I think the Geforce256 is your problem. It consumes a lot of power and your power supply may not be able to handle the load.
Does you system freeze immediately after starting 3D applications? Are you seeing any other symptoms? There are a couple of classic symptoms with the Geforce/power supply problem. One is a sudden blank screen sometimes with a green line across the top. The other is spontaneous reboots.
If you are seeing these problems check the ratings on the side of your power supply. The +3.3 volt line should be able to provide at least 20 amps.
If you have an inadequate power supply the fix is to replace it or replace the power hungry Geforce256 card with something that consumes less power.
Geforce 2 cards consume much less than the Geforce256. The Geforce 2 MX cards only consume about 1/4 of the power of the Geforce256. I don't know how much power ATI Radeon video cards consume but they are not know to have power related problems.
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If you are only seeing the freezing problem <b>and</b> none of the other symptoms <b>and</b> the problem doesn't happen immediately upon starting 3D games. I might also suspect that the video card is overheating. You can test this idea buy opening the computer case and pointing a room fan to blow air at the area of the video card (not too close). If the problem goes away then heat was definitely the problem.
If this is the case then a permanent fix would probably require additional cooling fans. More case fans might be needed. A PCI slot fan to provide extra air just for the video card might be even better.
Does you system freeze immediately after starting 3D applications? Are you seeing any other symptoms? There are a couple of classic symptoms with the Geforce/power supply problem. One is a sudden blank screen sometimes with a green line across the top. The other is spontaneous reboots.
If you are seeing these problems check the ratings on the side of your power supply. The +3.3 volt line should be able to provide at least 20 amps.
If you have an inadequate power supply the fix is to replace it or replace the power hungry Geforce256 card with something that consumes less power.
Geforce 2 cards consume much less than the Geforce256. The Geforce 2 MX cards only consume about 1/4 of the power of the Geforce256. I don't know how much power ATI Radeon video cards consume but they are not know to have power related problems.
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If you are only seeing the freezing problem <b>and</b> none of the other symptoms <b>and</b> the problem doesn't happen immediately upon starting 3D games. I might also suspect that the video card is overheating. You can test this idea buy opening the computer case and pointing a room fan to blow air at the area of the video card (not too close). If the problem goes away then heat was definitely the problem.
If this is the case then a permanent fix would probably require additional cooling fans. More case fans might be needed. A PCI slot fan to provide extra air just for the video card might be even better.
It doesn't freeze immediately when I start 3d things. I can play NOLF and EQ for about 5 minutes before it freezes (Ok, USED to be able to play NOLF for 5 minutes, I can't even get in now). No sudden reboots, no blank screens with green lines across the top. I've never noticed how many fans we have inside our case. I know we have at least two or three though. We also have a couple in our other computer skeleton that we aren't using. Mebbe I can put those in or something, I dunno, I gotta open this thing back up and look.
Tracy
Tracy
While you have the case open you might as well try my suggestion, you know, with the room fan. It's an easy test and it shouldn't take long to find out if it works.
Just be careful. You don't want anything to fall into the open case while the system is running, especially the room fan. (Don't ask)!
Just be careful. You don't want anything to fall into the open case while the system is running, especially the room fan. (Don't ask)!
Ok, totally forgot about the room fan thing, but I did get another fan installed in there. There's one on the video card itself, and then I put a second one under it. Also, I'm a retard...the power source is 250 watts. The Hercules site said 300 watts is preferred, but that 250 watts is still good. Ok, off to try sumfin with video and see what happens!!!
Ok, I think the person who said it's overheating is correct. I installed an additional fan and logged onto EQ. I was able to play for almost 1/2 hour before it froze again (instead of the usual 5 minutes). I'll go out tomorrow and try to find a really good fan and hope that works!!!
if you are going to get an additional fan you might as well get a new power supply instead. (i know, here he goes again with the power supply thing) if you get a 350 watt or 400 watt power supply with a high speed fan you will kill two birds with one stone: more power = more stability and room to grow, and larger exhaust fan = much cooler.
oh and by the way, i think we set a new record of responces in under 24 hours guys.......i guess if i need help i should get my girlfriend to sign in here to ask the questions, huh? LOL.......rock on!!!
ignore everything i say
oh and by the way, i think we set a new record of responces in under 24 hours guys.......i guess if i need help i should get my girlfriend to sign in here to ask the questions, huh? LOL.......rock on!!!
ignore everything i say
noko
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Power Supply is a good call. Other possibilities are also possible through.
One I can think of is your memory settings maybe too agressive, something to test and maybe rule out. So I recommend you do the following: (Some may already be set to suggested settings.)
