Intel bribing THG? Is it possible?

CorwinB · Sep 30, 2003

Just exactly what is AMD ramming down our throats? You seem to be missing a few key points.

You are missing my point : for fanboys, when Intel is doing it with Rambus it's "ramming down the throat", whereas AMD is "pushing the envelop" or some random nonsense. I'm not saying Intel pushing Rambus was good, or that AMD pushing ECC is bad. But they are both equally good or equally bad.

In one hand you critisize AMD for releasing a server chips with albiet minor alterations and market it as a desktop chip and at the same time acknowledge Intel has done the exact same thing.

Pot calling kettle... Please respond kettle...

As explained by several posters in this thread, the P4EE is a repackaged server chip, running on consumer-level motherboards with consumer-level RAM. The A64FX, OTOH, is a remarketed server chip, needing new and expensive motherboards and server-level RAM. When the 939-pin version is available, then AMD will have released a new desktop processor. Until then, it's as much of a paper-launch for the desktop market as the 1.13GHz P3, the XP2600+, or the P4EE.

Incitatus · Sep 30, 2003

Windows 64 bit is slated for release first half of 2004, 64 bit version of 3ds max is said to be pretty much ready for release, 64 bit version of photoshop can't be far away

. Good enough for me

Crashman · Sep 30, 2003

Omid, I'm still unemployed. My computer business that boomed for 5 years is now bust. I had to fire myself because of local market conditions!

I still live just 4 hours away from THG's Ohio office. I would still be eternally greatfull for a writing job. And being unemployed, I'm willing to accept reasonable pay for my hard work!

Hire me as an associate editor! If you don't need a full time assistant, I'm willing to work any available hours!

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

Crashman · Sep 30, 2003

I hope AMD is successful in stunning tens of thousands of users into buying their latest products, simply because they need that to remain competitave in the future. I'm not out their discrediting anything in the larger market, just here at THG where I expect people to know a bit more about technology.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

pied_piper2004 · Sep 30, 2003

**Edited for Eden**

At first I thought the whole idea behind the bribe thing was immature and rubbish. I got to tell you Omid, after reading the your posts (GM for Toms-hardware) I am now fully convinced that you and Tom are totally Intel bias! Yeah you heard me.

You are going way beyond the call of duty here to make AMD look bad, like a toy company ran by monkeys or something. You even insults people who support them. Well I never. Your posts are way too personal and worded to impress the zealots and all I can get from you is angst against AMD.

I don’t care about their marketing or business practices, all I care about is how much I pay for the performance of their CPU. I thought in the end that was the job in which TH was suppose to do?!? Give me an analysis on the performance and not your take on what you would do if you were AMDs CEO!

And please stop bringing up AMD financial problems. I’ve been able to buy top performing CPUs from AMD at a lower cost then Intel for the last 6 years. That to me is what is important. Mr. Omid!

-Pied

Edited by pied_piper2004 on 09/29/03 10:58 PM.

pied_piper2004 · Sep 30, 2003

Holly Christ your lame.

They are not pushing it… clearly it’s an enthusiast product; a lot of people have money to burn. Obviously not everyone, so they will buy the AMD 64 3200+…

What is so hard to get here?

FX is a server chip design just for that. AMD pull it in to compete with Intel at a higher level. The 3200+ is the mainstream part.

Sheesh!

eden · Sep 30, 2003

Hey, YOOHOO! Do you realize Saintbabs IS Omid and you just talked behind the guy's back to him?
RO-freaking-FL!

thought in the end that was the job in which TH was suppose to do?!?

Didn't they tried that in the review?

Give me an analysis on the performance and not your take on what you would do if you were AMDs CEO!

That's why THG, as a journalistic site, HAS COLUMNS. Omid used the column to deliver an editorial. Ever seen editorials in newspapers? Do they not have the right to an opinion?
Omid has done JACK wrong, he is only saying his opinion, and if people like you can't bother to ignore the damn article posted, well too-flaking-bad! Run to other sites! At least THG has a voice, not just a neutral brain-dead article only position. It's good to know the people there can deliver messages.
---
Just as an off-topic addressing: Tom left making articles because of bigots and people who flamed him and called him a Nazi. In retort he stopped writing. Why write if you will get flamed?
---

I’ve been able to buy top performing CPUs from AMD at a lower cost then Intel for the last 6 years.

And for the last 6 years you've been drowning AMD as well, wow, great feeling huh?

It's only now that they're perhaps on their way to a more sane economical management. AMD's problem is they cater to people who only want to pay 100$ for CPUs. Well, that is making them LOSE and yet you party about it.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new">This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </A> :lol:

Ncogneto · Sep 30, 2003

Yet, it can't possibly be all things to all me because, and listen carefully, it doesn't have the resources. It is spread thin. It needs focus

Actually I agree. So what AMD was to build a chip that could be viable in both markets. You can argue that they would be better off sticking to one market and you may be right. Time will tell. They had two options and they choose A while you think they would have been better off choosing B, who are you to say at this point they were wrong?

