Intel - stopping poor children from getting computers

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Shame on Intel - Doing things like this: Intel World Ahead Program

They only spent $1 Billion dollars on this effort. They should have spent more.

Tsk Tsk...

Oh wait they too are fighting for a NON-PROPRIETARY connectivity solution (WIMAX). They are getting countries/companies to donate connectivity too.

Shame on them.

Intel is teaching the teachers too... How dare they.. Did they provide for an additional part of the infrastructure that is needed? How under handed!!

Shame on them again..

Trying to figure out ways to create locally relevant content for delivery too.

Man what are these guys trying to do! 8O 8O

Face it. There are competing organizations out there for nearly every need. To say that Intel is the evil empire is funny.. Again AMD who had Negroponte speak for them would love to be in the same situation. They just came out of this one smelling better than Intel.

You folks walking around with blinders/rose colored glasses should really wake up.

This is NOT specifically about providing knowledge to the kids of the world.

That being the by-product.

This is about name recognition for ALL involved. Intel, AMD, Negroponte, Jepson, Walter, ....

This is about profit or the potential for profit (be it discreet or indiscreet).

I did something better than you did. I worked longer at it then you did. Yours cost more. Mine does more.

If it were about the kids receiving a capability for knowledge then for all involved it would be about the kids. Ask yourself why Negroponte cares "who" provides for these kids. As long as they are provided for.

If Negroponte pulled it off he was the great man who gave the kids a laptop. When they are still going to get the device but NOT FROM HIM. What a shame.

Ask yourself why develop a Mesh Network when WIMAX is readily available. Dependence as Flasher puts it? Yeah now that country or whomever subsidizes the connectivity are linked to a proprietary interface which now needs to be maintained instead of using commercial off-the-shelf available/readily replaceable parts/equipment.

This is a proving ground for new/old tech. It is a proving ground for new ideas. It is a spring board for grants for MIT. It is a recruiting drive for MIT as well.

There are so many angles here it is surprising to me to see people so focused on only a few.

Yes I get tired of the AMD good, Intel bad, stuff. It is short sighted at best.

AMD would only hope to switch places with Intel and WOULD in a heart beat. Intel would like to gain even more ground in the industry and pay even less for it. They are ALL after the good old dollar. That is what it is about.
 
In reply to myself!!

But wait won't Intel get something in return for their $1 billion dollars spent?

Why sure.

Entry into emerging markets (already discussed here).

Entry into future emerging markets.

A possibility to enter these markets under the guise of CHARITY.
(remember some of these markets may have been prohibited in a straight "ship it for profit" scenario).

A position in the front of the line "IF" these markets (the ones currently closed) open to free trade?

A retail ready distribution capability already in place too?

Hmmmmm. All good questions?

I am not saying Intel is a saint either. I am saying that ALL involved are looking for foot holds in this.
 
In a totally unrelated topic, somewhat.

I did get to play with the Classmate PC hands on, and it's pretty slick. It's no powerhouse laptop compared to normal laptops, since it's entire memory is flash based, and it's very small screen would probably make most consumers' eyes bleed after an hour, but for what it's built for, it's pretty neat. No moving parts, quick boot to Windows XP (which is its primary OS - Linux can be installed on it, too, but not both at the same time, due to limited Flash memory size 1Gb total), and a pretty cool note taker attachment (imagine a virtual notepad using a special pen and USB receiver).

I personally don't care about finger pointing and laying blame, but if the OLPC is similar in use, then kids in developing countries both have an opportunity to push their education using these tools. And isn't this what the whole point of either program is about? The kids.
 
This is about name recognition for ALL involved. Intel, AMD, Negroponte, Jepson, Walter, ....
Click to expand...
for the umpteenth time. OLPC is NOT BRANDED.

This is about profit or the potential for profit (be it discreet or indiscreet).
Click to expand...
OLPC is not in it for profit. That's why they aren't doing loss-leading gimicks.

If it were about the kids receiving a capability for knowledge then for all involved it would be about the kids. Ask yourself why Negroponte cares "who" provides for these kids. As long as they are provided for.
Click to expand...
The classmate is a crappy laptop with all of the disadvantages of typical laptops (except for the SSD advantage) and none of the speed. That's why. It's not a working solution for many situations.

