[SOLVED] Is my PSU the problem?

[BenPCNoob]

Hi Guys,

I have a collection of strange problems which I think could be related to the PSU.

1. When the GPU is under load, the RGB starts to intermittently, but rapidly change colours. In a game; I can literally cycle through the presents (low to v high) and at some point the RGB problem will start. I suspect that when the GPU is drawing more power, it causes a voltage drop in the system and this causes the RGB to malfunction. This has been occurring for some time, and has got worse.

2. I will get random USB disconnects and reconnects (the windows sound will play), this is quite rare but has happened consistently over time. If it happens to the wireless dongle I will disconnect from the internet so the disconnects are real.

3. Yesterday, I came back to my computer and it had shutdown and loaded into the BIOS settings, I didn't see what happened. The SSD was not detected, I re-seated it and fortunately it worked (this is probably unrelated).

My system is:
Asus Dual RTX 3070
Ryzen 2700X
2 x 16Gb 3200Mhz Vengeance Corsair RAM (running at 2933MHz)
512Mb Corsair SSD
Prime B450M-A

PSU: Corsair CV650

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

 

[Aeacus]

While your PSU isn't the best one and i, personally, wouldn't use it in any build, the symptoms you describe point towards MoBo and/or OS issues (2nd and 3rd issue).

If your build would be mine, 1st i'd buy new PSU, Seasonic Focus or preferably PRIME series, in 750W range, just to be safe.
2nd step, when issues are still present, is to make clean OS install. It's easier and faster to reinstall OS than trying to find that needle in a haystack which causes those issues.
If issues aren't fixed even with clean OS install, i'd be looking towards MoBo replacement. Either the same make and model, or switch brands and go with something else.

 

[Ralston18]

There are many things you can do:

Start by looking in Reliability History and Event Viewer for error codes, warnings, or even informational events that you can associate with the problems that have occurred.

Reliability History is much more user friendly and uses a time line format that can be very revealing. Clicking any given entry will provide more detail. However that detail may or may not be helpful.

You can also run the built-in Windows troubleshooters. The trouble shooters may find or fix something.

File corruption could be involved: use "sfc /scannow" and "dism" to look for and fix such problems.

References:

https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-use-sfc-scannow-to-repair-windows-system-files-2626161

Fix Windows Update errors via DISM or System Update Readiness tool - Windows Server | Microsoft Docs

Lastly:

Power down, unplug, open the case.

Clean out dust and debris.

Verify by sight and feel that all connectors, cards, RAM, and jumpers are fully and firmly seated.

Use a bright light to inspect for signs of damage: bare conductor showing, melted insulation, kinked or pinched wires, browned or blackened areas/components.

All in all the symptoms suggest a PSU problem. How old is the PSU? Heavy use for gaming, video editing, or even bit-mining?

The PSU may be nearing its designed in EOL (End of Life) and starting to falter and fail during times of peak loads.

 

[Aeacus]

All in all the symptoms suggest a PSU problem.

How's that?

USB disconnect seems to be device-by-device basis. E.g specific device, not all devices at once, which would happen, if PSU somehow stops the 5V feed that powers USB devices.

Also, SSD disconnecting could be PSU issue, when PSU cut the power in SATA/molex cable for a second. Or it could be MoBo issue as well, where MoBo cut the SATA connection to OS drive. Then, there's always the chance that cables weren't plugged in properly and over time, with PC vibration, came loose, until connection dropped.

GPU lighting issue, yes, points towards PSU issue and voltage drops. Or it could be GPU issue as well.

All-in-all, it's hard to tell exactly what the issue is. There could be even several issues.
Clean OS install would remove all issues from software side, leaving only hardware to worry about. And yes, there are methods to fix OS issues (like sfc /scannow) but if there is specific driver/software that causes those, finding that one is an ordeal.

 

[Ralston18]

Fully agree. Multiple and varying symptoms make any diagnosis difficult.

My view is that because a PSU provides three different voltages (3, 5, and 12) to varying components a problem with any given voltage rail can make some components appear to be working while other components may be working or not working.

