Intel bribing THG? Is it possible?

[pied_piper2004]

--Regardless, that’s my opinion, I don’t agree with yours or your support group.

--I based my opinion solely on what Omid said... and not the consenting points, period. Right or wrong it’s comparative.

--Oh, I read it, and it’s between the lines anyways… clearly you bring up this “I’ve been here for a long time and people gosh darn it respect me” thing all the time, this is your home, and strangers are coming in, they should learn their manners. That’s all good and all… but quit using it for defending your points. Quit dancing and get to it.

-pied

 

[eden]

I've used it once for my own self, because it seemed you could judge me based on a few posts.

Then, I said to YOU about your newbie status relative to others here to show you that you HAVE not seen the full picture. It's fine by me when someone is new here. I think ColwinB's posts have proven me he is more worthy of my respect despite him being a stranger here than yours. And yet I do not entirely agree with his arguments.


--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol:

 

[pied_piper2004]

I could understand that, I’ve been on your case all night, I didn’t want to, and I apologize for that. For years I’ve routed for you (I’ve been coming here for a while), you use to defend AMD quite a bit along side with Matirismo (Forgot his name). What happen?

Again I don’t expect you to respect me, but I’ve lost respect for you as well. I don’t like how you jump ship all the time. It’s difficult to trust your views, you constantly go with the consensus; follow the leader type character, like Omid for example. You back up anything he says.

Back in the day, when AMD had a performance edge, you were all over it… now your Intel, because of hyper threading (whatever its called)… but what I find most disturbing is that you're not giving AMD the same token for their technological advances as you would Intel, unless of course everybody changed consensus and along you come in the new camp.

You trump the horns with Intel’s new tech, but what about 64 BIT? – HP wasn’t shown to be effective at all time, yet I think you know with industry support 64 bit could have a bigger impact, yet you stay clear from that. Why?

-Pied

 

[endyen]

So Eden, are you starting to see the value of 64bit, or do you still think the extra registers will do squat for games.

 

[spud]

See what fan boys do, they twist what you say to make themselves look like the victims that you are the ogre that has come to smack AMD to little bitty bits.

They bring in the technology to the argument as their only defendable point which isn’t even what you were discussing. Business is what Omid was talking about. AMD as a business is a god damned joke. They absolutely believe that these misfits that call themselves enthusiast which in actuality are fan boys are going to push their product to the world they actually believe that some 14 year old shits that don’t even have jobs are going to pull themselves from the red.

It aint gonna happen folks, AMD need guidance and vision not this bullshit we can take down Intel a notch for a few months till they can roll out with better silicon. It’s stupid everyone that runs a business knows planning for the short term is basically signing the bankruptcy papers.

But what can you do right all of us can talk the talk but not one of you big mouth punks got the denro right now to drop it on this new revolutionary chip.

I myself have bought 7 Intel chips in the last 3 years you can call me a fan boy sure but you know what I want to Intel's profits soar and I want them to smack the Industry around every time it thinks its gonna go a different way. I’m a capitalist red neck bastard that wants to see them go to the top. Am I a fan boy sure but at least I am walking the walk instead of just talking the talk.

No matter how much we talk about it AMD needs new management they need new direction and they need partners. If not they will always be this little shite stain in the CPU market.

-Jeremy

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7013108" target="_new">Busting Sh@t Up!!!</A>
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[CorwinB]

Intel offered no alternative to RAMBUS nor had any intention at all of doing so.

What about the i815 ? The 815 was a pretty good chipset, that supported a nice amount of features, and was using SDRAM. It also came out after the 820, which supported Rambus. After that, it's true that for the beginning of the P4 production, Intel was stuck in an exclusive deal with Rambus that prevented them to ship a high-tech chipset featuring DDR. That is solved now, I think. So there is no "Intel forced RDRAM down our throat" while "Poor AMD asks you to wait a little while". That's fanboyism, but the first step of true fanboyism is denial, so I don't expect you to accept it.

Expensive is relative.

