Is global warming running out of letters?

[riser]

Actually they don't really know if the ozone hole is shrinking or getting bigger. Last I saw they thought it was shrinking.

Water vapor being held in the atmopshere allows the sun to heat it up, causing release of whatever and thus degrading the ozone. It has been a naturally occuring thing long before we even noticed or understood it.

The ozone layer is approximately 3 feet thick and self-replenishing. CFCs are not 'absorbed' either as a CFC has a very, very long half life. UVC is absorbed.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I think it doesnt fit the model and is harder to accept.
The very lack of moisture in huge quantities shows the model is flawed, and yes, the debate is over

 

[chunkymonster]

It seems you are getting the greenhouse effect confused with the cycling of our ozone layer.

Not confusing anything, simply contributing to a debate that is far too complex for climatologists, AGW, and weather models to fully take into account any and all the possibilities that effect climate change let alone that no one has a complete understanding of how they are interrelated and how they effect each other.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I do know, if you say this is going to happen because of that, and it doesnt happen, then somethings wrong.
The entire setup from C02 relies upon much larger amounts of moisture in our atmosphere.
It simply isnt here, which means the excess Co2 isnt having the effect they claimed, not thought, claimed, belittled and held exclusive.
Every model they set up said it would happen, and it hasnt.
And if it ever had, the amount in the winter was the counter argument as to reflection back out, which still escapes in greater amounts with a wider area of land covered in snow.
It was an interesting fad, and I just heard the guy from NASA just up and quit, Hansen I believe


R]etirement will allow Dr. Hansen to press his cause in court. He plans to take a more active role in lawsuits challenging the federal and state governments over their failure to limit emissions, for instance, as well as in fighting the development in Canada of a particularly dirty form of oil extracted from tar sands.
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/01/james-hansen-is-leaving-nasa-to-intensify-his-campaign-for-carbon-cuts/

 

[johnsonma]

Atmospheric ozone is created by sunlight and destroyed or dissipated by chlorine, the vast majority of which comes from the ocean via natural evaporation and carried up into the upper atmosphere by the water vapor.

The amount our oceans contribute dwarfs what man produces or even has the ability to produce.

Do you have any research articles to backup the chlorine numbers? Everything I read says that we have contributed far more chlorine to the atmosphere than what is possible by natural processes on earth.

 

[johnsonma]

It seems you are getting the greenhouse effect confused with the cycling of our ozone layer.

Not confusing anything, simply contributing to a debate that is far too complex for climatologists, AGW, and weather models to fully take into account any and all the possibilities that effect climate change let alone that no one has a complete understanding of how they are interrelated and how they effect each other.

You can look at the satellite imagery over the years showing a continued decrease in the thickness of the ozone layer over the poles. Its not that hard to draw conclusions from that.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Ozone Layer No Longer Thinning
http://news.discovery.com/earth/ozone-layer-earth.htm
Our highjacked liberal government?
The aerosols from Mt. Pinatubo have disappeared, but satellite, ground-based, and balloon data still show ozone depletion occurring closer to the historic trend.
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/science/sc_fact.html

But here we find
But thanks to the Montreal Protocol—the 1987 international treaty that phased out ozone-depleting chemicals—the ozone layer has been on the mend for the past two decades.

But healing takes time, and the ozone layer is far from fixed. Today the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) warned that ozone over the Arctic had suffered record loss over this spring—in large part because of unusually cold temperatures in the Arctic stratosphere this winter, along with the continued impact of ozone-depleting chemicals. From the WMO:

Observations from the ground and from balloons over the Arctic region as well as from satellites show that the Arctic region has suffered an ozone column loss of about 40% from the beginning of the winter to late March. The highest ozone loss previously recorded was about 30% over the entire winter.

In Antarctica the so-called ozone hole is an annually recurring winter/spring phenomenon due to the existence of extremely low temperatures in the stratosphere. In the Arctic the meteorological conditions vary much more from one year to the next and the temperatures are always warmer than over Antarctica. Hence, some Arctic winters experience almost no ozone loss, whereas cold stratospheric temperatures in the Arctic lasting beyond the polar night can occasionally lead to substantial ozone loss.

Even though this Arctic winter was warmer than average at ground level, it was colder in the stratosphere than for a normal Arctic winter.



