Intel's Future Chips: News, Rumours & Reviews

[juanrga]

You two are ridiculous, Intel owns ~90% of the market, and you have conspiracy theories that others are plotting against Intel. Especially given Intel's rocky unethical past. It's comical how blind some people can be....

We know well the unethical past of both AMD and Intel. I have always enjoyed how some people pretend to present always to Intel as an evil corporation that milks users and to AMD as an innocent non-profit organization whose mission is the behalf of consumers. And the funny part is that all that people that spend time posting weird conspiracy theories in Intel forums never never have any proof or minimal suspicion. All their argument reduces to repeating that Intel was dirty in the past.

 

[goldstone77]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

 

[juanrga]

45W Coffee Lake-H Series

Core i5-8300H: 4C/8T, 8M L3 Default 2.3 GHz, All Core 3.9 GHz, Single Core 4.0 GHz

Core i5-8400H: 4C/8T, 8MB L3 Default 2.5 GHz, All Core 4.1 GHz, Single Core 4.2 GHz

Core i7-8750H: 6C/12T, 9MB L3 Default 2.2 GHz, All Core 3.9 GHz, single Core 4.1 GHz

Core i7-8850H: 6C/12T, 9MB L3 Default 2.6 GHz, All Core 4.0 GHz, Single Core 4.3 GHz

Core i9-8950HK 6C/12T, 12MB L3 Default 4.3 GHz, Single Core 4.8 GHz

Xeon 2176M 6C/12T 12MB L3 Default 2.7 GHz, 4.1 All Core, Single Core 4.4 GHz

Xeon E-2186M 6C/12T, 12MB Default 2.9 GHz, All Core 4.3 GHz, Single Core 4.8 GHz

Intel UHD Graphics 630

www.chiphell.com/thread-1817327-1-2.html

 

[goldstone77]

I bet that cat doesn't swim like a duck! HAHAHA
That's no duck!

 

[YoAndy]

You two are ridiculous, Intel owns ~90% of the market, and you have conspiracy theories that others are plotting against Intel. Especially given Intel's rocky unethical past. It's comical how blind some people can be....

I know the truth may hurt some people, but like it or hate it AMD can not be comparable with Intel as a whole..Once upon a time, AMD built its own microprocessors in company-owned factories. In 1997, AMD presented its first Athlon processor. The company introduced many industry-first innovations, the first 64-bit x86 processor, the first dual-core PC processor, and the energy-saving PowerNow! and Cool'n'Quiet technologies. These were the gold days where AMD had Intel playing defense, catching up to AMD's innovations rather than the other way around."NOT ANYMORE", now AMD is just a chip designer using GLOFLO technologies as their base structure. Intel last year made more than $16.1 billion in revenue on earnings of 94 cents per share, beating Wall Street estimates of $15.73 billion in revenue on earnings of 80 cents per share. Intel realizes that AMD is "not" the main threat going forward.'WE ALL KNOW THAT" AMD's Ryzen is good, but frankly, We all know that as today AMD can't beat Intel's raw performance. AMD can only fight a war for a market in overall decline. While Intel is currently in the defensive mode, the real battle is not in CPU but rather GPU "NVIDIA" if you take a long-term viewpoint.

Like I have mentioned in multiple occasions Nvidia GPUs are taking on more CPU functions with time, and this will only get worse for Intel (and AMD). The future may be GPU

 

[-Fran-]

You two are ridiculous, Intel owns ~90% of the market, and you have conspiracy theories that others are plotting against Intel. Especially given Intel's rocky unethical past. It's comical how blind some people can be....

