I7 or XEON Any Suggestions?

[Knuckles2002]

Hello All,

I am in the process of building a workstation for 3D Modeling (3D Max), Max Rendering, Video Editing, Photoshop and other adobe like products. I want to knock out the CPU selection of the build first. With that said I have a couple questions I was hoping someone could help me out with:

PS: Don't worry about cpu cost I am more concerned with power and speed.

1. What is the better way to go for a workstation like this i7 or Xeon?

2. What is the fastest processing speeds to date for the i7 and Xeon?

I am solely looking for top notch CPU speed right now!!

Thank you,

Frank G.

 

[ebalong]

Hello All, I get that I'm just starting out but I rather dump some more into power and speed not just for max but for everything I do. I work on the desktop 15 hours a day. I need something that will make me SMILE from EAR to EAR!! No joke, I don't mind paying for speed it will make me get more done in turn making more money and working happier by all means. I rather stick toward the Xeon's they are a better processor.

Here is what I am looking at:

Motherboard: EVGA Classified SR-X 270-SE

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188119

Processor: 2 x Xeon E5-2670 Sandy Bridge-EP 2.6GHz

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117263

Now will the processor work with that motherboard? And will that be HAPPY FAST? haha thanks as always! Next is the video card yuppppy!!

EVGA's website should have processor compatibility chart somewhere. If you are going the dual cpu route, check out the offerings from Tyan and Supermicro. I have heard that Tyan especially is quite reliable.

 

[k1114]

I wouldn't suggest the srx, it's overpriced. Here's a build although the 2650 and a single k5000 is already hitting 5k. But I did put 8x8gb ram.

■Rosewill THOR V2 Gaming ATX Full Tower Computer Case, support up to E-ATX / XL-ATX, come with Four Fans - 1 x Front Red LED ...
■SeaSonic X Series X-850 (SS-850KM Active PFC F3) 850W ATX12V v2.3 / EPS 12V v2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD ...
■ASUS Z9PE-D16/2L SSI EEB Server Motherboard Dual LGA 2011 DDR3 1600
■PNY VCQK5000-PB NVIDIA Quadro K5000 4GB256-bit PCI Express 3.0 x 16 HDCP Ready Workstation video card
■2x Kingston 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 ECC Registered Server Memory DR x4 Model KVR16R11D4K4/32
■2x COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel ...
■2x Intel Xeon E5-2650 Sandy Bridge-EP 2.0GHz (2.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 2011 95W 8-Core Server Processor BX80621E52650
TOTAL: $5,203.90

 

[Knuckles2002]

EVGA's website should have processor compatibility chart somewhere. If you are going the dual cpu route, check out the offerings from Tyan and Supermicro. I have heard that Tyan especially is quite reliable.

ebalong, I'm not stuck on anything right now. I'm really just trying to learn what's out there. However I know this when this system is done it better SMOKE! Now I just need to figure out what parts will give me that speed. I just feel the i7 wont get me that happy. I rather have 16 cores chopping away at whatever I am doing on the computer.

What I am thinking in my head is this:

Duel socket Xeon's not sure which ones some where between $800.00 and 1,300 per chip. Along with the EVGA motherboard which has a lot of room for grow. Video card I need to find something fast that works well with 3Ds Max and Four monitors. I do like the Quadro 5000 and K111 said it suports 4 monitors. What are your thoughts if that is a no go on maybe 2 x eVGA GeForce GTX 690? As for memory I going to do 64GB of something. And then for storage I was going to do two 480GB Raid 0 and then either another Raid 10 or something with like 3TB of storage for data. I was going to use a Cooler for the processors and maybe a Cooler Master case. Again this is what I am thinking in my head. I think a system like this will be STUPID fast! And will also allow me to grow for years to come.

What are your thoughts on my thoughts above yea or na, good or bad?

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[ebalong]

This is a pretty solid build without going too crazy. Ivy Bridge EP is supposed to hit sometime in late summer/early fall this year, and is rumored to have versions with 10 or 12 cores (don't put too much stock into those rumors yet), so, you might also have an upgrade path with that board (I don't know how easy/difficult it is to update the BIOS on a dual-socket mobo); just in case you find 16 cores/32 threads to not be enough :lol:


Edit: I was referring to K114's suggested build.

