Intel's Future Chips: News, Rumours & Reviews

[aldaia]

10nm Cannonlake chips start shipping in second half of this year. And 10nm+ Icelake is coming in 2018.

I would noy bet my honor on that. Looks like Intel cannon-lake has been delayed to late-2018 reportedly due to 10nm issues.
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20170920PD207.html
https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3017743/intel-reportedly-delays-10nm-cannon-lake-cpus-until-late-2018
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/59209/intel-delays-10nm-cpu-tech-third-time-late-2018/index.html
https://www.neowin.net/news/intels-10nm-cannonlake-processors-delayed-to-late-2018
https://www.dvhardware.net/article67284.html

If the slide shown by neowin.net is the source of the rumor, the rumor is wrong. It's an old Intel slide that shows when Intel introduced a process technology above the time bar and when their competitors introduced the same technology below the time bar. It has been mischaracterized by neowin.

Aparently the source is digitimes

The sources have told DigiTimes that the delay in the shipment of the processors is causing many manufacturers to consider skipping the Cannonlake altogether to wait for the release of the 9th-generation Ice Lake 10nm-process chips. DigiTimes said that many notebook vendors have started their 2018 notebook request for quotation (RFQ) processes, but now are forced to shift gears with the Intel delay.

 

[juanrga]

10nm Cannonlake chips start shipping in second half of this year. And 10nm+ Icelake is coming in 2018.

I would noy bet my honor on that. Looks like Intel cannon-lake has been delayed to late-2018 reportedly due to 10nm issues.
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20170920PD207.html
https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3017743/intel-reportedly-delays-10nm-cannon-lake-cpus-until-late-2018
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/59209/intel-delays-10nm-cpu-tech-third-time-late-2018/index.html
https://www.neowin.net/news/intels-10nm-cannonlake-processors-delayed-to-late-2018
https://www.dvhardware.net/article67284.html

Intel just showed a 10nm wafer of CanonLake chips.

Intel also showed a 10nm wafer of ARM chips.

So far as I know CanonLake chips are in production now. I guess the 'source' guy confounded CannonLake with Icelake. Part of the chips originally named CannonLake were rescheduled as IceLake.

Edit: Ian just tweeted that Intel confirmed that CanonLake is in schedule to be launched this year

https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/910583388704329728

 

[goldstone77]

Intel Displays 10nm Wafer, Commits to 10nm ‘Falcon Mesa’ FPGAs
by Ian Cutress on September 19, 2017 8:30 AM EST

On the back of Intel’s Technology and Manufacturing Day in March, the company presented another iteration of the information at an equivalent event in Beijing this week. Most of the content was fairly similar to the previous TMD, with a few further insights into how some of the technology is progressing. High up on that list would be how Intel is coming along with its own 10nm process, as well as several plans regarding the 10nm product portfolio.

The headline here was ‘we have a wafer’, as shown in the image above. Intel disclosed that this wafer was from a production run of a 10nm test chip containing ARM Cortex A75 cores, implemented with ‘industry standard design flows’, and was built to target a performance level in excess of 3 GHz. Both TSMC and Samsung are shipping their versions of their ‘10nm’ processes, however Intel reiterated the claim that their technology uses tighter transistors and metal pitches for almost double the density of other competing 10nm technologies. While chips such as the Huawei Kirin 970 from TSMC’s 10nm are in the region of 55 million transistors per mm2, Intel is quoting over 100 million per mm2 with their 10nm (and using a new transistor counting methodology).

Intel quoted a 25% better performance and 45% lower power than 14nm, though failed to declare if that was 14nm, 14+, or 14++. Intel also stated that the optimized version of 10nm, 10++, will boost performance 15% or reduce power by 30% from 10nm. Intel’s Custom Foundry business, which will start on 10nm, is offering customers two design platforms on the new technology: 10GP (general purpose) and 10HPM (high performance mobile), with validated IP portfolios to include ARM libraries and POP kits and turnkey services. Intel has yet to announce a major partner in its custom foundry business, and other media outlets are reporting that some major partners that had signed up are now looking elsewhere.