Another reason is that PSUs, like many other computer components, and products in general, are being made as cheaply as possible. Design, quality, etc. are declining and with the PSU being a critical component I tend (rightly or wrongly) to consider the PSU as a primary suspect in these sort of situations.

So I lean towards first trying the software fixes (windows trouble shooters, sfc, dism, etc.) first.

Then if applicable the physical checks inside the case.

Lastly, testing the PSU with a multi-meter which may or may not be viable for any given user/poster. And that testing is not really a full test because the PSU is not under load.

A clean OS install from the start is just another option. Indeed that could be an easier way but posters often do not have data backed up and the ongoing problems may not allow a backup.

As for drivers I like looking in Reliability History and Event Viewer. If there is a specific driver problem then just maybe some error will be captured. As stated that error information may or may not be helpful.

And I also like to use Powershell using Admin rights.

For example "Get-PNPDevice"

or

Get-WindowsDriver -Online -All

If the cmdlet is run and the problem device/driver does not even appear or the results are not as expected then that is another clue with respect to what may be happening.

Unfortunately, using cmdlets is not always viable for many posters. More suited for admin type folks.

Overall, if I make some error of omission or commission then someone usually posts accordingly and things go back on track. I have no problem with that.

Thanks.

 

[DSzymborski]

Yeah, I don't suspect the PSU is the cause of this problem, but since it ought to be eliminated anyway because it's inappropriate for an RTX 3070, it's a no-brainer to replace it and eliminate at least a possible, though less likely, source if issues. Diagnosing issues basically means eliminating potential problems and if it's one that should have been done in any case, it's an easy choice!

 

[BenPCNoob]

Thank you for your replies everyone.

I took my PC completely apart, cleaned everything (including GPU fans), put it back together, reinstalled Windows, and it now seems fine.

After the re-assembly, the RBG issue is resolved, coil whine is reduced, temperatures are improved, and framerate stability is improved. I can't comment on the other issues as they are infrequent. I suspect that cleaning the dust off everything probably provided the greatest benefit.

Believe it or not, regarding the issues I described in the original post, my suspicion is that the power wasn't plugged in correctly. While plugging it back in I realised it was a bit loose, gave it a hard push, and it located correctly. Crappy socket/plug.

The moral of the story is to check that your PC is connected to the power properly before posting in forums lol.

Based on your comments I think I will upgrade the PSU anyway as I noticed that the builders (it was a pre-built) had looped a single 8 pin power connector into both the GPU power sockets.

Can anyone recommend a good PSU?

Cheers.

 

[--SID--]

Can anyone recommend a good PSU?

Corsair RM750x
Enermax revolution D.F. 750w
EVGA Supernova G6 750w
Fractal design ION+ 760w
Super Flower Leadex III 750w
Thermaltake GF1 750w PE
XPG Core Reactor 750w

 

[DSzymborski]

Thank you for your replies everyone.

I took my PC completely apart, cleaned everything (including GPU fans), put it back together, reinstalled Windows, and it now seems fine.

After the re-assembly, the RBG issue is resolved, coil whine is reduced, temperatures are improved, and framerate stability is improved. I can't comment on the other issues as they are infrequent. I suspect that cleaning the dust off everything probably provided the greatest benefit.

Believe it or not, regarding the issues I described in the original post, my suspicion is that the power wasn't plugged in correctly. While plugging it back in I realised it was a bit loose, gave it a hard push, and it located correctly. Crappy socket/plug.

The moral of the story is to check that your PC is connected to the power properly before posting in forums lol.

Based on your comments I think I will upgrade the PSU anyway as I noticed that the builders (it was a pre-built) had looped a single 8 pin power connector into both the GPU power sockets.

Can anyone recommend a good PSU?

Cheers.

Good job, a lot of people are either too skittish or (unfortunately) too lazy to take things apart and make sure everything's connected correctly and clean. The thing about prebuilts is that no matter how new one is to the hobby, you will always have a far greater motivation to have everything put together competently than some underpaid dude on an assembly line.