I know the truth may hurt some people, but like it or hate it AMD can not be comparable with Intel as a whole..Once upon a time, AMD built its own microprocessors in company-owned factories. In 1997, AMD presented its first Athlon processor. The company introduced many industry-first innovations, the first 64-bit x86 processor, the first dual-core PC processor, and the energy-saving PowerNow! and Cool'n'Quiet technologies. These were the gold days where AMD had Intel playing defense, catching up to AMD's innovations rather than the other way around."NOT ANYMORE", now AMD is just a chip designer using GLOFLO technologies as their base structure. Intel last year made more than $16.1 billion in revenue on earnings of 94 cents per share, beating Wall Street estimates of $15.73 billion in revenue on earnings of 80 cents per share. Intel realizes that AMD is "not" the main threat going forward.'WE ALL KNOW THAT" AMD's Ryzen is good, but frankly, We all know that as today AMD can't beat Intel's raw performance. AMD can only fight a war for a market in overall decline. While Intel is currently in the defensive mode, the real battle is not in CPU but rather GPU "NVIDIA" if you take a long-term viewpoint.

Like I have mentioned in multiple occasions Nvidia GPUs are taking on more CPU functions with time, and this will only get worse for Intel (and AMD). The future may be GPU

If you want to go back a bit more in History, you will see that AMD was born thanks to IBM, to preempt being tied to Intel as their single provider back in the... 60s?. Ironic, huh?

 

[YoAndy]

You two are ridiculous, Intel owns ~90% of the market, and you have conspiracy theories that others are plotting against Intel. Especially given Intel's rocky unethical past. It's comical how blind some people can be....

I know the truth may hurt some people, but like it or hate it AMD can not be comparable with Intel as a whole..Once upon a time, AMD built its own microprocessors in company-owned factories. In 1997, AMD presented its first Athlon processor. The company introduced many industry-first innovations, the first 64-bit x86 processor, the first dual-core PC processor, and the energy-saving PowerNow! and Cool'n'Quiet technologies. These were the gold days where AMD had Intel playing defense, catching up to AMD's innovations rather than the other way around."NOT ANYMORE", now AMD is just a chip designer using GLOFLO technologies as their base structure. Intel last year made more than $16.1 billion in revenue on earnings of 94 cents per share, beating Wall Street estimates of $15.73 billion in revenue on earnings of 80 cents per share. Intel realizes that AMD is "not" the main threat going forward.'WE ALL KNOW THAT" AMD's Ryzen is good, but frankly, We all know that as today AMD can't beat Intel's raw performance. AMD can only fight a war for a market in overall decline. While Intel is currently in the defensive mode, the real battle is not in CPU but rather GPU "NVIDIA" if you take a long-term viewpoint.

Like I have mentioned in multiple occasions Nvidia GPUs are taking on more CPU functions with time, and this will only get worse for Intel (and AMD). The future may be GPU

If you want to go back a bit more in History, you will see that AMD was born thanks to IBM, to preempt being tied to Intel as their single provider back in the... 60s?. Ironic, huh?

Yes we know that Intel is the original and AMD is the copy..

 

[goldstone77]

AMD was never meant to be a challenge to Intel. It was just supposed to be a second source for chips for IBM. And since AMDs inception Intel has done everything in it's power to hamstring AMD, including miles of litigation for unethical practices, and despite having the fastest processors they couldn't give a million away to OEMs, because of the choke hold Intel had on the ecosystem through anticompetitive cash bribes. Say you built the fastest most economical car in the world, and no dealerships would sell it, because they are being paid only to sell your competitors brand, and not yours. How much of an impact would that have on your business? Especially, when you weren't much to begin with then a big elephant just lays on you till you can barely breath. Whenever anyone looks through a catalog to buy a new cars your car isn't even shown. How do you recover from that? You are kept on life support just so there is one more competitor and you won't be broken up as a monopoly. Now that being said 2019 Ryzen will be built on a 7nm process capable of 5GHz operations. This will prove to be a much better competition for Intel. But Intel will still be the elephant in the room capable of just sitting on AMD until they choke the life out of them.