 

[ebalong]

ebalong, I'm not stuck on anything right now. I'm really just trying to learn what's out there. However I know this when this system is done it better SMOKE! Now I just need to figure out what parts will give me that speed. I just feel the i7 wont get me that happy. I rather have 16 cores chopping away at whatever I am doing on the computer.

What I am thinking in my head is this:

Duel socket Xeon's not sure which ones some where between $800.00 and 1,300 per chip. Along with the EVGA motherboard which has a lot of room for grow. Video card I need to find something fast that works well with 3Ds Max and Four monitors. I do like the Quadro 5000 and K111 said it suports 4 monitors. What are your thoughts if that is a no go on maybe 2 x eVGA GeForce GTX 690? As for memory I going to do 64GB of something. And then for storage I was going to do two 480GB Raid 0 and then either another Raid 10 or something with like 3TB of storage for data. I was going to use a Cooler for the processors and maybe a Cooler Master case. Again this is what I am thinking in my head. I think a system like this will be STUPID fast! And will also allow me to grow for years to come.

What are your thoughts on my thoughts above yea or na, good or bad?

Thanks again for all your help!

Be careful with your video card model numbers. K1114 was referring to the Kepler-based Quadro K5000 (the Quadro 5000, sans-K, is the now-older Fermi-based card). I would lean towards K1114's advice regarding the motherboard, he is an Expert/Addict

 

[Knuckles2002]

I wouldn't suggest the srx, it's overpriced. Here's a build although the 2650 and a single k5000 is already hitting 5k. But I did put 8x8gb ram.

■Rosewill THOR V2 Gaming ATX Full Tower Computer Case, support up to E-ATX / XL-ATX, come with Four Fans - 1 x Front Red LED ...
■SeaSonic X Series X-850 (SS-850KM Active PFC F3) 850W ATX12V v2.3 / EPS 12V v2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD ...
■ASUS Z9PE-D16/2L SSI EEB Server Motherboard Dual LGA 2011 DDR3 1600
■PNY VCQK5000-PB NVIDIA Quadro K5000 4GB256-bit PCI Express 3.0 x 16 HDCP Ready Workstation video card
■2x Kingston 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 ECC Registered Server Memory DR x4 Model KVR16R11D4K4/32
■2x COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel ...
■2x Intel Xeon E5-2650 Sandy Bridge-EP 2.0GHz (2.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 2011 95W 8-Core Server Processor BX80621E52650
TOTAL: $5,203.90

K1114,

First off thank you very very much for taking the time to do that. I greatly appropriated it. I do have some questions maybe you can give me your thoughts?

How would you rate this system you built here from 1 to 10. 10 being very very very very fast what would you give it?

Cooling:
Would there be more benefit to using a liquid cooled cooler vs the Hyper 212. I was thinking of going with the Cooler Master h60 or h100 for handling the cooling.

Memory:
As for the Kingston memory what are you thoughts of using Corsairs memory?

GPU
The one GPU comments on Neweggs page says "The Quadro is listed as a PCIe 3.0 GPU, however it is not, it is PCIe 2.0 only." Is that true? And the other says "Drivers for most programs such as Autodesk still need to be rolled out." Is that true as well? And the last Comment says "Does not work properly with Dual CPU boards" What do you think?

Motherboard:
Is this a good board compared to the EVGA Classified SR-X? Is it solid and reliable?

Again I'm learning and just want to make sure once I do this build that I did all my research and know exactly what I got and that it is as close to the best of the best. Thanks soooooooo much for everything!

 

[k1114]

I think I would say 9 because it's 8 cores, the highest you can get, but the 2650 is the lowest model at 2ghz, the highest model being 3.1ghz.

The h60 or h100 would be a waste of money in this situation. The h60 is a definite no as the 212 evo is cheaper, quieter and better cooling. The 212 evo will already be 20-30C under safe temps, and even the h100 will be close. If you could overclock the difference in cooling ability would be more apparent but you can't. You'd have an issue finding a case that can hold 2 h100. Also nh d14 or silver arrow costs less and rivals the h100. Although if I were to go that high end I would get the h100i (newer version of h100), the $30 difference vs the nh d14 isn't much in the grand scheme of the build. BTW it's corsair h100 not cooler master.