Earlier this year Intel stated that its own first 10nm products would be aiming at the data center first (it has since been clarified that Intel was discussing 10nm++). At the time it was a little confusing, given Intel’s delayed cadence with typical data center products. However, since Intel acquired Altera, it seems appropriate that FPGAs would be the perfect fit here. Large-scale FPGAs, due to their regular repeating units, can take advantage of the smaller manufacturing process and still return reasonable yields by disabling individual gate arrays with defects and appropriate binning. Intel’s next generation of FPGAs will use 10nm, and they will go by the codename “Falcon Mesa”.

Falcon Mesa will encompass multiple technologies, most noticeably Intel’s second generation of their Embedded Multi-Die Interconnect Bridge (EMIB) packaging. This technology embeds the package with additional silicon substrates, providing a connection between separate active silicon parts much faster than standard packaging methods and much cheaper than using full-blown interposers. The result is a monolithic FPGA in the package, surrounded by memory or IP blocks, perhaps created at a different process node, but all using high-bandwidth EMIB for communication. On a similar theme, Falcon Mesa will also include support for next-generation HBM.

Among the IP blocks that can be embedded via EMIB with the new FPGAs, Intel lists both 112 Gbps serial transceiver links as well as PCIe 4.0 x16 connectivity, with support for data rates up to 16 GT/s per lane for future data center connectivity. This was discussed at the recent Hot Chips conference, in a talk I’d like to get some time to expand in a written piece.

No additional information was released regarding 10nm products for consumer devices.

Additional: 1:00pm September 19th
After doing some digging, we have come across several shots of the wafer up close.

This is from the presentational display. Detail is very hard to make out at the highest resolution we can find this image.

Additional: 1:20pm September 19th
Intel has also now put the presentation up on the website, which gives us this close-up:

Surprisingly, this wafer looks completely bare. Either this is simply a 300mm wafer before production, or Intel have covered the wafer on purpose with a reflective material to stop prying eyes. It's a very odd series of events, as Intel did have other wafers at the event, including 10nm using ARM, and examples of the new 22FFL process.

Additional: 3:00pm September 20th
Intel got back to us with a more detailed Cannon Lake image, clearly showing the separate dies:

Manual counting puts the wafer at around 36 dies across and 35 dies down, which leads to a die size of around 8.2 mm by 8.6 mm, or ~70.5 mm2 per die. At that size, it would suggest we are likely looking at a base dual-core die with graphics: Intel's first 14nm chips in a 2+2 configuration, Broadwell-U, were 82 mm2, so it is likely that we are seeing a 2+2 configuration as well. At that size, we're looking at around 850 dies per wafer.

 

[aldaia]

Intel just showed a 10nm wafer of CanonLake chips.

Edit: Ian just tweeted that Intel confirmed that CanonLake is in schedule to be launched this year

https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/910583388704329728

As I said it's just rumor so far, however, neither showcasing a wafer, nor intel stating it's not delayed, mean it's not true.

On September 10, 2013, Intel showcased the Broadwell 14 nm processor in a demonstration at IDF. The Ultrabook based on Intel's 14nm "Broadwell" microarchitecture was "fully operational".

Intel also confirmed that the chips would ship by the end of 2013.

We all know how it ended, first broadwell product delayed till late 2014, desktop product delayed till mid 2015

 

[juanrga]

So far as I know, the roadmap is

2017:
mobile --> Cannonlake (10nm)
desktop --> CoffeLake (14nm++)

2018:
mobile --> Icelake (10nm+)
desktop --> Icelake (10nm+)

 

[jaymc]

Intel just showed a 10nm wafer of CanonLake chips.

Edit: Ian just tweeted that Intel confirmed that CanonLake is in schedule to be launched this year

https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/910583388704329728

As I said it's just rumor so far, however, neither showcasing a wafer, nor intel stating it's not delayed, mean it's not true.