 

[gamerk316]

You two are ridiculous, Intel owns ~90% of the market, and you have conspiracy theories that others are plotting against Intel. Especially given Intel's rocky unethical past. It's comical how blind some people can be....

I know the truth may hurt some people, but like it or hate it AMD can not be comparable with Intel as a whole..Once upon a time, AMD built its own microprocessors in company-owned factories. In 1997, AMD presented its first Athlon processor. The company introduced many industry-first innovations, the first 64-bit x86 processor, the first dual-core PC processor, and the energy-saving PowerNow! and Cool'n'Quiet technologies. These were the gold days where AMD had Intel playing defense, catching up to AMD's innovations rather than the other way around."NOT ANYMORE", now AMD is just a chip designer using GLOFLO technologies as their base structure. Intel last year made more than $16.1 billion in revenue on earnings of 94 cents per share, beating Wall Street estimates of $15.73 billion in revenue on earnings of 80 cents per share. Intel realizes that AMD is "not" the main threat going forward.'WE ALL KNOW THAT" AMD's Ryzen is good, but frankly, We all know that as today AMD can't beat Intel's raw performance. AMD can only fight a war for a market in overall decline. While Intel is currently in the defensive mode, the real battle is not in CPU but rather GPU "NVIDIA" if you take a long-term viewpoint.

Like I have mentioned in multiple occasions Nvidia GPUs are taking on more CPU functions with time, and this will only get worse for Intel (and AMD). The future may be GPU

Traditional CPUs will still have their place; GPUs suck balls at general purpose workloads as you can't put the advanced processing portions necessary on the die without compromising the massively parallel operations that they are good at.

But yes, NVIDIA is Intels closest competitor right now. I'd argue there's only a very narrow part of the market AMD and Intel even directly fight over now, and the new Intel CPU with AMD graphics is an admission of that fact.

 

[goldstone77]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12355/supermicro-at-ces-2018-x299-motherboards-for-upcoming-300w-cpus?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Staying on the CPU for a second: the reason it is called the ‘PG300’ is because this motherboard is geared up to accept CPUs with up to 300W TDP. This comes across as somewhat odd – the X299 platform only has CPUs up to 165W listed. Even with turbo modes applied and all cores going, somewhere around 240-250W is ‘normal’, which would mean that the system is being geared for something bigger.

Things that make you go hmmmm....

 

[juanrga]

AMD was never meant to be a challenge to Intel. It was just supposed to be a second source for chips for IBM. And since AMDs inception Intel has done everything in it's power to hamstring AMD, including miles of litigation for unethical practices, and despite having the fastest processors they couldn't give a million away to OEMs, because of the choke hold Intel had on the ecosystem through anticompetitive cash bribes. Say you built the fastest most economical car in the world, and no dealerships would sell it, because they are being paid only to sell your competitors brand, and not yours. How much of an impact would that have on your business?

How convenient we forget all the times that AMD was involved in illegal practices such as reverse engineering Intel chips or licensing x86 to a third party without authorization from Intel.

How convenient we forget AMD got $1.25 billion in cash from Intel as compensation for Intel illegal practices regarding OEMs.

Even guys as Fran Barton (then Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer @ AMD) admitted those illegal practices from Intel weren't the reason for the posterior economic fiasco of AMD.

"[Even without the lawsuit against Intel,] it wouldn’t have mattered," he said. "[Sanders] took his shot, and the game’s been played."

The real reason were the dozens of strategic, engineering, and financial mistakes made by AMD. When Barton mentions Sanders he means Sanders' idiotic vision "Real men have fabs", which almost ruined the company as other former AMD Chiefs have confirmed (I bold the relevant part):

"The trouble in the entire economic model was that AMD did not have enough capital to be able to fund fabs the way they were funding fabs," Raza said. "The point at which I had my final conflict was that [Sanders] started the process of building a new fab with borrowed money prematurely. We didn't need a fab for at least another year. If we had done it a year later, we would have accumulated enough profits to afford the fab in Germany. He laid the foundation for a fundamentally inefficient capital structure that AMD never recovered from. I told him: don't do it. I put the [purchase orders] on hold. He didn't tell me and accelerated the entire process."

