Intel, AMD, And Reseller Success: A System Builder Weighs In

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The criticism leveled against AMD for not marketing is unwarranted. It costs money to market, lots of it. You don't think NASCAR lets you paint your logo on its cars for free do you? And sales representatives make more than minimum wage, plus they have big travel costs. You can't tell a sales rep to sleep in a rental car, and if you have local reps., you need a local office which costs $$$$ too.

AMD doesn't have the bells and whistles of a sales team because it can't afford it. Not that it doesn't want to or think these ass-kissers aren't important, they simply can't afford them. Just like some of us can't afford a $4000 computer, we would like to have one, but it's beyond our means.

That's why the article and the criticism of the high end system builder is ridiculous. They are asking for bells and whistles, both of which AMD cannot afford to provide. AMD should, and is, focusing all of its resources on R&D for better chips.
 
No, it is not really like Honda or Toyota. That implies that the two companies are almost equal. AMD and Intel are not almost equal. Intel has chips that AMD can't even come close to. The price disparity is also very significant for performance. The best AMD is $300, the best Intel is $1800 (desktop not server). 6:1 I will allow that Ferrari was a bit steep. However, Hyundai(AMD) at 30K vs a Maserati(Intel) at 130K would be more than a fair comparison. Yes they are both cars(cpu) and they both do the same thing basically, but one does it way better than the other. You are going to pay seriously more for that privilege.
 
[citation][nom]sonofliberty08[/nom]AMD cpu selling good on server section because server user are mostly knowledge computer user and they know what they need . Intel cpu selling good on personal computer section because home user has many computer noobs and retarded fanboy that trust for intel ad and they don't know what they really need . oh i work in the intel only computer shop b4 , there are no single AMD product in the shop because the shop get annual sponsor by the Intel . that's a secret that not much people know about it .[/citation]
You're entire comment is just stupid. Sorry. AMD does well in the server market because of their competitive pricing and superior power usage. Companies that still need the fastest avaliable go with intel, but in the server market, that's not usually the case. Get real.
[citation][nom]azxcvbnm321[/nom]The criticism leveled against AMD for not marketing is unwarranted. It costs money to market, lots of it. You don't think NASCAR lets you paint your logo on its cars for free do you? And sales representatives make more than minimum wage, plus they have big travel costs. You can't tell a sales rep to sleep in a rental car, and if you have local reps., you need a local office which costs $$$$ too. AMD doesn't have the bells and whistles of a sales team because it can't afford it. Not that it doesn't want to or think these ass-kissers aren't important, they simply can't afford them. Just like some of us can't afford a $4000 computer, we would like to have one, but it's beyond our means. That's why the article and the criticism of the high end system builder is ridiculous. They are asking for bells and whistles, both of which AMD cannot afford to provide. AMD should, and is, focusing all of its resources on R&D for better chips.[/citation]
And this would totally be true if AMD hadnt had such bad marketing even when they were doing very well in the market. Think back when the x2 was making it's rounds, putting a slam down on intel's Pentium D and 4, and even making large strides with huge OEM's while they were at it. (For instance dell moving away from intel exclusive)

When this was happening, they had plenty of cash. So much cash infact, they purchased ATI! They had more than enough to hire up a decent marketing team.
 
Guys i think AMD needs a better marketing strategy, as they have the good products they just need to know how to increase sales, in my opinion there is a huge section of ppl who buy branded PC or build by system-builder and dont want to get into the mess of assembling them self and due to this intel gets an edge with its pissed poor strategy of that rewarding thing.
If some how AMD starts providing more and more branded PC iam sure they gona win the race as they can provide far more options and range to end users then intel.
I am Indian and here i dont see much of options from AMD even i had to some times w8 for months for the latest relased cpus guys from AMD plz we all would love to see you at top, infact i want you at top.
 
