Question Intel I9-13900K cooling

[calibek]

OK so I am looking into custom building a PC and I wanted to use the Intel I9-13900K chip. Now I read it can get hot and I plan on having a rather large case with 6 fans (3/2 up front, 2/3 on top, and one in back). Now for the processer I wanted to use an air cooler because I am just the type I really don't want to fuss with liquid cooling. I was looking at the Cooler Master MA410M. Would this and the fans be enough to cool the CPU? I don't plan on using this for super high-end gaming or overclocking. This is both my gaming and work computer and I plan on doing mid-size gaming on it, maybe Baldur Gate 3 or running Total War: Warhammer 3 on max setting but other than that it won't be going much further.

Thoughts on if this would be sufficient?

 

[TerryLaze]

I was looking at the Cooler Master MA410M. Would this and the fans be enough to cool the CPU? I don't plan on using this for super high-end gaming or overclocking.

That will depend on the mobo you use since some mobos wil heavily overclock your CPU with way too much power and voltage.
If you go into the bios and set up everything by hand then it will be enough.

 

[calibek]

That will depend on the mobo you use since some mobos wil heavily overclock your CPU with way too much power and voltage.
If you go into the bios and set up everything by hand then it will be enough.

I planned on getting a Corsair 4000D Series Airflow ATX MidTower and a Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX

 

[calibek]

Are liquid coolers difficult to maintain? I have always been worried that the coolers would bust and would damage the insides of the system. I'm not sure if that tradeoff is worth a few degrees of cooling.

 

[Phaaze88]

This tells you more about the chip's behavior, including what TerryLaze mentions about what some of the motherboards will do:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNFgswzTvyc


Or maybe consider settling for the non-K variant. "These are generally better binned for higher clock speeds at low power. Your unlocked chips are actually the rejects that are very leaky, this means they can clock high, but at the expense of power/temperature."
Perhaps consider combining the above with a B760 or H770 series board.

It's probably safe to assume that most Z-series boards' defaults don't follow Intel spec.

Are liquid coolers difficult to maintain? I have always been worried that the coolers would bust and would damage the insides of the system. I'm not sure if that tradeoff is worth a few degrees of cooling.

No. They are meant to be the maintenance-free version of a custom loop, sans the occasional dusting. Once the pumps break, they're pretty much e-waste.
They don't bust easily unless you straight up manhandle them.

 

[Lafong]

Are liquid coolers difficult to maintain? I have always been worried that the coolers would bust and would damage the insides of the system. I'm not sure if that tradeoff is worth a few degrees of cooling.

It isn't so much that it's difficult.....but it is something you have to monitor. Just as it would be in a liquid cooled automobile engine. It's something that can and eventually will fail. That failure wouldn't necessarily involve leakage.

You can detune the 13900K to reduce heat output or you can decide that your temps are acceptable or you can allow CPU throttling.

Or maybe look at 13700K or 14700K.

 

[geofelt]

13900k runs hot when all threads are in use.
Normally for games and such only a few cores are heavily used and heat does not build up.
Unless you are a competitive overclocker, you need not worry.
It is true, that better coolers will let you perform better, but not by all that much.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNFgswzTvyc
It takes a 360 size liquid cooler to beat a top air cooler.

Your case is a good one for air cooling.
I would mount two 140mm front intakes and a single 120mm exhaust.
That is similar to my setup which works just fine.
If I run the cpu-Z stress test, only a few of the cores reach 100c.
At that point, they throttle for a moment but keep on running.
I use a Noctua NH-D15s which is efficient and quiet. No RGB "bling"though.
Noctua maintains a list of suitable air coolers.
Here is the list for a 13900K:

INTEL Core i9-13900K | CPU Compatibility | Noctua Compatibility Centre

Series: Raptor Lake-S, Socket: LGA1700

ncc.noctua.at

Since the 14900K was released, I would look at that. It sells for a bit more than a 13900K but is perhaps 10% more capable.

liquid coolers are not hard to maintain. In fact, you can't.
In time the pump, being a mechanical device will fail or accumulate debris. Or, air will enter the tubes and the whole unit must be replaced.
Consider an aio as a rental for 5 years.