Can you compare an Opteron or Athlon 64 to an Itanium?

No, and AMD never intended to go against the Itanium. If they built a chip to do so and stole 75% of Itanium's market from intel the chip would still lose huge amounts of money.

and frankly, you could just as easily argue that by building a 64-bit architecture from the ground up, Intel is doing the computing world a favor by trying to move us away from x86 architectures.

You could make that argument if they were the first to do so. Newsflash...they weren't.

I have said that AMD has a clear advantage over Intel that it should be exploiting[/quote}

I agree

As far as Athlon 64s are concerned, how long before there is a viable 64-bit software market that justifies the AMD feature set for 32/64 bit migration?

Click to expand...

On and on and on about 64 bit. You seem to be forgetting the fact that it runs just fine in 32 bit mode. The argument about us not needing 64 bit yet is quite frankly getting tired. The A64 doesnt need it to perform well and its really wouldn't be that hard for intel to add it to the p4.

How difficult does anyone think it is going to be for Intel to come up with 64-bit extensions and get software support for it, no matter how long of a lead AMD has?

Click to expand...

Its difficulty would be next to none. It would however portray AMD is an innovator and not a follower. I suspect AMD actually hopes Intel does adopt 64 bit.

At the end of the day, for the next couple of years, the market is going to be so overwhelmingly 32-bit that the 64-bit feature set is not a compelling argument for anyone to switch to AMD.

Click to expand...

By itself no its not. But when it copmetes on a price/performance level of Intel and has that to offer as a bonus it might give it just enough of an edge.

Technology leadership and innovation is immaterial in this instance. AMD has done some good work from an engineering perspective, but the computing world is littered with the bodies of companies that did good engineering only to have it fall apart in sales and marketing.

Yet, I don't see anyone give me a compelling argument, or showing me how AMD has got its act together on the sales and marketing front.

Click to expand...

AMD's marketing does suck. The whole 64 bit thing is just that...marketing. See it for what it is. Remember the P4 Willy? The whole "it has more megahertz so it must be faster myth"? Well, we knew there was a little more to it than that but the general public bought right into it. Likewise, 64 bit must be 2x as good as 32 bit. However, at least with 64 bit we eventually will see improvements.

At the end of the day, for the next couple of years, the market is going to be so overwhelmingly 32-bit that the 64-bit feature set is not a compelling argument for anyone to switch to AMD.

Click to expand...

It is if the processor AMD is marketting competes with Intel on a price standpoint in 32 bit but yet offers 64 bit support as well.

It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!Edited by ncogneto on 09/29/03 10:12 PM.

eden · Sep 30, 2003

They are not pushing it… clearly it’s an enthusiast product; a lot of people have money to burn. Obviously not everyone, so they will buy the AMD 64 3200+…

What is so hard to get here?

FX is a server chip design just for that. AMD pull it in to compete with Intel at a higher level. The 3200+ is the mainstream part.

Though I am starting to draw a parallel here. It reminds me a bit of ATi and the 9500PRO. They used the R300 silicon, and just disabled parts. That was bad on their profits, in fact no matter how well the 9500 sold, it was still the same silicon, therefore occupied a lot of wafer space just so later most of it gets disabled, and cost more. I am hoping this is not AMD's case with the A64 FX, what with selling it less than Opteron 1xx (technically once Opteron 150 comes out), and not removing the HT links.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new">This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </A> :lol:

pied_piper2004 · Sep 30, 2003

Hey, YOOHOO! Do you realize Saintbabs IS Omid and you just talked behind the guy's back to him?
RO-freaking-FL!

--What, I know Saintbabs / Omid are the same guy… what’s your point? I didn’t talk behind his back; I hit reply to comment directly to him… WTF are you high?

--Are you in love with this guy? Do you want a job at TH? You always run in to defend Omid’s opinions, do you have any of your own?

That's why THG, as a journalistic site, HAS COLUMNS. Omid used the column to deliver an editorial. Ever seen editorials in newspapers? Do they not have the right to an opinion?
Omid has done JACK wrong, he is only saying his opinion, and if people like you can't bother to ignore the damn article posted, well too-flaking-bad! Run to other sites! At least THG has a voice, not just a neutral brain-dead article only position. It's good to know the people there can deliver messages.
---
Just as an off-topic addressing: Tom left making articles because of bigots and people who flamed him and called him a Nazi. In retort he stopped writing. Why write if you will get flamed?

---Yeah, an editorial and I’m responding to it, with my own opinion, what is strange about that?!? Speaking of newspaper, many people write back to the newspaper columnist with their views and opinions in reflection to what was written, that’s the magic with throwing your opinions out there to the public. Is there something with that process you don’t understand?

