[SOLVED] i7700k upgrade to?

[Tiebar90]

Hello all.
I want to get some input from the experts here

I currently have;
i7 7700k 4.2Ghz
RTX 2080 MSI TRIO
32GB DDR4 3600
2.5TB SSD( mixed between 3 SSDs)
h100i pro cooler
32in 1440p 144hz monitor

So im starting to notice the age of my 7700k. I bought it brand new in around 2017 and i have loved it but its starting to show its age for sure. Newer games I am noticing drops in FPS and almost to maxed out CPU usage with some games even maxed 100% usage and causing a lot of sluttering.

Id like to just upgrade my CPU and MOBO as im very content with the rest of my system unless you guys have some other suggestions. Im not looking to drop $1000+ for a new build though, especially with the prices of components right now.

Ive done some looking into some cpus and I like what i see with the i5 12600k but I imagine a lot of older CPUs will be a significant upgrade from my i7 as well.
Example being;

12600k($297) vs 11600k($249)

I dont mind an older model if its going to last my years to come too. Im not an FPS addict or must have the new version of everything and willing to spend more and more money to go from 120fps to 150fps, etc.

But the issues im starting to see with these CPUs is the upgrade ill need for a MOBO seems to be expensive as well. So I am not sure what is a good balance for that either, a better cpu with okay mobo or a slightly older cpu with a better mobo? idk.

So what do you guys suggest? Open to all.

 

[geofelt]

Some passmark numbers for you:
I7-7700K 8 9689/2745
I5-11600K 12 20009/3384
I5-12600K 16 23949/3946
You have 8 processing threads, looking at 12 or 16.
Most games will not effectively use more than 4-6 threads. Multiplayer excepted.
The key number for most games is the single thread performance numbers(the last one)
For that, the 12600K would be best.
If you have overclocked, you may be doing better.
Run the CPU-Z bench app and look at your single thread rating.
It should be about 553.
12600K is 773
http://valid.x86.fr/bench/bhgfiz/1

Your DDR4 ram is perfect. Z690 based DDR4 motherboards work very well.
No need for enthusiast overclocking motherboards.
The turbo mechanism will increase the performance of a couple cores past what an all core overclock will do. That depends on keeping heat under control.

You will probably need a lga1700 mounting kit for the H100.
But, aio coolers do not last forever. In time, air intrudes and it needs to be replaced.
I think it is about time for replacement.

 

[DRagor]

Intel 12th gen by all means. Don't even look at 10th and 11th gen - they were running too hot and will lose value very fast now because of how good 12th gen is. The only problem for 12th gen is expensive motherboards - it looks like even lower level ones (B660 models) will be way more expensive then last generation(s). However CPUs are too good to pass, even if you will need to pair them with worse motherboard.

 

[MEMOFLEX]

Hello bud,

If you are prepared to hold on for the release of the 12400 and B660 motherboards then they are likely to be a very good option. You will get a massive CPU performance uplift without breaking the bank.

You already mentioned the 12600k which is also a very good CPU but I am not sure until l see the reviews of the 12400 whether the increase in cost at 1440p would be worth it.

The 5000 series AMD processors are also very good and you could not go wrong with them either.

Only thing to consider is the cooler compatibility though as the new shape and height of the 12th gen cpus may mean a new cooler is required.

 

[Tiebar90]

Intel 12th gen by all means. Don't even look at 10th and 11th gen - they were running too hot and will lose value very fast now because of how good 12th gen is. The only problem for 12th gen is expensive motherboards - it looks like even lower level ones (B660 models) will be way more expensive then last generation(s). However CPUs are too good to pass, even if you will need to pair them with worse motherboard.

So you dont think I should even consider something like an 11600k huh? Makes sense as I went for the newer back when the 7700k came out and look how long it lasted me.
I also did find a cheaper motherboards for the 12600k. Not many reviews on it but a lot of the cons on the reviews there dont really bother me, one example being RGB.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E168131...&ranSiteID=8BacdVP0GFs-9zzRpaanf7mGiJTVUGpENQ

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09GLD6LYW?tag=pcpapi-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1

What do you think?

