i7 4790K possible bottleneck of RTX 2080?

[filip.kotlik]

Hi,

so the best will probably be list my specs first:

CPU: i7 4790k 4.4 ghz
MB: asus z97-ar
Ram: kingston 16 gb ddr3, 1866mhz
Gpu: rtx 2080 msi gaming x trio
Psu: fractal design 750W 80 gold
Windows 7
Monitor: LG 2560x1080, 75hz
Cpu cooler: noctua... (its massive)

The problem:
Recently i purchased the new rtx 2080 MSI gaming x trio. Upgrading from 980 ti, i thought my fps will fly trough the rooftop. Well that didnt happen. Actually i see only slight performance boost in games. I try to figure out where is the problem using msi afterburner and other build in benchmarks in games. The most problematic is the assassins creed odyssey and origins, where my fps drops under 30 fps, the avererage is 50. Msi afterburner shows that my cpu has 99% usage, and gpu only 60%. I tried to set Resolution modifier to 160% but fps stsyed the same, only gpu and cpu now both on 99%.

Another problematic game is for honor, where my fps is over 120 fps without supersampeling enabled, with it enabled it goes down to 50 fps, but i hsve to have it enabled and set the resolution modifier to 75% because when on the 120 fps, i am experiencing massive fps drops(especially when it rains ingame) from 120 to 30fps, sometimes it locks fps to 30 or 60 all by it self and its super game breaking when tryi g to be competitive, this is weird because vsync is disabled.

Another problematic game is kingdome come deliverence, where i noticed the slightest fps boost, game plays same as with 980 ti, 10 fps more max, textures load still incredibly slow like before, i thought that with more gpu performance this would be eliminated.

Anyway so far i tried: reinstall gpu drivers like 3 times, roll back to the older ones, bios update, nothing helps. I am suspecting is probably the cpu bottleneck but i saw many videos where people have better performance with those games. Also cpu usage hits 99% only in AC games, in for honor and KCD only around 70% So my question is: whst else may be the cause of this trouble? I heard that it may be the slow ddr3 ram, or even dx11 or windows7.

Sorry for long post, i tried to be as specific as i could

 

[Karadjgne]

You have done stuff like turn off the game bar and Xbox DVR stuff right?

 

[filip.kotlik]

You have done stuff like turn off the game bar and Xbox DVR stuff right?

not yet, where are those settings?

 

[boju]

Google disable win10 gamebar / xbox dvr recording. There's heaps on it and seeing as you're asking the question you probably didn't even know Windows was recording your game play automatically. Microsoft these days :\

 

[shknawe]

Make sure your power setting in windows is max performance,go into bios and make sure pci is set for gen 3, Also make sure your pci rail is at 16x. Go in to settings , display and make sure your monitor refresh rate is 75hz. Also in bios make sure your high precision event timer is set to on(hpet). In bios disable all power saving settings. Also did you update your msi afterburner to the newest version to support 2080?

 

[filip.kotlik]

Google disable win10 gamebar / xbox dvr recording. There's heaps on it and seeing as you're asking the question you probably didn't even know Windows was recording your game play automatically. Microsoft these days :\

well i just installed the win10 so id didnt know it has this feature, already disabled, i tried to run the for honor game, no more fps drops, gonna install AC odyssey, hopefully the performance will be better there too.

 

[filip.kotlik]

Make sure your power setting in windows is max performance,go into bios and make sure pci is set for gen 3, Also make sure your pci rail is at 16x. Go in to settings , display and make sure your monitor refresh rate is 75hz. Also in bios make sure your high precision event timer is set to on(hpet). In bios disable all power saving settings. Also did you update your msi afterburner to the newest version to support 2080?

ok so, powerseting set to high performance, pci set from auto to 3gen, pci rial is at 16x, refresh rate is at 75hz, afternburner updated

i didnt find the HPET and power saving settings in the bios, can you specify the location

Anyway i would like to know how do i know what is the maximum clock speed of my cpu, because everywhere i see different value, system specifications says its at 4.0 ghz, asus AI suite says at frequency 100.0 x 49, dont know what to make of that, is that 4.9 ghz, also how do i know the cpu is actually using the turbo boost when playing games?