 

[Order 66]

Modern CPUs including the 13900k are designed to boost until they hit 100C. The only way that you will get them to have reasonable temps at stock settings or overclocking is with something like LN2. Otherwise, good luck because the CPU will reach 100C on even the best liquid coolers eventually.

 

[calibek]

OK So full disclosure I am having this PC made. I was going to build it myself but I did that years ago and right now I don't have the time to build my own PC in a reasonable time frame with work and personal issues plus the difference of me building it and someone else is not enough to warrant the stress. I am an IT person by trade but have mostly been in the server and software side of things for a decade so haven't been up to date on hardware. Anyways here is what I was looking at as far as the CPU and how it will interact with other items.

CAS: Phanteks Evolv X GLASS E-ATX Mid-Tower Gaming Case, Swing Tempered Glass Panel Window + 3x Case Fans [+193] (Matte White)

CPU: Intel® Core™ Processor i9-13900K 8P/16 + 16E 3.00GHz [Turbo 5.7GHz] 36MB Cache LGA1700 [+30]

CS_FAN: 6X 120mm Corsair iCUE SP120 RGB ELITE Performance 120mm PWM Fan with Lighting Node CORE [+125]

FAN: Cooler Master MasterAir MA410M High RGB Performance CPU Cooler with 4 Heat Pipes, Push-Pull Dual PWM Fans [+23]

HDD: 1TB WD Blue SN580 Series (PCIe Gen4) NVMe M.2 SSD - Seq R/W: Up to 4150/4150 MB/s, Rnd R/W up to 600/750k (Dual Drive (1TB x 2 (2TB Capacity)) [+45])

MEMORY: 32GB (16GBx2) DDR5/6000MHz Dual Channel Memory [+75] (Team T-FORCE DELTA RGB)

MOTHERBOARD: ASUS ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI DDR5 ATX w/ Wi-Fi 6E, 2.5GbT LAN, (3)PCIe x16,(1)PCIe x1, (4)M.2, (6)SATA [+296]

NETWORK: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network

OS: Windows 11 Pro [+31]

POWERSUPPLY: 1000 Watts - Corsair RM1000x SHIFT 80 PLUS Gold ATX 3.0 Fully Modular w/ PCIE 12+4Pins Connector for PCIe 5.0 graphics cards [+133]

SOUND: ASUS Xonar SE 5.1 Channel 192kHz/24-bit Hi-Res 116dB SNR PCIe Gaming Sound Card [+47]

VIDEO: AMD Radeon™ RX 7900 XTX 24GB GDDR6 Video Card [+528] (Single Card)

Any opinions?

 

[Phaaze88]

OK So full disclosure I am having this PC made. I was going to build it myself but I did that years ago and right now I don't have the time to build my own PC in a reasonable time frame with work and personal issues plus the difference of me building it and someone else is not enough to warrant the stress. I am an IT person by trade but have mostly been in the server and software side of things for a decade so haven't been up to date on hardware. Anyways here is what I was looking at as far as the CPU and how it will interact with other items.

CAS: Phanteks Evolv X GLASS E-ATX Mid-Tower Gaming Case, Swing Tempered Glass Panel Window + 3x Case Fans [+193] (Matte White)

CPU: Intel® Core™ Processor i9-13900K 8P/16 + 16E 3.00GHz [Turbo 5.7GHz] 36MB Cache LGA1700 [+30]

CS_FAN: 6X 120mm Corsair iCUE SP120 RGB ELITE Performance 120mm PWM Fan with Lighting Node CORE [+125]

FAN: Cooler Master MasterAir MA410M High RGB Performance CPU Cooler with 4 Heat Pipes, Push-Pull Dual PWM Fans [+23]

HDD: 1TB WD Blue SN580 Series (PCIe Gen4) NVMe M.2 SSD - Seq R/W: Up to 4150/4150 MB/s, Rnd R/W up to 600/750k (Dual Drive (1TB x 2 (2TB Capacity)) [+45])

