I'm going with the i5, this is just frustrating
 

paperfox

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my guess is that amd will lower prices when their new 5000 series cards come out so that they can do it all at once and not spend to much time in having to slash prices on cpus then gpus separetly.
 

medjohnson77

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I am sure now that you have made your intentions here clear on buying the I5 over the 965 b.e. in one week that AMD will drop the price on their flagship processor to $150 for you so you will buy it. :sleep:
 

daship

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Sorry AMD does have a fan base with some die hard fans, there not going to drop the price just so you can afford it. Its been over priced from the get go, no reason to bring it down just cause Intel made another CPU it cant beat.
 

medjohnson77

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I agree with you daship, it has been over priced from the get go, but it follows AMDs norm for there new release processors on the Phenom II line. If the OP isn't just flaming and really is debating the Phenom II line then smart choice would just be go with the 955 b.e. and call it a day, the 965 b.e really doesn't bring anything to the table that the $180 dollar 955 b.e. doesnt' bring.

Looking at all the new threads being started up, I think there is just a run on noobs trying to get points waving there Intel Pom poms... :lol:
 

ComputerNovice

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I think the price will drop at some point but I don't think it will happen until about another month or so goes by. Because they will probably try to wait it out and see if they are still able to sell their Phenoms and when they realize they aren't selling near as well since the Intel Core i5 CPU release they will drop the price most likely.
 

alikum

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No you're not missing anything. A smart consumer would just grab a 955 or an i5 and call it a day. I believe that 965 isn't aimed at the mainstream but its target competitor is 1366 i7. Gosh, I just wonder why people just do not bother using the search function and post the same question over and over again.
 

nss000

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AMD fanboyz won't even discuss the X965 chip -- the price/performance gap is soooooo large compared with the INTEL steamrollers. It's AMDs best-shot, and simply NOBODY is buying it !

Perhaps the X965 can find a market in Xigmatics new line of chrome_plate WAFFLE_MAKERS ... I mean it does have 140 W to contribute.
 
I5 out, no phenom II 965 price drop, wtf?

It's been pointed out by myself and others that AMD need to stop bleeding cash and actually make money on the chips they sell, rather than undercutting into CH 11 proceedings for the sake of gaining/maintaining marketshare. (Made Up Numbers for the sake of an example, actuals welcome)- After all, it's common sense that if participating in a market that costs $1.25/unit, but you can only sell the output for a dollar, then you might be better off staying home. What AMD need to do is figure out where to get the missing quarter/unit, plus a little.

Perhaps someone has made up their minds AMD are going to stop undercutting so much. I do note their marketing has shifted from the individual components (processors, in this case) to pitching the value of their platform as a whole. It's not a bad story, and easily understandable by non-technical folks. So it may work and help to get AMD to the next step in their plans.

my $0.02

 

fazers_on_stun

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^ +1. AMD is between a rock and another rock :). They don't have a lot of wiggle room IMO.

However they might be considering a price shift by the end of the month or so, giving some notice to the OEMs so the latter don't get stuck with too much overpriced inventory.

I've read here and elsewhere that OEMs get pretty ticked off with unannounced (or at least unplanned) price cuts, simply because it undermines their prices and financials. Much better to plan your component purchases knowing in advance how much they will cost you and how much you can then sell the product for.
 

nss000

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Plan all you want. Run spreadsheet pricing formulas all month long! If nobody buys X_kit because it soooo underperforms then who makes any money ?

Sure, a few AMD_teen fanboyz will take-pity on the X965. They buy it at premium price, build water-heaters for their splashy LED_infested boxes and overclock like madmen. Pops pays da electric bills .

No adult does that. Ever. For years AMD has been more-than-pleased to soak their buyers for CPUs with minimal advantage over INTEL product. Shoes change feet, but AMD wants the soaking to continue. I think not.
 

medjohnson77

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Thats really funny,

No adults do that?? EVER?? I believe there are quite a few custom builders on here that have the I7's 920, some even with the I7 975, phenom II 955b.e. 940 b.e, that added water cooling to there rigs, Led's to case, and we all pay the electric bill. AMD has one overpriced processor in the Phenom II line up, ATM, how many does Intel have in there line up, I would say atleast 4, which is in line with there x4 price on there higher end processors.
 