We can all agree on that. One thing we can also agree on (I hope) is that if Intel and AMD charge similar prices for a given level of service, then it's not expensive for one and cheap for the other... I also take note that you specifically didn't answer the point regarding the ECC-RAM, except by your comment about prices going down with volume going up (why people didn't say the same thing with regard to RDRAM pricing speak volume about said people's objectivity). And this pricing argument is only true to a certain extent : ECC-RAM still needs additional testing and is more expensive to manufacture.

Crapola! you can buy the processor right now.

Yeah, and I can either look at it in its shiny box if I don't want to invest on a server-level platform. I could also technically buy myself a Xeon-based server (complete with motherboard and ECC-RAM) and pretend I have a P4EE desktop...

 

[endyen]

You want something we can all agree on? The xp2500 is as good as the P4 2.4b. The Intel chip costs twice what the amd chip does. The Amd chip is a better value. The nforce boards run as stable and as well as any 533 board for Intel. The nforce boards cost a little more than the "intel boards". All in all an xp2500 on an nforce board is a far better solution than an intel chip with a 533 fsb board. Only an idiot would buy the intel package.
85% of all computers sold today were Intel. 80% of those were 2.4b or slower. The reason Amd is not the #1 cpu manufacturer is because most people who buy computers are idiots.

 

[spud]

sure, they arent #1 because they cant produce enough of them. AMD is small time no matter what anyone thinks now IBM fabs can churn out soo much. Intel can smash IBM in mass they have more fabs.

AMD needs money and partners and they might stand a small chance of putting Intel down.

-Jeremy

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7013108" target="_new">Busting Sh@t Up!!!</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1311896" target="_new">Busting More Sh@t Up!!!</A>

 

[CorwinB]

The reason Amd is not the #1 cpu manufacturer is because most people who buy computers are idiots.

True fanboy speak... What about :
- The so-called "enthusiast" market, for all the chest-thumping and noise it generates, is nothing but a ridiculous part of the PC market. Low-cost, no-hassle configs (ie your random Dell/HP low-end business desktop) beats it on volume, and the server market beats it on margins.
- currently, no AMD chipset has the required stability and/or cost to compete in any of those much larger business segments. You know, the average joe has no willingness to update his motherboard BIOS monthly to fix yet another IDE error, or some similar AGP crap (VIA 4-in-1, anyone ? )That's not because he's an idiot as you kindly point out, but because he has far more important and productive things to do with his time than to fix his PC just to "prove" that "his" CPU manufacturer is "t3h b3st0 ev4r". Dell, HP... understood this and the appeal of the Macintosh model : computers that, you know, just <i>work</i>. That may be hard to understand for a fanboy, but there are billions of people out there who don't give a damn about Intel or AMD. Their bottom line is not even performance/price ratio, but rather stability/price ratio. For Michael Dell, it costs far less to go with Intel than to pay expensive support staff and technicians to update BIOS/whatever on AMD configs. IMHO, AMD makes very nice processors, but doesn't have the ressources or the willingness to enforce strong stability standards on his chipset partners.

Regarding your actual facts (XP2500 vs P4 2.4b), I never said that AMD didn't offer a good performance/price value, even better than Intel at some specific price points, provided you are willing to go the extra length it takes to make an AMD-based system (chipset mostly) solid. Before you put words in my mouth, I don't say it can't be done. I'm saying that for people not living in the computer world (which, guess what, make a majority of even the people buying computers), it's not worth the hassle.

AMD fanatics make me laugh the same way Linux fanatics do... They just don't understand that for most people computers are not a way of life, but a tool, and that technology is there to help them, not the other way around. Relying on the "enthusiast" community may give you an "attitude", but is certainly no sensible way to do business, which I think is the point Omid tried to make. He did not comment on the technical side, or even on the value of AMD chips, but about the current (lack of) vision at AMD.

