Is The Game Industry Dropping The 60 FPS Standard?

[Agente Silva]

Oh, and red77star is using that kind of APPROPRIATE language because he must´ve spend (like me and other gaming enthusiasts) a good bunch of bucks to have a power rig just to watch as gaming market is getting limited to console performance. That pisses anyone off...

 

[djazzoff]

Why can't we just take and remove consoles from the market ? The new ones XBOX One and PS4 will not be powerful enough to run new games at high/ultra settings in 2 years. Why can't the console users just buy a powerful PC or even assemble one, like mini/macro ATX platform which would be much powerful than console and just put it behind a tv or where the hell u put console and just connect usb controllers to play games. Steam already supports big picture mode which suites controllers. U can easily change console with PC and have even better performance.

 

[canadianvice]

Why can't we just take and remove consoles from the market ? The new ones XBOX One and PS4 will not be powerful enough to run new games at high/ultra settings in 2 years. Why can't the console users just buy a powerful PC or even assemble one, like mini/macro ATX platform which would be much powerful than console and just put it behind a tv or where the hell u put console and just connect usb controllers to play games. Steam already supports big picture mode which suites controllers. U can easily change console with PC and have even better performance.

Any idiot can hook up a console - it comes with obvious ports and an OS that's preinstalled.
Building a computer is easy to many of us, but the simple fact is the majority of the human population is technologically retarded.

 

[lookanlearn]

I just took it off my Steam list of games to pre-buy this month..

 

[Joseph DeGarmo]

Well, it surprises me that I am actually able to run Splinter Cell Blacklist maxed out with 4x MSAA and maintain 60 fps during gameplay. There are some occasional fps drops, though, and when that happens, the game becomes very laggy. Guess there's not much you can do about that except probably lower the anti-aliasing to FXAA. Stupid Ubisoft. They make the games run great at 30 fps, but not at 60 fps.

 

[Posiris]

I believe that the decision to go to 30 fps to a game like AC is a sound decision. On a console, you can't have high framerate, high resolution, and quality graphics at the same time; you have to pick one as your highest priority. Now, I hope that they do not lock the framerate to 30 fps on PC or I will be pretty upset. I will explain my reasoning as to why 30 fps may not be that bad...

People need to remember that a console is perfectly optimized. Each part is paired with each other and they all sort of compliment each other. The software that goes into it and the APIs and software that the developers use are optimized for the console (granted the games are made on PC). Because of this, you have the ability to perfect a game with that particular console. So things like FRAME SKIPP are almost non-existent.

Why did I make frame skip all caps? Because that's what I want to emphasize here. Here is the definition of frameskip from Wiktionary:

"A software feature that skips the display of certain frames of animation to improve performance at the expense of visual smoothness."

I will go into a little more detail since I wasn't able to find a better definition from somewhere. If you have a PC and it is able to play a game (without V-sync on) on average of 80 fps on a 60 Hz monitor, you might see some screen tear often. We all know that screen tearing is annoying so we turn on something that we also don't like, but it's better than tearing: V-sync. Now the game is locked at 30 fps (some games may do 60 but it depends on some factors). Now you are forcing your monitor and your graphics to try and stay in sync with each other more than before. Now when you play the game, you will see that you might have frameskip. The game looks choppier and when there are dynamic changes in the game you might see it even more. This could make people's perception of "30 fps is unplayable" understandable if they don't understand the mechanics behind it.

Now, let's say you turn some graphics down and V-sync is now locking in at 60 fps. You play the game now and it seems smoother to the human eye. There is not nearly as much frameskip and it's more tolerable to play. We can argee that frameskip is not as noticeable because the frames you see every second is twice as fast. Which again, this could make people's perception of "30 fps is unplayable" understandable if they don't understand the mechanics behind it.

I hope though that after the education I put you through, you might now see that on a PC you have several factors that CAUSE 30 fps to be "unplayable". Your graphics card and your monitor can't keep up, and when you enable V-sync to the mix, you're trying to make your graphics card slow down to match your montior and it doesn't always work the best in the world. Sometimes, your monitor is not going to catch all of the frames that the graphics card is telling it to take.

Now in a more perfect world where things work in harmony and each part is engineered for another (Consoles... Trust me. I hate to say it just as much as the other PC guy.), you don't have to worry about adjusting graphics, enabling V-sync, or any of that other sutff that would cause FRAME SKIPPING and make the game choppy and unenjoyable. The game has been perfectly optimized for the console to play at a certain framerate on a certain resolution at a certain quality.

PC gamers know that the game cannot be "perfectly" (I mean that lightly) optimized for a PC because there are so many different combinations of PCs out there that have the capabilities to run it. That's going to end up causing grief to people that try to play it and expect amazing smoothness and quality at low, or even high frame rates.

