IDC: Lack of Start Button Deflates Windows 8 Interest

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"An IDC analyst says that potential Windows 8 users are turned off by a lack of a Start menu."

How much did that genius get paid to come to such an amazing conclusion? What a fking joke. Can't believe he/she actually recieves money for regurgitating the same things people have been saying here and every other forum for many, many months.
 
[citation][nom]benji720[/nom]Or they can use Classic Shell which does the same thing and saves you $5.[/citation]
$5 on top of a OS you've already spent cash on.

Really i don't get this logic.
 
[citation][nom]KenTX[/nom]Oh good grief.. Microsoft knows EXACTLY what they are doing and we all need to get real about what's going on here. And what is that mind you? Windows 8 is 99% about Microsoft attempting to lock down and gate software development in the desktop sector and about 1% about implementing touch functionality. I find it amusing with all the blame that Steve Sinofsky has been getting over this when in reality, this idea probably sprang forth in that pointy bald little head of Steve Ballmer. Bottom line? Microsoft wants every bit' of the computing landscape to be an appliance.. one that they have complete control over down to the hardware. Pretty sad isn't it? and they will come up with every excuse to do this.. including "security" and "piracy". I'll stop here but hopefully, I really don't have to explain why people shouldn't give up their liberties for the crap and if you are all smart? you will avoid this garbage like the plague. If Microsoft wants to introduce a touch interface and an app store? fine.. but don't make it obligatory and leave it open! Just focus on the platform and get your fingers out of my hardware.. and get the hell off of my liberties![/citation]

The USERS want the desktop app space to be more like an appliance. The general users are just too stupid and lazy to keep going the way we have been, and love the idea of having one app store to go get their apps, rather than finding them all over. That's been coming for quite a while. Why do you think they love iOS stuff so much? That's where this all started. MS is just trying to give most of the users what they're asking for.

Besides that, why blame MS for this? It's been coming in iOS for a long time, and in many versions of Linux for even longer. In case you hadn't known, getting software for many versions of Linux has been from either their dedicated installer (Yum, Yast, Ubuntu Software Center. Check them out: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/installingsoftware) or from the asinine idea of "download a zip file and compile it yourself." The only easy way to get software in Linux is the SAME DARN THING YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT FROM MS!! THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR MORE THAN A DECADE!! If you want to blame someone, blame the Linux developers, Apple, and the general public!

As for the touch interface, MS did more than a decade of research on how to build a touch screen interface. They've been trying to make tablets since 2001, when they released a tablet version of WinXP. I'd say they have far more experience in figuring out what works than some idiot troll or "software reviewer." It just so happens that much of the public listens to these supposedly educated reviewers, many of whom are just too lazy to actually sit down for an hour and learn a new interface, rather than try things out for themselves.

I have Win8 on a desktop with two screens. I have Win8 on a laptop without a touchscreen. I have WinRT on a tablet with a keyboard dock. I love it, mostly. OK, on a laptop without a touchscreen, the behavior of the touchpad is a bit annoying. More than a bit, actually. I actually disabled the touchpad and exclusively use a wireless mouse now. The rest is fully functional and great to work with. The critics' argument that I have read just give me the impression that they just didn't even give Win8 a chance.
 
It's not just the lack of a Start button, but the push away from the desktop in general. Only being able to run one program at a time in full screen was the DOS way of doing things - back in the 1980s. Why would we want to go back to that now in 2013 on desktop computers?

It just doesn't make sense, Microsoft. If you want to keep your customers, you need to start making sense again.
 
It's not just the lack of a Start button, but the push away from the desktop in general. Only being able to run one program at a time in full screen was the DOS way of doing things - back in the 1980s. Why would we want to go back to that now in 2013 on desktop computers?

It just doesn't make sense, Microsoft. If you want to keep your customers, you need to start making sense again.
 
[citation][nom]dextermat[/nom]Computer and laptop come with windows 8 and downgrade cost money. Then they wonder why pc sale are on decline. Forcing Windows 8 + not everyone need new computer + tablets and smartphones = decline sale in pc[/citation]

Combine that with the fact that >15% of the country's capable workers are out of work (I know, the government only reports 7.7%, but they lie constantly, reporting only people who have actively been looking for work for the last 3 months) and another 25% are underemployed at fast food and retail stores, while our teenagers can't get part time jobs, and that food, gas, electricity, and natural gas have all gone up more than 60% over the last 4 years, we as a country just don't have the discretionary income to spend on new PCs. (While the reported unemployment numbers have dropped, nobody seems to have noticed that the average income has dropped by almost 15%.) I expect to see sales numbers fall much further over the next three years, all while the government raises taxes and avoids all blame.

You want the real reason PC sales are dropping? THE GOVERNMENT IS STEAL OUR MONEY AND GIVING IT TO BUREAUCRATS AND VOTE SLAVES!
 
I don't really see what the problem is with the no boot straight to desktop. When I boot my comp, I usually hit the tile for firefox, Visual Studio, Zune (Yes, that's my media player), or whatever, which puts me in desktop mode. Of course, I could put the shortcuts for these in the startup folder, if I wanted, but I wind up doing the same thing either way: clicking an icon once.
 
[citation][nom]ubercake[/nom]Does it stop the opening of pdf documents from bringing you back to metro?[/citation]
You do not need Classic Shell for that. You just need to install Acrobat Viewer and set it as default for PDF.

On my PC, I removed just about every bundled Metro application. I have a dual-display setup so the idea of having trivial apps consume a whole screen feels outrageously alien to me. I have absolutely no desire for those, completely incompatible with how I have used PCs for the past 12+ years.
 