So, you are (like most self-proclaimed "enthusiasts") both arrogant and unknowledgeable of how the real world works with your "idiots" comment. What you could understand if your vision wasn't so clouded by your adoration of a <i>corporation</i>, is that even if you were true, then the only sensible way for a company to make money and thrive would be to cater to "idiots". Or, like every other fanboy, you are expecting AMD to automagically stick around with their "l33t attitude" while posting negative results each and every quarter ? If you really believe what you say, and you really like AMD, then you should pressure them to sell chips to "idiots", since that's where the money is ("a fool and his money...").

 

[Guest]

I was gonna write a lengthy reply to this, but it isn't worth it. You sound like a clueless teenager that doesn't understand the first thing about the IT industry, doesn't have *any* real world experience in the field, someone that knows no more than what goes on on sites like THG and who's idea and value or performance is limited to Quake and sysmark. someone who's world is limited to this forum and its "fanboy" flamewars, but thinks he stands above them and therefore would make a better CEO than Hector Ruiz or a better marketeer then Steve Jobs. But wait.. you don't only sound like all that: you ARE all that.

you have no idea who quotes likes this one: <i>"The problem is that with the enthusiast community behind it, AMD doesn't have to make any hard decisions. It falls back on its fan base, and that, to me, and this is my opinon only, is a sign of weakness"</i> reveal how completely clueless you are about market reality. Get your head of your ass, and go talk to some people in the field that may educate you <i>utterly</i> irrelevant fanboys are to this industry.

Fanboys only matter to your business, the controversial pagehit factories. They matter zilch to intel, amd or the industry in general. Nada, niente. As does your opinion btw.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[spud]

Whatever dude, you are just a know-it-all baby. Fanboys come in all forms you just showed me there is yet another version that tries to be more polictically correct.

Very childish attitude you are showing as well since the man has the job and talks to the movers and shakers something you dont do and never ever will.

You cant repect the man and his opinions i think its time for you to move on to noob forums like futuremark since the guys at Aces would laugh you clueless ass out of there.

-Jeremy

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7013108" target="_new">Busting Sh@t Up!!!</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1311896" target="_new">Busting More Sh@t Up!!!</A>

 

[Guest]

>It’s difficult to trust your views, you constantly go with
>the consensus; follow the leader type character, like Omid
>for example. You back up anything he says.

You sure got that right. Look it's simple, both Eden and Omid are teens, I'd be willing to bet a fortune on that. While Omid gets his kicks out of posting controversial (not to say mostly downright idiotic) opinions, Eden sees it has his holy quest to back THG regardless. After all, this forum is his home, his life, and since he doesnt have what it takes for form his own opinion, he'll just quote the company line.

Both Omid and Eden thrive on titles (forum fixture or GM) and think that gives them any authority. They also both share an amazing level of cluelessness when it comes down to technical matters. An interesting phenomena really; its like a couple of die hard football fans that spend half their lives commenting on matches, strategies but that are clueless about how the game actually works. Let alone they would have ever touched a ball themselves...

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[Guest]

Funny that you mention Aces'. Being a long time and regular poster there, I don't recall being laughed really. I do, however, recall being asked to contribute to the site by Johan and Brian, which I occasionally do.

Oh, and you don't know who I "talk to". Or should I say, who talks to me.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[spud]

oh am i supposed to be impressed with you net big man talk... oh im soo sorry how could I have been so fvcking blind... oh ya I remeber your full of [-peep-]... lemme know when you and hector have another bbq ill bring andy with me itll be a gay old time...

-Jeremy

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7013108" target="_new">Busting Sh@t Up!!!</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1311896" target="_new">Busting More Sh@t Up!!!</A>

 

[endyen]

Well my idiot friend, this was intended as a joke. If you are so stupid as to go off the deep end and reply with total ignorance, let me tell you, you are just wrong. When you can come up with any Intel solution chipset, that is as stable as the nforce, I will listen to you.

 

[spud]

8xx series 4xx series...