SID gave you some good places to start for a new PSU. You have an expensive GPU, so anything Tier A on our curated PSU tier list in that forum will be appropriate.

 

[Aeacus]

Another reason is that PSUs, like many other computer components, and products in general, are being made as cheaply as possible. Design, quality, etc. are declining and with the PSU being a critical component I tend (rightly or wrongly) to consider the PSU as a primary suspect in these sort of situations.

While there are cheap PSUs out there, with questionable quality, select few PSU OEMs are still upholding their moral standards and produce good products. Those few are: Super Flower, Seasonic and Flextronics. Sure, other OEMs also have good PSUs in their lineup, like HEC or CWT but since they have 0 issues producing low quality PSUs, i don't hold them in that high degree of trustfulness.
Here, i don't think the situation in PSU scene is due to the OEMs. Instead, it's due to the penny pinchers who cheap out on PSU. As long as people are buying cheapest PSUs, OEMs are making them.

Since i'm specialized on hardware, i 1st look if any of the symptoms are most likely due to hardware issues or software issues. E.g USB disconnecting is usually an OS issue, while PC randomly rebooting is usually PSU issue. And once the split is clear, i follow the route to the cause.

Regarding software/OS issues, yes, many people don't have their data backed up and wiping the OS + installing it again will (for the most part), erase personal data as well. But on the other hand, this is very good lesson for people to; either back up their data OR keep their personal data on another disk. (E.g i have 3 disks; OS, data and backup.)
It is possible, after tedious work, to locate and fix the software/OS issues. Only in the rare cases, when OS has corrupt in high degree, where only fix is OS reinstall, there is no way around for saving personal data. Though, for most cases, even when OS is corrupt, but the drive itself isn't, the drive can be connected to 2nd PC as data disk and all personal data can be just copy/pasted over (i've done it several times for my friends/family).
Though, i'm not software expert and i don't like to deal with software/OS issues, hence why i suggest OS reinstall. It's faster and removes any software issues PC may have. A clean start to say so, from where to look further what the issue may be (usually, issue then is hardware related).

On hardware side, things are easier (at least to me). And there are several steps that can be done to test if the hardware is sound or not. But in most times, those tests require 2nd PC and/or replacement component.

Yeah, I don't suspect the PSU is the cause of this problem, but since it ought to be eliminated anyway because it's inappropriate for an RTX 3070, it's a no-brainer to replace it and eliminate at least a possible, though less likely, source if issues.

The thing with prebuilt PCs is, that the PSU is often overlooked and cheapest one is used, which doesn't have the quality, max output wattage or reliability to run PC safely for years to come. Only thing that most people are interested in, is cheap price.

Depending on where prebuilt is bought, sometimes people can make a choice regarding which PSU it comes from, but for the most time, cheapest PSU is still picked. I guess it isn't well known fact that PSU is the most important component inside the PC, because it powers everything. And if low quality PSU goes sky high, PSU has the magical ability to take everything it is connected to, with it. Resulting in completely fried system, where only fix is buying a whole new PC.
Saving $40-$50 on PSU isn't worth the $1000-$2000 people need to fork out for a new PC, once the cheap PSU fries their current PC.

Based on your comments I think I will upgrade the PSU anyway as I noticed that the builders (it was a pre-built) had looped a single 8 pin power connector into both the GPU power sockets.

Can anyone recommend a good PSU?

it's good to hear that you got your issues solved.

Regarding prebuilt PCs;
I understand why some people are buying prebuilt PC, rather than buying separate components and assembling them on their own. For the most part, is lack of knowledge in PC assemble and there's always they laziness factor as well. It's far more convenient to pick up prebuilt PC, hook it to monitor/ KB/ mouse and start gaming, rather than spending several hours assembling it.
Though, GamersNexus has reviewed several prebuilt PCs and every single one of them has come with issues. Some with more severe than others. So, the best course of action is to inspect your PC thoroughly when it arrives since it may have loose connectors, broken hardware etc.