Sanders was something of a paradox. On the one hand, he was full of energy and would never accept that AMD could fail. But on the other hand, he never seemed willing to put the long-term effort into developing a strategic plan. As a result we had a mediocre customer plan, a hit-or-miss reputation, and no global strategy at all...

But I guess it is much simpler to accuse Intel of everything. I wonder how many time will pass before Intel is accused of all the mistakes are being made by Lisa Su.

 

[-Fran-]

But I guess it is much simpler to accuse Intel of everything. I wonder how many time will pass before Intel is accused of all the mistakes are being make by Lisa Su.

Oh, this is an interesting remark.

What is Miss Su doing "wrong", according to you?

I'll pass on the AMD vs Intel holiness discussion, since both are just companies looking for the best way to get your hard earned cash. Plus, you already said, some time ago, that AMD would be in the same position even if Intel wouldn't have blocked them back in the Athlon days.

 

[juanrga]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12355/supermicro-at-ces-2018-x299-motherboards-for-upcoming-300w-cpus?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Staying on the CPU for a second: the reason it is called the ‘PG300’ is because this motherboard is geared up to accept CPUs with up to 300W TDP. This comes across as somewhat odd – the X299 platform only has CPUs up to 165W listed. Even with turbo modes applied and all cores going, somewhere around 240-250W is ‘normal’, which would mean that the system is being geared for something bigger.

Things that make you go hmmmm....

Anandtech is not even a shadow of what it was.

Just expecting Anandtech to publish news about how Supermicro released the past year a Z370 mobo with support up to 120W, when the top CoffeeLake chips is only 95W

 

[-Fran-]

Anandtech is not even a shadow of what it was.

Just expecting Anandtech to publish news about how Supermicro released the past year a Z370 mobo with support up to 120W, when the top CoffeeLake chips is only 95W

Spoiler

https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/955905967467716608

Hahaha.

 

[goldstone77]

Anandtech is not even a shadow of what it was.

Just expecting Anandtech to publish news about how Supermicro released the past year a Z370 mobo with support up to 120W, when the top CoffeeLake chips is only 95W

Spoiler

https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/955905967467716608

Hahaha.

I hit print screen to add to my folder!

 

[8350rocks]

Anandtech is not even a shadow of what it was.

Just expecting Anandtech to publish news about how Supermicro released the past year a Z370 mobo with support up to 120W, when the top CoffeeLake chips is only 95W

Spoiler

https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/955905967467716608

Hahaha.

Kudos where it is due. Well played.

 

[aldaia]

Anandtech is not even a shadow of what it was.

Just expecting Anandtech to publish news about how Supermicro released the past year a Z370 mobo with support up to 120W, when the top CoffeeLake chips is only 95W

Spoiler

https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/955905967467716608

Hahaha.

oooh, right on the jaw!

 

[juanrga]

https://twitter.com/juanrga/status/955968966123499526

So as I suspected the Supermicro engineers are simply rating the mobos for overclocked chips.

Intel is not going to release a 300W Skylake-X model, just as it didn't release a 120W CoffeeLake model.

Ian's article is baseless...

 

[YoAndy]

AMD was never meant to be a challenge to Intel. It was just supposed to be a second source for chips for IBM. And since AMDs inception Intel has done everything in it's power to hamstring AMD, including miles of litigation for unethical practices, and despite having the fastest processors they couldn't give a million away to OEMs, because of the choke hold Intel had on the ecosystem through anticompetitive cash bribes. Say you built the fastest most economical car in the world, and no dealerships would sell it, because they are being paid only to sell your competitors brand, and not yours. How much of an impact would that have on your business? Especially, when you weren't much to begin with then a big elephant just lays on you till you can barely breath. Whenever anyone looks through a catalog to buy a new cars your car isn't even shown. How do you recover from that? You are kept on life support just so there is one more competitor and you won't be broken up as a monopoly. Now that being said 2019 Ryzen will be built on a 7nm process capable of 5GHz operations. This will prove to be a much better competition for Intel. But Intel will still be the elephant in the room capable of just sitting on AMD until they choke the life out of them.