Hello bud,

If you are prepared to hold on for the release of the 12400 and B660 motherboards then they are likely to be a very good option. You will get a massive CPU performance uplift without breaking the bank.

You already mentioned the 12600k which is also a very good CPU but I am not sure until l see the reviews of the 12400 whether the increase in cost at 1440p would be worth it.

The 5000 series AMD processors are also very good and you could not go wrong with them either.

Only thing to consider is the cooler compatibility though as the new shape and height of the 12th gen cpus may mean a new cooler is required.

You think the 12400s will be cheaper then the 12600K I can get for $297? Will it be a significant bump in performance over the 12600K too ? because thats where im not willing to spend additional money on a cooler just to get a little more performance and have the newest model.
But if the jump is even significant from 12600k vs a new 12400 then I could possibly wait.
I also have always had intel and never AMD I dont trash AMD but ive always just stayed on the Intel train so to speak.

I always thought AMD was cheaper than intel? Like buying Chrysler vs Cadillac lol.

 

[Tiebar90]

Some passmark numbers for you:
I7-7700K 8 9689/2745
I5-11600K 12 20009/3384
I5-12600K 16 23949/3946
You have 8 processing threads, looking at 12 or 16.
Most games will not effectively use more than 4-6 threads. Multiplayer excepted.
The key number for most games is the single thread performance numbers(the last one)
For that, the 12600K would be best.
If you have overclocked, you may be doing better.
Run the CPU-Z bench app and look at your single thread rating.
It should be about 553.
12600K is 773
http://valid.x86.fr/bench/bhgfiz/1

Your DDR4 ram is perfect. Z690 based DDR4 motherboards work very well.
No need for enthusiast overclocking motherboards.
The turbo mechanism will increase the performance of a couple cores past what an all core overclock will do. That depends on keeping heat under control.

You will probably need a lga1700 mounting kit for the H100.
But, aio coolers do not last forever. In time, air intrudes and it needs to be replaced.
I think it is about time for replacement.

So your vote seems to go for the 12600k as well.

You are also the second person who has mentioned the cooler becoming incompatible which is something I am a bit disappointing in hearing.

Will I need a mounting kit/ new cooler for all newer cpus? or just for the 12 series

 

[Tiebar90]

I just answered my own question about which CPUs are compatible with my cooler.

Looks like it is the new 12 series. So something like the 11600k or similar with the lga 1200 will fit.
I cant find anything online about a mounting kit.

 

[geofelt]

So your vote seems to go for the 12600k as well.

You are also the second person who has mentioned the cooler becoming incompatible which is something I am a bit disappointing in hearing.

Will I need a mounting kit/ new cooler for all newer cpus? or just for the 12 series

Actually, I think you would be perfectly pleased with the 12600K
If budget were not an issue, you could go higher, but we all have budgets.

You need to do some research as to fitting your H100 on a lga1700 motherboard.
Not only the mounting pins are a bit different, but the height if the cpu is a bit lower.
Cooler makers are offering kits that address both issues.
Many offer kits free for the asking, or at least for a modest $10 or so.

My concern with the H100 is that it may not have enough remaining useful life.
What is the make/model of your case?
I would, in time, be looking at a top air cooler for replacement.
If you think about it, your H100i 240 cooler has two 120mm radiators that offer almost the same amount of radiator space as, for example a Noctua NH-D15s that costs half as much.
The difference is where the heat exchange takes place.

On the motherboard, I have no particular opinion.
I use the MSI Z690 A PRO ddr4 wifi motherboard.
I have had no issues with it:
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144488

 

[Tiebar90]

Actually, I think you would be perfectly pleased with the 12600K
If budget were not an issue, you could go higher, but we all have budgets.

