Is This Even Fair? Budget Ivy Bridge Takes On Core 2 Duo And Quad

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Paul, not to beat a dead horse but I found this quote from Tom's Hardware UK:

"The Core i5-3570K is only 300 MHz faster than the Core i5-3450 at stock speeds, but the K-series' unlocked CPU multiplier is a must for overclockers looking to gain significant performance improvements. It is for this reason alone that a gamer should shell out the extra £30 over Intel's slower model. After all, the pricier chip's HD Graphics 4000 is hardly relevant when you plan to use a discrete card anyway. If you don't plan to overclock at all, then we think that there's little reason to look past the Core i5-3450."

The link is here: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,review-32485-4.html

I just thought it was an interesting quote from Tom's Hardware and I don't want to rehash the discussion.
 
[citation][nom]flong777[/nom]Paul, not to beat a dead horse but I found this quote from Tom's Hardware UK:"The Core i5-3570K is only 300 MHz faster than the Core i5-3450 at stock speeds, but the K-series' unlocked CPU multiplier is a must for overclockers looking to gain significant performance improvements. It is for this reason alone that a gamer should shell out the extra £30 over Intel's slower model. After all, the pricier chip's HD Graphics 4000 is hardly relevant when you plan to use a discrete card anyway. If you don't plan to overclock at all, then we think that there's little reason to look past the Core i5-3450."The link is here: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/gami [...] 485-4.htmlI just thought it was an interesting quote from Tom's Hardware and I don't want to rehash the discussion.[/citation]

Flong; ?, I honestly don’t get your point nor see what that adds here? That's Don from Tom's Hardware USA. There will be a May update, but currently April's would be the latest version, where i5-3570K would be one of 9 CPU's earning recognition for gaming. Personally, I'd also add the Pentium G2020, and the FX-6300, at least as honorable mentions.

Again nobody is speaking against the 3570K, rather is a current favorite! But you must keep in mind Don isn’t claiming it is the best bang for buck gaming CPU. That would be crazy, as our data doesn’t support it. Core i3 would kill it in that department at roughly half the cost. All he is saying is if you plan to overclock, then it makes sense to buy a K-series chip. Don’t read into it beyond that to mean more. And I fully agree with that notion. However, that doesn’t mean he’d sacrifice graphics to fit an unlocked i5 into a pure gaming PC. Not a chance. And he certainly isn’t telling every gamer they must start their build with a 3570K. I'm not sure where you get the notion the i5-3570K is the best bang for buck gaming CPU and a must have. I'd challenge anyone who makes that claim, with data that proves it wrong.

To back that up…. lets put it this way. Don himself leaves the i5-3570K out of every one of his gaming-performance related reviews, and tests a locked i5-3550 instead. Look at Crysis3 for example: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/crysis-3-performance-benchmark-gaming,3451-8.html

If he agrees with you that the i5-3570K was the (singular) very best bang for buck gaming CPU, and the key to every gaming build, don’t you think he would take the time to test one in gaming related stories? Rather his concern is that one i7, i5, i3, etc. is tested. As enthusiasts, Tom’s editors will gravitate towards unlocked chips, for sure. However, we wouldn’t say an unlocked chip is the key to a gaming PC. It’s simply not a must have component by any means.
 
BTW flong, I'm honestly trying to help you here, not argue with you. The i5-3570K might represent the best buy for you, or (on some builds) for me, but really we can't pin that tag on anyone else, or every gaming system. It's pretty common sense, if you want to OC Ivy- or Sandy- Bridge, buy a K-series chip.
 
We already all agreed that the 3570K is the best bang for buck processor and only if you are overclocking and if you can afford that sort of processor without compromising anything else. Enough said. Now please stop arguing for 2-3 pages and let's go back to the article. I would have liked to seen an AM2 Phenom/Athlon vs FX processors and Lynnfield and Clarkdale processors vs Ivy Bridge i3s and i5s.
 

And actually need the extra performance.

Having a more powerful PC than you will ever need gives you no-bang-per-buck since you aren't going to be using any of the extra bang for the extra bucks you spend.

A great deal is a great deal only if you actually need what you are upselling youself into. Otherwise, it becomes just one more unused/under-used thing lying around that you paid too much for.
 
I will add this, in most games, even if ocing, you wont see that big a perf gain over 4GHZ.

Sometimes being able to OC and getting something for nothing is great, but if the cost of buying the chip offsets this to begin with, it doesnt have the same flare for desire.