AMD are, and have been for some time, selling their chips at a loss. Now, they absolutely require a certain amount of sales volume to meet cash flow needs. But at some point, you *have* to stop the bleeding. I would also point out that AMD's platform is perfectly fine for all but the most demanding desktop applications.


Please keep in mind my post was conjectural. I speak for neither AMD nor Intel; though I'm sure there are a number of individuals here who would happily tell you I'm an Intel Shill/Plant - if only to discredit for the times I take runs at them for their overstatements (and occasional blatant falsehoods). That being said, I shall now take a (small) run at you for yours:




I would hardly call AMD's product line 'Premium Priced', as their 'best' is available at prices INTC charge for their low/mid processors. For some time this has been AMD's strategy: Operate where the 900 pound gorilla isn't sitting. What's happened with the i5 is the gorilla moved. A fully predictable event, which I'm sure AMD were fully aware would happen - though I would opine they (hoped) it wouldn't until closer to spring.






I feel this is a pretty strong overstatement - AMD's offerings are still Performance/Value competitive for desktop usage, and Intel are the ones charging the premium for their (largely better performing) products. And even so, the differences aren't as great as are often implied. This being the Internet, hyperbole is a frequent literary tool.
 

medjohnson77

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Well said and I agree.

How is that the I5's release is any different then the I7's release when it comes to performance? Almost no difference. The only thing I am seeing here is that Intel has slimmed down there motherboard specs, making the new I5 socket motherboards cheaper or at AMD chipset prices, giving you less of a motherboard, for the same price as AMD's chipset, or more expensive then AMD's chipset. Sure the I5 seems to be a very good processor, however the only reason the new I5's are even in the price range of the best AMD, Phenom II line up right now is because of the new boards with less on them. You can pick up a Phenom II 955 b.e right now with a full featured 790FX mother board for around $333.00 dollars which still beats the best deal you can get on a I5 and motherboard combo by $50, and you have a motherboard that has full 16x16 pci-e slots for $50 less then a platform that splits them into 8x8 or just one running at x4. The choice seems very clear to me, IMO
 

jimmysmitty

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I am guessing that people are not willing to spend more money for a OCed 955 when for less they can get the 955 and get a better cooling system and OC it to just as high as a 965 stock and the same as a 965 can OC.

Well at least I wouldn't buy the same chip with a bit higher clock speed. Thats why the Core i7 920 is the main Core i7 everyone buys or talks about. Its cheap and OCs just as well as the Core i7 965 but for a fraction of the price.
 

medjohnson77

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Good point and I agree.

Seems to me that there are alot of noobs here on a run since the I5 release. Funny thing is to me, that it seems that the 965b.e is all the Intel fanboys want to talk about. As you brought up, forget the 965b.e. and just go with the 955b.e and overclock it to and past 965b.e. speeds. One could even go for the Athlon II 550 and unlock the other two cores and Overclock it, at $102 for the chip, I guess that would really shoot down the knocking on the price vs performance issue that they like to bring up with the 965b.e.
 

alikum

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Yes that's precisely it which is why I (and many others) believe that 965's price will not be lowered. For AMD, it's easy because they produce the same chip for all lines be it Deneb, Heka or Callisto. Only difference is that they either have disabled cores or some cache struck out. Many fanboys believe that with i5 out, Intel has won the war. It is not so. Yes performance wise, Intel has the upper hand but production wise, AMD has the upper hand. Think about the number of production lines that Intel has. Core 2 (until they are discontinued) is one line, 1156 is another line and 1336 is another line. All these add up to production costs. For AMD, it's easy - 1 chip for all.

Also note that AMD has Ati on its hand. Intel may have come up with i5, but don't discount AMD just yet. Imagine what it can do, scaling ATI with AMD processors. I'll wait and see what Bulldozer is really capable of.

Note: I'm a fan of neither side. I purchase what's of good value for money and right now, i5 seems to have the upper hand in my opinion. I just hate all these feverish fanboyism. Learn a thing or two before coming up with something like i5 runs 965 all over. It clearly isn't the case.
 

jimmysmitty

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Yep. Only I myself would never be able to bring myself to unlocking cores for the fear that they were actually bad ones and in time end up sorrupting the living crap out of your OS and files leaving you screwed in the end.

But to each their own.

Its like back during the Pentium D days THG did a review on two CPUs that were cheap and pretty awesome. The Pentium D 805 ($125 at the time) and the Pnetium M (laptop but Asus made a laptop 478PGA to socket 478 desktop adaptor for their mobos).

