iTunes Gift Certificates Reverse Engineered

[captaincharisma]

cool. hope they decide to do the wii point card's next

 

[theblade]

What makes this really wrong is that they are actually making profit out of those codes IMHO. That is plain stealing.

 

[PV9685]

hmm.. yeah. If you supply a valid code you are not stealing anything, the code allows you to legally download the music. If you leave your TV on your front lawn, someone will take it aswell. (Did they really steal it? Or did you temp them to take it?)

In response to the convenience store analogy, you are incorrect. The idea here is similar to paying $40 to receive $200 worth of VALID US DOLLARS. The code exists and therefore is worth it's value to Apple.

Considering that Apple rips off it's customers, selling them a PC in a $1000 dollar case or whatnot, they are the ones that started by ripping off customers, now the customers have simply turned the tables, lol.

"What makes this really wrong is that they are actually making profit out of those codes IMHO. That is plain stealing." - Nope, they provided a service. They put time and effort into this project, this is not stealing on their part. They are stealing as much as Apple or any other company is stealing for developing their products.

Nonetheless, they are selling a code that they generate. It does not matter what their code does, they have created the code and therefore they are not doing something unethical. It is Apple that is doing wrong by giving away discounted music to people that supply a code that has not been backed by the proper funds.

The fact still remains that if you do not run a secure network, someone will take your data. This really shouldn't be illegal, we are using computers and it is tempting to do interesting things with them.

The fact that their are laws that govern computer usage should be the real crime here. This is not the real world, it is a computer. There should be no laws.

But the fact still remains, if I had 100 music files that I did not pay for, it would be illegal. Though, if I would not have bought them legally - the music industry lost NO money. Surely some people have thousands of music files, though if they would only have purchased several hundred of them legally if they had to, they really didn't steal much at all.

 

[lamorpa]

PV9685:

I was going to say that your comments were nonsense, but I think you bring up an interesting point. There may be some strange legal technicality, but generally, I can't see where selling a code number is illegal. If the purchaser's agreement does not say that the card is just a transfer mechanism and you must have paid the dollar value for the dollars represented on the card, then it is not your problem.

There are some strange laws surrounding DVD encription, but it is a weird legal area.

 

[theblade]

"If you supply a valid code you are not stealing anything, the code allows you to legally download the music. If you leave your TV on your front lawn, someone will take it as well. (Did they really steal it? Or did you temp them to take it?)... The fact still remains that if you do not run a secure network, someone will take your data."

So basically it's not stealing cause it was not a secure enough network, similar to the case of the TV in the lawn, well if you leave your TV in your locked house and someone breaks in to take it then it's not stealing because the house wasn't secure, at least not secure enough for the robber who can pick the lock, so it makes it ok to take the TV, it would be a crime only if the house was secure (yeah right we should evaluate if the house was "secure" enough before we decide who is the rightfully owner of the TV), and if you are a master in breaking in then you can take anything you want because noting is secure according to you.

Sorry, I don’t buy this theory.

 

[Blessedman]

ok this goes beyond downloading torrents, this is actual theft! This is no different then reverse engineering wal-mart gift cards and going to buy stuff with it.

 

[grieve]

I am curious how Apple is going to resolve this issue.

If you consider how many unspent legitimate gift cards are out there worldwide, Apple can’t just void all gift cards and build a new system. How is Apple going to know which are legit and which are frauds without a database of some sort?
This is a nasty, nasty situation for Apple.

 

[vaskodogama]

bad day, isn't it steve? 😀

 

[kshub216]

people are always complaining about the cost of a song or music in general. how about everyone takes a moment to stop and think what you just ate for lunch today, how much did that cost? did you really need the $5-$10 meal? only to be flushed away down the toilet the next day...this concept blows my mind, music that is purchased should last and be enjoyed for years and years! and for the folks that say, 'well you need to eat', yes we do, but eating the fine fast foods that make up most diets are not necessary.

So my question to all is, how come we as a society are complaining about the cost of FOOD, etc...