[citation][nom]Curnel_D[/nom]You're entire comment is just stupid. Sorry. AMD does well in the server market because of their competitive pricing and superior power usage. Companies that still need the fastest avaliable go with intel, but in the server market, that's not usually the case. Get real.
And this would totally be true if AMD hadnt had such bad marketing even when they were doing very well in the market. Think back when the x2 was making it's rounds, putting a slam down on intel's Pentium D and 4, and even making large strides with huge OEM's while they were at it. (For instance dell moving away from intel exclusive)When this was happening, they had plenty of cash. So much cash infact, they purchased ATI! They had more than enough to hire up a decent marketing team.[/citation]
yes,this stupid commemt i post was to fool those stupid intel fanboy , but the intel sponsor thing are true , and how many intel stupid fanboy know when AMD K8 out performance the intel prescott cpu ?
 
[citation][nom]sonofliberty08[/nom]yes,this stupid commemt i post was to fool those stupid intel fanboy , but the intel sponsor thing are true , and how many intel stupid fanboy know when AMD K8 out performance the intel prescott cpu ?[/citation]
Yes, and that's a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. Intel is making computer manufacturers jobs easier because they 1) Advertise! and 2) Take care of the companies that purchase their products. That's good buisness.

And I think everyone knows that K8 was leagues ahead of prescott, but who cares? That was then and this is now. I'm not buying K8's or prescotts, so that past just doesnt matter to me. What matters to me and every other system builder is 'what' the customer wants. And even despite AMD's great price/performance ratio, almost everyone who wants a system built wants and Intel machine.
 
This 'article' it's about some system builder who does feel hurt because their beloved supplier has been slammed by EU. Of course they like Intel CPUs, they seem to NOT know that the current line of AMD CPU's can use DDR3 memory, they never heard of HyperTransport or similar concept.
On their CPU recommendation page I can see that:
This can improve memory performance significantly, but the current design lacks the flexibility to keep up with innovations in RAM technology, such as DDR2.
Click to expand...
Daniel Brown, customer support/lead technician remembers Nehalem architecture because
... has stuck with the 'metal bracket locking the CPU down' type of CPU mounting for LGA 1366. This means it is practically impossible to have a CPU damaged during shipping. This is a big advantage over ...(competitors)
Click to expand...
. Of course, the integrated memory controller doesn't improve too much this cpu's performance, and the new cache architecture neither.
William George, customer service says about E5xxx series CPU:
This CPU is a great value for budget systems, but be warned that it will only run with memory at 800MHz or less; anything faster will be down-clocked to 800MHz (I learned this the hard way)
Click to expand...
. Too sad ... I would expect more from a computer technician. I'm sure that the next time the Intel rep. will contact him too, to tell him about new technologies and limits.
 
[citation][nom]Curnel_D[/nom]Yes, and that's a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. Intel is making computer manufacturers jobs easier because they 1) Advertise! and 2) Take care of the companies that purchase their products. That's good buisness. And I think everyone knows that K8 was leagues ahead of prescott, but who cares? That was then and this is now. I'm not buying K8's or prescotts, so that past just doesnt matter to me. What matters to me and every other system builder is 'what' the customer wants. And even despite AMD's great price/performance ratio, almost everyone who wants a system built wants and Intel machine.[/citation]
1) that's intel dirty trick to bribe , and that's why intel was fined by the European Union .
2) that's why intel fanboy are stupid , because they don't know and they never know , and they still thought that they are enthusiasts because they spend more wronged money .
 
