Intel FSB vs AMD FSB, i'm confused

[jflongo]

basically it's a simple question that confuses me.

Intel now has a 533 FSB, AMD currently is at 266, soon to be 333. It looks like DDR400 in an Intel Board at 533 and 400, SMOKES AMD in memory performance. This was from a recent Tom's post.

Is this an Apple to Apple comparison? That is are the FSB speeds equal to each other as far as pipe size goes. The reason I ask, is because there is a HUGE gap difference, currently Intel has 533 and AMD is at 266. That is DOUBLE. Why is AMD so far behind here. They are always competative in processor speed and I like them because of price, but they are way way way behind in FSB. This I believe kills them when it comes to memory performance.

So i'm curious will a AMD 333 FSB compare with a Intel 400 or 533, or are they apple to apple. So AMD needs a 533 fsb to compete with Intel's?

<i> If you buy a pre-packaged pc, shame on you </i>

 

[nja469]

Current AXP's will most likely not offer much more performance with a FSB increase without a tweaked processor core (maybe the barton) and memory chipsets that actually are worth a damn (maybe nforce2).

Deep down, underneath it all, both chips run on a 133 FSB. Pentium 4's simply quad pump the data rate (QDR) effectively a 533 FSB. Athlons on the other hand double the data rate (DDR) and effectively call it a 266 FSB. Even when AMD finally goes to 166FSB (333 DDR) intel won't be more than a quarter behind with its own 166 FSB (667 QDR) - still leaving intel with an effectively double mem bandwidth.

"Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one"

 

[chuck232]

Actually the 166MHz FSB for the AXP will help out quite a bit. I've seen it give ~5% or more, while not being a great amount, it's not bad considering it's only really a minor change.

<i>Past mistakes may make you look stupid, but avoiding future ones will make you look smart!</i>

 

[lhgpoobaa]

apples to apples?
no.

despite what people say, intel does NOT have a 400mhz fsb... nor a 533mhz fsb. and amd doesnt have a 200 or 266 either.
they both have just 100 or 133mhz system bus speeds.
AMD systems are setup to transfer data twice every clock cycle, and intel P4 systems 4 times every clock cycle.

and you still cant compare them and say "intels is twice as good cauz it can transfer twice as much".

the two CPU's and corresponding chipsets vary greatly in design. AMD has gone for the high IPS route, with rounded ALU/FPU performance at a lower speed (but with a high heat output), while intel has gone with a lower IPS design, not as good FPU, different L1 cache design and deep pipeline to achieve insanely high Mhz. The P4 design also means that to get optimal performance a high memory bandwidth is required.
an increase in memory bandwidth also would help with the XP cpu, but nowhere near as much as with the P4.

<b>Due to Customer Complaints this sig has been withdrawn from public use. Thankyou. :lol: </b>

 

[jflongo]

One of the reasons I ask is...look at this...

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q3/020826/p4_2800-16.html

AMD gets destroyed when it came to comparing DDR333 with Intel. Basically Intel scored 2615,6139 VS AMD at 2000,3711.

I believe this is the 533 vs 266 FSB.

I love AMD, I think their processors run at a great speed, and I think they rock because of price. I own a XP 1600+ and love it, that along with PC2400 DDR CAS2, it runs great. Problem is, my wife wants a new pc soon, so i've had my for about 9 months now, so i'll probably give her mine, and build a new one in the next couple of months.

Now in a couple of months the Intel 2.26 and 2.4 Ghz with 533 fsb should be alot cheaper. I really want to go with AMD and the 333 FSB, but the memory bench marks are starting to push me towards Intel 🙁 I'm looking forward to seeing AMD with a 333 FSB and see what that offers.

<i> If you buy a pre-packaged pc, shame on you </i>

 

[lhgpoobaa]

hahaha
i wouldnt base buying a cpu on something like sandra or pcmark SYNTHETIC memory benchmarks!
they are highly missleading.
YES the P4 is better with DDR 333 and rdram, but not terribly so... real world apps show the p4 is better, but not by huge amounts.

by all means get a p4 if your going to do lots of multimedia editing and stuff, but dont expect 2x performance.

<b>Due to Customer Complaints this sig has been withdrawn from public use. Thankyou. :lol: </b>

 

[Ironstone]

I sympathise with your dilemma. I'm going through the same process - passing on my Athlon 1.2 and building something allegedly "better".

It's confusing enough working out exactly what all the differing hardware standards mean in practice (rather than theory) but the real test doesn't come until you run something. It gets VERY complex trying to track down exactly what aspects of which software make what demands on which component (or combinations) and when. :-(

The perfect machine for one task might be mediocre for another... Do I maximise spending money on RAM, CPU speed or..??? What's money well spent versus wasted overkill etc,etc.

Ploughing through all the current benchtest comparisons on sites like this one are helpful, but to a fairly limited degree as they usually only simulate a rough compromise rather than a specific "high end" task load.

I've noticed that the tests currently around on many net sites mostly show only very small differences between different FSB speeds, latest board/chip/RAM combination etc. using general test utilities that simulate a bundle of busines or games type situations.

Once a year I read all this stuff - pick out any obvious dogs to avoid - and then throw up my hands and buy what seems to be the fastest stuff my wallet can afford! Crude, but so far always effective. 🙂

 

[jflongo]

I agree with the bunchmark stuff. In general AMD is MORE than fine for me. I've done java development on my machine, editing pictures with Photoshop, and Video Editing with Pinnacle. All these run great on my machine.