I'm not going to rant any longer, and I'm sure that I've ticked some people off with my crude way of methodology here, but my point is that 30 fps can be smooth. For a 3rd person action/rpg like AC there is no reason it has to be higher as long as things like FRAMESKIP are not an issue. I have found that games where you don't have to spin the camera around really fast don't need more than 30 fps. If I can get cinematic smoothness at 30 fps AND get cinematic quality as well, then I can take the hit in frames.

 

[Novuake]

Posiris, while I see the what you are TRYING to say, you are way to vague about it, nothing is definite in your post, just scenarios of your design.

 

[djazzoff]

Why can't we just take and remove consoles from the market ? The new ones XBOX One and PS4 will not be powerful enough to run new games at high/ultra settings in 2 years. Why can't the console users just buy a powerful PC or even assemble one, like mini/macro ATX platform which would be much powerful than console and just put it behind a tv or where the hell u put console and just connect usb controllers to play games. Steam already supports big picture mode which suites controllers. U can easily change console with PC and have even better performance.

Any idiot can hook up a console - it comes with obvious ports and an OS that's preinstalled.
Building a computer is easy to many of us, but the simple fact is the majority of the human population is technologically retarded.

Yes, but at the same time any idiot can buy a pre-built PC and get manual what to connect to which area to be able to run it.

 

[DickBaker]

Console devs are an embarrassment to the entire industry . They are basically saying that they want to stall innovation due to laziness. At least we know PC games will stick to 60fps.

Anyone who played GTA:V on consoles knows how 30fps can ruin the feel of game and the world its set in. Humans don't see in choppy vision.

 

[leeb2013]

all cars should be limited to 50mph, because that speed will still get you where you are going and some very old cars can only just do 50mph. Even newly released next gen electric cars can only hit 50mph, so all cars should only do 50mph.

Same argument?

 

[skit75]

Console devs are an embarrassment to the entire industry . They are basically saying that they want to stall innovation due to laziness. At least we know PC games will stick to 60fps.

Anyone who played GTA:V on consoles knows how 30fps can ruin the feel of game and the world its set in. Humans don't see in choppy vision.

Look, I believe developers set out to make the best game they can. They are sand-boxed, no doubt in coding for console first. One issue is that these developers have to give royalties to the hardware partners(MS/Sony) for every game they sell to offset selling the hardware at a loss. The advantage for the developer is coding for a known system which in theory, should take less time in development and QA testing.

Ubisoft is trying to comfort the console crowd because that is where their money comes from and they do not speak for the whole industry as the title would have you believe. This really shouldn't concern PC gamers in the slightest.

Console Gamer: Ubisoft is going to lock their games at 30 FPS !?!?!
PC Gamer: Ubisoft also used DRM that ended the world. I'm sure cracking their FPS locks on PC are impossible .... giggle

 

[lookanlearn]

Boys and girls.
Should we not be looking at No frames per second; and only have the `moving` pixels all move one pixel shift at a time in harmony? Like nature.
You dont have to keep re-flashing colors that remain unchanged in any particular scene; just the ones which change; and PC GPU`s should be at the point where that is possible.

One of hundreds of my concepts.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

Console devs are an embarrassment to the entire industry . They are basically saying that they want to stall innovation due to laziness. At least we know PC games will stick to 60fps.

Anyone who played GTA:V on consoles knows how 30fps can ruin the feel of game and the world its set in. Humans don't see in choppy vision.

Look, I believe developers set out to make the best game they can. They are sand-boxed, no doubt in coding for console first. One issue is that these developers have to give royalties to the hardware partners(MS/Sony) for every game they sell to offset selling the hardware at a loss. The advantage for the developer is coding for a known system which in theory, should take less time in development and QA testing.

Ubisoft is trying to comfort the console crowd because that is where their money comes from and they do not speak for the whole industry as the title would have you believe. This really shouldn't concern PC gamers in the slightest.

Console Gamer: Ubisoft is going to lock their games at 30 FPS !?!?!
PC Gamer: Ubisoft also used DRM that ended the world. I'm sure cracking their FPS locks on PC are impossible .... giggle

This is exactly what shows how you do not understand the gaming market. They want money money money! The coders are caring about their $80,000 yearly salary. I am not saying all are like that but no doubt some surely are. But do not think that they make games with a desire to increase your leisure time. It is an industry, and if you look at history industries have always screwed over the people, and they are still screwing people over by making them obsessed with graphics and forgetting game play and effort, as well as efficient programming.

But don't think that they give a crap about you. Some do though, people like Chris Sawyer really cared about making games good. Again, I am not blaming everyone.

