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Ambictus
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- Mar 9, 2009
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[citation][nom]wavebossa[/nom]You are talking about a coded feature like if it was the transmission in car, lmao. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, those rules do not apply whatsoever...You cant buy a book and say that "this work is mine, therefore it should be legal for me to plagerize it!"[/citation]
Umm... You do realize how dumb of an analogy that was right?
Cause loading Linux is the same as stealing code/copyright? What?
Umm... You do realize how dumb of an analogy that was right?
Cause loading Linux is the same as stealing code/copyright? What?
[citation][nom]Ambictus[/nom]Umm... You do realize how dumb of an analogy that was right?Cause loading Linux is the same as stealing code/copyright? What?[/citation]
Not sure you could have misunderstood me more if you tried... But i'll explain anyway.
I'm saying, you dont own the features in a PS3 the same way you dont own the words in a book or the coding in windows.
IF sony wants to remove them, its up to them not you. Understand now? Good!
Not sure you could have misunderstood me more if you tried... But i'll explain anyway.
I'm saying, you dont own the features in a PS3 the same way you dont own the words in a book or the coding in windows.
IF sony wants to remove them, its up to them not you. Understand now? Good!
Ambictus
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[citation][nom]wavebossa[/nom]Not sure you could have misunderstood me more if you tried... But i'll explain anyway.I'm saying, you dont own the features in a PS3 the same way you dont own the words in a book or the coding in windows.IF sony wants to remove them, its up to them not you. Understand now? Good![/citation]
Makes perfect sense. Your analogy of thievery means Sony has the right to modify their own code... got it! Still not sure what was being stolen but you make a solid point. Thumbs up my friend.
Though my understanding has nothing to do with thievery. It has to do with wanting to utilize the hardware we purchased to load on freely available and legal software. Not exactly a stretch for most but whatever.
Oh, and I'm not sure how it's hurting Sony's bottom line. But once again since you said it did I'll take it as law.
Makes perfect sense. Your analogy of thievery means Sony has the right to modify their own code... got it! Still not sure what was being stolen but you make a solid point. Thumbs up my friend.
Though my understanding has nothing to do with thievery. It has to do with wanting to utilize the hardware we purchased to load on freely available and legal software. Not exactly a stretch for most but whatever.
Oh, and I'm not sure how it's hurting Sony's bottom line. But once again since you said it did I'll take it as law.
@ ambictus
Let me be clear, I'm not saying I like or dislike what Sony did at all. It may seem that way due to my earlier postings, but those were more directed at people who think sony is now somehow evil for this -.-
All I am saying is that they can remove the feature if they want. If this Geohot guy wants to make a workaround, by all means try!
And the bottomline remark was more directed at a business making a business decision. I sincerely doubt sony is losing any money off of this, but I just think a company can do what it pleases with its product.
And i never like coming off mean to people, so i apologize if i did.
Let me be clear, I'm not saying I like or dislike what Sony did at all. It may seem that way due to my earlier postings, but those were more directed at people who think sony is now somehow evil for this -.-
All I am saying is that they can remove the feature if they want. If this Geohot guy wants to make a workaround, by all means try!
And the bottomline remark was more directed at a business making a business decision. I sincerely doubt sony is losing any money off of this, but I just think a company can do what it pleases with its product.
And i never like coming off mean to people, so i apologize if i did.
orionantares
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- Jan 30, 2010
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The people that actually have online stuff they want to play and still want a linux PS3 could buy one of the PS3 slims for that purpose. Last I'd checked, not that long ago, even with the increased material efficiency of the PS3 slim redesign Sony is still losing money on the hardware itself and only really making money on game sales right now. It may inflate their unit sale stats but it is an option for those that want to continue using a linux PS3 and buying a product they are selling at a lose is a small way to hit back at them.
The Greater Good
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- Jan 14, 2010
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[citation][nom]OvrClkr[/nom]Having Linux ona a PS3 was/is a luxury, Sony never said that they would fully support it so for all you PS3 junkies that cannot live without Linux, there is something called a PC, build one install Linux and stop complaining, lol..[/citation]
Then... why did Sony sell it as a feature? If any company sold me a device that could do one thing at the time of purchase then took away said feature... I'd be mad.
Many are saying this is "no big deal." That's BS, it IS a big deal because Sony is taking away something you paid for.
Then... why did Sony sell it as a feature? If any company sold me a device that could do one thing at the time of purchase then took away said feature... I'd be mad.
Many are saying this is "no big deal." That's BS, it IS a big deal because Sony is taking away something you paid for.
[citation][nom]killerclick[/nom]I'm sure that strictly speaking Sony has the legal right to remove this feature but it's still a dick move. Anyway, it's going to get hacked and Sony can suck on it so who cares...[/citation]
It very well may be. But the question Sony is asking themselves is, "will we lose costumers for disabling this?" And i bet the answer is no.
It very well may be. But the question Sony is asking themselves is, "will we lose costumers for disabling this?" And i bet the answer is no.