I don't play favorites for any company except that they are proven reliable and corsair is in that list. But I'd assume you are talking about this ram that you posted in your other thread. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233397 I'd have to say no because of the high heatsinks gets in the way of the cooler, it costs more, fills all ram slots if you wanted 64gb so you can't upgrade easily, and the ones I posted are ecc. Heatsinks are just going to be for looks at 1.5v. Ecc is probably not necessary so you could go with non ecc to save some money.

Pcie version isn't going to affect performance. The card is still new, just came out last month, and autodesk has to sign off on the drivers for it to be on the "certified" list but it still works as it should. I was not aware of this issue, but apparently the dual socket chipsets have an issue with any high end pcie 3.0 gpu because they request a 256mb memory bar. There is a bandaid fix to change the gpu firmware to 128mb for it to work but is not officially available and "should not be used in production." A later mobo bios update should solve the issue. I wouldn't suggest a mobo if it wasn't solid. But this issue is present on all dual socket mobos. The k5000 is better than the 5000 but if you were to need this soon, I think you'd have to get the 5000.

 

[Knuckles2002]

I think I would say 9 because it's 8 cores, the highest you can get, but the 2650 is the lowest model at 2ghz, the highest model being 3.1ghz.

The h60 or h100 would be a waste of money in this situation. The h60 is a definite no as the 212 evo is cheaper, quieter and better cooling. The 212 evo will already be 20-30C under safe temps, and even the h100 will be close. If you could overclock the difference in cooling ability would be more apparent but you can't. You'd have an issue finding a case that can hold 2 h100. Also nh d14 or silver arrow costs less and rivals the h100. Although if I were to go that high end I would get the h100i (newer version of h100), the $30 difference vs the nh d14 isn't much in the grand scheme of the build. BTW it's corsair h100 not cooler master.

I don't play favorites for any company except that they are proven reliable and corsair is in that list. But I'd assume you are talking about this ram that you posted in your other thread. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233397 I'd have to say no because of the high heatsinks gets in the way of the cooler, it costs more, fills all ram slots if you wanted 64gb so you can't upgrade easily, and the ones I posted are ecc. Heatsinks are just going to be for looks at 1.5v. Ecc is probably not necessary so you could go with non ecc to save some money.

Pcie version isn't going to affect performance. The card is still new, just came out last month, and autodesk has to sign off on the drivers for it to be on the "certified" list but it still works as it should. I was not aware of this issue, but apparently the dual socket chipsets have an issue with any high end pcie 3.0 gpu because they request a 256mb memory bar. There is a bandaid fix to change the gpu firmware to 128mb for it to work but is not officially available and "should not be used in production." A later mobo bios update should solve the issue. I wouldn't suggest a mobo if it wasn't solid. But this issue is present on all dual socket mobos. The k5000 is better than the 5000 but if you were to need this soon, I think you'd have to get the 5000.

No not in a major rush to get it. I rather do my diligence before rushing off and making mistakes. But you do think they would correct it the GPU that is? As for the system build you have there I might play with it again i'm not stuck on my 5k budget if I have to go to 6 I would for the boost but for now I just want to see what's on there overall then try and make some smart decisions.

Can any of the Xeon Families be overclocked if so which ones. Also is it really recommended to overclock things I know you run risks of damaging or breaking things do it.

As for the cooler yes I stand corrected it is Corsairs. I was only thinking of that to keep the system running as cool as possible so it performs even better. I will take a peak at the h100i series and see.

As for the memory, I am going to put in 64 or more in because I can use a lot of that as a Ram drive to. And I was just wondering if there are any real differences between 64mg from Kingston vs Corsair's Platinum 64mg. Even tho both are 1600mghz. Can the board you provided take even faster then that like 2200?

The GPU card seemed very promising, fast and render nicely on the youtube video review for it. And I like that I can run my four monitors on it.

Again I can't thank you enough for all your help!!

 

[ebalong]

Can any of the Xeon Families be overclocked if so which ones. Also is it really recommended to overclock things I know you run risks of damaging or breaking things do it.

