Inserting switch breaks my network. Super frustrated!

[costanza]

I'm an average Joe. Not an IT professional. Please help!

TP-LINK TL-SG105E switch connected to a TP-LINK Archer C8 router.

My devices (several Apple TV's, Marantz receiver, XBox One, etc.) all worked fine using WiFi from TP-Link Archer C8 router. They also work fine if I hardwire them to the router.

I decided to lessen load on my WiFi and put 4 devices in the same location (home theater) on a wired switch. I also ran an Ethernet cable to my bedroom apple TV straight from the router (not through the switch). All I have gotten for my work is a headache.

The router and switch are used in out of the box/ plug-and play/default settings, except for changing password on the router.

The switch is behind my entertainment center in my home theater where is connected between my router and an Apple TV, Marantz receiver and an Xbox one. After inserting the switch, the apple TV's (one connected through the switch in the home theater and a second one in my bedroom connected DIRECTLY to router via ethenet) take about a full minute before they "connect" to YouTube, Netflix, etc, after being turned on. If I unplug the ethernet cable at the router that is going to the switch, the apple tv in the bedroom (remember...its not connected through the switch) will then connect to Youtube, Netflix, etc, immediately after being turned on (as it always did on wifi). Now, I when turn off the apple TV in the bedroom, plug the switch back into the router and BAM!, the bedroom apple TV is back to taking a minute to connect. Again, it isn't even connected through the switch. So the switch is doing something to break my network.

Back to the other devices going through the switch... The Marantz receiver (ethernet only) works fine (playing internet radio) connected straight to router. When connected through the switch and trying to listen to internet radio, I can see the name of the song, but the music won't load (stays at 0%) and I get a "server error".
When connecting the Xbox through the switch, I can sign in, but when checking network in the xbox settings, it fails. It says it isn't connected.

I've "reset" everything,..cable modem, router, devices...everything. No help. I've tested all the cables. The same ethernet cable going to the switch works fine when plugged directly into any of my devices.

Lastly, I had read that you can use an old/unused router with multiple outputs as a "dumb switch" by just ignoring the old router's "in" port, and plugging the new router into one of the old router's "out" ports and your devices into the remaining "out" ports. I tried this with an old D-Link DIR-601 (I factory reset it first) and got the same results as when using the new TP-Link switch. So I guess this means something weird is going on with my router, in that plugging in a switch to one of its outputs doesn't necessarily kill my internet, but makes it super slow and prone to signal failure. Any ideas?

 

[Ralston18]

The default "resets" (or "out of the box settings") may not be appropriate for your setup.

Is this the user manual for your switch?

http://www.tp-link.com/res/down/doc/TL-SG105E(UN)_V2_IG.pdf

What do you see on the indicator lights (LED's) with respect to speeds?

Did you use the referenced configuration utility to access the switch and do any configurations therein?

Run the configuration utility and see what you can find and learn.

 

[costanza]

I have removed the switch because of the issues so I can't comment on the lights.
I did go into the switch configuration and as I recall, turned off the management options (this is some sort of hybrid managed/unmanaged switch).

Seeing as how i get the exact same results when I replaced the switch with the old router, wiring it as a "dumb switch", doesn't that point to the router as the issue?

Is inserting an unmanaged switch in a simple home network supposed to be plug and play (pray)? Or is it supposed to require forensic IT skills as this has become?

Thanks!!!

 

[indsup]

This is a managed switch. Run the configuration utility and make sure it is set to pass through the dhcp requests etc. from the router. There are other configurations that would cause this behavior but would only be able to solve this once you say the settings that are active. Not enough information to help you very much.

 

[Solandri]

A managed switch is really unnecessary for a setup as simple as this. Managed switches are only necessary with more complicated network topology to help you isolate and resolve problems remotely, or create multiple VLANs running over the same switch.

Lastly, I had read that you can use an old/unused router with multiple outputs as a "dumb switch" by just ignoring the old router's "in" port, and plugging the new router into one of the old router's "out" ports and your devices into the remaining "out" ports. I tried this with an old D-Link DIR-601 (I factory reset it first) and got the same results as when using the new TP-Link switch. So I guess this means something weird is going on with my router, in that plugging in a switch to one of its outputs doesn't necessarily kill my internet, but makes it super slow and prone to signal failure. Any ideas?

This will work, but you have to disable DHCP on the "old" router and manually set its IP address to something different from your main router. Otherwise you end up with two competing DHCP servers, and any device which gets its IP address from the "old" router's DHCP server will be unable to access the Internet. If both routers are defaulting to the same IP address (e.g. 192.168.1.1), then you'll get intermittent Internet access as it depends on timing and dumb luck whether your packets will go to the router with Internet access or the one without (resulting in large delays with TCP connections, dropouts or failed connects with UDP connections).

Your symptoms when using the switch sound very similar. Since you've got one device plugged straight into your main router, start with just that plugged in.

Next add the switch (with no devices plugged in). See if network speeds are impacted.