1. Go into bios setup
2. Go into Advance Chipset Features
3. Bank 0/1/2/3/4/5 DRAM Timing set to 8/10ns. (all 3 of them)
4. SDRAM Cycle Length set to 3 (Controlls latency of the ram
5. Dram Clock set to Host Clk. If it is set to HCLK-33M leave it as is. (Clock speed for memory, HCLK-33M = 66mhz, Host Clk = 100mhz, Host Clk + 33M = 133mhz).
These are non agressive memory settings. This is also where you can increase your performance significantly when your problem is resolved and if it is not the memory. Recommmend you record the orginal settings so that you can go back to orignal setup. Now you may have another setting for memory called <b>Interleave</b>. A setting which you could set to <b>2-Way</b> or maybe <b>4-Way</b>, try 2-way first then 4-way if you have it. This would helps in stability and performance.. Newer versions of the bios for Via chipsets will usually have it.
One I can think of is your memory settings maybe too agressive, something to test and maybe rule out. So I recommend you do the following: (Some may already be set to suggested settings.)
1. Go into bios setup
2. Go into Advance Chipset Features
3. Bank 0/1/2/3/4/5 DRAM Timing set to 8/10ns. (all 3 of them)
4. SDRAM Cycle Length set to 3 (Controlls latency of the ram
5. Dram Clock set to Host Clk. If it is set to HCLK-33M leave it as is. (Clock speed for memory, HCLK-33M = 66mhz, Host Clk = 100mhz, Host Clk + 33M = 133mhz).
These are non agressive memory settings. This is also where you can increase your performance significantly when your problem is resolved and if it is not the memory. Recommmend you record the orginal settings so that you can go back to orignal setup. Now you may have another setting for memory called <b>Interleave</b>. A setting which you could set to <b>2-Way</b> or maybe <b>4-Way</b>, try 2-way first then 4-way if you have it. This would helps in stability and performance.. Newer versions of the bios for Via chipsets will usually have it.
Just to let you know, I just received a call frr a friend who has the same motherboard and is haveing the exact same problem, so I can tell you that it is not the graphics card but, probably a driver missing somewhere or a setting not on or off, as the case may be. I am going over there in the next few minuits and if I can get it to work, I let you know how to fix it.
If it works for you then don't fix it.
If it works for you then don't fix it.
Have you tried to run the Direct X Dignostic? You can run it if you type in dxdiag in the run programs menu on the start menu. You will then go to the display tab and see a set of tests on the far right of the screen under the Direct X Setting Features. Run all the test and see if any if them fail, then let us know which ones, if any failed.
If it works for you then don't fix it.
If it works for you then don't fix it.
I just fixed my friends problem and it was solved by updating the Motherboard drivers at this site <A HREF="http://www.fic.com.tw/techsupport/utilities/ficvia.htm" target="_new">here</A>. Go to the Via 4 in 1 drivers and select the version that matches the one on the CD that came with your motherboard. Hope that this simple fix resolves your problem.
If it works for you then don't fix it.
If it works for you then don't fix it.
250 watts? Definitely look for an upgrade. I highly recommend the Enermax EG365P-VE, 350 watts. It's only about $58 USD online.
However, based on your description of your problems I can't guarantee that the power supply is the cause. I only suspect it is.
However, based on your description of your problems I can't guarantee that the power supply is the cause. I only suspect it is.
Noko, I went into the BIOS settings and looked, and everything is already set up the way you told me to set it up, so that's good.
To the others, Yes, I ran DirectX Diagnostic, and ran the tests, and the 3D test made me freeze.
As far as the drivers, Someone posted a link to the VIA 4-n-1 drivers, version 4.32, and I downloaded and installed them last night. The question is, when I moved my modem, and then moved my modem to a different slot again to make room for the additional fan, it reinstalled the vid card (that's what it looked like to me at least), so does that mean I need to reinstall the newer drivers again?
To the others, Yes, I ran DirectX Diagnostic, and ran the tests, and the 3D test made me freeze.
As far as the drivers, Someone posted a link to the VIA 4-n-1 drivers, version 4.32, and I downloaded and installed them last night. The question is, when I moved my modem, and then moved my modem to a different slot again to make room for the additional fan, it reinstalled the vid card (that's what it looked like to me at least), so does that mean I need to reinstall the newer drivers again?
noko
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Wouldn't hurt just in case Win98 installed a older version which I don't think it did. How does it run now with the modem in a different slot (not next to video card that is)? Still have the IRQ sharing/conflict with modem and video card? Anther option is to remove the modem and then test your computer to see if problem goes away, if it does then the conflict is between modem and video card. If not then it looks more like your Power Supply which sounds more and more to be the real problem. Let us know.