MEMORY: 32GB (16GBx2) DDR5/6000MHz Dual Channel Memory [+75] (Team T-FORCE DELTA RGB)

MOTHERBOARD: ASUS ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI DDR5 ATX w/ Wi-Fi 6E, 2.5GbT LAN, (3)PCIe x16,(1)PCIe x1, (4)M.2, (6)SATA [+296]

NETWORK: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network

OS: Windows 11 Pro [+31]

POWERSUPPLY: 1000 Watts - Corsair RM1000x SHIFT 80 PLUS Gold ATX 3.0 Fully Modular w/ PCIE 12+4Pins Connector for PCIe 5.0 graphics cards [+133]

SOUND: ASUS Xonar SE 5.1 Channel 192kHz/24-bit Hi-Res 116dB SNR PCIe Gaming Sound Card [+47]

VIDEO: AMD Radeon™ RX 7900 XTX 24GB GDDR6 Video Card [+528] (Single Card)

Any opinions?

Completely understandable reasons.

IMO, that build is totally fine at face value, but(of course):
-I don't think that sound card is worth the expense compared to onboard audio, which has come a long way to what it was 20 years ago.
-If there really is no OC plans, the value of the K cpu and Z board just dropped off a cliff.
^Again, that's just my opinion.

 

[Order 66]

Completely understandable reasons.

IMO, that build is totally fine at face value, but(of course):
-I don't think that sound card is worth the expense compared to onboard audio, which has come a long way to what it was 20 years ago.
-If there really is no OC plans, the value of the K cpu and Z board just dropped off a cliff.
^Again, that's just my opinion.

I agree if you aren't planning on overclocking, you don't need a K series CPU or a Z mobo. However, you could always do it anyway so that the option is there. The one advantage of a K series CPU if not overclocking is higher base and boost clocks.

 

[thestryker]

The Z series boards have better IO if that's of any concern otherwise I agree with the above you can save money and get almost identical performance.

As for the cooler it's definitely not going to be sufficient under maximum workload even at Intel stock settings. So if that's something you think you'll be doing the investment in a better cooler would be wise (you don't have to jump to CLC/Water, but a dual tower air cooler would be good).

I've always had a sound card in my system and honestly these days the only thing that's likely to get you anything noticeable is external (I use a SB X4). It's not that sound cards are bad by any stretch there just isn't the chasm that used to exist.

 

[calibek]

Ok so I am going through CyberPowePC to get my system. As far as the chip I have always been an Intel guy and I want to try and future proof if possible (I know, no such thing) but would an I9 be overkill or would it be a good idea?

Also as far as GPU I was reading that Radeon and GeForce are kind of neck and neck. I went with Radeon 7900 XTX over the GeForce 4900 because the 4900 is expensive. Is Radeon good or would I be better served saving another $100 give or take and getting a GeForce 4700 TI?

As far as MB I was worried so I opted fir a Gaming Board but if I don't need something like then then would the board below be fine?

This is what I was planning to get
ASUS ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI DDR5 ATX w/ Wi-Fi 6E, 2.5GbT LAN, (3)PCIe x16,(1)PCIe x1, (4)M.2, (6)SATA

This would be a cheaper option by $300.
ASUS PRIME Z790-P WIFI D5 DDR5 ATX w/ Wi-Fi 6, 2.5GbT LAN, (4)PCIe x16,(1)PCIe x1, (3)M.2, (4)SATA

Right now this rig is for work and medium gaming. Honestly my Steam Library's most intesive game at the moment may be Total War: Warhammer 3. I also plan on playing Pathfinder: Wrath I'd the Righteous, Age of Wonder 4, Wildermyth, and maybe get Baldur Gate 3 in the future.

I don't do FPS's or competitive gaming. I don't do MMO's anymore (may get back into WoW with friends). This is for maybe some Steam RPG's and work. I wanted to go higher end because games will eventually come out that need more resources and i have always been the type that I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. That being said if I can save some money in certain places because it would be heavy overkill by all means let me know.

I would prefer to keep the case and fans though as I like colors in my computer system.

 

[Lafong]

From Cyberpower and within your budget:

What choices do you have for a CPU cooler?