Next add one device to the switch. See if network speeds are impacted.

Repeat, adding the other devices one at a time.

I suspect the Apple TV device(s) is/are the culprit. There's a known issue with them flooding ethernet networks with DHCP requests. A suggested fix is to put the Apple TV devices back on wifi (Apple hides the wifi settings when you connect via ethernet), go into their configuration and disable their wifi, then plug it in via ethernet again. Apparently a possible cause of this flooding is the Apple TV gets confused about which type of connection it's supposed to be using and keeps trying to reconnect.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6830097?tstart=0

 

[costanza]

Thanks for the replies!

I don't think it's the Apple TVs. I was troubleshooting and only had my receiver plugged into the output of the switch and still had the issues.
I'm not at home so I can't pull up the switch utility, but recall turning all options off. Would it be simpler for me to just buy an unmanaged switch? They're only about $20. That's about what I paid for this "hybrid" switch. I just don't wanna throw good money after bad if it's an issue in the router.

 

[Ralston18]

In agreement with both indsup and Solandri.

Map out your network and include all active (DHCP) and static IP addresses with all devices connected. Look at the IP addresses for conflicts along with conflicts between the device configuration setting and what you expect them to be.

Not at all uncommon for duplicates to occur especially with respect to default settings.

And some devices want to be the "one ring" so the manufacturer's can see, control, and limit users..... Upgrades and updates may roll back to the manufacturer's desired settings.

It is fair to consider the router as the culprit. (E.g., maybe a firmware update is needed....).

However, I would objectively work to prove or disprove the router before doing anything else. Very much via the process that Solandri has suggested.

 

[costanza]

I truly appreciate your advice! All of you. Put simply, I'm really not into "IT" and don't want to have to do a lot of forensic IT investigating on this issue IF simply buying a straight up, unmanaged "plug n play" switch will fix it. I say this only after I've already spent a LOT of time trouble shooting. I've tested all the components, reset devices, checked cables, checked configurations, and on and on. I regret buying this "hybrid" switch. As I said, it seems to advertise itself as compatible with unmanaged and managed networks, and I turned all the management options off. I've ordered an unmanaged switch (TP-LINK TL-SG1005D). Should be here in a few days. If I still have issues, I must assume the router is at fault. During trouble shooting, I connected devices individually, so I know it isn't cross-device interference.

 

[jsmithepa]

As already mentioned, if you are not an IT professional, please use an UNMANAGED switch, they are not expensive at all. End of problem.

 

[indsup]

It would probably be easier to use an un-managed switch. That way you know all traffic goes to the router and will not have any interference from a managed switch. I suspect this is what is causing the issues you are experiencing. General rule of thumb is to always map out your network before you install it. Far less possibilities for troubles that way.

 

[Immanuel_1]

I got a very similar problem (see: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-3020511/direct-connection-works-switch-heavy-problems.html). I am using the following setup:

* central fiber router (DHCP server) - connection to the internet
connected to:
* 8-port unmanaged GB switch (my central switch)
plugged to:
1. HP microserver
2. linux sat receiver

This configuration works very well.
When adding an additiona 5 port GB switch between the central 8-port and the sat receiver, speed slows extremely down and viewing any recordings from the NAS on the sat receiver does not work any more (distortions). All LED indicate GB-speed.

I exchanged the 5port intermediat switch with a more expensive model (25 EUR) and same behavior.

I'm no network specialist but on intermediate IT technical level. For me it's also a mystery (thinking about QoS on the switch or somewhere JumboFrames to be turned off - but did not dig into details).

So a solution to this mystery would maybe solve my problems also.

thanks

I.

 

[indsup]

I got a very similar problem (see: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-3020511/direct-connection-works-switch-heavy-problems.html). I am using the following setup:

* central fiber router (DHCP server) - connection to the internet
connected to:
* 8-port unmanaged GB switch (my central switch)
plugged to:
1. HP microserver
2. linux sat receiver

This configuration works very well.
When adding an additiona 5 port GB switch between the central 8-port and the sat receiver, speed slows extremely down and viewing any recordings from the NAS on the sat receiver does not work any more (distortions). All LED indicate GB-speed.

I exchanged the 5port intermediat switch with a more expensive model (25 EUR) and same behavior.

I'm no network specialist but on intermediate IT technical level. For me it's also a mystery (thinking about QoS on the switch or somewhere JumboFrames to be turned off - but did not dig into details).

So a solution to this mystery would maybe solve my problems also.

thanks

I.

Is the switch managed or unmanaged? If it is managed make sure it jumbo frames are enabled in the switch. If it isn't it should pass the packets along how ever it is received. If it is a managed switch make sure it is configured to use the same packet size, if it has that option. Qos is not needed really on a wired network wireless it can help some times but not always. if it's on turn it off.

 

[costanza]

Wanted to update this by saying I solved this by selling the manageable (can be managed or unmanaged) switch on ebay and buying a straight up, dead simple unmanaged switch. Plugged it in and Bob's your uncle! Good to go