You need to do some research as to fitting your H100 on a lga1700 motherboard.
Not only the mounting pins are a bit different, but the height if the cpu is a bit lower.
Cooler makers are offering kits that address both issues.
Many offer kits free for the asking, or at least for a modest $10 or so.

My concern with the H100 is that it may not have enough remaining useful life.
What is the make/model of your case?
I would, in time, be looking at a top air cooler for replacement.
If you think about it, your H100i 240 cooler has two 120mm radiators that offer almost the same amount of radiator space as, for example a Noctua NH-D15s that costs half as much.
The difference is where the heat exchange takes place.

I am excited at the SIGNIFICANT increase of the 12600k vs the 7700k on userbenchmark. I would really like to go with this as the next cheapest thing is a 11600k for $249. At that point I would be crazy not to get the 12600k for $297.

But as to a higher budget= a higher cpu, what cpu did you have in mind? I am all for cost saving but if increase cost=significant longevity then I will spend the extra money.

Also, This is my computer case

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MDS8L83/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

As to the fitting of my h100, cosair actually has this listed on their website. So it looks like that could be a solution.

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Accessories-|-Parts/PC-Components/Cooling/LGA1700-Retrofit-Kit/p/CW-8960091#tab-faqs

But I wont lie, you have peaked my interest in cooling now. I said I do not want to spend more money if not needed but if it will be a better benefit for the future of cooling I might as well replace a cooler while everythings open and im already needing to put new thermalpaste on the cpu, right?

So you think theres something that would be a better solution than my h100? Because I do watch my temps and at 5-10% idle cpu usage i run at about 27-32 degrees c and under heavy gaming load i run to about 55-65 degrees depending on that load, with the understanding these kaby lakes run a little hotter then others.

I feel silly as I do not fully understand what you mean by "top air cooler". Are you suggesting a new top radiator, or even switching to air cooling entirely instead of liquid cooling?

If I was to get the 12600k, what do you think about these two mobos?


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B..._title_dp_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A23178DG44YSZ6

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119511?Item=N82E16813119511&nm_mc=AFC-RAN-COM&cm_mmc=AFC-RAN-COM&utm_medium=affiliates&utm_source=afc-PCPartPicker&AFFID=2558510&AFFNAME=PCPartPicker&ACRID=1&ASID=https://pcpartpicker.com/&ranMID=44583&ranEAID=2558510&ranSiteID=8BacdVP0GFs-9zzRpaanf7mGiJTVUGpENQ

 

[Bob.B]

Hello all.
I want to get some input from the experts here

I currently have;
i7 7700k 4.2Ghz
RTX 2080 MSI TRIO
32GB DDR4 3600
2.5TB SSD( mixed between 3 SSDs)
h100i pro cooler
32in 1440p 144hz monitor

So im starting to notice the age of my 7700k. I bought it brand new in around 2017 and i have loved it but its starting to show its age for sure. Newer games I am noticing drops in FPS and almost to maxed out CPU usage with some games even maxed 100% usage and causing a lot of sluttering.

Id like to just upgrade my CPU and MOBO as im very content with the rest of my system unless you guys have some other suggestions. Im not looking to drop $1000+ for a new build though, especially with the prices of components right now.

Ive done some looking into some cpus and I like what i see with the i5 12600k but I imagine a lot of older CPUs will be a significant upgrade from my i7 as well.
Example being;

12600k($297) vs 11600k($249)

I dont mind an older model if its going to last my years to come too. Im not an FPS addict or must have the new version of everything and willing to spend more and more money to go from 120fps to 150fps, etc.

But the issues im starting to see with these CPUs is the upgrade ill need for a MOBO seems to be expensive as well. So I am not sure what is a good balance for that either, a better cpu with okay mobo or a slightly older cpu with a better mobo? idk.

So what do you guys suggest? Open to all.

Some reading.