[citation][nom]enterco[/nom]This 'article' it's about some system builder who does feel hurt because their beloved supplier has been slammed by EU. Of course they like Intel CPUs, they seem to NOT know that the current line of AMD CPU's can use DDR3 memory, they never heard of Hyper Transport or similar concept. On their CPU recommendation page I can see that😀aniel Brown, customer support/lead technician remembers Nehalem architecture because . Of course, the integrated memory controller doesn't improve too much this cpu's performance, and the new cache architecture neither. William George, customer service says about E5xxx series CPU: . Too sad ... I would expect more from a computer technician. I'm sure that the next time the Intel rep. will contact him too, to tell him about new technologies and limits.[/citation]
Quotes like this "The AMD 64 CPU's can often give you the most "bang for your buck" when it comes to single-task applications (like gaming). Intel Pentium 4 CPU's have a feature called "Hyperthreading", which gives it a good speed boost when multi-tasking. Intel Pentium M processors are designed for laptops, to stay cool, but can actually offer great performance in any system, while keeping the fan noise levels down." from the very same page show the age of that page. And on further investigation, I cant even find a link to that page from their website. And you also have to understand that these guys are talking down to 98% of the people that 'read'(Past tense) this page.
[citation][nom]sonofliberty08[/nom]1) that's Intel dirty trick to bribe , and that's why Intel was fined by the European Union .2) that's why Intel fan-boy are stupid , because they don't know and they never know , and they still thought that they are enthusiasts because they spend more wronged money .[/citation]
1) No, that's totally wrong. Intel was fined because they were paying the large OEM's money even after discounts to delay or halt AMD built machines altogether. Discounts and sponsorships are they way of the trade. Millions of businesses do it.

2)Uh, what? Please don't insult others intelligence when you cant even manage to form a coherent sentence for the occasion.
 
[citation][nom]Curnel_D[/nom]1) No, that's totally wrong. Intel was fined because they were paying the large OEM's money even after discounts to delay or halt AMD built machines altogether. Discounts and sponsorships are they way of the trade. Millions of businesses do it.[/citation]
normal sponsorships will not force the retail shop to not selling competitor product , if they selling competitor product , then the retail shop will face with punishment and lose their sponsorship .
 
[citation][nom]sonofliberty08[/nom]normal sponsorships will not force the retail shop to not selling competitor product , if they selling competitor product , then the retail shop will face with punishment and lose their sponsorship .[/citation]
Yea, and there's no chance in hell that it will happen. It's happened in the past, and Intel is answering for it. In the 6 years I've been working with an intel rep, and the 3 years I've been dealing with him as a company owner, he's never once suggested that I drop all of my AMD product, and deffinately hasnt suggested I'd loose my intel support if I didnt.

Infact, 65% of the systems I build are AMD equipted. But that's also because a majority of my sales market is mainstream and server. In the past 3 years, I've probably only built 3 or maybe four AMD gaming machines. The rest were Intel. And the sole reason is customer demand. Please try and close that gap of ignorance before you start spouting about 'how it is'.

And just out of curiosity if the devs are still reading, why was this article taken down from the main TH.com page?
 
I own an AMD 720 and Intel core i7. Honestly for 90% of the stuff I do, a better hard drive would speed things up more. Spend the extra money on an OCZ Vertex or Intel SSD. If you are going with a motherboard with built in video I still think AMD/ATI is far superior. Intel video chipsets suck right now. Intel is giving nvidia the shaft.
 
Ask any general person and he would say Intel...why? coz from most of the ppl he hears about intel...but ask him some differences...most probably he would say Intel is faster than Amd...and then as how fast...he wont have any clue 😛...so it's also AMD's fault (m pro AMD, but still I admit their deficiency in marketing)...but yeah for general public or even researchers AMD is comparable to INTEL...try to run any heavy FEA s/w on Intel and AMD...their will nto b much difference in run time (hardly 5-10 sec. on 1hr run)...so we sud pay double to get 10 sec gain!!!...r u kidding me
 
If Intel could win on a level playing field, why would they pay customers extra for exclusive or near exclusive Intel use, etc? Most of the cons listed against AMD have to do with a lack of money which is siphoned off by margin cutting to overcome monopolistic Intel business practices.
 