Read more: http://science.time.com/2011/04/05/oh-no-for-the-ozone%e2%80%94but-things-are-still-getting-better/#ixzz2Rz67t1et


So, it was colder down there in 2011, oh noes says the global warming folk, we have conflicting science here, or do we?
We do know ozone resides in the upper atmosphere, as does most of the C02, where the radiation thats reflected is trapped and thus warming occurs, but it hasnt since the ozone is depleted because of the cold, but it isnt that cold according to the global warming crowd.
Oh Oh, cant have both...which would mean, as witnessed by our northern pole, warmer air allows for a continued and less effected ozone layer.
I know some would like to have both here, but they do collide, these things called facts

Ultimately, we will find such greats as degrase tyson and the like believing in global warming as those that believed in the flat earth, and unlike some, most faith believers wont be saying, "oh thank goodness he didnt believe in God" heheh

 

[johnsonma]

Sounds like they were just talking themselves up.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/csd/assessments/ozone/1998/faq3.html

http://www.atmosphere.mpg.de/enid/209.html

If you can find me research that backs up what they say then I would be more inclined to believe them.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CFQQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coloradoan.com%2Farticle%2F20130430%2FNEWS01%2F304300013%2FSnow-in-Fort-Collins-expected-to-shatter-May-1-record&ei=0TeBUb7mJYi7ywG0y4CgBQ&usg=AFQjCNEKry1qkZQEtfSmimWy1cU9rYyPuw&sig2=mcDfLZ6a2B7MDpragiXeAQ&bvm=bv.45921128,d.aWc

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CEUQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2013%2F05%2F01%2Fus%2Fweather%2Findex.html&ei=0TeBUb7mJYi7ywG0y4CgBQ&usg=AFQjCNE1cFpnHWcvmgZxwAlVWkUM4ZJcGw&sig2=8GIMRYG67o56FbH4eCFC9w&bvm=bv.45921128,d.aWc

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDwQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kare11.com%2Fnews%2Farticle%2F1024027%2F391%2FWinter-Storm-in-May-Brace-for-it&ei=0TeBUb7mJYi7ywG0y4CgBQ&usg=AFQjCNHJc61ZtRZUDZKkuiGpvi9aC0VUaw&sig2=-DKzZjuxlQ_MakySFX7RgQ&bvm=bv.45921128,d.aWc

Record cold all over , possible snow in Texas, lakes still frozen over, this could be the Achilles heel for global warming

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Well, all time records are just tough to downplay, be it snowfall or temps.
Theyve cooked the numbers so far, itll be interesting how they smooth this one over.
They could also argue that the snow is in a very narrow band, but that implies lack of moisture, which is the opposite result of global warming where theres supposed to, no has to be much more moisture.
They could say this is an anomaly, just as certain years which at one point was in the top ten all time for heat, which has somehow mysteriously dissappeared twice off of their records, to uniformly fit their top ten.

If this were just a bad winter, they could smooth it over.
If this had ended in March, or April, if their werent snow in Texas so late, record amounts in many places.
If all this accumulated heat were supposed to have is here and even worse this year, which is their story, where is it?
If its concentrated in one area, which would then be an anomaly , it would have to contain the majority of all this heat, or else it just went away, and therefor illiminates their theory altogether.

I really believe this is the flat earthers of today

 

[riser]

Global warming is coming back. Previously known as Summer.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Was just reading about this, as they now have more info on it
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/archaeology/10022628/Lost-city-of-Heracleion-gives-up-its-secrets.html

Submerged under 150 feet of water, the site sits in what is now the Bay of Aboukir. In the 8th Century BC, when the city is thought to have been built, it would have sat at the mouth of the River Nile delta as it opened up into the Mediterranean.
Scientists still have little idea what caused the city to slip into the water nearly 1,000 years later, but it is thought that gradual sea level rise combined with a sudden collapse of the unstable sediment the city was built on caused the area to drop by around 12 feet.

The discovery is amazing, as is the fact its submerged 150 feet down, and they believe the earth there shifted 12 feet lower, leaving much to melting glaciers to further sink the city.
If it werent getting warmer, we wouldnt hve to dig and dive, but dig only, and as for tipping points, surely we will all fall off the face of the earth.
Anyways, an interesting find, especially from a Christians POV

 

[riser]

Now that is pretty dang cool. I was watching something on the Pyramids the other day.. The Red Pyramid if I recall was built close to the Nile and collapsed due to the foundation as well.

Interesting stuff. I wish they'd check out that spot where they think Atlantis was.. the underwater imaging proves a city was there, just which one?

And the part I like the most is that it again gives credit to Homer's storytelling.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Yea, and makes it harder to disprove.
Theres other connections as I alluded to in other writings going along with Homers tales

 

[johnsonma]

I have read that before. Reading through it again I still have a question I can't find the answer too. Does the "human production" of chlorine equate to the same amount released into the atmosphere? My ex-company manufactured many chlorine based products as you can imagine. Does that mean, that we released as much chlorine into the atmosphere at we produced? I don't think so.

In that study, are they equating total production to total human contribution of chlorine into the atmosphere? My point being, just because we are producing a lot of chlorine in our industrial processes, it doesn't mean the same amount is released And if it does, how do they measure that exactly without some big guesses/estimations?

The graph I think you are referring to is the composition of samples taken from the upper atmosphere. It's not an estimate of total production of chlorine, only the chlorine in the upper atmosphere that cannot be produced by natural processes.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Hold the Mayo, Rochester is a winter wonderland
http://www.kttc.com/

 

[johnsonma]

I can't seem to find how they measure or compare what we produce vs. how much actually makes it into the atmosphere. We can measure the current content of the atmosphere and the changes but what or who the contributors are is just best guest/estimate, yes?