 

[PV9685]

"So basically it's not stealing cause it was not a secure enough network, similar to the case of the TV in the lawn, well if you leave your TV in your locked house and someone breaks" ...I think you are misinterpreting the point. The point was that if you use a simple code, especially one that can be reversed - then someone might just be tempted to take the time to see how to create valid numbers.

Apple was not generating RANDOM codes, they were generating set codes that could be generated by anyone knowing the algorithm. If Apple had decided to create truly random codes and check them against a database of codes, it would be hit or miss creating codes. Instead they were sloppy.

The point of the TV on the front lawn, which you grossly misinterpreted - was that the TV on the front lawn is going to draw the attention of everyone passing by - eventually someone will give in to temptation. you misread by believing that the lawn dealt with security.. nope, simple temptation.

The same goes for MS Key's, someone wanted to create new ones... so they did. It is well known in the computing world that if you create a code based on an algorithm, that someone WILL try to reverse it if there is VALUE behind it.

Apple didn't innovate, they used an age old technique that has been proven to be a failure time and time again. The way I see it, a monkey could have prevented a problem like this.

Let's remember - This isn't windows, where the code is checked against a file containing an algorith, allowing you to install software... It's iTunes - Connected to a network that can check the validity of the code.

Apple resolve this issue? - Think about it, the codes that are being used, may already have been used for cards that already went out. If you have a card in your hand, they can't say it's invalid (if it is valid) - if the number has already been used you are going to deal with apple. Who is to say when that card will be used, this is quite an issue.

They are more than likely going to have to take a hit, stop selling cards based on the current technique soon, and phase them out - then stop honoring the codes.

Or, if they kept a listing of all the codes generated so far (which I would assume they did), they'll have to start checking them... But, someone may still generate and use the code before you get it.

Quite a catastrophe!

Though, don't be so hateful of everyone that "steals" on the internet. Some people are genuinely poor - just taking what is downloadable from large corporations. Hence the idea - If I install XP and do not pay for it, I am not hurting MS if I would have used Linux instead and not given them money anyway. (Though I personally own Vista legit.. lol) - Actually, it would be more hurtful to MS if I did not buy Windows, and purchased a competing product. hmm.. interesting. So in that case, would piracy help or still hurt? interesting.

 

[captaincharisma]

Though, don't be so hateful of everyone that "steals" on the internet. Some people are genuinely poor

if they were genuinely poor as you put it then how would a genuinely poor person be able to afford internet access or even a computer to download music?

 

[theblade]

"The point was that if you use a simple code, especially one that can be reversed - then someone might just be tempted to take the time to see how to create valid numbers."

And if you install a low quality lock in your house, especially one that can be picked - then someone might just be tempted to take the time to see how to get in and steal your stuff.

"Apple didn't innovate, they used an age old technique that has been proven to be a failure time and time again. The way I see it, a monkey could have prevented a problem like this."

Apple incompetence does not makes it right to steal from them, that is the whole point, yes they should have use a more secure system, and I bet they learned their lesson, but that does not negates the fact that the fake/legit codes were sold, there is profit from this, so it's not the regular music/software for personal use download. I'm not hateful of everyone that downloads on the internet, I'm actually from Costa Rica and I get tour point when you say that some of this people are poor and download for personal use, but the whole selling of the codes changes things for me, this is now a business.

 

[mavroxur]

Wow that's stupid on Apple's part. 99.99% of all other gift cards are activated upon purchase, using a central database. Leave it to Apple to reinvent the wheel (then charge $3500 for it, and claim they discovered it).

 

[kiss4luna]

i never buy e-musics, i always buy cds

 

[giftcardblogger]

It is interesting that Apple has not come out with a statement on this. By staying silent, they seem to be legitimizing the practice. Just go on eBay and you will see tons of deeply discounted iTunes gift cards. One has to ask, where are these people getting these cards? For more on this, see this post - http://blog.giftcardrescue.com/stolen-itunes-gift-card-codes-sold-online/