[citation][nom]Curnel_D[/nom]And the sole reason is customer demand[/citation]
A demand based on this kind of suggestions WILL make buyers believe that Intel based systems are 'the best choice' for them. That page does not make any reference to AMD CPUs telling people that they could pay less for a balanced/mainstream system, but all Intel CPUs are 'puget preferred' parts.
If in my previous comment I wasn't clear enough: some of the pugetsystems tech guys are incompetent, including Daniel Broun, a 'lead' technician: no reference to QPI (similar to AMD HyperTransport!), no reference to L3 Cache, no reference to HyperTransport, no reference to integrated memory controller (i7 series), reference to 'I had to hit the wall to understand' (fsb 800).
The reseller success does not only depend on what marketing strategy has the supplier, but also on what strategy has the reseller. In this case, we hear complaints about 'how bad is AMD's marketing', but we see that the reseller only promoted intel stuff. What's to complain about? That AMD doesn't rip off the skin from ALL it's customers, to give bigger bonuses to the resellers? Since it's a business, these bonuses are coming from the customer's pocket, not anywhere else. the way I see it (from EU), is just like this: pugetsystems in fact promoted intel, and tells us stories like 'the customers are not asking for amd!'. Of course they won't ask as long as they see only your negative opinion about AMD.
 
[citation][nom]enterco[/nom]A demand based on this kind of suggestions WILL make buyers believe that Intel based systems are 'the best choice' for them. That page does not make any reference to AMD CPUs telling people that they could pay less for a balanced/mainstream system, but all Intel CPUs are 'puget preferred' parts. If in my previous comment I wasn't clear enough: some of the pugetsystems tech guys are incompetent, including Daniel Broun, a 'lead' technician: no reference to QPI (similar to AMD HyperTransport!), no reference to L3 Cache, no reference to HyperTransport, no reference to integrated memory controller (i7 series), reference to 'I had to hit the wall to understand' (fsb 800).The reseller success does not only depend on what marketing strategy has the supplier, but also on what strategy has the reseller. In this case, we hear complaints about 'how bad is AMD's marketing', but we see that the reseller only promoted intel stuff. What's to complain about? That AMD doesn't rip off the skin from ALL it's customers, to give bigger bonuses to the resellers? Since it's a business, these bonuses are coming from the customer's pocket, not anywhere else. the way I see it (from EU), is just like this: pugetsystems in fact promoted intel, and tells us stories like 'the customers are not asking for amd!'. Of course they won't ask as long as they see only your negative opinion about AMD.[/citation]
The page that everyone seems to be refering to is 1) Not up to date, since it happens to be talking up the benifits of the original single core AMD 64's, and the pentium 4/M series. And 2) almost impossible to get to (You have to google the page to find it, since there isnt an avaliable link to it from their home page. Or search real hard to find the obscure hidden link) So I think it's about time we agree to stop bashing the system builder for an outdated and unavaliable page.

And Puget systems is a high performance builder, so they have every reason to promote Intel over AMD. Most of their customers are going to be buying $2000+ machines. With that in mind, we all know Intel has better performance despite how much it costs. So from a performance oriented builder, they're totally right. Intel>AMD.
Ask a system builder who deals with mainstream buyers and you'll hear a different story, but despite that, you'll still hear about AMD's poor marketing.

I've literally had customers demand a celeron over a higher performing AMD chip because they believe Intel is better than AMD, and it's pure marketing. And that's what keeps intel ahead at this point.

And like I said before, I dont want to hear about AMD's lack of money. Their marketing problems started long before they threw down the cash to buy AMD. They had the money and still mismanaged. That's all there is to it. Great technology, great cost/performance ratio, Plain awful management.
 
[citation][nom]spathi[/nom]I still use a p4 HT 478 @ 3.2 (2004) and I am still happy with it, when I got a HD3850 all the other people that were left in the forums that had PC's that worked OK were some Pentium M (2004) and some AMD x2 (2005-2006) gamers. AMD processors from before 2005 stuttered too much in games and had bad chipset bugs.I don't think it matters now, todays CPU's are probably fast enough to survive for 5+ years.[/citation]

I think the stuttering problem was more on the part of programmers, and learning new technology over time. *Cough* Half Life 2 64 bit *Cough*, but it is understandable because at that time they were new to the parallel and 64-bit programming.
 