Another thing, currently, we are headed towards the bottom, not in perf, but power.
Good enough has arrived in perf, and we are slowly seeing new approaches in SW/SOC etc.
Mobile leads the new markets, but, what happens when power usage becomes good enough?
8-10 hrs?
Stay tuned
 
[citation][nom]InvalidError[/nom]And actually need the extra performance.Having a more powerful PC than you will ever need gives you no-bang-per-buck since you aren't going to be using any of the extra bang for the extra bucks you spend.A great deal is a great deal only if you actually need what you are upselling youself into. Otherwise, it becomes just one more unused/under-used thing lying around that you paid too much for.[/citation]
Bingo! An overclocked i5 is only more valuable (in games) if and when a stock i5 or i3 doesn't cut it.

But on the flip side, satisfaction and enjoyment from a PC for many enthusiasts may very well require overclocking. Tweaking and reaping the benefits (in benchmarks) in itself can be half the fun.

 


Yep. And by the time that happens, there may very well be other compelling reasons to upgrade the platform. It's only theoretically true that the overclocking headroom of the unlocked chip will give the generic gamer years of extra swap-in-a-new-GPU upgradeability. We just can't know for sure, both because we can't see into the future, and because we can't know the performance standards of every user.



Very true too. Overclocking for overclocking's sake is a valid reason to buy an unlocked CPU. Been there myself, many moons ago. The main point here is just that people who buy locked CPUs aren't necessarily foolish or poor. The 3570k is a great choice, but there are other great choices too.
 

Me too. That'd be a great follow-up if Paul or someone else at THG is willing :)
 


I was summarising the last 20 or so posts between flong, pauld, and Fulgurant.
 
[citation][nom]Fulgurant[/nom]Me too. That'd be a great follow-up if Paul or someone else at THG is willing[/citation]

1156 (and 1366) would need to wait until the next go around, replacing S775.

On the AMD side, I just can't imagine there are enough folk still using Kuma/Agena to warrant a 2013 look? Kuma will do horrible, and our X4 9950 BE tops out at 3.4 GHz. I'd rather start with Propus/Deneb, seeing they are still a valid buy.

Keeping the full tests suite, plus 8 games, I need to draw a line on lab time to either 6-8 sets, which is 3-4 CPUs stock/OC'ed. Obviously if we only test stock, I can toss in more samples.

 
[citation][nom]Matsushima[/nom]We already all agreed that the 3570K is the best bang for buck processor.[/citation]
Actually no, I strongly disagree with that. At least for gaming, which was the context. It's the best (by far) for it's typical street price $220, but not the best bang for buck gaming CPU. Those are two very different things. If we are going to move on, you need to get it right. (... recognize the difference) 😀

 
Still running a Penryn Wolfdale yet to the day I kinda wished I have went with the Q9550 but was way to
high in price at the time even two years after. Also looking forward to Intel's new Haswell Architecture,
witch will be my next step up let's say a extreme step but one I waiting for.

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.00 GHz (Codenamed Wolfdale)
MOBO: ASUS P5Q PRO (Codenamed Eaglelake) P45 Chipset
RAM: OCZ Reaper HPC Edition 8GB DDR2 PC2-6400
VIDEO: EVGA GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 55nm (Upgraded to GTX 670 Plus a second one soon!)
HDD: 3x Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black
DVD: 2x Samsung SH-S223
PSU: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 650W 80 Plus Sliver
CASE: Cooler Master’s HAF 912
LCD Screen: Acer V223W
KEYBOARD: Logitech G110
MOUSE: Logitech MX 518
GAMEPAD: Razer Onza TE
HEADSET: Creative Fatal1ty Gaming Headset
SPEAKERS: Genius SW-G2.1 1250 2.1
OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
 


Yes, I strongly disagree with that, since the 3350P does not make a huge difference at stock but people have been arguing and taking taking up space so I decided to reach a conclusion.
 
Now this was a great article, actually useful and relevant and a good read . A couple of years ago I replaced my E6600 with a C2Q9650 rather than replace everything and its still going strong and with 8GB and a Samsung 840 SSD still is fast enough, so much so it's hard to justify an upgrade until say it finally breaks down, especially given the 9650 cost me over $400 alone - so I want to get the most out of my investment. People complain of the cost of new CPU's but I think compared to 6 years ago they are cheap and perform great in comparison.
 
