Question Industrial PC with Digital IOs

[Light437]

Hi,

Does anyone know of a Industrial PC brand/model that has roughly the same capabilities or slightly more powerful than a Raspberry Pi 4?

The "Revolution Pi" is kind of what I am looking for but wondering what alternatives there are out there. Both from renowned brands and start-ups. The main requirement is to be able to run Windows 10, have a robust casing and digital IOs capabilities.

Thank you very much!

Best regards

 

[Eximo]

Not any particular brand, but that is pretty much what makes for an industrial or automotive PC, so just start shopping?

This only took a bit to find:

https://www.newegg.com/p/1VK-01YR-0..._pc-_-1VK-01YR-00158-_-Product&quicklink=true

 

[OldSurferDude]

I would like to have my perspective changed on using Windows computer for control purposes. I have problems with Windows. First is the incessant updates which cause reboots. The second is it is difficult to have I/O control with the windows OS, particularly real time.

Don't get me wrong, linux has its challenges, too.

OSD

 

[Light437]

Thank you very much for that suggestion @Eximo. Technically that is very similar to what I am looking for. But compared to a Raspberry Pi it is quite expensive. Any idea of a brand or make that is similar to Raspberry Pi in price but industrial grade device?

@OldSurferDude I kind of agree but the planned software is done for Windows. Anyway which distro would you recommend for control purposes if we would make a change to our software?

 

[Light437]

For instance this PLC runs Windows CE and would be somewhat the device I am looking for but more modern and able to run Windows 10: https://www.beckhoff.com/en-en/products/ipc/embedded-pcs/cx8000-arm9/cx8090.html

 

[Eximo]

Well, not sure your software would run on that system either way. That is running an ARM processor. Presumably you are stuck with Windows because you need an x86 instruction set? And Windows 10 isn't all that light.

There are certainly more options out there, but they aren't typically sold by retail sites. You will likely end up having to contact several industry suppliers, and maybe even purchase in bulk.

Probably some low end Atom based models out there, but I don't think you are likely to come down to the Raspberry Pi level of pricing.

Just poking around I saw a few more ARM based Windows PCs, probably running Windows ARM. And a few atom based celeron models that were likely a few hundred dollars, but I couldn't find pricing.


Cheapest computer I can think of is around $100, and they don't make them anymore. About the size of a large USB drive with a teeny celeron, 2GB of ram, and 32GB of eMMC flash, wifi/bluetooth, and a usb port, and a single HDMI out. Still required external power. No I/O unless you ran something through USB. (Intel Compute Stick Single Board Computer , or the Lenovo equivalent)

 

[OldSurferDude]

For instance this PLC runs Windows CE and would be somewhat the device I am looking for but more modern and able to run Windows 10: https://www.beckhoff.com/en-en/products/ipc/embedded-pcs/cx8000-arm9/cx8090.html

This system probably is quite expensive. But then, if you have more money than time, then it would be worth it. For the converse, you'd be looking at one or more RPi's

Right now I have an RPi running two process. One process uses 10 I/O's. The other uses 4 I/O's for a wireless communication to 4 Arduino's . My application can tolerate multi-second slips, but requires 24/7 uptime. The RPi is running Rasspberrian, which has been totally adequate for the tasks.

I have a number of add-on projects planned. For this I will be using a PC that was headed for the landfill. I put Ubuntu 20.04 on it. It is running an MQTT broker to link all of the processes together. This PC will also run a number small of processes that help glue everything together.

There are a number of advantages using MQTT. One, you can have all your process on one device or many devices and the programming doesn't have to know that. It's adequately fast, though just barely for an e-Stop situation. If you need more I/O, just get another RPi. (You could add more I/O to an RPi with an Arduino Nano.)

I mounted my RPi, relays and power supplies in a 8"x8" electrical box. Not bomb proof, but weather proof. My devices are headless and I connect to them via VNC; WiFi and hardwired. With judicious configuring of the router, everything is adequately secure.

I am also dabbling in Sonoff-Tasmota devices. WiFi enabled switched power and, with a little ingenuity, I/O, controlled via MQTT. And cheap! $7/ea. (though you'll spend some time and $15 putting it into a weather proof box)

If you're concerned about security, don't use the cloud. Also, many Chinese devices "phone home", so prevent these devices from having access to the internet. If you need an NTP server on your isolated network, one can be made for under $20 from an Arduino, GPS module, and ethernet card.)