-Jeremy

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7013108" target="_new">Busting Sh@t Up!!!</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1311896" target="_new">Busting More Sh@t Up!!!</A>

 

[infiltrator]

Post like this are such bull. Who are we as techies to know anything decent about how to run a company like AMD or Intel. If we did, we would most certainly not be hanging around here. I think everyone is so engrossed in either their Intel-leetness or AMD-Fanbooiness that they start to autmatically talk the biggest load of nonsense. This is nothing but a testosterone throwing contest.

I agree that some people take things WAY to serious around here - but hey, this IS after all a forum. Relax ppl. If you like AMD, or Intel - let it be. YOU know what is best - so why bother bursting a bloodvessel to prove your point? If you know you have the best choice, let it be and perhaps you end up having the best/faster/cooler (or whatever you look for in Hardware) and you will be happy. I also can't understand how experienced people that supposedly know so much about stuff (esp some of the experienced veteran posters which think people labeled as 'strangers' are noobs) still feel the need to argue indefinately about stuff they should not even worry about. If the knew that for example Intel (or AMD, or ANYONE for that matter) is FAR better, then why worry about it so much? I can honestly say I cannot really say which is better at the moment as far as sheer performance goes, but I made my deceision on cost/performance ratios.

Different people look at different things, so just do what you thing you need to do and quite posing nonsense like AMD will kill Intel, or AMD is not threat to Intel, cause we all know this is blatant lies.

It's sad that a technical forum like this stoops down into one big spamming war or irrelevant facts that actually contradict the actual purpose of these forums.

 

[endyen]

nope

 

[spud]

lol if you say so... i supose the nforce2 series is even better than the 6xx series too...

-Jeremy

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7013108" target="_new">Busting Sh@t Up!!!</A>
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[eden]

You're a good fight-breaker, I should say. Except for one thing that I do not appreciate:

(esp some of the experienced veteran posters which think people labeled as 'strangers' are noobs

I can't help but feel this is targetted at me. If it is, you are solely wrong in all aspects. I never claimed such nor will I. I gave much respect to a stranger here while for the other I didn't because he barged in here as if he knew how everything goes in here.

I sure as hell hope you are not gonna label that quote again on me. Because if so, go quote me or the person who said such, then we'll talk.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol:

 

[infiltrator]

Firstly, I have noticed there are quite a few people that actually do use the posting frequency to rate people, so it's not specifically aimed at anyone. Secondly - Yes, the abovmentioned 'stranger' was a bit of a John Wayne, and I can see your reasoning. Thirdly, I don't hold grudges against anyone. Lifes to short for stuff like that, I am sure I can learn stuff from anyone in here - so why ruin a perfectly good opportunity to do so. Unfortunately I saw your post and just got me going 😉 no harm meant - soz!

 

[eden]

For years I’ve routed for you (I’ve been coming here for a while), you use to defend AMD quite a bit along side with Matirismo (Forgot his name).

Lol, it's Marisaro, funny guess at it heeheh.

Back in the day, when AMD had a performance edge, you were all over it… now your Intel, because of hyper threading (whatever its called)…

Ok, I'm a man of honor (or will you all interpret that as "the superior being trying to shut noobs down"?!), and I concede to anything I am aware of being wronged.
You are absolutely correct. Then again, back then I wasn't very conscious, I was merely 15-16, and had little personal judgement on things. I realize very well who I was and I could laugh at it now, since it's all past. I didn't like what I established of myself here back then, but it brought me to who I am now and that's all I need. I could talk about myself but I won't, however I now have a much wider view on things and definitely destroy all bias when possible. If you want another great proof here, look at AMD_Man. With his name you'd assume a fanboy, but back when he registered, he was also very young, biased. Now he is one of the most mature members here, albeit not posting much anymore. People change, and I sure hope you all have that conception in you.

but what I find most disturbing is that you're not giving AMD the same token for their technological advances as you would Intel, unless of course everybody changed consensus and along you come in the new camp.

If you're expecting me to kiss AMD's behind I am not gonna. Let me make it clear and obvious, that I DID praise AMD64's performance results. Once again you attest that you did not read my posts here to see. I also have always defended the ODMC. But again, you didn't take note of it. So what else do I need to point out from AMD's technological advances? There ain't much man, they don't innovate that much. Intel made HT, SSE, SSE2, Trace Cache, and so much more. Giving them credit for it has absolutely NO TIE whatsoever to fanboyism or bias. It's being interested in the technologies on the PC. Maybe that's not you, but I expect you to try to relate or respect that.