How can you be so certain that Zen 2019 will be able to hit 5GHz?

 

[goldstone77]

AMD was never meant to be a challenge to Intel. It was just supposed to be a second source for chips for IBM. And since AMDs inception Intel has done everything in it's power to hamstring AMD, including miles of litigation for unethical practices, and despite having the fastest processors they couldn't give a million away to OEMs, because of the choke hold Intel had on the ecosystem through anticompetitive cash bribes. Say you built the fastest most economical car in the world, and no dealerships would sell it, because they are being paid only to sell your competitors brand, and not yours. How much of an impact would that have on your business? Especially, when you weren't much to begin with then a big elephant just lays on you till you can barely breath. Whenever anyone looks through a catalog to buy a new cars your car isn't even shown. How do you recover from that? You are kept on life support just so there is one more competitor and you won't be broken up as a monopoly. Now that being said 2019 Ryzen will be built on a 7nm process capable of 5GHz operations. This will prove to be a much better competition for Intel. But Intel will still be the elephant in the room capable of just sitting on AMD until they choke the life out of them.

How can you be so certain that Zen 2019 will be able to hit 5GHz?

GlobalFoundries brochures about it's technology. 14nm stated 3.5GHz operations. The 7nm states 5GHz operations. All the information from IEDM this year also suggests the performance is inline with the brochure. Here is the link to a previous post, which included information about IEDM.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1581001/intel-future-chips-news-rumours-reviews/page-55.html#20526243

 

[juanrga]

AMD was never meant to be a challenge to Intel. It was just supposed to be a second source for chips for IBM. And since AMDs inception Intel has done everything in it's power to hamstring AMD, including miles of litigation for unethical practices, and despite having the fastest processors they couldn't give a million away to OEMs, because of the choke hold Intel had on the ecosystem through anticompetitive cash bribes. Say you built the fastest most economical car in the world, and no dealerships would sell it, because they are being paid only to sell your competitors brand, and not yours. How much of an impact would that have on your business? Especially, when you weren't much to begin with then a big elephant just lays on you till you can barely breath. Whenever anyone looks through a catalog to buy a new cars your car isn't even shown. How do you recover from that? You are kept on life support just so there is one more competitor and you won't be broken up as a monopoly. Now that being said 2019 Ryzen will be built on a 7nm process capable of 5GHz operations. This will prove to be a much better competition for Intel. But Intel will still be the elephant in the room capable of just sitting on AMD until they choke the life out of them.

How can you be so certain that Zen 2019 will be able to hit 5GHz?

GlobalFoundries brochures about it's technology. 14nm stated 3.5GHz operations. The 7nm states 5GHz operations. All the information from IEDM this year also suggests the performance is inline with the brochure. Here is the link to a previous post, which included information about IEDM.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1581001/intel-future-chips-news-rumours-reviews/page-55.html#20526243

Glofo didn't state 3.5GHz for the 14nm used by AMD neither 5GHz for the 7nm used by AMD.