Ask yourself why develop a Mesh Network when WIMAX is readily available. Dependence as Flasher puts it? Yeah now that country or whomever subsidizes the connectivity are linked to a proprietary interface which now needs to be maintained instead of using commercial off-the-shelf available/readily replaceable parts/equipment.
Click to expand...
And then all traffic will be controlled at the WiMAX AP, which has to be installed and can only be installed at secure locations with reliable electricity. And the mesh router uses 802.11x and can connect to 802.11b/g APs and other 802.11b/g devices can connect to the mesh network. You don't even know what you're talking about here. The only maintenance cost associated with the mesh network is the electricity to keep the laptops running which doesn't have to be reliable fixed installation so it can be deployed anywhere. Also, the nature of the mesh network makes it impossible to enforce censorship against the will of the people using the network (ie: the teachers on the ground and, as they mature and learn how their device works, the students). The Classmate with WiMAX on the otherhand is full of TPM and centralized network control allowing foreign organizations to control what can and cannot be accessed. This control should be in the hands of the teachers and, eventually, the students themselves. OLPC was designed to be difficult to implement as a tool for closed-source education.

AMD would only hope to switch places with Intel and WOULD in a heart beat. Intel would like to gain even more ground in the industry and pay even less for it. They are ALL after the good old dollar. That is what it is about.
Click to expand...
OLPC is not AMD! AMD supplies a couple chips for the device, that is all. They don't get to brand the laptop. OLPC could switch to another supplier. This isn't about Intel vs. AMD. It's about Intel stepping on OLPC in their lust to stamp out AMD and to, once again, use their marketing dollars to block a superior and cheaper competing product from attaining broad distribution.

There is a huge disparity in philosophy and conduct here and it is apearant on every level.

Would the Classmate work: in anyplace with reliable electricity either at home or at school, yes.
Would WiMAX work: in anyplace where a broadcast tower of someplace could be safely and securely installed and supplied with reliable electricity, yes
Could the control technologies build into those devices be used to censor and repress education much in the way that China and USSR have/done: you betcha
Is intel doing this for brand recognition and hopes of future profits in emerging markets: of course
Is OLPC: nope
Is AMD going to make money off OLPC: they hope so
Do they get name recognition in emerging markets: nope
Do they get name recognition in existing markets: they should
Is the X0 better than Classmate in every imaginable way: no! Classmate has more CPU power and can be configured with a larger SSD. Of course that doesn't matter to 3rd world schoolchildren and otherwise yes, the OLPC is better

What part of this don't you understand???

STOP POSTING if you don't know what these projects consist of.

www.laptop.org and www.classmatepc.com

It's all there. There is no excuse to spout of ignorant assumptions about how the mesh network works. And FFS everyone at these message boards should know how network control works and immediately realize how centralized network control and TPM has the potential to turn a laptop into a brainwashing tool. Have you been paying attention to what is going on with internet access in china at all???
 
From the horse's mouth:
In addition to developing specialized platforms, Intel is working with governments around the world to deliver affordable PC purchase programs that give citizens and businesses easier access to trusted Intel®-based computers, as well as to develop localized content for the next billion new users.
Click to expand...
http://www.intel.com/intel/worldahead/accessibility.htm?iid=worldahead+ln_accessibility

Do I even need to say anything? OLPC wants to provide free and open access to education and communication Intel wants to give them TPM.

Was there something else on that website I was supposed to find? Their news is kinda old and doesn't even seem to mention Classmate.
 
I am not saying Intel is a saint either. I am saying that ALL involved are looking for foot holds in this.
Click to expand...
That's simply not true though. OLPC is a not-for-profit organization. They refuse to brand the units, refuse to make deals with companies that want strings attached to their deals (MS being the obvious one and it's perhaps part of why they didn't go with intel chips), and the pledge to drive the price down which makes the prospects of future profits pretty slim. Just looking at the hardware specs shows that the device is intended to be a stand alone unit for children, not a foothold into an emerging market.

They need the volume to push out new technologies that are necessary to make these devices useful and inexpensive for their target users. The reflective monochrome monitor mode, the partial suspend, the mesh router. The classmate is just a crappy stripped-down laptop. The note taker thing isn't even part of it. The X0has USB ports too.
 
Flasher,

You are funny.

I see you understand much :roll: :roll:

You see the censorship for which talk of, can still happen easily in a wireless mesh network as well.

There is STILL a need for an AP... At SOME point they DO have to reach the Internet do they not? :roll: :roll: Yeah you are the school on this one.

You think these will also NOT be used for propaganda purposes? Who do you think is providing the monies for these? You think they will NOT take advantage of this?

Please do not keep saying connectivity is FREE. It is NOT. It is subsidized to the level of being FREE to the child (hopefully). It IS however paid for by SOMEONE be it country or company at a continued cost.