 

[skit75]

Console devs are an embarrassment to the entire industry . They are basically saying that they want to stall innovation due to laziness. At least we know PC games will stick to 60fps.

Anyone who played GTA:V on consoles knows how 30fps can ruin the feel of game and the world its set in. Humans don't see in choppy vision.

Look, I believe developers set out to make the best game they can. They are sand-boxed, no doubt in coding for console first. One issue is that these developers have to give royalties to the hardware partners(MS/Sony) for every game they sell to offset selling the hardware at a loss. The advantage for the developer is coding for a known system which in theory, should take less time in development and QA testing.

Ubisoft is trying to comfort the console crowd because that is where their money comes from and they do not speak for the whole industry as the title would have you believe. This really shouldn't concern PC gamers in the slightest.

Console Gamer: Ubisoft is going to lock their games at 30 FPS !?!?!
PC Gamer: Ubisoft also used DRM that ended the world. I'm sure cracking their FPS locks on PC are impossible .... giggle

This is exactly what shows how you do not understand the gaming market. They want money money money! The coders are caring about their $80,000 yearly salary. I am not saying all are like that but no doubt some surely are. But do not think that they make games with a desire to increase your leisure time. It is an industry, and if you look at history industries have always screwed over the people, and they are still screwing people over by making them obsessed with graphics and forgetting game play and effort, as well as efficient programming.

But don't think that they give a crap about you. Some do though, people like Chris Sawyer really cared about making games good. Again, I am not blaming everyone.

All markets want money. I am a gamer that has money and wants games. I do not need to fully understand the gaming market to believe in the better side of people. If you enjoy your job and are payed a salary that allows you comfort. If you are a gamer who believes the devs are out to make your life hell, you should really get out of gaming. They can only prepare the game and toss it in the oven. it isn't their fault when upper management and shareholders yank it out of the oven half-baked, and toss it on your plate.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

@skit: I disagree with your statement on Ubisoft comforting the console people. Most people who game on consoles (besides me) totally ignore the PC gaming world in general and don't give a crap, whereas PC gamers find nothing better to do with their time than rant on console gamers.

 

[skit75]

@skit: I disagree with your statement on Ubisoft comforting the console people. Most people who game on consoles (besides me) totally ignore the PC gaming world in general and don't give a crap, whereas PC gamers find nothing better to do with their time than rant on console gamers.

I hear you there and agree, the hate is mostly one direction. That is, in my opinion, primarily because most devs are coding for console first choice or not, it is a fact and we PC gamers don't like to see or hear about even more developer withdrawal from the PC market in any shape or form. So we take out that aggression on console gamers at no fault of their own.... other than the continued support of purchasing console games developed with little to no PC port in mind.

The idea that (arguably) PC gamers built the gaming industry into the billion dollar market that it is and have to constantly wait for console refreshes, before we get real movement from developers. They can only go as far their sandbox will let them. They have hit this limit already, just two years into a 7 year refresh cycle. PC gamers will suffer 4-5 more years of horrible ports.

For the record, I also have a PS4 but it is primarily my Netflix machine at this point. Sometimes it plays music CD's =) Ever since I got the cheat codes to GTA:V, I haven't been able to play it anymore... =/ Just not fun.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

@Skot: Alrght that could be a valid reason for PC gamers' reasons to dislike console gamers.

 

[skit75]

@Skot: Alrght that could be a valid reason for PC gamers' reasons to dislike console gamers.

It is hard to throw devs under the bus when you see videos like "Brian Fargo pitches Wasteland 2" on youtube
Brian Fargo_Wasteland_2

 

[turkey3_scratch]

@Skot: Alrght that could be a valid reason for PC gamers' reasons to dislike console gamers.

It is hard to throw devs under the bus when you see videos like "Brian Fargo pitches Wasteland 2" on youtube
http://
have

I am not throwing anybody under the bus, maybe I was a bit harsh and untrue saying they just cared about money. I know when I make things I want them to be the best for whoever is viewing them. Now I feel a bit guilty.

 

[RussK1]

It's about pumping out titles as fast as possible with day one micro-transactions.

Trust me, it's ALL ABOUT the money. Someone has to get the kiddies parents $$...

Ire directed towards console? Blame the console CoD kids. The are by far the most obnoxious and ignorant that compound the agony of lackluster development. Activision set the bar with CoD and the uninformed lapped it up (still do) and ask(ed) for more.

 

[lookanlearn]

It's about pumping out titles as fast as possible with day one micro-transactions.

Trust me, it's ALL ABOUT the money. Someone has to get the kiddies parents $$...