On September 10, 2013, Intel showcased the Broadwell 14 nm processor in a demonstration at IDF. The Ultrabook based on Intel's 14nm "Broadwell" microarchitecture was "fully operational".

Intel also confirmed that the chips would ship by the end of 2013.

We all know how it ended, first broadwell product delayed till late 2014, desktop product delayed till mid 2015

Sorry Jaun you said:
"Edit: Ian just tweeted that Intel confirmed that CanonLake is in schedule to be launched this year"

That is not what it say's in the tweet at all...it say's:
"Intel said shipping in consumer devices by end-of-year. They reiterated that last financial call"

Last financial call thats old news not a fresh confirmation from Intel today like you stated it was !

Furthermore underneath that Ian states:
"No-one publicly knows what yields/limitations are."

Which I guess mean they could release a product with a very small yield an is impossible to get.. "paper launch"

The digitimes article is dated today !

An I'm not sure when intel's last financial call was but it's defo not a fresh commitment from them today or even close for that matter...

 

[goldstone77]

 

[adamsleath]

"mix and match heterogeneous design"
gee wiz that looks clever...maybe a good way to improve yields?

 

[aldaia]

That is not what it say's in the tweet at all...it say's:
"Intel said shipping in consumer devices by end-of-year. They reiterated that last financial call"

You are right, he is just reporting old news. I wrongly interpreted the tweet as if Intel had told him so now. But a proper reading suggests that Intel has not denied the rumor yet.

 

[aldaia]

Despite what offical reoadmaps say (we all know roadmaps are broken more often than not) here there is annother article dated sept 12 that anticipated the rumor:
http://www.techradar.com/news/intel-coffee-lake-release-date-news-and-rumors

For now, it’s unclear when we’ll see Intel’s desktop-class Coffee Lake processors, though we do know that the company’s 10nm die shrink, code-named ‘Cannonlake’ is set for 2018 at the earliest, and the aforementioned, 10nm+ Ice Lake won’t be here until at least 2019.

2018 at the earliest sugests it could even slip to early 2019, which is in line with the late 2018 rumors.
Same with icelake "until at least 2019" means it can also slip into early 2020

 

[adamsleath]

bollox. coffee lake on the desktop is slated for launch October 2017. & cannonlake mobile chips are already in production.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/intel/intel-14nm-coffee-lake-release-date

http://www.dailytech.com/Intel+Coffee+Lake+release+date/article42624.htm

surely this has been posted already ?

 

[goldstone77]

Prices of Intel’s Coffee Lake-S CPUs Published: $400 for Core i7-8700K?
by Anton Shilov on September 19, 2017 11:00 AM EST

An online retailer in the UK has started to take pre-orders on Intel’s upcoming Coffee Lake CPUs, specifically the socketed 'S' parts for desktop computers. As reported previously, the new processors will have more cores than their direct predecessors, but if the published pre-order prices are correct (and are not inflated because of their pre-order nature) then Intel’s new chips will also have higher MSRPs than the company’s existing products.

Lambda-Tek, the UK retailer, is currently taking pre-orders on six Coffee Lake CPUs which are expected to hit the market in the coming weeks. The CPUs in question are the Core i7-8700K, the Core i7-8700, the Core i5-8600K, the Core i5-8400, the Core i3-8350K, and the Core i3-8100. Each segment will get an upgrade over the previous generation in core counts: the Core i7 parts will run in a 6C/12T configuration, the Core i5 parts will be 6C/6T, and the Core i3 parts will be 4C/4T (similar to the old Core i5). The flip side of this is that, if data from the retailer is correct, each element of the stack will cost quite a bit more than their direct predecessors.

For example, the store charges nearly £354 for the Core i7-8700K, which converted to USD (and without tax) equals to around $400. This will be a substantial uptick in cost over the $340 that the Core i7-7700K retails for today. $400 may be too high for Intel's top mainstream CPU, as Intel sells its six-core Core i7-7800X for $375. The HEDT requires a more expensive X299 motherboard and an appropriate DRAM kit, but might have an overall build cost similar to the $400 part.