It most certainly IS about name recognition. Why else would AMD invite Negroponte to speak? Why else would they make it a "stumble upon" link in a Google query?

You obviously do NOT understand the tech involved as well. As you keep saying the batteries are better on the OLPC. What you seem to conveniently forget is that NiMH still require maintenance charges and do NOT take well to continuous trickle charging. They also can have early deterioration rates when NOT properly maintained. These batteries also have the potential to gain a "memory". However this is less likely in the modern generations.

Li-ion is NOT the save all either but its lighter weight and better capabilities with a lack of memory effects.

I linked to the SITE at that location ON PURPOSE. Thanks for clarifying that I indeed DID link to it. I needed that.

I also understand where you are coming from ( you seem very passionate about it ) but on "some" points YOU are not correct. On some points you are down right naive.

So have a good day mmmmK?
 
Flasher,

Like it or NOT there are strings attached. There are NO deals that go down without strings attached.

You think these companies are offering these things/parts out of the goodness of their hearts? :) :) :)

You funny!!

There is the write off for taxes. Hmm where should our donatable dollars go this year? Hmmmm how about to the places where we get the best return. Yup FREE publicity as the GOOD GUYS :) :).

Oh but they are NOT branded :) :) :)

And I am sure that both INTEL and AMD will not be honored in some industry function for their contributions to projects like these. :)

If you think that ANY large CAP company is in ANYTHING for non-profit somewhere you are sadly mistaken.

Again it is ALL about the ANGLES.
 
And by the way Flash,

Strings are everywhere. Ya just got to look in the right locations.

I do a deal with a smaller company that is not directly related to MY bottom line. I get to see how they operate, how they deliver, how they sustain, hos they integrate and ...

Maybe I was interested in what they had to offer. Maybe after a small project for which I do not get hurt I find that I no longer want to play in their sandbox.

Maybe I find they are a perfect fit. I get to partner without actually partnering. Hmmmm possibly useful information garnered without having to dive straight in...
 
And Flash,

Nope no strings.. None... Nope :)

With NO STRINGS - I am going to spin up fab for a speculated (no strings) volume, for an (anytime they want to change vendors) type of deal too.

In fact you are SO RIGHT that I am sure that they do not even have a contract for these services/parts. It is on good faith right?

Oh wait it is a volume purchase deal... Hmmmm.... That nice company out of the goodness of their hearts are NOT just going to give them FREE product?

Yup no strings there.

You funny :)
 
DID I SAY OLPC "IS" AMD?

Nope!!

That might be one of your random allegations. :)

I said they are participating and I linked to where they invited Negroponte to speak and demonstrate a device that contains AMD hardware.

Try as you might you can NOT separate the two... AMD is counting on it.. In fact Negroponte is counting on it too..

OLPC went through a vendor selection process just like everyone else does. They picked their vendors based upon some criteria. That criteria should have been the capability to produce at the given volumes and the capability to deliver within the targeted dollar amount. I am sure there are many other reasons as well.

Redhat also has enjoyed stepping up to the plate with their youtube videos. In conjunction with OLPC staff. Hey more power to them.

Simple fact is Redhat as a Linux distro was chosen and MS was not because of the cost to play ball. They for that matter could have created their OWN distro and not had any issue with that. They chose Redhat.

Good for them the expertise was there and they could help with the project. It is pretty easy for Redhat to give away a linux distro that is free to begin with. What is commendable is the effort they expended on the project tightening the release to fit nicely on the OLPC.


Flash, do not think that I am against the project. I am not. I am however aware that the people involved will gain in some form or fashion (again discreet or indiscreet, spiritually or financially,...).
 
Flash,

AMD offers OLPC credibility. Just as the Intel name offers credibility to their own product.

You think they could walk into a meeting with a head of state/education and offer a Transmeta processor (meant to be humorous :))? AMD is what gets them through the door. Their screen design is what gets them through the door (kudos Jepson). Finally their price gets them through the door.

Just stepping back a little bit and looking at the whole in a critical fashion can lead to some answers.
 
Pardon me for being too lazy read all thirteen pages of what I can only assume has turned into a fanboy flamewar.

I also apologize if the following opinions have already been voiced.

Here's my take; let Billy G., who is well known for his philanthropic big-hearted ways, fork over the half billion for the computers.

Of course they will have Windows MEII, I mean Vista pre-installed so that M$ can expand their influence *cough* monopoly *cough*.

But realistically; do you think those kids in Africa or Afghanistan or wherever would rather have a laptop, or a decent home and three square meals a day?

