John Romero: PC is Decimating Console in Price Alone

[somebodyspecial]

Alec if you want to be taken serious, don't correct people's grammar, that is just childish, what about growing up? I pointed out that your statement about blizzard was incorrect, if you cant handle it, don't answer it.

Runic games is the creator of torchlight, if you don't know what torchlight is, then try look at youtube, it is a really good game. And CS GO was a 15$ and source a 30$ game at launch. And the original CS was a game you got together with Half life. The same with TF2, they were not a full priced games.

Your link is useless: The top 10 games list follows below, though it's important to keep in mind that this represent new physical retail only, not digital or used game sales.

that means that they have not taken digital sales in perspective, that is taking out all mobile games, and all steam sales GOG Humble and amazon sales out of the equation.

Correct, and taking that VALUE thought even further (with regards to the valve games): With Orange Box you got a whole crap-load of awesome games for $50 (PC I think, might have been $60, can't recall) or $60 (consoles) IIRC, including some very new stuff (half-life 2 EP 2, Portal, TF2) and I think the whole box was new for console users who had never before seen the HL2 series. Now that's what I call bang for buck TF2 was originally released in Orange Box as seen below.
http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/team-fortress-2-launch-review/1900-6190347/
Though it went through many revs before landing in that package, it was the first rev released in a box AFAIK. Was there ever a price on TF2 alone? While gamespot thought it was expensive, I'd argue it was kind of free when included with Portal and HL2:EP2 (not to mention HL2 and HL2 EP1 inside also). He mentions in the review it came with Orange Box, but then calls it high priced ($50-60 for 5 games??)? The comments pretty well cover how ridiculous that statement was back then.

 

[Alec Mowat]

I'm so lost in what ever point you trying to convey.
I just see a bunch of games you like from indie developers, and you're ignoring the best selling titles.

The biggest complaint with TF2 in that review was "...This new content helps extend the replay value of TF2, which makes the high price point a little easier to swallow."

Where's the numbers? How profitable is TF2 in F2P? Why is Valve charging money for CS:GO if TF2 as F2P is so successful?

There is a bigger demand for big budget games than there is for f2p or indie games. That isn't going to change anytime soon. You said that yourself.

The only difference now is there are MORE good indie games than quality big budget titles, but that won't last forever. The market is being saturated with indie garbage right now. Just look at Steam's library.

See History of Atari for the end results of over saturated markets: http://www.digitalspy.ca/gaming/news/a453849/atari-retrospective-the-rise-and-fall-of-a-gaming-giant.html#~oMe5KVRNu5RDel

And see the History of Nintendo for the success of high budget and quality control in the gaming industry.

EA isn't the only publishing company is the world. If EA makes a few bad titles because of poor management, that has nothing to do with whether or not the demand for those games exists.

You are very narrow minded on the gaming industry and the success/failure of the PS4 and Xbone. Neither company did proper market research when they released these consoles. We've also been in an economic slump since 2008, and people just don't have the money to spare on expensive entertainment.

It's not just EA and Xbone that hurting, it's retail in general.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/promotions-drive-sales-for-retailers-in-june-1404998141

People are only playing F2P and Indie because it's cheap.

The demand for Big Budget Games are there: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3-2014-ea-says-titanfall-is-the-best-selling-xbox-one-game-to-date/1100-6420404/

What's missing is the players who can afford to buy an Xbox One.

"John Romero: PC is Decimating Console in Price Alone"
That's exactly right. People can't afford a console, and they will go with the free option on price alone. It's not about value for your money; it's about affordability.

 

[aule10]

Alec have you seen nintendo's numbers the last year or 2? they are going down and it is going down fast. they where able to uphold the prices before because they did not have a lot of competition, but the new game market is growing.

and the reason why CSGO have a small price tag is simple, Microtransaction wont work on a CS game, they would had to remake the whole concept for it if they should make it a F2P. TF2 you can buy all sort of things, and make your character looks funny, better weapons etc. CS your character stay's the same, and all have the same access to weapons, that is how cs works and that is not a concept they wanted to go away from. and why should they? they already have TF2, so why do the same to CS, that would only take users of the TF2 game to CS, and that wouldn't get them any money.

 

[Alec Mowat]

Alec have you seen nintendo's numbers the last year or 2? they are going down and it is going down fast. they where able to uphold the prices before because they did not have a lot of competition, but the new game market is growing.

and the reason why CSGO have a small price tag is simple, Microtransaction wont work on a CS game, they would had to remake the whole concept for it if they should make it a F2P. TF2 you can buy all sort of things, and make your character looks funny, better weapons etc. CS your character stay's the same, and all have the same access to weapons, that is how cs works and that is not a concept they wanted to go away from. and why should they? they already have TF2, so why do the same to CS, that would only take users of the TF2 game to CS, and that wouldn't get them any money.