Do you have any CPU choices from Intel's 14th generation?

 

[Phaaze88]

would an I9 be overkill or would it be a good idea?

Overkill for only games.

Also as far as GPU I was reading that Radeon and GeForce are kind of neck and neck. I went with Radeon 7900 XTX over the GeForce 4900 because the 4900 is expensive. Is Radeon good or would I be better served saving another $100 give or take and getting a GeForce 4700 TI?

Neck and neck if one only looks at rasterization. Add anything after gaming and streaming, and things heavily lean in Nvidia's favor.
It also depends on what YOU play. Some game engines are going to favor Radeon, others Geforce.

As far as MB I was worried so I opted fir a Gaming Board but if I don't need something like then then would the board below be fine?

This is what I was planning to get
ASUS ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI DDR5 ATX w/ Wi-Fi 6E, 2.5GbT LAN, (3)PCIe x16,(1)PCIe x1, (4)M.2, (6)SATA

This would be a cheaper option by $300.
ASUS PRIME Z790-P WIFI D5 DDR5 ATX w/ Wi-Fi 6, 2.5GbT LAN, (4)PCIe x16,(1)PCIe x1, (3)M.2, (4)SATA

Unfortunately, motherboards are a personal choice. You need to know what features, or 'how many/much of this or that' you want out of one, which isn't limited to 'this board has better VRM than that one', one of 2 things I've noticed that mobo selection often concludes with - the other being price, because bigger price = more better. /S

 

[calibek]

From Cyberpower and within your budget:

What choices do you have for a CPU cooler?

Do you have any CPU choices from Intel's 14th generation?

Air coolers are limited. The Cooler Master is the more expensive of them. I prefer not to do liquid cooling.

It looks like all the CPU fir 14 Gen are available.

Overkill for only games.


Neck and neck if one only looks at rasterization. Add anything after gaming and streaming, and things heavily lean in Nvidia's favor.
It also depends on what YOU play. Some game engines are going to favor Radeon, others Geforce.


Unfortunately, motherboards are a personal choice. You need to know what features, or 'how many/much of this or that' you want out of one, which isn't limited to 'this board has better VRM than that one', one of 2 things I've noticed that mobo selection often concludes with - the other being price, because bigger price = more better. /S

So then I9 is a but much for gaming? If it is then what would be the major use case for an I9? It isn't that I doubt you I am just curious.

Honestly this will be for work and gaming. Most this thing will be used for outside of games is minor programing, RDP/VMWare/VPN into servers for maintaining and working on things, documentation/spreadsheets, and Teams stuff. A lot of the main work i do is done on a Virtual Machine with access to numerous pieces of software. I don't plan on using it for streaming games I play, I'm not into video editing or anything really like that, and I do not do competitive gaming and if I did do anything like that (I'll play Overwatch 2) I tend to use my PS5 because I have it attached to my 75" TV in my den. With this said does that me that Radeon would be a more cost effective solution? I like Nvidia but the 4900 is so expensive.

So then the Z790 Gaming Board would probably be the better Mobo to purchase? I am not sure i really need much from it short of sound if i decide against a sound card. Also I need it for an ethernet connection. Short of that what is standard I would assume would be good. That being said though i would prefer to plan ahead.

 

[thestryker]

Right now the biggest difference between nvidia and AMD with regards to which card to buy is whether or not you care about the software technologies. If you plan on using upscaling a lot then nvidia is a pretty clear winner here, and the same can be said for ray tracing as well. Frame generation is also a thing to potentially keep in mind as nvidia's implementation is superior (at least for now AMD's just launched), but this feature is extremely subjective. AMD gives you more perf/$ and the additional VRAM will be beneficial depending on the resolution, texture detail etc that you plan on utilizing.

So then I9 is a but much for gaming? If it is then what would be the major use case for an I9? It isn't that I doubt you I am just curious.

The i9 is absolutely the best desktop CPU Intel sells performance wise, but that's more due to clockspeeds, binning and turbo options that it has which the others do not. If Intel sold an i5 with the same features it'd be equal to the i9 when it comes to lighter tasks and this is something you can generally do with manually tweaking your system. The core configuration is overkill for anyone who isn't utilizing all core workloads on a fairly regular basis.