The problem with no start or boot to desktop leaves people lost after using win xp vista and 7. Who wants to retain people? Not me and I am sure big companies don't want to spend the extra money on training. MS should fix this with an update or service pack. I know people can install classic shell but most of my customers have no idea what classic shell is much less finding the desktop in win8.
 
There is one reason and one reason only that MS forces the "Metro" interface on you...MONEY! If you use the "Metro" interface, and buy Metro apps, MS gets 20-30% of the gross from all sales. If you run "legacy" software (and they ARE referring to the software as legacy!) on the desktop, they get ZERO. So, Microsoft is forcing people to the "closed side" of the OS and depreciating the "open" desktop to cash in and gain more control. It's as simple as that...just plain greed.
 
I personally like Metro, I like when I turn on my machine I see my notifications right there without having to open Outlook for instance.
 
Oh, and by the way..."Windows Blue" has got to be the worst code name ever! Is it "Windows Blue (screen)" or "Windows Blew"? Either way, they picked a stupid name.
 


So, remove the metro version and install through the desktop and I'll be able to use acrobat normally again? Good to know. Funny, though how clicking a MS Office icon in Metro takes you into desktop mode, but clicking a pdf link in the browser in desktop mode takes you to Metro.
 
You know, as much as Microsoft loves their stupid little Wizards, I am surprised they didn't add one to the initial boot of new Windows 8 systems and "guide" the users through setting up their particular system, albeit tablet, phone, or PC. It's sad that we would love such a wizard right now.
 
I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't released a patch through Windows Update to block Start8 / retroUI. It would be fun to see that go back and forth. Update to program, new patch, update to program, new patch. That's why I have Windows Update set on manual
 


It should. I had to do the same thing for my wife but with pictures of different formats. She was going crazy looking at wedding pics because they would open in metro and she couldn't page through the images. She would have to open each one individualy. I simply changed the program they opened with to a desktop one and it was fine. It's not always obious which is the metro and which isn't so you may have to try a couple. As someone else said, you may need to install acrobat reader as an actual program versus just the metro app.
 


Good to know. I'm really trying to take Windows 8 seriously, but it keeps seeming to be one of those "in-between" OSs.
 
I can't believe everybody is still shitting their pants over this. Use the Os for a week and you find that 98% of how you operate it is exactly the same as how W7, Vista, XP, etc etc worked. Are people too stupid to figure out that just because the start button isn't there clicking the lower left corner (or pressing winkey) brings up pretty much the exact same "program launch" menu?
 
[citation][nom]benji720[/nom]Or they can use Classic Shell which does the same thing and saves you $5.[/citation]
Yeah, I wonder how much all these sites are being paid to promote Start8 over the multiple alternatives...
 
Even if there were affordable touchscreens for desktops, I still wouldn't use that as an interface. 1, I'm not reaching all the way across my desk to touch my screen with my arm outstretched (imagine doing that for 8 hours at work in a day), or moving my monitor right in my face so it's easy to reach (probably not good for the eyes either). 2, I just ate a bag of chips while sitting at my desk and I don't care what kind of anti fingerprint material is on the front, you're not keeping oils etc, off the screen. Drives me crazy having fingerprints all over the screen. Modern UI is a stupid design for a workstation multitasking work environment. Mouse functions are awkward and closing a program is moving the mouse all over the place instead of a simple Click in one spot. (Yes, I've given it a chance and if it works for you good, but it doesn't for me).
 
WIN 8 looks WONDERFUL for my wife and kids - IF touch screens were affordable. I can't afford $500+ for a 16-19 inch screen touch screen when for ~$200 I can get 24-27 inch. There is no incentive to upgrade to WIN 8 without using touch screen.
 
[citation][nom]PreferLinux[/nom]Yeah, I wonder how much all these sites are being paid to promote Start8 over the multiple alternatives...[/citation]
Probably because they are sponsored by Microsoft who makes a 20-30% commission on apps and in-apps sales... so every $5 Start8 install gets Microsoft $1.00-1.50 and the site that linked to it might get $0.03/sale or something like that.

Microsoft needs to be punished for the dozens of passable/horrible UI design choices they made in Win7/Win8, not rewarded.
 
[citation][nom]Cryio[/nom]I think people are retarded thinking the whole OS is simply broken, nonfunctional and incompatible with everything simply because the Start has a different interface.[/citation]

I dont think anyone thinks the whole OS is broken, nonfunctional or incompatible. It clearly is none of these. The interface changes they made however, are idiotic at best for a traditional desktop/laptop computer. Just because the interface makes sense on a tablet and a phone, doesnt mean it works for everything! If microsoft can figure this out in time for windows 9, or windows 8.1, or whatever comes next, they might manage to save their market share. If they continue to force clunky interfaces on us, they will not be successful.
 
Another thing, in previous versions, you could shut down by clicking two buttons, and while it is the butt of many jokes, its actually quite elegant. Start -> Shutdown. In windows 8 it takes...half a dozen clicks maybe? possibly more, i haven't used it in a while and dont plan to.

Also, lets say you're in desktop mode and you just installed a traditional application that puts its icon in the start menu, no desktop shortcut. Once its on the desktop, or pinned to the task bar, there's no issue with launching the app. But from a regular end user perspective, how do they get icons on the desktop or task bar usually? Dragging it out from the start menu. Now that they can't do this, how are they expected to know to open the library, browse to c:\program files(x86)\someapp\... and then know which of the many files is the main executable for their program that they should shortcut to? What if they move the file vs making a shortcut and nothing works? The whole interface is just useless for average users. I may know my way around a PC, and while its clunky and not pleasant to use, i imagine for less computer savvy people its an absolute nightmare!
 
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