Ire directed towards console? Blame the console CoD kids. The are by far the most obnoxious and ignorant that compound the agony of lackluster development. Activision set the bar with CoD and the uninformed lapped it up (still do) and ask(ed) for more.

Did you also just mention CS:GO without actually saying it.

 

[RussK1]

It's about pumping out titles as fast as possible with day one micro-transactions.

Trust me, it's ALL ABOUT the money. Someone has to get the kiddies parents $$...

Ire directed towards console? Blame the console CoD kids. The are by far the most obnoxious and ignorant that compound the agony of lackluster development. Activision set the bar with CoD and the uninformed lapped it up (still do) and ask(ed) for more.

Did you also just mention CS:GO without actually saying it.

NO, Call of Duty.

This one game has nearly single-handily ruined the developmental initiative. Same game for nearly a decade and has raked in millions... so why not slap a new sticker on the lunchbox and give it a "new" name?

There are developers out there that do have some integrity and want to release a great game.

CD Projekt RED
4A Games
2K
Crytek

People rather give their money to Infinity Ward though for the same game year after year.

 

[kulmnar]

Why can't we just take and remove consoles from the market ? The new ones XBOX One and PS4 will not be powerful enough to run new games at high/ultra settings in 2 years. Why can't the console users just buy a powerful PC or even assemble one, like mini/macro ATX platform which would be much powerful than console and just put it behind a tv or where the hell u put console and just connect usb controllers to play games. Steam already supports big picture mode which suites controllers. U can easily change console with PC and have even better performance.

Any idiot can hook up a console - it comes with obvious ports and an OS that's preinstalled.
Building a computer is easy to many of us, but the simple fact is the majority of the human population is technologically retarded.

Yes, but at the same time any idiot can buy a pre-built PC and get manual what to connect to which area to be able to run it.

Yeah but pre-built PCs that can play games on high settings at 1080p/60fps are likely going to cost around $1000. Which means that to someone who just wants to play games, a $450 console is a much more attractive purchase than a $1000 PC. Joe Blow can buy a $1000 PC OR buy a $450 console plus have $550 dollars left over for games/accessories.

 

[skit75]

Why can't we just take and remove consoles from the market ? The new ones XBOX One and PS4 will not be powerful enough to run new games at high/ultra settings in 2 years. Why can't the console users just buy a powerful PC or even assemble one, like mini/macro ATX platform which would be much powerful than console and just put it behind a tv or where the hell u put console and just connect usb controllers to play games. Steam already supports big picture mode which suites controllers. U can easily change console with PC and have even better performance.

Any idiot can hook up a console - it comes with obvious ports and an OS that's preinstalled.
Building a computer is easy to many of us, but the simple fact is the majority of the human population is technologically retarded.

Yes, but at the same time any idiot can buy a pre-built PC and get manual what to connect to which area to be able to run it.

Yeah but pre-built PCs that can play games on high settings at 1080p/60fps are likely going to cost around $1000. Which means that to someone who just wants to play games, a $450 console is a much more attractive purchase than a $1000 PC. Joe Blow can buy a $1000 PC OR buy a $450 console plus have $550 dollars left over for games/accessories.

Sounds like a challenge.....

I am willing to bet on a budget of $450.00, there is a pre-buitl system that can do that just fine. Problem is, you couldn't put this together 3-4 years ago when the PS4/XBONE were in development. The cost for that performance back then was as you said, closer to $1000.00 or more.

 

[RussK1]

Why can't we just take and remove consoles from the market ? The new ones XBOX One and PS4 will not be powerful enough to run new games at high/ultra settings in 2 years. Why can't the console users just buy a powerful PC or even assemble one, like mini/macro ATX platform which would be much powerful than console and just put it behind a tv or where the hell u put console and just connect usb controllers to play games. Steam already supports big picture mode which suites controllers. U can easily change console with PC and have even better performance.

Any idiot can hook up a console - it comes with obvious ports and an OS that's preinstalled.
Building a computer is easy to many of us, but the simple fact is the majority of the human population is technologically retarded.

Yes, but at the same time any idiot can buy a pre-built PC and get manual what to connect to which area to be able to run it.

Yeah but pre-built PCs that can play games on high settings at 1080p/60fps are likely going to cost around $1000. Which means that to someone who just wants to play games, a $450 console is a much more attractive purchase than a $1000 PC. Joe Blow can buy a $1000 PC OR buy a $450 console plus have $550 dollars left over for games/accessories.

Fallacy propagated by clueless people -----> "The $1,000 Myth" to justify the purchase of a console.

Q2 Budget Machine

Q3 Budget Machine

And even less can be spent by frugal shopping. You buy that over-priced media player and I'll assemble a mini-ITX rig that'll outperform it in every way.