And for the last 6 years you've been drowning AMD as well, wow, great feeling huh?

It's only now that they're perhaps on their way to a more sane economical management. AMD's problem is they cater to people who only want to pay 100$ for CPUs. Well, that is making them LOSE and yet you party about it.

--Again, it’s a company, not a religion. Another one will come around. AMD did what they did because of little choice! Intel is one big giant ape, thrashing about. In the meantime I get the rewards, why did you decide to pay more?

pied_piper2004 · Sep 30, 2003

ATI had money to burn to make that mistake. I doubt AMD would do this considering their financial state.

eden · Sep 30, 2003

You definitely put it right Omid.

There is however one thing I disagree with and should point out.
64-bit apps that are demanding, are starting to appear or be hyped, and from many of these sources, AMD64 seems to boost significantly rendering or encoding time. Whether it is the 64-bit itself that helps, or simply the extra registers, is unknown. However, the support from many of these companies comes from the fact this extension is helping them BY A LOT, in making their programs high-performing. Take DivX for example.

To me it seems like big companies may adopt it, not because AMD told them, but because they found the features there (may not even be the 64-bit usage itself!) to actually significantly boost their productivity and the end user.

That is undeniable and should be at least addressed in this issue.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new">This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </A> :lol:

Ncogneto · Sep 30, 2003

You are missing my point : for fanboys, when Intel is doing it with Rambus it's "ramming down the throat", whereas AMD is "pushing the envelop" or some random nonsense. I'm not saying Intel pushing Rambus was good, or that AMD pushing ECC is bad. But they are both equally good or equally bad.

No, you are missing the point. Intel offered no alternative to RAMBUS nor had any intention at all of doing so. AMD has already announced that the upcoming 64 fx will support unbuffered RAM. Intel deliberately tried to force you to adopt RDRAM, a new product, period. And they did this at least partially due to huge incentives offered by RAMBUS. ECC is not a new product. AMD is not being offered incentives by makers of ECC RAM. And AMD does still plan to support unbuffered RAM. Why does this escape you? If ECC RAM had the volume of Non ECC RAM it would be marginally more $ than unbuffered RAM. There not forcing it down your throat. There telling you right up front, Here is the 64fx, it needs ECC RAM, if this is not acceptable wait.

The A64FX, OTOH, is a remarketed server chip, needing new and expensive motherboards and server-level RAM.

Yeah it needs a new motherboard...whoopee. Server level? Hardly. Where is the pci-x? Integrated u320 SCSI? Server level my butt. Expensive is relative.

Until then, it's as much of a paper-launch for the desktop market as the 1.13GHz P3, the XP2600+, or the P4EE.

Crapola! you can buy the processor right now.

It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!Edited by ncogneto on 09/29/03 09:39 PM.

pied_piper2004 · Sep 30, 2003

Well said, ncogneto.

Ncogneto · Sep 30, 2003

One simple question I would like to ask you. Over the next few years what do you see happening to the amount of RAM in a normal desktop system? 1 gig? 2 gigs? more? Currently I know I run 1 gig on my desktop. At what point (if any) do you see ECC RAM as becoming advisable?

It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!

eden · Sep 30, 2003

Ok, I'm warning you, I'm gonna enjoy quoting you back to prove how hypocritical you just sounded!

What, I know Saintbabs / Omid are the same guy… what’s your point? I didn’t talk behind his back; I hit reply to comment directly to him… WTF are you high?

Oh yeah? Let us go quote you back to see what you sounded to all of us:

I got to tell you, after reading the posts from this Omid guy (GM for Toms-hardware) I am now fully convinced that they are totally Intel bias! Yeah you heard me.

He is going way beyond the call of duty here to make AMD look bad like a toy company ran by monkeys or something. He even insults the people who support them. Well I never. His posts are way too personal and worded to impress the zealots and all I can get from him is angst against AMD.

So you're speaking to HIM but address him as a HE? Stop BSing, concede you didn't know it was him and you tried to talk like that behind him, in front of him, making it truly ridiculous!

Are you in love with this guy? Do you want a job at TH? You always run in to defend Omid’s opinions, do you have any of your own?

You've barely attained any rank with your post count. Now check mine to see how long I've been along with my register date. Do you know me enough?

Yeah, an editorial and I’m responding to it, with my own opinion, what is strange about that?!? Speaking of newspaper, many people write back to the newspaper columnist with their views and opinions in reflection to what was written, that’s the magic with throwing your opinions out there to the public. Is there something with that process you don’t understand?

A token to you not even being on topic and being hypocritical:

Give me an analysis on the performance and not your take on what you would do if you were AMDs CEO!

Considering your first part addresses clearly the article authors, I'll assume your second part is addressing the columns. Therefore, the editorials he posted about AMD, are HIS OPINIONS, and you are still flaming him for posting them, because you don't want such, you just want "performance analysis'".