News - Intel Core i5-12400 Review: Budget Gaming Supremacy

Intel's unreleased Core i5-12400 is the fastest sub-$200 gaming chip on the market. Intel Core i5-12400 Review: Budget Gaming Supremacy : Read more

forums.tomshardware.com

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/i...lder-lake-s-desktop-chips-new-laminar-coolers

 

[geofelt]

You used the h100 link instead of a link to the case.

On cooling. 10-15c. over ambient is good. Many will worry about exceeding some higher number, but excepting stress tests we usually run at less than full load.
Turn on Hwmonitor and run the simple CPU-Z stress test.
You are looking for a max of 100c at which point the cpu will slow down to protect itself.
Sounds like there is no immediate need to change coolers.

By "top air" I meant a beefy twin tower cooler.
Noctua maintains a list of suitable coolers for processors.
Here is the one for the 12600k:
https://ncc.noctua.at/cpus/model/Intel-Core-i5-12600K-1581

FWIW, here is an older review which includes a comparison between NH-D15 and H100i
https://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nh-d15-versus-closed-loop-liquid-coolers/1
Basically a wash, excepting the NH-D15 was quieter.

On motherboards, either would work.
But, Intel now includes wifi.
I would opt for the wifi version of either of those two motherboards. Probably $20 more.
I would opt for wifi if it could be at all useful to you.

You could also save perhaps $25 by opting for the i5-12600KF which does not have integrated graphics. But, I found motherboard graphics to be very useful during testing.

 

[Tiebar90]

Some reading.

News - Intel Core i5-12400 Review: Budget Gaming Supremacy

Intel's unreleased Core i5-12400 is the fastest sub-$200 gaming chip on the market. Intel Core i5-12400 Review: Budget Gaming Supremacy : Read more

forums.tomshardware.com

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/i...lder-lake-s-desktop-chips-new-laminar-coolers

That is some interesting reading. That looks like a killer CPU for less than $200. But how would it compare to a 12600k? Unless I missed something it looks like specifics like that would come until its released and mass used.

 

[Tiebar90]

You used the h100 link instead of a link to the case.

On cooling. 10-15c. over ambient is good. Many will worry about exceeding some higher number, but excepting stress tests we usually run at less than full load.
Turn on Hwmonitor and run the simple CPU-Z stress test.
You are looking for a max of 100c at which point the cpu will slow down to protect itself.
Sounds like there is no immediate need to change coolers.

By "top air" I meant a beefy twin tower cooler.
Noctua maintains a list of suitable coolers for processors.
Here is the one for the 12600k:
https://ncc.noctua.at/cpus/model/Intel-Core-i5-12600K-1581

FWIW, here is an older review which includes a comparison between NH-D15 and H100i
https://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nh-d15-versus-closed-loop-liquid-coolers/1
Basically a wash, excepting the NH-D15 was quieter.

On motherboards, either would work.
But, Intel now includes wifi.
I would opt for the wifi version of either of those two motherboards. Probably $20 more.
I would opt for wifi if it could be at all useful to you.

You could also save perhaps $25 by opting for the i5-12600KF which does not have integrated graphics. But, I found motherboard graphics to be very useful during testing.

Yeah I noticed that link once i submitted I apologize. I tried to edit the link before you may of saw it. Here is my case

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MDS8L83/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I also just ran the stress test and my core temps went to 52-58 degrees C under the stress test with cpu-z

I also do run a hardwired internet connection but would be open to a wifi built into the mobo because you never know what the future connection may come to be. I do have an external USB wifi adapter though. a netgear ac1900.

I just did a google search for the 12600KF and they all seem to be out of stock a lot of places, but would totally save $20 as i dont really care about motherboard graphics.

But it seems like I should figure out a pair for the 12600k as it seems like even though anything older would still be an upgrade, its not worth it in the end.

 

[Bob.B]

That is some interesting reading. That looks like a killer CPU for less than $200. But how would it compare to a 12600k? Unless I missed something it looks like specifics like that would come until its released and mass used.

When they hit the market you'll see the reviews on the cpu's/mobo's/coolers.

Then you make a choice.