Air coolers are limited. The Cooler Master is the more expensive of them. I prefer not to do liquid cooling.

They have very poor choices when it comes to cooling unless you go with custom/CLC liquid from the looks of it. Their AMD systems don't have an air cooler option at all. Personally speaking there's no way I'd buy a system with a CPU that can pull 253W in stock configuration and only have a single tower air cooler. If you're dead set against any form of liquid cooling and don't want to do anything yourself then buy an i5-14600K based system.

 

[SyCoREAPER]

For taking a 13700 will perform perfectly and be cooler than a 13900 with no perceivable losses. You can even overclock it close to a 13900 and run cooler.

The 13900 is an oven that realistically needs a 420mm AIO which not many cases support. With a 360 you will be looking over your shoulder at temperatures constantly. The i9 is useful if you do editing and encoding, not so big a difference for gaming.

Save yourself some money, get a 13700 and a good 360mm AIO like one from Corsair or NZXT.

14th gen is a waste of money IMO even if it's priced the same as the 13th gen. From what I've seen they just eat more power, give more heat and are a negligible performance uplift in gaming. Maybe they will release a second revision (a refresh of the refresh) for the 14th gen.

 

[Phaaze88]

So then I9 is a but much for gaming? If it is then what would be the major use case for an I9? It isn't that I doubt you I am just curious.

Trying to top overclocking records... until the next gen i9 comes out. Rinse and repeat.
Maximum performance, no matter the cost or quirks that come with it.

With this said does that me that Radeon would be a more cost effective solution? I like Nvidia but the 4900 is so expensive.

Yes.
You might find it hard to believe, but unlike previous gpu gens where the value worsened at the top of the stack, with the 40 series, the 4090 is the most cost effective of the stack, despite the upfront cost. Quite possibly done on purpose, as the gpu has no competition up there, and higher product tiers have larger profit margins behind them.
They'll be harder to come across as the dies are being used in the more profitable AI segments.

So then the Z790 Gaming Board would probably be the better Mobo to purchase? I am not sure i really need much from it short of sound ufni decide against a sound card. Also I need it for an ethernet connection. Short of that what is standard I would assume would be good. That being said thoughxi would prefer to plan ahead.

Maybe? IDK. What you need/want from a board will vary from others. Sorry if not being of much help on this.
You need wifi(I think ufni was a typo).
Got enough usb ports for all your peripherals?
Got enough fan/hybrid pump headers?
Got enough, or maybe too many, M.2/PCI/PCIe slots?
Want bluetooth?
Want a Q-code display?
Want dual bios?
Every little thing tacked on adds up.

 

[calibek]

Ok so I am going to get the Gaming motherboard. I know jt has been thrown around a few times but not sure if I should get 13 gen or 14 gen.

Also still on the fence about Radeon 7900 and GeForce 4070 TI. Not sure how important the excess stuff is. I read reviews and they are both in the same boat. Given the games I mentioned in earlier posts do you think the 4070 TI would be more beneficial than the Radeon?

 

[Phaaze88]

Ok so I am going to get the Gaming motherboard. I know jt has been thrown around a few times but not sure if I should get 13 gen or 14 gen.

Also still on the fence about Radeon 7900 and GeForce 4070 TI. Not sure how important the excess stuff is. I read reviews and they are both in the same boat. Given the games I mentioned in earlier posts do you think the 4070 TI would be more beneficial than the Radeon?

IMO, 14th gen, if the pricing is similar to a 13th.
14th gen is newer, and should be more power efficient - slightly - but mobo vendors are being a-hats, and Intel isn't really doing anything about it.


For me, DIYPC is a hobby. The features and software each side offers don't matter that much to me, so I look at the cost and the performance a product offers and make a judgement from there. [Unfortunately, reviewers don't cover the titles I play, which sucks, 'cause I have to make more of a guess, but oh well.]
Fortunately, none of the software you use mandates the use of Nvidia CUDA. If any of them did, you'd be automatically pigeonholed into Team Green.