As far as which PSU to go for, i suggest Seasonic Focus or PRIME lineups, in 750W range,
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/64cMnQ,dCs8TW,VfM323,cNsmP6/

(All 3 of my PCs are also powered by Seasonic, full specs with pics in my sig.)

For other options:
Super Flower Leadex II or Leadex III
Corsair RMx, HX, HXi, AX or AXi

 

[--SID--]

i suggest Seasonic Focus or PRIME lineups, in 750W range

I don't with nVidia Ampere and because of the thermister controlled analog IC for the fan, mediacore fan and the 9A modulair sockets instead of the regular 13A. There are dozens of better options for a comparable price.

 

[BenPCNoob]

I got this pre-built in January, at the height of the chip shortage and it was the only way to get my hands on an RTX 30XX, and I needed a new computer quickly. The price was really competitive, at the time an RTX3070 was selling for £900 in the UK, and the whole system cost me £1100. I priced up the same components at RRP and it came to £1170, in reality it would have been more like £1500, it was a good deal, if an imperfect system. Most of the components were decent; Corsair Vengeance RAM, Asus Dual RTX 3070 etc. It came with a decent Coolmaster CPU cooler and the thermals are good. My only complaints were a single stick of RAM, which I've already upgraded, and the crappy PSU.

I'm definitely going to upgrade the PSU, I want a nice modular one so I can get rid of all the copper spaghetti in the bottom.

Cheers everyone.

 

[Aeacus]

I don't with nVidia Ampere and because of the thermister controlled analog IC for the fan, mediacore fan and the 9A modulair sockets instead of the regular 13A.

Any proof to your claims? Or are you just trying to downplay Seasonic?

thermister controlled analog IC for the fan

I guess you prefer your PSU fan at 100% at all times, producing a lot of noise, compared to the adaptive fans in Seasonic PSUs, which doesn't turn when load on PSU is low (since it doesn't need active cooling at that moment) and once load increases, so does the fan speed. Also, the fan RPM isn't controlled by temperature, but instead by the actual load of the PSU.

Btw, many PSUs you suggested, have the very same fan technology in them, where fan doesn't turn on low loads.

mediacore fan

All 4x Seasonic PSUs i linked, have FDB fan in them. I guess you haven't seen Fluid-Dynamic Bearing fans before and are used to only Sleeve bearing fans. Sure, Sleeve bearing fans are cheaper than FDB fans, but they also have a lot shorter lifespan, 40.000 hours vs 150.000 hours.

Btw, all the PSUs you suggested, have the same "mediAcore" fan in them as well. FDB bearing.


All-in-all, it looks like you're Seasonic hater. Why else make the hollow claims to downplay Seasonic.

The price was really competitive, at the time an RTX3070 was selling for £900 in the UK, and the whole system cost me £1100. I priced up the same components at RRP and it came to £1170, in reality it would have been more like £1500, it was a good deal, if an imperfect system.

Many people have also bought prebuilt PC, just to get one specific component from it, usually GPU, since the shortages of RTX 3000 series. That has made prebuilt builders a pretty penny.

 

[--SID--]

All-in-all, it looks like you're Seasonic hater. Why else make the hollow claims to downplay Seasonic.

I'm not. I even listed a Seasonic OEM PSU.

 

[Aeacus]

I'm not.

You may not be, but you clearly doesn't like those Seasonic units i suggested, by making hollow and false claims.

 

[--SID--]

Any proof to your claims?

It's widely known that Seasonic PSUs have issues with high-end GPUs. Like Prime (and corsair AX Ti because it s the same) with RTX 3080 and up and Focus Plus Gold a few years ago.
Seasonic use an analog IC for the fancontrol. Fancontrol may vary in the same model units. One is dead silent while the other is audible. A lot of other brands use a digital fan IC.
9A connectors yes. You find out with a teardown.That's why Seasonic recommand to use 2 seperate cables with >225w GPUs.

all the PSUs you suggested, have the same "mediAcore" fan in them as well. FDB bearing.

But not the same Hong Hua. That's the difference.

