Intel P43 vs P45 chipset

[Gintok]

Greetings, seeking knowledge and a bit of banter and opinion so bare with me.

If you have a P43 board vs a P45 board, both have DDR2 support, a single PCIe x16 slot, maximum supported memory of 8GB, how much more would you pay for the P45 board?. I believe the only difference is Hardware Virtualization. Keep in mind both boards are from the same manufacturer and offer a similar amount of SATA, PATA and USB.

Perhaps rephrasing the question I could ask: If the only difference is the Hardware Virtualization, is it worth it, and by how much?

Second question. Friend wants a build and we've been researching some parts when he asked me a question which I couldn't answer. If you found a cheap G43 board that was identical to the P43 board (say from above), why not grab that instead and disable the integrated graphics and replace it with a decent graphics. The G43 supports PCIe x16 right? And hey if it's say 25% cheaper wouldn't that make a better alternative (given that it has the same features as the P43 board with exception of integrated graphics)?

 

[pepperman]

The only reason to get a p45 vs p43 is that the p45 usually has two PCI-E slots and thus supports crossfire. As for the G43, if it has the same features, go with it. Disabling the integrated graphics will lower the northbridge temps and you'll thus likely get a better OC.

 

[Gintok]

The only reason to get a p45 vs p43 is that the p45 usually has two PCI-E slots and thus supports crossfire. As for the G43, if it has the same features, go with it. Disabling the integrated graphics will lower the northbridge temps and you'll thus likely get a better OC.

Thanks for the answers. I've noticed that there are many P45 boards that support CrossFire but there are still some which only support one card which I suppose would throw the pendulum back in favour of the P43 (in terms of value, at least).

Thanks for the tip on the G43 in regards to getting the better OC.

EDIT: Also in some cases I've seen the G43 priced closely to that of a similarly equipped P43. I found this weird because I would have thought integrated graphics would have been more expensive to produce and this would be passed down to the customer. I'd be keen to know by how much though (integrated graphics production cost).

Sorry to be full of questions, really keen to learn more

 

[SpidersWeb]

I haven't used the P43 or G43, so don't let my comments sway your opinion, I'm just posting this up to see what people think and hopefully some more P43/G43 owners to talk.

Usually I find that the lower end parts are actually the full version but with manufacturing defects. e.g. AMD X2 is actually an X4 with two broken cores, or the old Celeron's were Pentium 4's with damaged cache. (They disable the failed sections).

If that was true for the 45 chipsets, then using the 43's for overclocking could be a gamble. I'm not even sure if your friend cares about that, but buying higher binned parts has more quality benefits than purely in the featureset.

Food for thought. I just don't think Intel would actually make runs for P43 and G43, I'd expect the factory runs to be P45 and G45.

As above, I haven't used G43 or P43 for overclocking, it's just a thought I had.

The price of a chipset has lots of factors, not just production cost. e.g. some parts are cheaper to get rid of excess stock levels, or are cheaper because they've already paid for all costs and are in profit country. GPU chipsets being cheap also would increase sales in business, as most business PCs would use on-board.

I'd love to see the stats on G4x sales vs P4x sales.

 

[Gintok]

I haven't used the P43 or G43, so don't let my comments sway your opinion, I'm just posting this up to see what people think and hopefully some more P43/G43 owners to talk.

S'all good, I'm keen to learn more hence why I created the topic.

Usually I find that the lower end parts are actually the full version but with manufacturing defects. e.g. AMD X2 is actually an X4 with two broken cores, or the old Celeron's were Pentium 4's with damaged cache. (They disable the failed sections).

I've been re-reading up on the Phenom X3 unlock article (spooky coincidence that, you're not outside my window, are you?)

If that was true, then using the 43's for overclocking could be a gamble. I'm not even sure if your friend cares about that, but buying higher binned parts has more quality benefits than purely in the featureset.

He wouldn't care but extra performance for free is always a bonus

Food for thought. I just don't think Intel would actually make runs for P43 and G43, I'd expect the factory runs to be P45 and G45.

Probably

The price of a chipset has lots of factors, not just production cost. e.g. some parts are cheaper to get rid of excess stock levels, or are cheaper because they've already paid for all costs and are in profit country. GPU chipsets being cheap also would increase sales in business, as most business PCs would use on-board.

Yeah I see what you're saying. In some cases if you can mass produce an onboard VGA so much that it's so cheap (let's say G43 as an example), it can be of a comparible price to that of a P43. Supply and demand. I suppose what helps here is a strong PC market for a certain chipset that you can ride the wave on. Again there's probably other factors such as distributors and where in the world you're located.

I'd love to see the stats on G4x sales vs P4x sales.

Ditto, BIG ditto (anyone can pull this up, I'd be very keen to see the results).

Furthermore thanks for the great reply.

 

[Pointertovoid]

P45 vs P43: a second broad Pci-E can be very useful when some day in the near future you want to have a non-graphic expansion slot with a significant speed.

That is:
- Ssd already fill the throughput of a Sata2 port. Next generation will need to add a host, and PciE 1x is too narrow for it.
- Ethernet 1Gb/s is too little for today's disks and processors. You will want a 10Gb/s (1.25GB/s) Ethernet, and again, PciE 1x is too narrow.
- And everything you still ignore you will need.