Those games are now. What about later releases(this is going to require a crystal ball)?

 

[Order 66]

Another thing with Intel's recent high-end CPUs is power consumption. the i9 13900k consumes more power than some GPUs if cooled well enough.

 

[calibek]

IMO, 14th gen, if the pricing is similar to a 13th.
14th gen is newer, and should be more power efficient - slightly - but mobo vendors are being a-hats, and Intel isn't really doing anything about it.


For me, DIYPC is a hobby. The features and software each side offers don't matter that much to me, so I look at the cost and the performance a product offers and make a judgement from there. [Unfortunately, reviewers don't cover the titles I play, which sucks, 'cause I have to make more of a guess, but oh well.]
Fortunately, none of the software you use mandates the use of Nvidia CUDA. If any of them did, you'd be automatically pigeonholed into Team Green.


Those games are now. What about later releases(this is going to require a crystal ball)?

Yeah after looking at reviews and such I decided to go I7 14 Gen with Integrated Graphics (just in case something happens) with the Z790 Gaming Board.

Also I talked to a few people I know and have decided to give AIO cooling a shot. This is what I am thinking.
CORSAIR iCUE H150i ELITE LCD XT Liquid CPU Cooler - IPS LCD Screen 360mm Radiator - AF120 RGB ELITE

The last hurdle is that GPU. NVIDIA 4090 is too expensive. I am already decently above what I wanted to spend. Even the NVIDIA 4080 is $300 more than AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX. The next best thing would be NVIDIA 4070 TI and from what I am reading and watching it seems that the 7900 XTX outperforms it.

As far as games I really don't see there being anything coming to PC that I am super excited about that I can't already get on my PS5 or XBOX.

 

[thestryker]

The last hurdle is that GPU. NVIDIA 4090 is too expensive. I am already decently above what I wanted to spend. Even the NVIDIA 4080 is $300 more than AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX. The next best thing would be NVIDIA 4070 TI and from what I am reading and watching it seems that the 7900 XTX outperforms it.

Here's the way I'd approach it: Check all the software you use and find out if any is specifically optimized for nvidia (this is sadly somewhat common due to CUDA and general market prevalence). Then decide how much you care about ray tracing as this is one place where nvidia completely outclasses AMD. So long as you're clear on the former and the latter isn't a key sticking point AMD is a much better buy.

 

[calibek]

OK so taking into consideration what everyone said (BTW thank you all for your help) here is what the build is looking like.

CAS: APEVIA DESTINY-MESH ATX Mid-Tower Gaming Case, High Airflow w/ Swing Tempered Glass Panel Window + 4x 120mm ARGB Fans [+4] (Black Color [+0])

CPU: Intel® Core™ Processor i7-14700K 8P/16 + 12E 3.40GHz [Turbo 5.6GHz] 33MB Cache LGA1700 [-30]

CS_FAN: Default case fans

FAN: CORSAIR iCUE H100i ELITE LCD XT Liquid CPU Cooler - IPS LCD Screen 240mm Radiator - AF120 RGB ELITE Fans [+213]

HDD: 1TB WD Blue SN580 Series (PCIe Gen4) NVMe M.2 SSD - Seq R/W: Up to 4150/4150 MB/s, Rnd R/W up to 600/750k (Dual Drive (1TB x 2 (2TB Capacity)) [+45])

MEMORY: 32GB (16GBx2) DDR5/6000MHz Dual Channel Memory (Team T-FORCE DELTA RGB)

MOTHERBOARD: ASUS ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI DDR5 ATX w/ Wi-Fi 6E, 2.5GbT LAN, (3)PCIe x16,(1)PCIe x1, (4)M.2, (6)SATA [+296]

NETWORK: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network

OS: Windows 11 Pro [+31]

POWERSUPPLY: 1,000 Watts - EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 GT 80 Plus Gold Fully Modular Power Supply [+36]

SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO

VIDEO: AMD Radeon™ RX 7900 XTX 24GB GDDR6 Video Card [+119] (Single Card)

How does this version look?