Side note once your problem with the GF is solved then we can go back into the bios and optimize your memory to improve your performance significantly. Those settings are virtually the slowest that you can have for the memory.
Let us know how this works out. Right now I am on Safe Craker scene 6 in NOLF trying to get past the lasers in the Barons safe. Pain in the ....
Side note once your problem with the GF is solved then we can go back into the bios and optimize your memory to improve your performance significantly. Those settings are virtually the slowest that you can have for the memory.
Let us know how this works out. Right now I am on Safe Craker scene 6 in NOLF trying to get past the lasers in the Barons safe. Pain in the ....
She needs to disable plug and play OS in bios and let the motherboard config the irq's. What we may have here is not one but multiple issues ( very hard to diagnose). As WCPUID reported agp at 2x it is obvious that her husbsand did install the via 4n1's (otherwie agp 1x is all it would show). Hopefully we did not lose her alltogether, as one suggested to move the modem to another slot, but it is possible that in doing so her dial up connection may no longer be valid. We should have told her how to add a new connection just in case. Issues that need to be addressed:
1) Video card and modem need to have there own IRQ's. Modems seem to share well with the usb bus but not well with a video card
2) The sound card sharing an IRQ is another possibility, as long as she has free IRQ's it is best that she get this on its own IRQ as well. If she as no USB devices, why not disable the usb controller in bios as well.
3) Power supply. I am a firm believer that no athlon system should be built with a 250 watt power supply. Sure there are other that will tell you they did and it works fine...but this is the most overlooked source of computer problems today and all power supplies are not created equal.
4) Heat, while it looks like this maybe an issue, I really doubt it is the only issue. It is unlikely that heat would cause an immediate lockup entering a game, more likely after continuous use. Unless the issue is heat across the voltage regulators running at near threshold. Running an app like sis sandra on the cpu burn in test looping it ( maybe even playing an mp3 in the background at the same time) would let us kow if an overheating cpu is the culprit and not video related.
5) It is obvious that her husband had some computer knowledge witnessed by the fact he had det vers 12.41 drivers installed on a gforce 256. To my knowledge, no gorce 256 ever shipped with det 12.41 drivers. I question the use of these drivers for that card in my expierance det vers 6.50 is the best and most stable. This also leads me to believe we may have another culprit at large, multiple video adapters in the system registery. She needs to boot into safe mode and see if this is in fact the case.
Of most importance she needs to address one thing at a time not in multiples. Also, not knowing her technical prowess ( or at least mechanical) she may very well be advised to take the computer to a repair shop if she deems it neccesary to have the heatsink/fan replaced, I would really hate to see her crack her chip.
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
1) Video card and modem need to have there own IRQ's. Modems seem to share well with the usb bus but not well with a video card
2) The sound card sharing an IRQ is another possibility, as long as she has free IRQ's it is best that she get this on its own IRQ as well. If she as no USB devices, why not disable the usb controller in bios as well.
3) Power supply. I am a firm believer that no athlon system should be built with a 250 watt power supply. Sure there are other that will tell you they did and it works fine...but this is the most overlooked source of computer problems today and all power supplies are not created equal.
4) Heat, while it looks like this maybe an issue, I really doubt it is the only issue. It is unlikely that heat would cause an immediate lockup entering a game, more likely after continuous use. Unless the issue is heat across the voltage regulators running at near threshold. Running an app like sis sandra on the cpu burn in test looping it ( maybe even playing an mp3 in the background at the same time) would let us kow if an overheating cpu is the culprit and not video related.
5) It is obvious that her husband had some computer knowledge witnessed by the fact he had det vers 12.41 drivers installed on a gforce 256. To my knowledge, no gorce 256 ever shipped with det 12.41 drivers. I question the use of these drivers for that card in my expierance det vers 6.50 is the best and most stable. This also leads me to believe we may have another culprit at large, multiple video adapters in the system registery. She needs to boot into safe mode and see if this is in fact the case.
Of most importance she needs to address one thing at a time not in multiples. Also, not knowing her technical prowess ( or at least mechanical) she may very well be advised to take the computer to a repair shop if she deems it neccesary to have the heatsink/fan replaced, I would really hate to see her crack her chip.
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
As it turns out, my firend was having this problem not because of the 4-in-1 drivers, but because the Refresh rate was wrong. He has some off brand monitor and it only liked the refresh rate at 85 mhz. Try changing this value by going to advanced setting in the display properties box, click the adapter tab and then try different settings in the refresh rate dropdown box. (It may read optimal now).
If it works for you then don't fix it.
If it works for you then don't fix it.