 

[Tiebar90]

When they hit the market you'll see the reviews on the cpu's/mobo's/coolers.

Then you make a choice.

Looks like they are releasing this month too? jan 2022

 

[geofelt]

Love the case and the 200mm front intakes!
A great one for air cooling.

Here is a review of the new offerings:
The main difference I see for gaming is that the max turbo of the 12600K is 4900 vs 4400
The cooling load would also be less.

I guess you just get what you pay for.
In my experience, I have often had lingering regrets buying the budget item, but the regrets paying too much for something best does not last long.

 

[Tiebar90]

Love the case and the 200mm front intakes!
A great one for air cooling.

Here is a review of the new offerings:
The main difference I see for gaming is that the max turbo of the 12600K is 4900 vs 4400
The cooling load would also be less.

I guess you just get what you pay for.
In my experience, I have often had lingering regrets buying the budget item, but the regrets paying too much for something best does not last long.

Thanks! I love this case. I had a full glass case and the cooling was horrible so i upgraded to this and my temps dropped significantly.

What max turbo is 4400? If we are talking about the 11600k it states the max turbo is also 4900.

 

[DSzymborski]

Honestly, I'd avoid the F CPUs unless you have a spare GPU. GPUs do fail and given the difficulty of obtaining new GPUs even before considering the added expense, $20 is a small cost to pay for having a working PC without a GPU vs. not having one.

 

[geofelt]

Thanks! I love this case. I had a full glass case and the cooling was horrible so i upgraded to this and my temps dropped significantly.

What max turbo is 4400? If we are talking about the 11600k it states the max turbo is also 4900.

I omitted the link that talked about the 12400; that is the 4400 turbo which caused confusion.
The post has been edited.
Here again:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1716...-lake-22-new-desktops-cpus-8-new-laptoph-cpus

Also, do not fixate on just clocks.
The 11th gen was some 19% better performance per clock architecturally.
And, better yet, 12th gen is another 19% on top of that.
Of course, be careful about these claims. It will depend on the workloads used for testing which will be different from yours.

 

[Karadjgne]

10900/k basically tied or beat the 11900/k in most production apps and multiple games. The lack of 2 cores and their lcache killed the 11th gen 19% advantage. 12th gen is different in that it has extra eco cores, which while not great performance, make a solid contribution overall.

I'd not do a 12400. Cheap cpu, expensive mobo, and if ddr5 even more expensive ram, which barely beats a Ryzen 3600. It's a big expense to get lackluster performance. The 12600k is different, that generally beats the 5600x and even the 5800x at times, for minimal expense over the 12400.

 

[Tiebar90]

I omitted the link that talked about the 12400; that is the 4400 turbo which caused confusion.
The post has been edited.
Here again:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1716...-lake-22-new-desktops-cpus-8-new-laptoph-cpus

Also, do not fixate on just clocks.
The 11th gen was some 19% better performance per clock architecturally.
And, better yet, 12th gen is another 19% on top of that.
Of course, be careful about these claims. It will depend on the workloads used for testing which will be different from yours.

10900/k basically tied or beat the 11900/k in most production apps and multiple games. The lack of 2 cores and their lcache killed the 11th gen 19% advantage. 12th gen is different in that it has extra eco cores, which while not great performance, make a solid contribution overall.

I'd not do a 12400. Cheap cpu, expensive mobo, and if ddr5 even more expensive ram, which barely beats a Ryzen 3600. It's a big expense to get lackluster performance. The 12600k is different, that generally beats the 5600x and even the 5800x at times, for minimal expense over the 12400.