I hope to see full access to the ps3 hardware gpu and ram in Linux.
That would make is so much faster and when the gpu gets a driver I bet it will be able crunch some real numbers and even play decent games in linux.
It be nice to see what RSX can do for acceleration right now the Mesa3d project is using the spu's
and the spu's not designed for the task of 3D acceleration so far quake 3 will run at low frame rate low rez
if the ps3 hypervisor wasn't blocking the RSX quake 3 would run perfect probably after being optimized a good 300 fps or more.
That would make is so much faster and when the gpu gets a driver I bet it will be able crunch some real numbers and even play decent games in linux.
It be nice to see what RSX can do for acceleration right now the Mesa3d project is using the spu's
and the spu's not designed for the task of 3D acceleration so far quake 3 will run at low frame rate low rez
if the ps3 hypervisor wasn't blocking the RSX quake 3 would run perfect probably after being optimized a good 300 fps or more.
I find it's sad that Sony decided to remove this feature, but understandable. If this leads to game piracy, Sony will loose out on game income, paired with selling millions of console at a loss. I would of done the same thing. From the US Playstation Blog : ''will help ensure that PS3 owners will continue to have access to the broad range of gaming and entertainment content from SCE and its content partners'' From reading this , probably some partners demanded the feature be removed to protect their investments. Because piracy on the PS3 doesn't only affect Sony's pocket but companies that make games and movies. In my opinion, the only way Sony could get away without hangrying too much the people that use the otheros feature, would be to remove the feature, but implement a Linux OS, that they helped develop. So people would only have the flavor of Linux Sony decides. But they could make people happy by allowing the full power of the PS3 ( all the SPU's , the GPU , etc.) to bu used fully, with some sort of ReadyBoost feature like in Microsoft OS, to help with the low amount of ram the system as. Like this Sony takes care of the piracy problem , Linux on the ps3 users are pleased, and it defeats the publicaly stated saying of several, that they're hacking the PS3 to take full advantge of the hardware on the otheros side.
Just my tought.
Just my tought.
I simply am not bothered by Sony, there is always a way around and Mr Hotz will find it.
Keep hacking away Hotz
Keep hacking away Hotz
hakesterman
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- Oct 6, 2008
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You have to update the software if you want to go online, it forces you to upgrade the Firmware. I would highly not recommend hacking your PS3. Sony will likely monitor the trafic going to their online store and they may decide to do what Microsoft did and Ban your system from Online if it has Linux on it. Linux is a waist anyway so why would you want to risk online play and downloads for it???
anamaniac
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- Jan 7, 2009
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This makes me all fuzzy and warm inside.
I have full intent to pay for games still, but Sony, you have to realize the potential of the machine. Unlock the GPU and find a way to switch out the current RAM chips for new ones (since the XDR RAM isn't just a stick), and this could easily be a full blown desktop computer.
Keep up the good fight. In the end, I hope it's the people who win.
I somewhat understand Sony's point, but they have to realize ours, you can't simply give us a taste and then take it away if we liked it.
It's not like IBM sells their processors at reasonable rates at all.
I have full intent to pay for games still, but Sony, you have to realize the potential of the machine. Unlock the GPU and find a way to switch out the current RAM chips for new ones (since the XDR RAM isn't just a stick), and this could easily be a full blown desktop computer.
Keep up the good fight. In the end, I hope it's the people who win.
I somewhat understand Sony's point, but they have to realize ours, you can't simply give us a taste and then take it away if we liked it.
It's not like IBM sells their processors at reasonable rates at all.
wavebossa,
you are a fool.
OtherOS is a feature, not an exploit. You can't ethically sell a product touting a feature, and then remove that feature after you have sold the product. Sony is certainly within their legal rights to do this, but that does not make it ok. If they want to sell all new PS3s with this feature disabled, and made it clear when you purchase that it is disabled, that would be a different issue.
What if tomorrow Sony decided they no longer want to allow you to play games, and pushed a fireware update which prevented you from playing games. Would that be ok with you? OtherOS is a feature just like playing games is a feature.
The fact that Sony has not provided a legitimate reason why they would do this is most irksome. How is a it a security risk to allow a PS3 to run linux?
you are a fool.
OtherOS is a feature, not an exploit. You can't ethically sell a product touting a feature, and then remove that feature after you have sold the product. Sony is certainly within their legal rights to do this, but that does not make it ok. If they want to sell all new PS3s with this feature disabled, and made it clear when you purchase that it is disabled, that would be a different issue.
What if tomorrow Sony decided they no longer want to allow you to play games, and pushed a fireware update which prevented you from playing games. Would that be ok with you? OtherOS is a feature just like playing games is a feature.