I'll be willing to bet that should these computers ever be delivered to the governments of the countries where all these underprivileged kids live, you find 90% of them for sale on EBay.

Oh, and I'm feeling rather underprivileged since I can't afford a QX6800 and two 8800 Ultras for my new gaming rig. Boo Hoo, won't someone buy them for me?
 
Let me tell, you, as a personal friend to the Devil, or as he prefers to be called, Señor Diablo, his Satanicness is getting quite tired with being accused with Intel's supposed crimes. He wants everyone to know that he gets enough flack each day for being blamed for extra-marital affairs to brutal murders without having do deal with the number of hate letters lambasting him for being the cause of Intel's "evil".... that and he says Happy Hour starts in 20 minutes. $3 Margaritas! ¡Ole!
 
Arc,

cmon... It is ONLY 13 pages of rant (/me included :)).

Laziness too has its gains!! Just in the areas you may not want/expect :)

On a serious note.. Do you think these machines will be scrubbed/scrutinized prior to final delivery? I do.

I also think their might be some specific requirements levied against them as well. Maybe a country flag as the default screen saver? Maybe a scrolling banner with patriotic/influential words written in several native languages? If not delivered this way... Then changed before receipt?
 
Well, Señor Diablo said that ol' Hector tries to play the angel too much. He did say that Ruiz has crazy licks on the guitar and with a couple mojitos flowing he and Pauly O' danced the night away once.
 
Hey,

A quick morals question?

If we give laptops (the kids choice which) to the kids that Kathy Lee was using as slave labor, does that make it OK?

I'm just askin!!
 
K,

[VISUAL] Now I am imagining that dance floor that he always talks about....

Baron and Hector bumping and grinding and grinding and bumping!! [/VISUAL]

Sorry had to stop almost lost my lunch :)

But there is NO WAY that Paul O and the Baron could be in the same room together let alone play golf 😉...

Or could he? Hmmmmmm!!
 
If you think about it Baron devalues AMD by taking BS as gospel :wink: He's an intel plant.
Click to expand...
I frequently wonder if Henri Richard isn't secretly an Intel employee, he certainly turns anybody off on AMD that has to listen to him.
 
Arc,

cmon... It is ONLY 13 pages of rant (/me included :)).

Laziness too has its gains!! Just in the areas you may not want/expect :)

On a serious note.. Do you think these machines will be scrubbed/scrutinized prior to final delivery? I do.

I also think their might be some specific requirements levied against them as well. Maybe a country flag as the default screen saver? Maybe a scrolling banner with patriotic/influential words written in several native languages? If not delivered this way... Then changed before receipt?
Click to expand...
On the OLPC they could change it right back. On the Intel machine the TPM could be used to disable the system. Possibly force a reinstall or phone home to alert the authorities of dissidence?
 
Flash, do not think that I am against the project. I am not. I am however aware that the people involved will gain in some form or fashion (again discreet or indiscreet, spiritually or financially,...).
Click to expand...
But it's not AMD vs. Intel, which IS what you keep saying. It's Intel vs. a tiny non-profit. And who cares who at Intel or OLPC have to gain (I'm really not anti-capitalist be it monetary capitalism or spiritual-feelgoodie-points whoring)? I care about what the children have to loose. The Classmate + wimax + winxp solution is grossly inferior with high potential for abuse and creates a system of dependence with vastly more at stake then OLPC does (again, the batteries are unavoidable. I really wish someone would invent better batteries already).

Most of you ought to know what it's like using a 2year old Li-Ion battery in a laptop. You can't get any work done like that. And most of you should have at least heard of network and Internet connections that do things like block ports (yay for living on campus) even in USA and how much more they do in places like China. OLPC recognized these challenges and worked on a design to overcome them. Intel did the opposite.

Intel is obviously aggressively going head to head with OLPC here, for whatever reason. They have blatantly marketed it that way. They want to undermine OLPC. The only valid argument in their defense is the capitalistic ideal that with competition they can offer a better product at a lower price. But they aren't. They're giving a few away for free now so they don't have to compete later. It's not better, it's not cheaper, and it's not competitive.

Well ches, at least you seem to have finally read up on the OLPC project so you can recognize what merits it does have. That's good. No one knows for sure if the project will be successful in the field, but I'm afraid for the children of "emerging markets" who grow up in a TPM-controlled, intel-promotion-loaded, classroom if the Classmate is successful.

OLPC: one laptop per child

Intel: laptops for "the next billion people" and "emerging markets".

Intel can't stop talking about children like potential revenue and statistics even when they try to act like they are being charitable. It's pathetic really. They can't even fake it.
 
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