 

[filip.kotlik]

NOT on 8 cores. On 4 cores and 4 hyperthreads. There's a very real difference. But even so, you can somewhat reduce the problems with the CPU by increasing the quality settings, that is not however going to help you gain more FPS.

I think that, like a lot of people, even with 8th and 9th gen CPUs or second gen Ryzen CPUs, that the bulk of your problem is likely due to the immaturity of the driver platform and a lack of adequate support so far on most titles for the 2000 series cards.

I'd keep checking and updating your Nvidia drivers, daily even just in case, and be sure to do a clean install of those drivers using the DDU EVERY time you update. I'd also check for updated z97 chipset drivers on Intel's website. Often, the motherboard manufacture fails to post newer chipset drivers after a certain point for platforms that are long in the tooth BUT which Intel has actually released newer chipset drivers (Intel .inf) for.

Even my Z170 Skylake i7 had an Intel chipset driver available that was much newer than what ASUS had for download on the Hero VIII product page. You won't get it from Microsoft through updates and you may not get it from your motherboard product page. You'll have to find it on Intel's website if at all.

Same goes for keeping the bios up to date as well if it isn't already.

As for the GPU card driver, you can probably turn off the Microshaft feature that does that. Make sure first though that you are completely up to date on all Windows updates first, then disable the automatic driver crap, then do a clean install of the Nvidia drivers.

http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2763685/stop-windows-automatically-updating-device-drivers.html


http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2767677/perform-clean-install-video-card-drivers.html


Z97 chipset drivers, which ARE in fact a whole year newer than those found on the Z97-AR product page:

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/82012/Intel-Z97-Chipset

So after clean windows 10 install, clean drivers for bios, chipsets, gpu, just everything up to date and running. The performance in AC odyssey is almost same, got from 60% gpu usage to 70%, while the cpu is still on 99% most times. The average fps from benchmark is 47 frames. 2560x1080 resolution with rtx 2080 and getting only 47 frames while gpu that is supposed to run 4k sits at 70% usage. Well if this is not bottleneck than i dont know what it is... As i said, everything is installed new and clean... anyway there is one thing i noticed, when running the game, the cpu clock speed drops from 4900mhz to constant 4500mhz, any ideas why its happening ?

 

[Darkbreeze]

My first thought is that your CPU is being throttled for thermal reasons. Run HWinfo or Core Temp at the same time and see what the core temperatures are at. It's either that or something is configured incorrectly in the bios for your overclock.

What is the model of your Noctua cooler?

Have you checked to see that the heatsink hasn't worked itself loose anywhere or that the thermal paste hasn't maybe dried out?

 

[filip.kotlik]

I thought of that but the temperature rarely goes over 50 degrees while gaming, the cooler is noctua NH - D15 for 1150 socket. I was overcloking it and the max i could get was 4.9, on 5.0 it was unstable and caused blue screens. But thats don know why its only on 4.5 when gaming...

 

[Darkbreeze]

CPUs aren't the only thing that can overheat or experience overstress from voltage when overclocking. It could be a VRM throttle rather than a CPU throttle, and your temps would look normal. Also, your temps will drop considerably within milliseconds of being throttled if it IS the CPU. CPU temps can rise and fall 20 degrees or more instantly.

I would do the following to make sure it isn't heat related and keep a steady eye on the HWinfo thermal sensors WHILE doing it.


Quick and dirty overview of overclocking validation procedure.

Set CPU multiplier and voltage at desired settings in BIOS. Do not use presets or automatic utilities. These will overcompensate on core and other voltages. It is much better to configure most core settings manually, and leave anything left over on auto until a later point in time if wish to come back and tweak settings such as cache (Uncore) frequency, System agent voltage, VCCIO (Internal memory controller) and memory speeds or timings (RAM) AFTER the CPU overclock is fully stable.

Save bios settings (As a new BIOS profile if your bios supports multiple profiles) and exit bios.

Boot into the Windows desktop environment. Download and install Prime95 version 26.6.