The difference between large name products and most F2P games, is that the majority of EA releases are big titles with heavy marketing and high expectations.
There are countless F2P titles that have failed, far far more than the big publishing companies have lost.

There are certainly a few success stories in an ocean of Indie and F2P failures.

 

[aule10]

And no one says that there haven't been a lot of bad indi games and F2P games. But AAA games cant keep giving us a bad product, that is just how it is. If we wants to keep seeing AAA titles, they need to step up their game.

 

[somebodyspecial]

I'm so lost in what ever point you trying to convey.
I just see a bunch of games you like from indie developers, and you're ignoring the best selling titles.

The biggest complaint with TF2 in that review was "...This new content helps extend the replay value of TF2, which makes the high price point a little easier to swallow."

Where's the numbers? How profitable is TF2 in F2P? Why is Valve charging money for CS:GO if TF2 as F2P is so successful?

There is a bigger demand for big budget games than there is for f2p or indie games. That isn't going to change anytime soon. You said that yourself.

The only difference now is there are MORE good indie games than quality big budget titles, but that won't last forever. The market is being saturated with indie garbage right now. Just look at Steam's library.

See History of Atari for the end results of over saturated markets: http://www.digitalspy.ca/gaming/news/a453849/atari-retrospective-the-rise-and-fall-of-a-gaming-giant.html#~oMe5KVRNu5RDel

And see the History of Nintendo for the success of high budget and quality control in the gaming industry.

EA isn't the only publishing company is the world. If EA makes a few bad titles because of poor management, that has nothing to do with whether or not the demand for those games exists.

You are very narrow minded on the gaming industry and the success/failure of the PS4 and Xbone. Neither company did proper market research when they released these consoles. We've also been in an economic slump since 2008, and people just don't have the money to spare on expensive entertainment.

It's not just EA and Xbone that hurting, it's retail in general.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/promotions-drive-sales-for-retailers-in-june-1404998141

People are only playing F2P and Indie because it's cheap.

The demand for Big Budget Games are there: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3-2014-ea-says-titanfall-is-the-best-selling-xbox-one-game-to-date/1100-6420404/

What's missing is the players who can afford to buy an Xbox One.

"John Romero: PC is Decimating Console in Price Alone"
That's exactly right. People can't afford a console, and they will go with the free option on price alone. It's not about value for your money; it's about affordability.

The point is, you're wrong, expensive $60 AAA titles are overall losing money at the big houses (EA, etc) and they'll have to quit eventually or just go bankrupt trying to sell this stuff in all but a FEW EXCEPTIONS as I noted before. I didn't say there was a market for these, just a FEW that are really great. The rest just lose money as I showed with the financials of all the big dogs (EA, MS, Sony, Nintendo, THQ now bankrupt, Take2, ATVI/blizz). $60 AAA titles can't compete with GREAT VALUE at $40 an under from small devs without HUGE overhead. If you don't get the point of the post re-read them. They make perfect sense, I couldn't spell out the point for you any more than I did. You're apparently not reading it.

Don't care how much TF2/CS make. The point was as I said, they are NOT high priced AAA titles and that is why they are tops in the charts for players. I already said valve makes MOST of their money selling OTHER peoples games via steam.

If there was a demand for big budget titles the companies I just listed (AGAIN!) wouldn't be losing money hand over fist for the last decade. The demand is over as competition is cheaper and to a large extent BETTER, less bugs, better support, cheaper etc. AAA is dying as EA's honcho said, only 25 devs making projects for AAA big budgets now vs. 125 of last gen. Jeez did you even read the post or just realize I buried your opinion and decided to say you don't get the point? LOL.

Yes, you're making my point, more good indie and small dev games vs. AAA $60 games. Won't last forever? BS. Quality is upping on the lower end as tons of devs left the big dogs and are making the games they have been wanting to make for YEARS (google the list of games I mentioned before and all the names of the people, you don't apparently know who any of these people or games are).

Nintendo failing as the other poster noted and so did I. Read stock websites and financials (IE, balance sheets, earnings reports) then come back and tell me they're a success again...ROFL. FAILING, until they produce games for OTHER hardware they will continue to bleed.