 

[-Fran-]

AMD was never meant to be a challenge to Intel. It was just supposed to be a second source for chips for IBM. And since AMDs inception Intel has done everything in it's power to hamstring AMD, including miles of litigation for unethical practices, and despite having the fastest processors they couldn't give a million away to OEMs, because of the choke hold Intel had on the ecosystem through anticompetitive cash bribes. Say you built the fastest most economical car in the world, and no dealerships would sell it, because they are being paid only to sell your competitors brand, and not yours. How much of an impact would that have on your business? Especially, when you weren't much to begin with then a big elephant just lays on you till you can barely breath. Whenever anyone looks through a catalog to buy a new cars your car isn't even shown. How do you recover from that? You are kept on life support just so there is one more competitor and you won't be broken up as a monopoly. Now that being said 2019 Ryzen will be built on a 7nm process capable of 5GHz operations. This will prove to be a much better competition for Intel. But Intel will still be the elephant in the room capable of just sitting on AMD until they choke the life out of them.

How can you be so certain that Zen 2019 will be able to hit 5GHz?

GlobalFoundries brochures about it's technology. 14nm stated 3.5GHz operations. The 7nm states 5GHz operations. All the information from IEDM this year also suggests the performance is inline with the brochure. Here is the link to a previous post, which included information about IEDM.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1581001/intel-future-chips-news-rumours-reviews/page-55.html#20526243

Glofo didn't state 3.5GHz for the 14nm used by AMD neither 5GHz for the 7nm used by AMD.

"40% performance increase at fixed power or a 55% power reduction at fixed frequency".

For the same power envelope, they can increase whatever they call "performance" by 40%, so I would imagine the direct implication is around frequency scaling at certain power envelopes. At 3Ghz-equivalent power they can jump to 4.2Ghz-equivalent power in a single core scenario, but I'd say that number will be caveated with more than single cores and overall circuitry power draw.

 

[juanrga]

AMD was never meant to be a challenge to Intel. It was just supposed to be a second source for chips for IBM. And since AMDs inception Intel has done everything in it's power to hamstring AMD, including miles of litigation for unethical practices, and despite having the fastest processors they couldn't give a million away to OEMs, because of the choke hold Intel had on the ecosystem through anticompetitive cash bribes. Say you built the fastest most economical car in the world, and no dealerships would sell it, because they are being paid only to sell your competitors brand, and not yours. How much of an impact would that have on your business? Especially, when you weren't much to begin with then a big elephant just lays on you till you can barely breath. Whenever anyone looks through a catalog to buy a new cars your car isn't even shown. How do you recover from that? You are kept on life support just so there is one more competitor and you won't be broken up as a monopoly. Now that being said 2019 Ryzen will be built on a 7nm process capable of 5GHz operations. This will prove to be a much better competition for Intel. But Intel will still be the elephant in the room capable of just sitting on AMD until they choke the life out of them.

How can you be so certain that Zen 2019 will be able to hit 5GHz?

GlobalFoundries brochures about it's technology. 14nm stated 3.5GHz operations. The 7nm states 5GHz operations. All the information from IEDM this year also suggests the performance is inline with the brochure. Here is the link to a previous post, which included information about IEDM.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1581001/intel-future-chips-news-rumours-reviews/page-55.html#20526243

Glofo didn't state 3.5GHz for the 14nm used by AMD neither 5GHz for the 7nm used by AMD.

"40% performance increase at fixed power or a 55% power reduction at fixed frequency".

For the same power envelope, they can increase whatever they call "performance" by 40%, so I would imagine the direct implication is around frequency scaling at certain power envelopes. At 3Ghz-equivalent power they can jump to 4.2Ghz-equivalent power in a single core scenario, but I'd say that number will be caveated with more than single cores and overall circuitry power draw.

And Glofo did claim that 14LPP gives 55% higher performance than 28HPP

Does this mean that 14LPP is a 6GHz node because 28HPP was capable of 4GHz? Obviously no.

We already discussed that 7nm Glofo graph in some AMD thread, and it was demonstrated then that the graph was derived from a model with idealized transistors, not the transistors one can find in real CPUs.

 

[goldstone77]

The 7nm process will be used for both IBM and AMD. There are different IP blocks that can be implemented. High Performance will use 9T libraries.

 

[goldstone77]

Why will GlobalFoundries transistors perform better on 7nm vs 14nm?