The clock multiplier on any of the newer Xeons is locked. Apparently, you can still play with the baseclock to squeeze a small overclock out of them, but I don't think it would amount to much and it's not recommended. Remember, Xeons are supposed to be the more "stable" brother of the i7. Overclocking them would kind of defeat that purpose.

If you want Xeon and faster, then pony up for (2) E5-2687W beast processors.

If you want to overclock then get a 3930K, an NH-D14 cooler, and run it at 4.6-4.8GHz. It will trounce the Xeons in single-threaded operations, but come up short in heavily multi-threaded stuff.

 

[k1114]

As long as you know the voltage and temps limits you have nothing to worry about ocing but none of the modern xeons can. Stability wouldn't be an issue if done right.

Cooler temps does not make it perform better. The only important thing is that it isn't overheating. And as I said, only when you are pushing the ocing limits will you really see the difference in the cooling ability. With the 2650 you are bound to really only see ~2C difference for 4x the price over the evo.

When getting ram you really shouldn't fill all you ram slots at first in case you need to upgrade. I doubt you would fill 64gb but also 8x8gb costs less than 16x4gb even when you are looking at other companies besides corsair and kingston. The only other difference is ecc and cl 11 vs non ecc and cl10 (plus the heatsink issue). There is such a small difference to faster ram that it is not worth it. http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/memory/2011/01/11/the-best-memory-for-sandy-bridge/4

 

[Stoochtv]

Hold your horses there. What makes xeons special is binning. Intel cherry picks the best examples that run the coolest at lowest TDP per clock and turn these into xeons, I7s are just refused xeons and disabled features. So yes, having a cooler running CPU will naturally translate to longevity, since heat is basically eating away at the lithography over time..

I built a dual E5-2390v2 rig with 128gigs of ram on an asus ATX mobo and lian li case, with dual corsair water coolers, this thing chews through more work than any single OCed I7 would, silently, efficiently, and does this rock solidly, 24/7. I will not overclock any of my workstations, these are not toys and time spent tinkering is time that could be used to make more money, if you are buying a work station, and you are using this to make money, the cost of the tools is a tax write-off. don't compromise with lost productivity.

Save money by not buying a quaddro, and put that into CPU and a geforce with many cuda cores.

if money is tight, buy a single CPU at a time, just be aware that you need both cpus to use all of your total ram, so plan accordinly. I recommend samsung ECC ram in 16gig DIMM size.

You'd want to go Xeon's based on your desire to have a workstation (vs a consumer PC) and the kind of software you're likely to be running.

Look at ECC Registered x4 (not x8) RAM too, and plan to keep the thing around 'til it has 128GB of RAM if you can.

Many individuals, and even companies use regular i7's (even i5's) for "workstations". Don't just parrot Intel marketing literature. It's a little more complicated than just "you need a Xeon and a Quadro for a workstation, end of story".

Rather than just repeating marketing hype, why don't you link to tests, comparisons, benchmarks or other examples that illustrate the difference between Xeons and "consumer" grade processors, in those type of programs that the OP listed, so everyone has a chance to be more informed?

Xeons are allegedly more "reliable" and "durable" under the constant, heavy usage that you would have in a work situation. At least that is what Intel "says". OK then, where is the data to support this? Forgive me if I do not just take Intel's word for it, I need to see some proof.

What does ECC RAM do for CAD and Graphic Design software? How much does that really increase performance and reliability with those programs? Show us.

As others stated, you would need to jump up to a Xeon if you felt you could benefit with more than 6 cores (currently the limit for non-Xeon i7's) or you want to have a dual-CPU setup. If you have the budget and you are doing lots of CPU-based rendering (3DS Max Mental Ray), then, yes - you most likely want Xeons and 8-16 cores. However, bear in mind that for the programs that utilize GPU-acceleration (iray, Vray-RT, some of your Adobe software) you really just need something with a lot of CUDA cores, and the right driver support. Supposedly, even the GTX-5xx Geforces perform well in this regard, look around for some benchmarks and performance comparisons. The Kepler 6xx Geforces are reportedly hamstrung from performing GPGPU up there with the pro cards, though; I guess Nvidia wasn't too appreciative of the fact that folks could get pretty good GPU acceleration off of their "gaming" cards.