Ahh okay i see now.

we seem to arrive at the 12600k again. Seems a 12600k matched with one of the motherboards i posted plus the retrofit kit will be the best overall. I was just doing some research into those retrofit kits and it seems like its taking people forever to get them shipped so that will really suck ordering these parts to then wait for 4 screws.
I also find some i7 cpus like the 12700k but userbenchmark seems to have 12600k so close to it, so the extra cost over the 12600k doesnt seem worth it.

so it seems to be do i have the patience to wait lmao

 

[Bob.B]

Ahh okay i see now.

we seem to arrive at the 12600k again. Seems a 12600k matched with one of the motherboards i posted plus the retrofit kit will be the best overall. I was just doing some research into those retrofit kits and it seems like its taking people forever to get them shipped so that will really suck ordering these parts to then wait for 4 screws.
I also find some i7 cpus like the 12700k but userbenchmark seems to have 12600k so close to it, so the extra cost over the 12600k doesnt seem worth it.

so it seems to be do i have the patience to wait lmao

If you want this today then you shop for today's parts.

If you can wait until tomorrow the 12xxx non k will be out with the affordable mobo's and new stock coolers.

Your call.

 

[Tiebar90]

After looking around, with some gift cards from christmas, I purchased the 12600k with an msi pro z690 mobo for a total of $360.

I found a set up for an 11600k and mobo for $230 but for $140 more I figured the investment into the newer processor was much more worth it.

 

[Why_Me]

I'd not do a 12400. Cheap cpu, expensive mobo, and if ddr5 even more expensive ram, which barely beats a Ryzen 3600. It's a big expense to get lackluster performance. The 12600k is different, that generally beats the 5600x and even the 5800x at times, for minimal expense over the 12400.

The i5 12400F beats the Ryzen 5600x like a rented mule.

Review of that cpu w/benchmarks.

https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/core-i5-12400-processor-review,1.html

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/core_i5_12400_processor_review,25.html

From the link:

Of course, platform cost comes into play, DDR5 makes little sense for this proc, ergo if you can find a cheapo B660 DDR4 compatible motherboard, my advice would be to pursue that as a more valuable option. Alder Lake processors are not bandwidth limited, latency is where the answer is to be found. That means 3600 CL16 DDR4 can haul ass here. All lights for the Core i5 12400 are green, low energy consumption, and as a side effect of that, it's easy to keep cool as well. So if you have avid needs for your PC and are not a content creator demanding many threaded applications, then the proc will serve you extremely well as a desktop processor. For gaming, this CPU is downright excellent even with the fastest graphics cards, period. An affordable CPU does need an affordable infrastructure though, see keep in mind what I stated about B660 and DDR4 okay? But yeah man, the Core i5 12400 is absolutely a processor we can highly recommend.

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-12400f-core-i5-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118360
Intel Core i5-12400F $179.99

Pair that cpu up with a B660 DDR4 board. The B660 boards should be available either this Thursday or Friday.

Here's an example of one of those boards that should be reasonably priced.

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B660M-GAMING-X-AX-DDR4-rev-1x#kf

Alder Lake DDR4 gaming benchmarks

 

[geofelt]

After looking around, with some gift cards from christmas, I purchased the 12600k with an msi pro z690 mobo for a total of $360.

I found a set up for an 11600k and mobo for $230 but for $140 more I figured the investment into the newer processor was much more worth it.

I think you were wise. Had you bought the 11600K, you would have enjoyed the lower price briefly, but you would have had longer lingering thoughts about the decision.
Since you had the budget for a 12600K, the higher price stung for only a short time.

And, likely you could use the H100i as is if you used a thermal pad instead of grease.


Here is a video about the issues:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOOn1znlICA

Note that the presenter used thermal pads and not grease.
That helped to be a bit thicker to offset the lower height of the cpu die.

It looks to me that the main purpose of the 4 screws is to lower the cooler to get adequate pressure.

On the motherboard, I found that the motherboard lan did not connect out of the box. It needed the correct driver.
To get the driver, you would need internet access, hence catch 22.
If you have wifi either on the motherboard or via a adapter, there is no problem.
That is what I did. I tried to download the driver from msi using a different pc and a usb stick, but did not find the right one.
What works is to download a msi driver manager app that will do the job.
This is more complicated than it needed to be.
Also, download the user manual somewhere ahead of time. A paper manual is not included in the box.