It’s difficult to trust your views, you constantly go with the consensus; follow the leader type character, like Omid for example. You back up anything he says.

You have people who will say "I agree", and shut up. But I back up my agreement with why. Ok, so I happen to agree with Omid, who's view is shared with some here. So why should that make me any worse than you guys arguing THG is biased to Intel? Lest we forget, each time the AthlonXP was dominating, THG was labeled AMD biased with the comments like "AMD is miles ahead", whereas when Intel dominated by a little, it would be "Intel is a microbe's nose ahead!'.
I have voiced my disagreement to Omid once already, since it is obvious no one shares entirely the same views as others. In my opinion it surprises me you people can't see his point that AMD's management is driven by monkeys as Slvr_Phoenix puts it. And stop always defending them by saying stuff like "Oh yeah I suppose you could". Well, right about now, no one knows, but I sure as hell am conscious enough to realize that if for 5 years they didn't generate profits, well that means they got a crappy management, no matter how bad you defend and how bad you ask us.

You trump the horns with Intel’s new tech, but what about 64 BIT? – HP wasn’t shown to be effective at all time, yet I think you know with industry support 64 bit could have a bigger impact, yet you stay clear from that. Why?

Well, I've shown above everything I need to show proving this not being the case. I will continue to appreciate whatever new innovative technology comes out, but just because Intel did more and I liked their innovative technologies, doesn't make me anti-AMD. That's paranoia, and it's past us here.

I won't bother with Bbayens' post, his ego is as big as mine right now, and I'd rather not even try to boost mine any further to make a hypocrite of myself trying to correct him. Let's just settle and agree to disagree, shall we?


Matirisimo, LOL! So artistic. :lol:

Ahh damn I miss the guy though, he was a prime debater.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol:

 

[eden]

No problems man, it's all good!

I admit sometimes I do that, despite trying not to. I can't help but sometimes see some newcomers coming in and I feel SOME like to think they know everyone. I can't quite explain it well, but it has to do with some insulting others' intelligence when they don't know them. I think I'll go roast the newb that ever comes in and insults Crashman, seriously. I don't agree with everything he says, but I'll be damned if he hasn't gotten some major respect in this forum, with his longevity here, dedication to the forum and constant helping. He's an example I could give towards using his veteran status in cases where people try to insult his intelligence out of nowhere, when they just came into the forum.

I apologize if I made it sound harsh, and I respect people who try to reason both ways. I can't however respect people who label others or have opinions with no reasoning behind it. Ya know the "IT SUCKS" kind of comment? Ain't no respecting that. But that's just me and my convictions really.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol:

 

[endyen]

Sure, on an intel board those chipsets are super stable with some notable excetions, but put them on a board where you can oc, and they are not quite so good.

 

[Ncogneto]

What about the i815 ? The 815 was a pretty good chipset, that supported a nice amount of features, and was using SDRAM.

What about it? Intel never intended to release it. Only after a huge outcry from its consumers did it grudgingly release it. And yes it was a good chipset, I owned one, and still do.

So there is no "Intel forced RDRAM down our throat" while "Poor AMD asks you to wait a little while".

Get real. There was exactly that and to deny it is simply pure BS. And you have the nerve to accuse me of being a fan boy. My, what a short memory you have.

point regarding the ECC-RAM

What point?

(why people didn't say the same thing with regard to RDRAM pricing speak volume about said people's objectivity).

Read my explanation as why I beleive ECC will become more common as computers with more than 1 gig of memory start to be standard.

Yeah, and I can either look at it in its shiny box if I don't want to invest on a server-level platform.

Point is you can still buy it at launch. Despite all your complaints this negates any argument about it being a paper launch...period! Stopg gap yes, paper launch no.

It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!