Download and install either HWinfo or CoreTemp.

Open HWinfo and run "Sensors only" or open CoreTemp.

Run Prime95 (ONLY version 26.6) and choose the "Small FFT test option". Run this for 15 minutes while monitoring your core/package temperatures to verify that you do not exceed the thermal specifications of your CPU.

(This should be considered to be 80°C for most generations of Intel processor and for current Ryzen CPUs. For older AMD FX and Phenom series, you should use a thermal monitor that has options for "Distance to TJmax" and you want to NOT see distance to TJmax drop below 10°C distance to TJmax. Anything that is MORE than 10°C distance to TJmax is within the allowed thermal envelope.)

If your CPU passes the thermal compliance test, move on to stability.

Download and install Realbench. Run Realbench and choose the Stress test option. Choose a value from the available memory (RAM) options that is equal to approximately half of your installed memory capacity. If you have 16GB, choose 8GB. If you have 8GB, choose 4GB, etc. Click start and allow the stability test to run for 8 hours. Do not plan to use the system for ANYTHING else while it is running. It will run realistic AVX and handbrake workloads and if it passes 8 hours of testing it is probably about as stable as you can reasonably expect.

If you wish to check stability further you can run 12-24 hours of Prime95 Blend mode or Small FFT.

You do not need to simultaneously run HWinfo or CoreTemp while running Realbench as you should have already performed the thermal compliance test PLUS Realbench will show current CPU temperatures while it is running.

If you run the additional stability test using Prime95 Blend/Small FFT modes for 12-24 hours, you will WANT to also run HWinfo alongside it. Monitor HWinfo periodically to verify that no cores/threads are showing less than 100% usage. If it is, then that worker has errored out and the test should be stopped.

If you find there are errors on ANY of the stability tests including Realbench or Prime95, or any other stress testing utility, you need to make a change in the bios. This could be either dropping the multiplier to a lower factor or increasing the voltage while leaving the multiplier the same. If you change voltage or multiplier at ANY time, you need to start over again at the beginning and verify thermal compliance again.

A more in depth but general guide that is still intended for beginners or those who have had a small amount of experience overclocking can be found here:


*CPU overclocking guide for beginners

 

[shknawe]

The higher you overclock your cpu the more your memory is zapped. This could be your fps foot dragging. Go in to bios and let your motherboard overclock your cpu. My motherboard has an easy overclock section listed at the top. It will do a mild overclocking. Leave hig performance setting on in windows. This enables the cpu to be ready at full speed. See if this trade off helps your fps.

 

[filip.kotlik]

I did let my motherboard OC my cpu and it was super unstavle, bsdo every time cpu had to work on 90%, i just set it to deafult settings and let it be. I tried everything and the fps still poor, cpu usage high and gpu usage low, christmas are coming so probaly get my self new cpu mobo and ram and have peace for next 5 years, i7 4790k can still fetch me some good cash to use for new parts

 

[boju]

Its a shame coz 4790k is such a good processor it shouldn't be reaching 100% usages.

Could you post a screenshot of Msi Afterburner of cpu usage stats

Might be an idea to cap your frame rates to 75fps and see where your cpu usages are then. Msi Afterburner allows to cap fps.

Watch this video

[video="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo3EJzHuXok&t=10s"][/video]

 

[shknawe]

Ok try dropping the hz down to 60hz and see if this helps at all. Also in bios under advanced>pch configuration>high precision timer>enable. Also under advanced> pch storage>ahci mode. And what settings are you using in the nvidia control panel?

 

[Karadjgne]

If storage mode is not ahci, you will have to scrap the OS and start over. Changing from ide to ahci will have serious negative affects on any data already on the drive. Ide/ahci etc is the way data is stored, changing it will change how it is recognised, which will be wrong.

 

[filip.kotlik]

How does it help me going to 60 hz when in those heavy cpu games my fps drops go under 30 frames sometimes, i get above 60 only by looking at ground or sky... Pretty sure its set on ahci mode already. Nvidia panel has deafult setting expect some setting is set on maximum performance.