Basically when I decide to build in the next couple of months, if doing a 2.24 Intel is only $50 more than doing a 2200+ from AMD, then i'll do Intel. But more than likely as always, it will probably be $100 more, so i'll stay with AMD ;-)

<i> If you buy a pre-packaged pc, shame on you </i>

 

[zeno]

I too am in the middle of buying a computer. I am, howevever, coming from a different side. My current systems are mainly PII's, bought when they were top dog, and runing OpenBSD or Linux frequently. Quite frankly, I thought the K6 was crap, and I avoided AMD at all costs.

In looking at the newer systems, I immediately went to jump on the Intel bandwagon again.. 512k cache, and quad piped 133MHz fsb? Count me in! Then I made a startling discovery... $300+ difference in price, and a fairly small performance advantage... AND the AXP compiles faster than the p4!

Motherboard, Processor, AND memory are signifigantly more expensive. Athlon XP's are 1.5-2x the processing power for the buck. I think I'll throw that $300+ I save in the jar for my next upgrade...

Say, what version of DOS is on this sparc thingie?

 

[chuck232]

Basically when I decide to build in the next couple of months, if doing a 2.24 Intel is only $50 more than doing a 2200+ from AMD, then i'll do Intel. But more than likely as always, it will probably be $100 more, so i'll stay with AMD ;-)

I don't think AMD CPUs prices have much to fall from their ~$150 for the XP2200+. Intel's pricing for their P4 2.26B will be $193 very soon, therefore, being about $50 more. Now mind you, usually Intel mobos are more expensive than AMD mobos though.

<i>Past mistakes may make you look stupid, but avoiding future ones will make you look smart!</i>

 

[tilepusher]

Hey J,

I think you are missing the big picture. First if you absolutely have to have the fastest everything, regardless of cost, yes the Intel P4 2.8 & RD-Ram PC1066 are kings. IMHO, the only real bench mark is 3D Marks, which is a Video bench mark. I don't care about shaving seconds off a business or multi-media program.

What I am trying to say is, The CPU is not the biggest bottleneck in a high end computer system. If you want to spend your money on something every year as technology advances, get the fastest video card.

As far as your so called "HUGE gap", it is just a number that really doesn't reflect overall system speed/power.

As far as "Why is AMD so far behind?", why don't you ask anybody with a Mac, why is your Motorola such a Slug? The real answer is all the cpu makers have different angles on what will give you the "Best" cpu performance.......keeping in mind that their cpu has to work with the current memory & chipset limitations and make a profit for the shareholders.

Keep watching the net & reviews, and decide for yourself: what are the most important benchmarks & how they apply to the stuff you use your computer for..........and ask yourself: Is this going to be the last computer that I ever have? If you are a Geek like me, the money I save today, I can use in six months to buy a whole new system.........so what are a few seconds today, in six months I will be able to beat that benchmark by minutes for less money.

What will it be, take the Red Pill or the Blue Pill?

Peace Out..................tile

god knows your entire system setup & he would answer your questions if he could just stop laughing

 

[jflongo]

I'm not missing the big pictures, was just trying to understand it a little ;-)

I think for everything I do, AMD rocks, since it flies and is cheaper. I have friends that are doing 3DModeling that need the extra little boost from memory and SSE2 so they are forced to go with Intel soon, unless AMD decides to support SSE2 in the Tbred soon.

"If you are a Geek like me, the money I save today, I can use in six months to buy a whole new system"

I agree with that quite abit, i kind of adopt that reasoning. I like to stay under $1K when building a machine. I tend to get about the 3rd or 4th fastest processor, since they are way way cheaper and still real fast. When AMD came out with their XP line, I bought a 1600+ when they had 1900+ out. I am still very happy with the performance. I also snagged a Radeon 7500 at the time, since I could get that for about $100 and do dual monitor. I'm still happy with that as well. I was able to keep my last machine under $1K including buying a second monitor.

The next time I will upgrade is when I can snag a 2600+ for about $150, and the ATI 9700 Pro for about $299 - $329. I may even hold out a little longer to throw in a DVD Burner for about $250. I have seen that there may be changes in the DVD Burner plans from a few manufactures to support ALOT more storage, so I may just build in a couple of months and buy a DVD burner next year.

I'm starting to see DDR400 CAS2 chips hitting the market now. I'm very interested to see Tom put out benchmarks, not too far in the future ,to see how the new KT400 Mobos with DDR400 support and AGP8 support do.

<i> If you buy a pre-packaged pc, shame on you </i>

 

[C0rn_Flex]

I'm starting to see DDR400 CAS2 chips hitting the market now. I'm very interested to see Tom put out benchmarks, not too far in the future ,to see how the new KT400 Mobos with DDR400 support and AGP8 support do.

Me too, though, from the comments I read, more than DDR333 is a waste, and AGP X8 is nothing, I want to see benchmarks!

--------------------
"I wanna talk tonight
Until the mornin' light"

 

[tilepusher]

Hey J,

Cool.

Keep waiting. The Hammers & XP Bartons(512 kb L2 cache) are coming. I do not think Intel will sit around doing nothing either. The future looks bright!

About DDR 400, don't worry about it unless you are using a P4. The Athlon's can barely take advantage of the higher bandwidth of DDR 333. The same goes for 8X AGP, it seems most video cards cannot fully take advantage of 4X AGP yet, so it might take a year or so to see a real advantage of getting a faster 8X video card. Although, I might just have to get a ATi Radeon 9700 when it hits the stores.

My take on computers: Keep a open mind, understand your own needs, research as much as you can, buy everything at the same time & be happy with your choice, because it was the best decision that you could make with the information that you had at the time. Good Luck

Peace Out.....................tile

god knows your entire system setup & he would answer your questions if he could just stop laughing