The new quad-core Core i3 products will also get more expensive than their predecessors, with the calculated US price taken from the UK retailer coming to nearly $200 for the Core i3-8350K, up from $180. The per-core price will drop, which is perhaps not surprising, but the alleged price hike would put the Core i3 SKUs deeper into the Core i5 territory (the Core i3-7350K is already in the $190 ballpark), which will make it harder for many people to choose between different new i3 and older i5 models.

* UK prices, listed online, are always quoted with 20% sales tax included. US prices are typically listed without sales tax due to different tax rates in each state. Most of the world does not have this issue. Our UK prices are all taken from Lambda-Tek, US prices from Amazon on 9/15.
** Speeds of Coffee Lake CPUs have not been directly confirmed by Intel

If the pricing published by the UK retailer is correct, Intel will likely quote increased MSRPs. This would not the first time Intel has hiked prices of its mainstream parts: For example, Intel boosted the price of the Core i7-4770K to $339, up from $313 for the Core i7-3770K in 2013. The company did the same for the Core i5-4670K: it was priced at $242, up from $212 for the Core i5-3570K.

Increases and decreases of mainstream CPU MSRPs are not extraordinary events. Companies have different costs for different parts (because of different die sizes, yields, and other factors) and in a bid to maintain profit margins, they fluctuate prices. Since Coffee Lake chips are bigger than their predecessors because of the higher core count, it is logical for Intel to rise their MSRPs. However, the competitive landscape on today’s CPU market is different than it was from 2011 to 2016 as Intel could have to target AMD’s Ryzen in performance per dollar.

 

[goldstone77]

The i3-8350K and the i5-8600K still offer a discount in terms of the price per core. Like I said before the i5-8600K will likely be the new go to processor for gamers. 6 core 6 threads is what has been needed for about the last 3 years.

 

[juanrga]

Even if I trust those numbers he gives. We have double the number of cores by $10 extra (8% more) on the new i3 models and 50% moar cores (plus higher clocks) by $40 extra (10%) on the new i7 modes.

But I have some difficulties to believe those numbers, $400 for the i7-8700k? I can purchase it for less than that

https://www.bm.lv/en/intel-core-i7-8700k-hexa-core-370ghz-12mb-lga1151-14nm-box-bx80684i78700k

Without VAT it is 302€ = $359

which is about the same pricing than current i7-7770k.

 

[YoAndy]

I don't think there is much difference between The 8700K and the 7800X(other than the platform). For my new PC Build (happening soon), I'm between those 2 or the 7820X.

 

[goldstone77]

Spoiler

Even if I trust those numbers he gives. We have double the number of cores by $10 extra (8% more) on the new i3 models and 50% moar cores (plus higher clocks) by $40 extra (10%) on the new i7 modes.

But I have some difficulties to believe those numbers, $400 for the i7-8700k? I can purchase it for less than that

https://www.bm.lv/en/intel-core-i7-8700k-hexa-core-370ghz-12mb-lga1151-14nm-box-bx80684i78700k

Without VAT it is 302€ = $359

which is about the same pricing than current i7-7770k.

Like with anything until it's released everything is just a rumor. The wording on the last slide says specifications and prices have not been confirmed.

 

[goldstone77]

I don't think there is much difference between The 8700K and the 7800X(other than the platform). For my new PC Build (happening soon), I'm between those 2 or the 7820X.

I would go with the cheapest route that offers the best performance for your application, if you intend to upgrade motherboard, CPU, RAM in the next 5-7 years. With the continuing advancement of VR/AR ~10 years everyone will most likely be moving to VR/AR glasses as daily wearable computer and cell phone all in one.

 

[YoAndy]

I don't think there is much difference between The 8700K and the 7800X(other than the platform). For my new PC Build (happening soon), I'm between those 2 or the 7820X.