I've seen enough issues with Seasonic PSus over the last 4 years to not recommand them if there's a better option for a comaparable price.

 

[Aeacus]

It's widely known that Seasonic PSUs have issues with high-end GPUs. Like Prime (and corsair AX Ti because it s the same) with RTX 3080 and up and Focus Plus Gold a few years ago.

Corsair AX doesn't use Seasonic PRIME platform. AX 650, 750 and 850 used Seasonic X-series platform (where all three units are discontinued as of now). Corsair AX 760 and AX 860 use Seasonic XP2 platform, which is Seasonic Platinum series. And Corsair AX 1200 is made by Flextronics.
So, get your facts straight.

Seasonic use an analog IC for the fancontrol. Fancontrol may vary in the same model units. One is dead silent while the other is audible. A lot of other brands use a digital fan IC.

When looking all PSUs, only a small portion of them have any fan control and a fraction of them use digital fan control with included software. So, i wouldn't say: "a lot of other brands use digital fan control". There are few that offer digital fan control, while most who has fan control, is either fixed, or toggle-able via button on PSU (many Seasonic PSUs have that button).

I've seen enough issues with Seasonic PSus over the last 4 years to not recommand them if there's a better option for a comaparable price.

And here's our disagreement. You've had/seen bad experience with Seasonic, while i've had/seen good experience with Seasonic. At this point, lets agree to disagree.

 

[--SID--]

Corsair AX doesn't use Seasonic PRIME platform

AX Ti(tanium) = Seasonic Prime

You've had/seen bad experience with Seasonic, while i've had/seen good experience with Seasonic.

I've used hundreds of Seasonic PSUs in system building the past 15 years. They've never been so bad as the last 4 years. Well, maybe they didn't get worse, other OEMs are getting better and better over the years. Now even HKC can make a PSU that's better than any Seasonic.
You have 4 Seasonics, I have more then 10 lying around here. From S12II 330w to Prime Titanium 850w.

 

[Aeacus]

AX Ti(tanium) = Seasonic Prime

There are many versions of AX series. Clarification of, refresh of AX series, in form of 850W and 1000W units, would've been in order. It would've cleared the confusion.

You have 4 Seasonics, I have more then 10 lying around here. From S12II 330w to Prime Titanium 850w.

Actually, i have 5; S12II-520 (retired), M12II-850 EVO (retired), SSR-550PX, SSR-650TD and SSR-650TR.

Never had any issues with any of my PSUs. Even CPU C6, C7 and C8 sleep states worked just fine with S12II-520, despite that it doesn't officially support C6 and C7, let alone C8.

 

[jonnyguru]

I guess you prefer your PSU fan at 100% at all times, producing a lot of noise, compared to the adaptive fans in Seasonic PSUs, which doesn't turn when load on PSU is low (since it doesn't need active cooling at that moment)

He means a fan controlled by an analog circuit dictated by a thermistor as opposed to an MCU that can calculate multiple conditions.

Corsair AX doesn't use Seasonic PRIME platform.

AX Titanium did. And it was discontinued quickly when problems with Ampere popped up and Seasonic was completely useless in troubleshooting how to address the problems.

Never had any issues with any of my PSUs. Even CPU C6, C7 and C8 sleep states worked just fine with S12II-520, despite that it doesn't officially support C6 and C7, let alone C8.

To be fair, people buy Raidmax, Deer and Powmax PSUs and never had issues. Doesn't make them better PSUs.

 

[Aeacus]

To be fair, people buy Raidmax, Deer and Powmax PSUs and never had issues. Doesn't make them better PSUs.

Yes. But when PSU is tried, tested and proven to reliable, should i not trust it? Speaking of S12II series, which was the best group-regulated PSU ever made.
Also, current Focus, Focus+ and PRIME series have reviewed well and back in the day, when PRIME 650 Titanium 1st came out (SSR-650TD), it was the best 650W PSU money could buy. Seasonic then made slight changes to the successor, SSR-650TR and it too got top marks from reputable reviewers, including Aris and OklahomaWolf.