As always, if the PC suits your current need - don't upgrade. Once you find a couple of applications which require more CPU power, go for it. In my (unspoiled) opinion, one game is NOT enough reason to spend hundreds of dollars on a PC. Of course, many Americans have gotten so used to having that there are many fools out there with money who will soon have none. Luckily, my neighbor's lack of wealth just makes me feel better about my financial state. :)
 


I get it Pauld, I specifically said I did not want to rehash the discussion ( I am saying that in good will) and I DO appreciate your help - thanks. I have never said that the 3570K is the only chip or even the best buy for every gaming build. I get that people have different needs. I have said I would recommend it over the 3350P every time because of the small price difference - even for non-overclockers. I personally like the flexibility of the 3570K IF you are not limited by a very small budget. With today's modern motherboards, overclocking is often as simple as pushing a single button (my Asrock mobo has an easy overclock setting which I have never needed to use yet).

There are people who will never OC no matter what and in that case there is no point to buying a K chip - it is a waste of money for those who are absolutely set against OC. But I think that some people who game seriously may think that they will not overclock when they start but change their mind later. That is why I like the 3570K over 3350P.

It is the choice I made for myself when I bought the 2600K. The 2500K is nearly as fast and it was $100 cheaper when I bought my CPU and there was a 2450M CPU that was also very fast and $140 cheaper. But it was worth the 100 premium to me to get hyper-threading and a more reliable chip that was slightly faster. I am glad that I got the 2600K, I have never regretted my choice - it is really one of the best CPUs ever. If I OC to 4.8 GHZ or so, it will run neck and neck with the $1000 I-7 3960K in many tests. It provides a marvelous amount of flexibility for the money. That is why I like the 3570K over the 3350P - it gives the gamer a lot of extra flexibility for $40. For tight budgets and non-gamers it is a moot point, neither is the best choice.

I appreciate your respectful and fair posts, even if we don't agree on everything - we do agree on the vast majority of things.
 
Flong, yes you did say that, but then I was (and still am) totally unsure of your reason for the Tom's UK quote, and so wanted to put it in context for you. It doesn't change the situation in any way, it's just an old version of the US article that says the unlocked part makes sense for overclockers. That's it, nothing more.

Off mainly in the technicalities, we can certainly agree to disagree in part, and move on. I normally would not waste time on these type online debates (can not afford to), but you guys went on and on for pages, so I skimmed a bit and I felt a need to step in. Yes, now I've gone on and on with you..... But most of all I value painting an accurate picture for folk who may otherwise be swayed into buying more than they would ever use or need.

In a way, I own these comments... it is my story, and therefore my responsibility that the content doesn't mislead people. It's part of the job. If you boldly push a viewpoint I deem detrimental (to Tom's, the story, or a potentially misled reader), I will step in. I hope this makes sense. Nothing I have said was meant to be aggressive in any way. I'm certainly not trying to sway your own purchasing decisions. The 2600K was great choice, enjoy it. And I do appreciate the respect and kind words you've shown me also.

BTW... The vast majority of gamers I know won't OC, at least not any longer. Whether justified or not, many associate it will heat, noise, instability, hardware abuse, and a sheer waste of time.

 
I wish OEMs would put i3s with GTX650 Ti cards instead of wasting hardware by placing an Extreme Edition processor with a GTX650. As for me, I would get the 3350P on a budget minded point of view. That is my honest opinion. I associate overclocking with increased cost. Overclocking had been fun while it lasted; now we need to buy mor expensive chipsets and unlocked processors to truly overclock. It isn't like 2003 anymore. I miss the good old times. If I had just won the lottery though, I would of course get a 3570K. Or a 3930K.

Also is that a Quadro card I see?
 
sticking to my q9550@3.4ghz @1440p with FXAA. will probably buy 780 once 8970 comes out and 780 has gone down in price. if you game @1440+ you dont get cpu bottlenecked unless you go SLI/crossfire, so overclocked q9550 still holds its own if you have single gpu

best
revro
 

Haswell-based i3 have not been announced yet. Maybe there will be an i3-4225R with GT3e in the future. That could make a GT650 feel largely unnecessary.
 


If you look at Passmark's list the 650 scores about 1,829 and the HD4000 scores 479. The new onboard would need to be about 4 times faster to even compete and it would still be using system memory slowing down your CPU's access which could have a pretty big impact on any CPU heavy games or scenes in games.

Sure, it might be quick for onboard... but it's still onboard. It's also really unlikely to be available in the low end chips if you look at what's available in all the others.


 
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