[citation][nom]Curnel_D[/nom]I've literally had customers demand a celeron over a higher performing AMD chip because they believe Intel is better than AMD.[/citation]
that's why they said intel fanboy are stupid 😀
 
[citation][nom]sonofliberty08[/nom]that's why they said intel fanboy are stupid[/citation]
No, those arent fanboys. Just uneducated consumers that arent informed enough to know better.

Fanboy is a term used to describe any man who is devoted to a single subject in an emotional or fanatical manner, or to a single point of view within that subject, often to the point where it is considered an obsession. (Such as refusing to see the scope of a certain article because it may shine a bad light on a certain company that said individual may have an obsession with.)
 
BTW, just would like to remind you all, without AMD we would not have:

Multi-Core (We might have this without them, but the are the first to make one for the PC)
Integrated Memory Controller
Hyper-Transport for Personal Computers
x86-64 instruction set
Shader Model 4.0
Advancement in technology of course
and the most important, pricing of products FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE CONSUMER!


...and maybe the Xbox 360?? 😛 (Xenos GPU, 1st GPU made with unified shaders, manufactured by AMD)
 
All you AMD fanatics are just feeling subconsciously bad about your misguided purchases. You all said the same crap before Intel introduced NET BURST and was thereby dominated by AMD until 3 years ago.

Funny how when a fanboys architecture is on top, it's all about performance and when it's on the bottom it's all about price.

All you need to do now is start yelling how much better you like Linux and your downward spiral into underdog shame will be complete.
 
Basic point is made I think, part of the reason Intel is ahead is that Intel does more, legitimately, to market their products than AMD does; they provide better support, in other words.

That is part of my point when I said (I'm sure all of you remember my post in another thread, lol) Intel is a fine company with great products, and doesn't need to pay people to NOT use competitors' products. They are, they have the quality and the support.

I will argue against one statement - you said you aren't arguing performance, but in fact you are, because, as you said, you are promarily influenced by customer demand, and customer demand is largely determined by performance in the enthusiast market (which is what the autrhor's comany is all about).

😉

 
[citation][nom]dman157[/nom]BTW, just would like to remind you all, without AMD we would not have:Multi-Core (We might have this without them, but the are the first to make one for the PC)Integrated Memory ControllerHyper-Transport for Personal Computersx86-64 instruction setShader Model 4.0Advancement in technology of courseand the most important, pricing of products FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE CONSUMER!...and maybe the Xbox 360?? (Xenos GPU, 1st GPU made with unified shaders, manufactured by AMD)[/citation]


I agree partially; I think we would have these things eventually, but not yet. Certainly lower pricing is an exception, we wouldn't have that.

We owe AMD a lot in the desktop CPU world, and I for one built AMD until the i7. My second build this year is Phenom II based, built primarily on that platform to support AMD; it is the first product in a couple of years worth supporting, imo. Bottom line, I could pretty much care less about a few watts of power saved as an enthusiast level builder, I want the best performance, and it's not what have you done for me but what are you doing for me now.

That's capitalism, and that will in turn spur AMD on to produce even better products; the cycle contimues, newer ideas get in to porduction far faster and we all benefit from that. As an enthusiast, I'm not going to reward them for producing products I don't want. As a capitalist (that understands TRUE capitalism; paying people to NOT buy competitor's products is anti-competition so anti-capitalism), I want better products with better support as soon as I can get them, so it makes sense to support AMD since they are the only desktop competitor (and why that is, I don't understand, there are other good CPU makers out there that just don't compete for the home computer business).

So, as I see it, it's AMD's choice; produce competitive products and get supported, or produce insipid products and go back to the way they were pre-Athlon. I wont support mediocrity, but I will support true competition. With my dollars, which is the kind of vote that counts.

😉
 
hey imay not be huge system builder / i have only built about 12 / but ihave always had trouble with those damn push pin mounts on the intel boards i have had them break and bend the mother board / never had any problems instaling amd / and as far as speed the average never notices the small differences
also amd cpu's are very reliable and seem to run cooler
 
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