Again, it’s a company, not a religion. Another one will come around. AMD did what they did because of little choice!

Um, when the Athlon came out, it wasn't 500$ cheaper you know, it was not more than 100$. That is still enough to warrant big profits, and it proved their performance was worth the price.

why did you decide to pay more?

So you still think you know me and what I own?

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new">This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </A> :lol:

Ncogneto · Sep 30, 2003

I read it. For what it is worth I think he was fully aware of who he was refering too. Why else would he talk about "the posts from this Omid guy (GM for Toms-hardware)" In other words he is replying to his post but speaking to the general audience.

I disagree with attacking Omid personally but do reserve the right to disagree with his opinion. Moreover I am not sure if it is advisable for anyone holding the GM position of a publication that is supposed to be neutral to post editorials. This being said I kind of like it. However, he is entitled to have an opinion and I welcome to here it. What you need to except that by doing so in this forumn, he opens himself up for the same type of scrutiny as any other poster. Therefore if he offers an opinion as he has, he should be more than willing to defend that position. The fact that he is who he is should have no bearing. This is why opinions are like ********, myself included. As they say, everyone has one.

It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!Edited by ncogneto on 09/29/03 10:38 PM.

pied_piper2004 · Sep 30, 2003

Holly smokes, you listen well. Although it said posted by..... at the bottom of his post he had his signature.

Hear is what I saw...
Omid Rahmat
GM & Publisher
Tom's Guides Publishing
www.tomshardware.com

Should I take out my crayons and draw it for you? - Mr. I've been here for a long time and gosh darn it people back me up? ... your like stewart from SNL...

eden · Sep 30, 2003

I agree with you very well, and understand what you mean.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see Omid angry at AMD nor against them, but he is angry at their actions and the fanboys behind them.

However anyone can disagree. Why, I just did before, to him!
So we are ok on this one hehe.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new">This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </A> :lol:

eden · Sep 30, 2003

My point still stands, your post to him had major FUD and it seemed like you had no clue in the first half of your post that you were addressing him.

I know of no forum user, who frequents a board with a Reply To feature, and replies to someone they want to talk to, but don't address him directly. That is actually twisted.

Shall I start in this post addressing you as HE? "Pied_Pipe2004, I can't believe that guy would do that. I am convinced, he is biased!"
Maybe you can see then what I am trying to convey here. It almost sounded disrespectful at Omid.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new">This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </A> :lol:

pied_piper2004 · Sep 30, 2003

Look you want last word on this, fine it's yours :🙄: - but yeah, I meant to "post a new one" instead by mistake I hit reply, so twisted of me.

FUD... what FUD? - get your backup buddies... because I don't see FUD.

Edited by pied_piper2004 on 09/29/03 10:53 PM.

eden · Sep 30, 2003

"sigh". I won't bother. You're still new here, I guess I should just give you a break.
Lord knows I've been too hard on many lately.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new">This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </A> :lol:

pied_piper2004 · Sep 30, 2003

It’s OK! You’re just another post to me… no needs for your breaks… big forum guy.

Can I ask you a question? What is your fascination with pointing out that I’m new and got to learn the ropes?

I know you put your time here, but still, it’s a public posting forum, no one owns it.

I see a lot of “we” when you reply, making it seem like you’re behind this wall of posting veterans ready to back you up… yeah backup buddies. Have fun.

Please, back to the topic… I don’t live by forum ethics.

-pied

Edited by pied_piper2004 on 09/29/03 11:08 PM.

eden · Sep 30, 2003

What is your fascination with pointing out that I’m new and got to learn the ropes?

Posts like "THG IS INTEL BIASED" on your part make you much less of the informed here than any other. I suspect you did not even read the very well thought out arguments that nullify any stupid statement as such.

it’s a public posting forum, no one owns it.

And I'm not in any position to tell you to leave or tell you how to behave, but I sure can point out when you've said some things you should think twice of. Like you said, it's a public posting.

I see a lot of “we” when you reply, making it seem like you’re behind this wall of posting veterans ready to back you up… yeah backup buddies. Have fun.

I've gone back up this page of posting by me and cannot find where I had a WE statement. Please quote me, otherwise don't spew. I'll gladly concede if proven wrong. Until then, what you're saying has no relevance to the topic.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new">This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </A> :lol:

eden · Sep 30, 2003

Gotta vouch for Crashman. I think you should give him a chance and read his sample article writing!

Crash is one of the most respected forum members, is an oldie among us, knows his thing and has helped tons and tons. He's in fact the one who causes the creation of new post titles because he exceeds the limit! I think he's at like 20 000 posts hehe.
But I digress.

I do think you should consider him in case you have a spot. At least give him a chance to provide you some of his text samples.

--
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Intel bribing THG? Is it possible?

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