-----

P43 vs G43: You should investigate (I only have a P45) how the disabled graphics processor behaves. In former chipsets (i815), it still produced a lot of heat once disabled, effectively preventing from overclocking. And the extra blower made its noise anyway.

On the i815 as well, the disabled graphics processor prevented from overclocking through non-thermal effects as well.

 

[Gintok]

P45 vs P43: a second broad Pci-E can be very useful when some day in the near future you want to have a non-graphic expansion slot with a significant speed.

That is:
- Ssd already fill the throughput of a Sata2 port. Next generation will need to add a host, and PciE 1x is too narrow for it.
- Ethernet 1Gb/s is too little for today's disks and processors. You will want a 10Gb/s (1.25GB/s) Ethernet, and again, PciE 1x is too narrow.
- And everything you still ignore you will need.

-----

P43 vs G43: You should investigate (I only have a P45) how the disabled graphics processor behaves. In former chipsets (i815), it still produced a lot of heat once disabled, effectively preventing from overclocking. And the extra blower made its noise anyway.

On the i815 as well, the disabled graphics processor prevented from overclocking through non-thermal effects as well.

Great reply but a few follow up questions. I love SSDs but by the time they become mainstream affordable to a budget market will be quite a while I imagine, in which case it probably wouldn't be feasible to utilise the PCIe connection. Are there SSDs that can just utilise a PCI slot or is that too slow?

Regarding integrated graphics, if the blower is working and the IGP is disabled, isn't this good as it's additional cooling for the board. This should be a good thing. It shouldn't be producing much heat, if any, if disabled. If what you say is true, I really hope the newer IGPs are much better.

 

[SpidersWeb]

Well if you need IGP, then you have no choice.
If you don't need it, avoid it!

If you want more NB cooling, you can stick on a 40mm fan or get an aftermarket cooler. I just got a Xigmatech Porter for my NB, will be installing in the weekend. I only need it on the P45 because it's rated 400Mhz and I'm running it at 533Mhz, so it's seven different kinds of angry.

 

[Gintok]

Well if you need IGP, then you have no choice.
If you don't need it, avoid it!

If you want more NB cooling, you can stick on a 40mm fan or get an aftermarket cooler. I just got a Xigmatech Porter for my NB, will be installing in the weekend. I only need it on the P45 because it's rated 400Mhz and I'm running it at 533Mhz, so it's seven different kinds of angry.

If it's cheaper to get the G43 (with IGP) over the P43 and has a NB fan and that isn't going to be overclocked, why not grab it anyway? Putting a card in there. Isn't a free fan and a cheaper board with the same spec a win-win?

 

[SpidersWeb]

Well the P45 doesn't need a NB fan until you get silly with it, so you're really just adding noise BUT all up you are correct, bonus features for less money.

The reason I avoid IGP is because it's given me issues in the past (previous chipsets). If the IGP disabled properly (I can't say if it does or does not) so that it doesn't generate extra heat and doesn't cause any possible conflicts (drivers etc) or reserved PCI-E lanes when disabled... then yeah I can't think of an issue. I just can't guarantee those things, so I'd personally pay the extra few bucks just to avoid the possibility.

As I said though, I've got no experience with the new G45/43's.
My dislike with IGP has come from frustrations on older generations.

 

[Pointertovoid]

I confirm the P45 runs fanless and is just lukewarm here with 33% overclock of both the Cpu and the Ram. Important to me for silence.

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Ssd on old Pci:

First, you can put a host (so-called controlled) card in the Pci, with P-Ata or S-Ata ports, and connect an Ssd there. But this limits to about 120MB/s with the best Pci bus (=Intel), so access time is the only (but huge) benefit. Rather indirect method! It adds the extra boot time for the host's firmware, so connecting a Sata Ssd to the mobo is a better option.

Then, you can use Compact Flash cards as hard disks. Their interface being just P-Ata for all fast CF cards, use a passive adapter. With a Raid host having 4 independent ports (for 8 disks), you may get 4*45MB/s which saturate the Pci, or 2*45MB/s with 2 ports.

A 4 ports card is most often 64b large, which is compatible with a 32b slot but needs room in the tower.

And then one should choose a host with a significant amount of onboard Ram in an attempt to cope with the horrible write delay of Flash - BUT as the host's firmware is not optimized for Flash, this is no guarantee it will operate the proper way!

Such a host (4 ports, 32b Pci, 16MB Ram) sold this month on eBay.de for under 5 euro +shipping. I didn't buy because of uncertainties about the host's write cache algorithm, and because 4 fast CF cards cost about as much as an old Ssd.

Finding the right CF cards also takes many trials-and-errors.

I tried to install W2k-Me-95 on a single CF card, and
- Sometimes it doesn't work (but worked every time on a Pci host)
- Installation time from a Cd can be huge, prefer a copy install from a Hdd
- Boot time isn't much better than a 7200rpm 3.5" hard disk drive
- But it is far better than a 5400rpm 2.5"
- After booting, the computer is much more responsive
So now I use a CF on my stone-age laptop.

 

[SpidersWeb]

Yep, fanless stock heatsink is fine on P45.
I only needed fan because I run a rather rediculous 533 FSB (stock is 333).

Unrelated, but installing generic heatpipe northbridge coolers is an ass btw. Did it last night and I wanted to stab myself in the face.