The fact that Sony has not provided a legitimate reason why they would do this is most irksome. How is a it a security risk to allow a PS3 to run linux?
waikano
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- Feb 13, 2008
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Hacking isn't pirating....perfect opportunity to remind people. http://db.glug-bom.org/lug-authors/philip/docs/hackers-not-crackers.html
[citation][nom]hakesterman[/nom]You have to update the software if you want to go online, it forces you to upgrade the Firmware. I would highly not recommend hacking your PS3. Sony will likely monitor the trafic going to their online store and they may decide to do what Microsoft did and Ban your system from Online if it has Linux on it. Linux is a waist anyway so why would you want to risk online play and downloads for it???[/citation]
Linux is a waste for you maybe, its the only reason why I bought a PS3. All you people who do not run linux on your PS3 should stop posting.
Linux is a waste for you maybe, its the only reason why I bought a PS3. All you people who do not run linux on your PS3 should stop posting.
rockinthepe
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- May 21, 2009
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[citation][nom]wavebossa[/nom]You are talking about a coded feature like if it was the transmission in car, lmao. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, those rules do not apply whatsoever...[/citation]
kinda disorganized and poorly structured sorry in advance.
@
alright I'll humor you. the point i was trying to make was that a portion of the owners of PS3's bought their council with knowledge that they could run Linux off of their council. if i were to buy a Camaro it would be due to the knowledge that it would be a speedy car to drive (nothing compared to a far lighter car with similar power-train but still speedy none the less). If the Camaro was limited topspeed was limited to around 60 mph, i would buy a different automobile. reading several pages of the over 50 pages of comments on the sony press release I read that the ability or run linux was a deciding factor in portion of the owners decision to buy a ps3. I've only taken the necessary c++ course (yes only one so far, more to come later though) that has been required for mechanical engineering so i'm by no means an expert, but it seems like sony went out of their way to write code to disable these features a little over 3 years after the council's release.
OF course i understand that plagiarism is wrong and that buying a book does not give you the right to claim that work as your own. a gaming council is not a book though. if Linux was a selling point for users as it appears to have been, sony will rip off those who purchased a PS3 for its otheros feature. selling a legitimate customer something other than what was advertised or supported sounds like a con to me.
seperate idea:
An author can't come to your house and rip out chapters of a book because he's angry about how they turned out 3 years after it's been published. this is what sony is doing.
kinda related to idea above:
i don't know the end user agreement so i'm not going to say that sony is contractually obliged to update firmware to keep Blu-rays and sony games working, but if they aren't and for some reason stopped wouldn't they cease to be able to make money on the system?
kinda disorganized and poorly structured sorry in advance.
@
alright I'll humor you. the point i was trying to make was that a portion of the owners of PS3's bought their council with knowledge that they could run Linux off of their council. if i were to buy a Camaro it would be due to the knowledge that it would be a speedy car to drive (nothing compared to a far lighter car with similar power-train but still speedy none the less). If the Camaro was limited topspeed was limited to around 60 mph, i would buy a different automobile. reading several pages of the over 50 pages of comments on the sony press release I read that the ability or run linux was a deciding factor in portion of the owners decision to buy a ps3. I've only taken the necessary c++ course (yes only one so far, more to come later though) that has been required for mechanical engineering so i'm by no means an expert, but it seems like sony went out of their way to write code to disable these features a little over 3 years after the council's release.
OF course i understand that plagiarism is wrong and that buying a book does not give you the right to claim that work as your own. a gaming council is not a book though. if Linux was a selling point for users as it appears to have been, sony will rip off those who purchased a PS3 for its otheros feature. selling a legitimate customer something other than what was advertised or supported sounds like a con to me.
seperate idea:
An author can't come to your house and rip out chapters of a book because he's angry about how they turned out 3 years after it's been published. this is what sony is doing.
kinda related to idea above:
i don't know the end user agreement so i'm not going to say that sony is contractually obliged to update firmware to keep Blu-rays and sony games working, but if they aren't and for some reason stopped wouldn't they cease to be able to make money on the system?
Silicon Jesus
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- Dec 12, 2009
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I appreciate GeoHot's work and I don't blame him for any of this. When a hacker finds a security flaw, he lets the mfg know and they fix it. That's how disclosure makes more secure products. The hackers who disclose flaws are the good ones. It's SONY who is the problem, removing an entire piece of functionality instead of a) making it right the first time (but there will always be bugs) or b) fixing the underlying issue (the appropriate response.) Sony's decision to use a machete instead of a scalpel is reflective of some profit maximization formula in which it is more profitable to invest as little money as possible in non-value adding processes. Because fixing such a flaw will not result in increased sales, Sony is trying to minimize the resources they spend on fixing some obscure exploit vector.
I wish GeoHot luck, but I think he's got his work cut out for him.
I wish GeoHot luck, but I think he's got his work cut out for him.
counselmancl
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- Nov 10, 2009
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Illegal no, unethical ya it is. Anybody that thinks otherwise is simply a sony fanboy peroid. It's not that there just not supporting it anymore. Their removing something, and for no good reason which is even worse.
But this could be a good thing for the pirates. As this guy seems like he knows what he's doing, and isn't to happy about it. And might just do it to piss sony off now.
But this could be a good thing for the pirates. As this guy seems like he knows what he's doing, and isn't to happy about it. And might just do it to piss sony off now.
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