Ncogneto, and everyone, I appreciate all the help you all have provided me. Now, in response to Ncogneto, should I start at the top of your post and do one thing at a time, try running 3d apps and see if any of that helps? Truth be told, we are Army, and just moved (and for those that don't know, the Army NEVER gives you enuff money to cover moving), therefore we're almost $300 in overdraft at the moment. Not a plea for envelopes stuffed with cash, just to explain that if at all possible, spending money to fix this has to be an absolute last resort, cuz I aint got none, lol. If all else fails, I can take out this mobo and cpu and go back to my Abit BH6 mobo and Celeron 300 cpu, although I hope I don't have to do that. Anyhow, I'm clueless about what to do next, so just say the word and I can start at the top of your post and work my way down one at a time, and see if it helps. Also, if I DO do that...if suggestion 1 doesn't help, should I change it back, or couple it with suggestion 2 and see if a combo type thing helps? Once again, I appreciate everyone's help, and I definitely need a friggin class on this stuff. =D
First of all noko suggested you move the modem to a different slot, this I take it you did correct? After doing so what did your Irq assignments look like? Also, did the room fan cure the problem completely? And you mention taking out the current motherboard and replaceing it with BH6, just curious, have you ever done anything like that before? Not trying to be prejudicial, but trying to gauge your level of computer now how hardware wise.
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
Yes, I moved the modem, so it doesn't share an IRQ with the vid card any longer. Here's what my IRQ's look like now, according to system info:
0 System timer
1 Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural Keyboard
2 Programmable interrupt controller
3 SCI IRQ used by ACPI bus
4 Communications Port (COM1)
5 (free)
6 Standard Floppy Disk Controller
7 Printer Port (LPT1)
8 System CMOS/real time clock
9 (free)
10 VIA VT83C572/VT82C586 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
10 VIA VT83C572/VT82C586 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
10 Creative Sound Blaster PCI128
10 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
11 3D Prophet DDR-DVI
11 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
12 Motorola SM56 Speakerphone Modem
12 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
13 Numeric data processor
14 Primary IDE controller (dual fifo)
14 VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller
15 Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo)
15 VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller
No, the fan didn't cure the problem, though I had hoped it would. I have NEVER put in an entire mobo before, so in that area, I have no knowledge. I'd like to think that with explicit step by step instructions I could do it, but honestly I'm just not sure.
0 System timer
1 Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural Keyboard
2 Programmable interrupt controller
3 SCI IRQ used by ACPI bus
4 Communications Port (COM1)
5 (free)
6 Standard Floppy Disk Controller
7 Printer Port (LPT1)
8 System CMOS/real time clock
9 (free)
10 VIA VT83C572/VT82C586 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
10 VIA VT83C572/VT82C586 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
10 Creative Sound Blaster PCI128
10 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
11 3D Prophet DDR-DVI
11 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
12 Motorola SM56 Speakerphone Modem
12 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
13 Numeric data processor
14 Primary IDE controller (dual fifo)
14 VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller
15 Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo)
15 VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller
No, the fan didn't cure the problem, though I had hoped it would. I have NEVER put in an entire mobo before, so in that area, I have no knowledge. I'd like to think that with explicit step by step instructions I could do it, but honestly I'm just not sure.
download this:
<A HREF="http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10102-108-35399.html?tag=st.dl.10102.upd.10102-108-35399" target="_new">http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10102-108-35399.html?tag=st.dl.10102.upd.10102-108-35399</A>
Install and then choose burn in test and check the following box's
cpu benchmark
memory benchmark
then let it run 10 times and see if it completes the test then post back your results ( ie. failed or passed)
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
<A HREF="http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10102-108-35399.html?tag=st.dl.10102.upd.10102-108-35399" target="_new">http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10102-108-35399.html?tag=st.dl.10102.upd.10102-108-35399</A>
Install and then choose burn in test and check the following box's
cpu benchmark
memory benchmark
then let it run 10 times and see if it completes the test then post back your results ( ie. failed or passed)
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
noko
Distinguished
- Jan 22, 2001
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To rule out the IRQ possible conflict between the SBLive and USB which ncogneto noted, I recommend you do the following:
1. Go to Bios Setup
2. Advance Chipset Features
3. Onchip USB and Onchip USB2 set to Disable
This will allow the SBLive to have its own IRQ temporarily for testing. Idealistically cards are surpose to allow sharing of IRQs but certain combinations may not work. This is something to rule out or maybe it might be the culprit. Let us know.
1. Go to Bios Setup
2. Advance Chipset Features
3. Onchip USB and Onchip USB2 set to Disable
This will allow the SBLive to have its own IRQ temporarily for testing. Idealistically cards are surpose to allow sharing of IRQs but certain combinations may not work. This is something to rule out or maybe it might be the culprit. Let us know.
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