The Pentium D 805 was cheap and with a decent HSF it would OC like crazy past a Athlon FX and Pentium D EE as well as outperform and because it was based on the later Ceadermill core it was much cooler and 65nm (best for its time).

The Pentium M was the same. OCed very well with proper cooling and outperformed everything out there, considering it was the Core 2 predecessor I can see why it did.



Well AMD cannot handle lowering prices much more, or thats my belief. Their CPUs came out pretty cheap when they were brand new and they had just built a 45nm plant and set it up for it. Thats not cheap and making up the cost of that lies in the CPU pricing itself. AMD needs one chip to be a high end solution that can be priced near Intels high end (LGA1366 Core i7).

ATI is a big part but they still don't consume enough of the market share to fully keep AMD afloat. Hopefully the HD5K series will be able to grab the performance crown and keep it in the wake of nVidias G300 core. But that would only be possible IF nVidias G300 core is just a C200 core with simple stepping updates and tweaks. Every time ATI seems to bash nVidia back down nVidia just knocks ATI right back down to second best.

Don't get me wrong as I love ATI and always have since my 9700Pro. Currently am running a 4870 1GB OCed(its a Sapphire Toxic without the OCing stock, just did it manually and viola Tocix edition HD4870 1GB).

As for AMD and ATI scaling, while they could tweak drivers a bit I will doubt it would be enough to really change the game. AMD needs to be like Intel and get in with game developers to optimize the software for their CPUs. Much like Intel and Microsoft are working together for Windows 7 to be optimized to run even better on Intel CPUs as well as multiple cores (better handling if multiple threads, and I am running Windows 7 Ultimate 64 RTM right now and its fast woot). Just like ATI needs to get back together with the game devs like they did before the AMD buyout. Hell Source is still best played on ATI and has the least problems on ATI. but that was the last game engine I was with the ATI logo on the box.

But if AMD would just work with the software and game devs they could possibly close the gap performance wise to be a more considerable threat overall. I mean Intels software and driver divison is larger than Microsofts. Hell its the largest in the world. I understand AMD is smaller in size but if they truly want to compete that is what they will do instead of trying to beat Intel through sheer muscle.

Well thats my thoughts on it.
 

alikum

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Well said there. Although I agree with you that they should work more with the developers, there's one thing that you ought to understand. AMD does not have full ownership of x86. They pay Intel royalty to produce the their processors. Also, AMD Phenoms support up to only SSE4a, their own version of instruction sets whereas Intel processors offer much more. The instruction sets may not be direct factors that cause the slowdown, but they certainly play a role in the process. I may be wrong but that's what I believe and in case I'm wrong, correct me :).

The 965 is their flagship processor. They can afford to lower prices for 955 and below. Just not the 965 as its their only competitor against 1366 i7.

Like I said, any bright consumers would just pick between 955 and i5 and call it a day. I just find it disturbing to see fanboys coming out with a statement like i5 runs all over 965, reduce it to 150 or below.
 

medjohnson77

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I am not sure that they are Intel fanboys. It could just be that their momy and daddy told them we will get you the 965b.e. when it comes down to $150 dollars. So they see this a perfect time to get there dream processor at $150 bucks. :lol:
 

ComputerNovice

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In what way do the new 1156 socket MOBO's have less on them then AMD's am3 socket type MOBO's ? I mean yes I'm fully aware of the PCI-e difference when your running two GPU's because on the 1156 you can only run x8 x8 where as the am3 socket type boards you can have two x16 PCI-e .. But other than that what else extra features do the AMD boards offer that the new 1156 socket MOBO's don't offer?

Both of them can be expanded to 16Gb's of RAM. So as far as memory their upgrade possibilities are roughly same if not at least close. Also in all the Multi-GPU set-up test that AnandTech performed the Intel Core i7 870 did basically exactly the same FPS rates that the AMD 965BE did... Now trust me I know I don't know a ton about computers so I'm not trying to act like I think I do or anything, I would just like to try to understand both sides of the argument since everyone is mostly on the Intel side of the fence its interesting to get to hear the other side of things. Seeing as with everything there is always two sides to every story.
 

guskline

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I'm one of the "nobodys" the bought the 965BE. Why? I just upgraded from a dual core AMD 939 Toledo 4800 that has been rock solid for years. Intel holds the crown but I'm pleased with AMD. BTW, this quad core is real solid.
 

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