The reason that they know what percentage is man-made is because there are different types of chlorine molecules in the atmosphere. Some of which can be created by natural processes and some of which can only be produced by us.

 

[riser]

I liked the cow farts causing global warming argument better.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Well, you have to start somewheres, if you could believe that........

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Another " oh noes, were sailing off the edge" "the argument is over" "these other contributions mean nothing" indoctrinational fact:
"As you measure the high and low daily temperatures each year, it normally becomes more difficult to break a record after a number of years. But as the average temperatures continue to rise this century, we will keep setting more record highs."
"One of the messages of this study is that you still get cold days," Meehl says. "Winter still comes. Even in a much warmer climate, we're setting record low minimum temperatures on a few days each year. But the odds are shifting so there's a much better chance of daily record highs instead of lows."
The modeling results indicate that if nations continue to increase their emissions of greenhouse gases in a "business as usual" scenario, the U.S. ratio of daily record high to record low temperatures would increase to about 20-to-1 by mid-century and 50-to-1 by 2100. The mid-century ratio could be much higher if emissions rose at an even greater pace, or it could be about 8-to-1 if emissions were reduced significantly, the model showed.
The study also found that the two-to-one ratio across the country as a whole could be attributed more to a comparatively small number of record lows than to a large number of record highs. This indicates that much of the nation's warming is occurring at night, when temperatures are dipping less often to record lows. This finding is consistent with years of climate model research showing that higher overnight lows should be expected with climate change.
https://www2.ucar.edu/atmosnews/news/1036/record-high-temperatures-far-outpace-record-lows-across-us

Yes, those record lows come stealing in the night, when everyone is sleeping.
This drama, this fuzzy explanation, the year of these claims was under their prediction for the entire decade.
Just remember all you global warmers out there, take care when sailing our mother, on her oceans, you may sail out too far and be snared by a dragon, yes, a frost dragon

 

[johnsonma]

The point they were making in the article is the fact that there continues to be a higher discrepancy between record highs and record lows. They attribute it more towards the fact that there are less records lows occurring. In other words there are less record lows occurring and slightly more record highs which is driving the growing ratio.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean a dragon did it. Everyone knows that at the end of the world the kraken gets you anyways.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

If you look, they do two readings for record highs, one for night time, and one for day time.
On the cold, they just do the record cold, which most often occurs at night.
A small way to cook the books.
This year is a year where this trend ends.
Also, what do you think, they have more stations in populated areas, or non populated areas?
Which do you think on average is warmer?
Using a higher number of variables which are again slanted towards the warm end will yield more numbers.
Also, snowing occurs not because its record lows, as the air isnt so stable, where record lows are often set, no so with warmth, yet many lows were set and snowing.
This by itself should get someones attention, if theyre honest that is.

This is undeniable as many of these places had never seen snow in May, yet it wasnt the coldest record.
If it were calm, many a record would have been set.
This brings us around to why then did it happen?
The anomoly of it being cold, and this cold, as we continue to set thousands of records here in Minnesota alone as I write this, shows their ideas and theories incorrect, and the ice is still on thousands of lakes here, all all time records.
I still see snow in the shade here, a foot deep in spots.
Same in Wisconsin and Michigan.
If you read where they said it would be extremely more and more rare for any cold records again goes against their ideas

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

As to their dragon and their cliff, theyre teetering now, almost about to fall with their theory orff the sides of the planet.
Its funny how they claim meteorologists dont understand them as well, yes too hard to grasp, as they change the name, then the events, then the possibilities, yes, we simply dont understand
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/ice_out/index.html

 

[johnsonma]

As to their dragon and their cliff, theyre teetering now, almost about to fall with their theory orff the sides of the planet.
Its funny how they claim meteorologists dont understand them as well, yes too hard to grasp, as they change the name, then the events, then the possibilities, yes, we simply dont understand
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/ice_out/index.html

This is where your reasoning falls apart. You single out a single state, in one country, in the entire world that stays colder for one year and use that as a reasoning to debunk decades of research. For every single article you post I could post 20 to counter it. The evidence is overwhelming, yet somehow you debunk all of it with a singular piece of evidence that cannot be backed up by years of research.

I know its hard to imagine but certain climates can be affected by other climates. You have to look at the whole picture.

Would you judge a colony of ants based off a single ant? Would you judge country by an individual? Would you judge an equation by one variable?

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

So Colorado is normal?
Wyoming normal?
Iowa normal?
Nebraska normal?
Missouri normal?
Kansas normal?
Plus the above mentioned wisc and mich.
Never snow ever in May in Arkansas.
All time records, KC, Omaha the list goes an and on, but yep, be like they are, discredit everything else.
They cling to one thing, its politically motivated, taken in by various governments and their particular pols of a given ilk.
Wonder how 40s in Georgia feels to them?
Then we can talk about Europe, Asia etc.
This isnt a small little we can overlook this one, its more a damning proof of how poorly they themselves understand whats going on