 

[Darkbreeze]

The higher you overclock your cpu the more your memory is zapped. This could be your fps foot dragging. Go in to bios and let your motherboard overclock your cpu. My motherboard has an easy overclock section listed at the top. It will do a mild overclocking. Leave hig performance setting on in windows. This enables the cpu to be ready at full speed. See if this trade off helps your fps.

This is so backasswards I don't even know where to begin. Automatic overclocking features are what leaves performance on the table, because they ALWAYS excessively overvolt the CPU for stability reasons. It's always a better idea to overclock manually and overclocking doesn't "zap" your memory. At all. Ever. In fact, overclocking the CPU generally tends to kick the memory controller in the rear and get working better than at the stock configuration which is often helpful in stabilizing the memory if you are running an XMP profile or custom timings.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I already suggested this earlier, which you disregarded, but if it were ME, and I'm recommending it to YOU as well, I'd do a clean install of Windows along with fresh installations of all the motherboard drivers from the MB product page and a clean install of the GPU card drivers from the Nvidia website. I've already worked two other threads this week where they had similar issues and a CLEAN install, not a refresh or restore, of Windows and the rest of the drivers cleared it right up.

 

[filip.kotlik]

You probably got mistaken by other thread. As I said i bought new windows 10 specifically for this reason. (previously running win7) Bios, chipsets all other drivers are up to date, freshly installed, same goes for nvidia drivers. Total clean slate was done here. Performance got better in some cases (deep fps drops in for honor). But as i said, the gpu usage is still low and cpu usage very hifg in some cases...

 

[boju]

Well high cpu usages can relate to the amount of fps you get. Did you watch the video?

There could be issues with the honor and 2080 or current Nvidia drivers? What other games have you tried?

 

[filip.kotlik]

Yes i did watch it, but i dont think thst concerns me in this case. The guy in the video is getting above 100 fps.

My problem with for honor got fixed, i get above 120 fps, gpu usage is 99%, cpu around 60%, no more stutter or drops to 30 fps.

But games like assassins creed odyssey/ origins still cause me problems, 99% cpu usage, gpu around 60-70, in this game i struggle to hit 60 fps, average is around 48fps, the lowest is around 27 fps. This occurs mainly in areas with lot of npcs like cities. Anyway even when cpu is on 70-80%, the gpu still struggles to hit full usage, sit around 90%, in these cases the fps is around 60 fps, but in benchmarks with same gpu i see peoole hit even 90 fps.

Then i tried Kingdome come deliverance. Same as the AC games in heavy populated areas i get under 30 fps, but have no problems and go above 70 fps in forest with tons of vegetation, there my gpu usage hits 99% usage. But in the cities my cpu usage sky rockets to 70-80% usage and gpu goes down to 70%.

I know these teo games are really flawed for their optimatization, but still doesnt explain why is my performance lower by 30 to 40% than in benchmark videos people posted on YT and have same card, of course they usually have i7 8700k, but as you stated, my i7 4790k shouldnt be an issue.

 

[boju]

Look into game specific threads. Ill do the same.

Fyi, gpu usage doesn't always reach 100% no matter the cpu.

 

[filip.kotlik]

I did, but most of times it says that its cpu bottleneck and that they should get new cpu...

 

[boju]

If 8700k helps ac then go for it. That game is a mess though.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/582160/discussions/0/1693788384137870021/

 

[filip.kotlik]

Yeah well, problem with these treads are that some people comment on it and dont have any idea if their systems are actually performing right. Like i could say, my game runs good, because of course 30 fps is playable but still, i didnt buy rtx 2080 to settle for 30 fps on 2560x1080... Thats a 4k card and this performance is intolerable.

Probably gonna get i7 8086k since is only 20 euro more expensive than i7 8700k in my country. Its limited edition so maybe in long term som collector will buy it from me for nice price. i7 4790k old mobo rams and cooler will still fetch me half of expenses for the new parts.

Do you think its reasonable to ask around 400 euro for i7 4790k, asus mobo Z97-AR, RAM kingston HyperX DDR3 16gb 1866 mhz and cooler Noctua NH-15D?