Not mentioned was connecting your I/O. That's a challenge no matter what kind of system you use.

Hope you'll find some of that information useful

OSD

 

[Alabalcho]

There're plenty of companies designing and manufactiruing PC104 form-size x86-compatible board, with various level of interfaces, CPUs, I/Os etc. But none of them is in the RPi price range, you're looking at $200+ for really industrial-level (and time-frame commitment).

If your problem with Windows are the updates - they you're using wrong Windows version for your project. Although Windows IoT was made popular by Windows 8 / 10 running on RPi, it has much wider appeal. Again, with licensing, this is not RPi-level product.

 

[Light437]

Thank you very much everyone for great answers. @Alabalcho, can you name few of the companies you are referring to? I cannot find industrial-level PC in the $200-$300 range that has digital IOs.

The Intel Atom would have been a great choice if they had Digital IOs but I can't find any that has digital IOs.

 

[Eximo]

I found lots of celeron and atom based models with general purpose I/O. As I said, they just didn't have pricing. You would need to reach out to these companies for a quote. My search terms were as simple as "atom" "industrial" "general purpose i/o" "x86"

Every industrial PC I've worked with has been in the several hundred dollar range, or vastly more. In the early 2000s we were looking at mil-spec temperature rated units with solid state storage. The drives alone were $1000, the computer was about $600 as I recall. I ended up working on it because they were having trouble getting XP installed. Turned out they had the case removed to put in a bootable installer, and didn't think to notice that the case was the heatsink. They would get about halfway through the install before the system overheated. Ended up giving them an old CPU cooler to literally sit on the thermal pad while they were doing setup.

 

[Alabalcho]

Thank you very much everyone for great answers. @Alabalcho, can you name few of the companies you are referring to? I cannot find industrial-level PC in the $200-$300 range that has digital IOs.

The Intel Atom would have been a great choice if they had Digital IOs but I can't find any that has digital IOs.

Check, for example, Advantech' PCM-3365, with list price of $356. "Only" 8-bit GPIO, I2C

 

[Azzyasi]

Why not use a regular PC of your choice and add GPIO functions with an arduino of your choice with serial comunication from the PC, or other options like a GPIO header for PC or the industrial grade for GPIO is called DAQ - data aquisition system, where there are a lot to configure.. number of bits, sampling rate, analog outputs, analog inputs, digital outputs or inputs (with whatever function you want I2C, SPI, CAN-Bus, etc) all over a PCIe card or USB - National Instruments have many options for DAQs and are meshed very nicecly in the NI ecosystem with PXI and LabView programming all windows and linux friendly on x86. - Be aware that these DAQ's can range from a few hundred $ to several thousands $ (even more if you go NI-PXI route) There are cheaper DAQ's available from other vendors. After all a soundcard is a DAQ, an arduino is also a DAQ so surely there is an inbetween option from the cheap arduino to the expensive NI DAQ's

Again, if you do not need the robustness and reliability and calibration and ... etc... of the system (like NI is offering), you can go hobby grade version with an arduino on a PC, or any other computer or embedded computer X86, or ARM or your choice and add an arduino or GPIO header.. but be aware that is not trustworthy to control serious automation with real life consequences if anything goes wrong.
At least PLC is used for heavy automation (big CNC's), and PXI-like systems for lab grade stuff and custom tailored for nuclear reactors automation.

The hobby grade stuff (arduino, Rpi's, other fruit-objects PI) can be reliable if all componets are quality on the board, and it was engineerd to have redundancy checks and fault detection and as much as possible reduce interference and influences for any factor - This type of engineering you pay in an industrial PLC, or PXI that is already done (hardware in choice of components, in design of the electronics to be stable and interference-less, and sofware to have strong comunication protocols with mutiple checks and hardware logic to have multiple checks in case of any hardware fault in the sensors or actuators.)
A dedicated person may make a PIC controller or ATMEL or whatever controller reliable with apropriate parts, skill and knowledge (and time to design, test, improve).