If you are saying money is no concern, than by all means, go all out and get dual E5-2687W Xeons (each one will set you back ~$1,800-$1,900), for the cores and the high clocks (the less expensive E5 Xeons are slower) and a Quadro along with a Tesla, for the ultimate in CAD performance and GPU acceleration.

 

[pauls3743]

Hold yer horses???

This thread is almost a year old. Whatever the OP chose to do will have been done many, many moons ago.

I would also question your binning theory for i7s/xeons as I simply don't believe it. I don't believe they would bin a failed xeon as an i7 with a higher tdp and a higher clock speed. I can believe them binning a failed higher spec xeon as a lower xeon but NOT an i7.

 

[k1114]

Hold your horses there. What makes xeons special is binning. Intel cherry picks the best examples that run the coolest at lowest TDP per clock and turn these into xeons, I7s are just refused xeons and disabled features. So yes, having a cooler running CPU will naturally translate to longevity, since heat is basically eating away at the lithography over time..

I built a dual E5-2390v2 rig with 128gigs of ram on an asus ATX mobo and lian li case, with dual corsair water coolers, this thing chews through more work than any single OCed I7 would, silently, efficiently, and does this rock solidly, 24/7. I will not overclock any of my workstations, these are not toys and time spent tinkering is time that could be used to make more money, if you are buying a work station, and you are using this to make money, the cost of the tools is a tax write-off. don't compromise with lost productivity.

Save money by not buying a quaddro, and put that into CPU and a geforce with many cuda cores.

if money is tight, buy a single CPU at a time, just be aware that you need both cpus to use all of your total ram, so plan accordinly. I recommend samsung ECC ram in 16gig DIMM size.

You do get a popup saying the thread is over 3 months or something along those lines.

IBEP was shown to use 3 dies, a 6 core which is used for i7 and xeon, and a 10 and 12 core which are only xeons. They do bin xeon and i7 but the issue is it's not a valid reason to choose xeons as they are similar power and heat. With the smaller processes of today, a defect is more likely to be a failure. I wouldn't doubt many "lower" bins still qualify to be higher models. Longevity isn't even a concern as even a oc i7 will outlast its usefulness. The most common reasons to go with xeon are ecc or mult cpu configs, not the binning advantage.

You are comparing the cpu performance of $4k with 20 cores vs $600 with 6 cores? Well that's a fair comparison. Also with quadros you contradict yourself saying to go with geforce. They do similar binning with gpus as well as having ecc. With workstation builds such as this which is purely a workstation I always suggest workstation parts. It's also better performance/$ as well as more efficient to go with dual cpus.

 

[Knuckles2002]

Hello All,

First and foremost a Hugh THANK YOU to all of you for your help!!!!

I think i'm more confused now then ever before haha!! I haven't did my purchase yet I did a lot of research and looking around on the net and between work, play and family I just couldn't find the time to nail it out. I now without a doubt need one bad because the system I am on now is maxed out. But what confuses my even more is Cloud rendering added to the mix. I started using it around the middle of the past year and fired up over 30 Quad workstations to render a project that would have taking me 30 plus hours on my computer but ended up only being 2 hours from the cloud.

Now I'm wondering is it even worth going for Xeon since any heavy rendering I will just do over the cloud. However, keep in mind I still want a very fast computer to complete the max projects or graphic design stuff.

So now the question is do I still lean towards Xeon or say the heck with the costs and overclock an i7 instead since it will only render simple things to test projects but once i'm ready to really render it send it to the cloud.

Right now I am looking at Xeon E5 series or Extreme i7 (water cooled/overclocked). Cost is not the issue I just want to be very very happy with the performance. I don't want it to pause, delay, drag and feel slow. From what I have gathered in my research is Quadro is the way to go. Not saying there isn't cheaper cards that are very compatible with the software but I wouldn't even know where to look with soooooooo much out there already.

What are you thoughts? Thanks again fellas for you knowledge and help!!

 

[k1114]

You can get dual e5 and outperform an oc i7.

 

[80sogre]

you know Nvidia are releasing their new Maxwell geforce 800 series in the first quarter of 2014. it's a new architecture with what they call stacked memory. first GPUs to have their own CPUs as well. might be worth waiting a little bit.