I would go with the cheapest route that offers the best performance for your application, if you intend to upgrade motherboard, CPU, RAM in the next 5-7 years. With the continuing advancement of VR/AR ~10 years everyone will most likely be moving to VR/AR glasses as daily wearable computer and cell phone all in one.

That's the plan at least get 5-7 good years out of it.

 

[goldstone77]

I don't think there is much difference between The 8700K and the 7800X(other than the platform). For my new PC Build (happening soon), I'm between those 2 or the 7820X.

I would go with the cheapest route that offers the best performance for your application, if you intend to upgrade motherboard, CPU, RAM in the next 5-7 years. With the continuing advancement of VR/AR ~10 years everyone will most likely be moving to VR/AR glasses as daily wearable computer and cell phone all in one.

That's the plan at least get 5-7 good years out of it.

Normally, I would recommend waiting till 10nm/7nm since it's so close. It might be the last desktop computer you buy if VR/AR continues the way it's heading. But if you are set on upgrading now I would definitely go with coffee lake 6 core. It will still be very good for at least 5-7 years.

 

[-Fran-]

Normally, I would recommend waiting till 10nm/7nm since it's so close. It might be the last desktop computer you buy if VR/AR continues the way it's heading. But if you are set on upgrading now I would definitely go with coffee lake 6 core. It will still be very good for at least 5-7 years.

I would not say a year's time "is close", but I will agree on "waiting a bit". The i7 8600K might actually be a very disruptive (in a good way) introduction to the CPU party and it's supposed to arrive by the end of this year or start of next. So that is definitely worth a wait, specially if you're not under pressure to swap PCs.

Cheers!

 

[YoAndy]

Normally, I would recommend waiting till 10nm/7nm since it's so close. It might be the last desktop computer you buy if VR/AR continues the way it's heading. But if you are set on upgrading now I would definitely go with coffee lake 6 core. It will still be very good for at least 5-7 years.

I would not say a year's time "is close", but I will agree on "waiting a bit". The i7 8600K might actually be a very disruptive (in a good way) introduction to the CPU party and it's supposed to arrive by the end of this year or start of next. So that is definitely worth a wait, specially if you're not under pressure to swap PCs.

Cheers!

I hate all the rumors about intel's new release being held back till the end of 2018. I'm really set on the 7800X or maybe the 7820X but a new product should bring more competition and may lower the prices a bit. We all love competition but this is crazy lol

 

[goldstone77]

Normally, I would recommend waiting till 10nm/7nm since it's so close. It might be the last desktop computer you buy if VR/AR continues the way it's heading. But if you are set on upgrading now I would definitely go with coffee lake 6 core. It will still be very good for at least 5-7 years.

I would not say a year's time "is close", but I will agree on "waiting a bit". The i7 8600K might actually be a very disruptive (in a good way) introduction to the CPU party and it's supposed to arrive by the end of this year or start of next. So that is definitely worth a wait, specially if you're not under pressure to swap PCs.

Cheers!

I hate all the rumors about intel's new release being held back till the end of 2018. I'm really set between the 7800X and the 7820X but a new product should bring more competition and may lower the prices a bit.

Usually, if rumors like that aren't true we would see a press release from Intel about it within a day to a week. This makes the 3rd delay if the rumors are true. Back on the 11th Charlie talked about Intel's 10nm problems before the latest rumors.
SemiAccurate digs out Intel’s 10nm process problems
Note the plural
Sep 11, 2017 by Charlie Demerjian

 

[-Fran-]

But the first 6C/12T parts (i7 8700K?) for the mainstream platform are not going to be using 10nm, right? I thought they were going to be in 14nm++++++++ or whatever it's the name, but 14nm by the end of this year and the 10nm parts would be 8C/16T for mainstream with Ice Lake?

I got confused yet again.

Cheers!

 

[goldstone77]

Like Yuka said, who can keep track of all these rumors... Lack of clear communication from Intel doesn't help.

 

[YoAndy]

That's why I'm going all crazy