MS/Sony same story as I noted. Making money proves you're a success, losing it proves the opposite, and sony, ms, nintendo are all losing it in their gaming divisions as are the big pubs/devs.

Narrow minded? ROFL. Let me know when MS/SONY/NIN make money on their gaming divisions again. I'm stating financial facts, you're dreaming.

If EA is losing money year after year, demand for AAA $60 is dying. Period. Small devs are making money, again you're ignoring DIGITAL SALES as the OP noted and so did I. You really don't read the posts. Retail is like the $60 AAA titles, can't compete vs. digital and small devs that sell cheap and don't have to come in a box.

Yes, people play free to play because it's cheap...That is the freaking point. Expensive can't compete with cheap especially when cheap is damn good (as in all the games I mentioned from the huge names in gaming, all under $40, like Divinity Original Sin and all the others I mentioned). Google the games, you'll understand why they will further hurt AAA $60 titles as all of them come out. Wasteland 2 in Sept etc. All of the games I mentioned from the "GAMING ALL STAR DEVS" will be BETTER and CHEAPER than EA etc.

Yes, players missing as buyers from xbox1. Again, expensive and not exactly highest quality console OR games=failure. You're making my point again, not yours. Yep, people will go with free or cheap, so AAA $60 is dying and so are the consoles with them.

You're wrong, the games I mentioned before are TOP NOTCH by the best names in gaming history. Again, google their names and the game names. IE Torchlight 1/2 were made by ex Diablo/Diablo2 guys. These are not putz people who do not know how to make GREAT games. They are the people who used to make ALL the GREAT GAMES. Jeez. Do your homework. I mentioned many of the titles these people created, and they are the ones making the games I listed NOW.

"Divinity OS, torchlights, grimrock etc. Wasteland2, Torment Tides of Numenera, Elite Dangerous, Project Eternity, Shroud of the Avatar, Planetary Annihilation, Shadowrun Returns, Grim Dawn, etc etc all coming soon. I'm betting all will be under $40 (shadowrun already was at launch $15 even with the DLC $30 total) with far more play time than AAA $60 games."

Those games are being made by the top people from the last 20yrs (see the names of the people I mentioned previously). That is why AAA will hurt even more. You will have MORE trouble than ever before selling AAA $60 vs. the above competition from PRO's who now how to make the best games and as noted used to work for EA, MS, Activision/Blizzard, THQ, Bethesda etc. They now work for THEMSELVES on games they want to make that AAA pubs/devs mentioned won't touch (original ideas, not $60 rehashes of last years games). They'd rather make call of duty rev 59 at $60 and they will fail overall as their earnings reports for all of them shows.

You can't cite ONE title (titanfall) and call AAA $60 gaming a success. The earnings reports don't lie. ONE hit doesn't make EA profitable. See their 10yr summary as I linked to before. The little guys are kicking the big guys butts, and will continue to do so with smaller teams, better quality, better support and no overhead allowing cheaper prices. IE, Divinity Original Sin=$40 and ~50hrs of gameplay with great graphics. This isn't indie crap.
http://www.gamespot.com/videos/game-of-the-month-july-2014/2300-6420561/
Divinity OS is gamespot's game of the month for July. VALUE. Not just some crap with a cheap price.

Torchlight 2 $20 vs. Diablo 3 $60. Torchlight 2 had FAR more value, by the people who made the OLD Diablo's...LOL. Torchlight 2 is what happens when you get the FAT DEV/PUB out of the way. Diablo 3 is what happens when you have the FAT DEV/PUB in the way. Get the point?

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/torchlight-ii
Check user ratings for torchlight 2. 1700 USER ratings 8.6, metacritic score of 88. I'm sure this game will sell easily with Torchlight 3 or whatever they call their next game. T2 sold twice as fast as T1 both at $20.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/diablo-iii
Diablo 3...Same 88 metacritic score (paid off mags, ignoring drm issues etc), but 9000+ ratings by users and 3.9 score...This game didn't make blizzard/activision many friends.

VALUE, PRICE, QUALITY by the same guys who made the previous Diablo 1/2, but now for 1/3 the price. Simple math. That is the point. AAA $60 will only get tougher to sell, vs. this stuff from GREAT small devs.

 

[Alec Mowat]

I asked for numbers, you are giving me opinions. You are going to have to link to sources if you want to debate in essay format.

"Expensive can't compete with cheap especially when cheap is damn good"

This is the exception to rule. Expensive can't compete because the economy sucks.

"Diablo 3...Same 88 metacritic score (paid off mags, ignoring drm issues etc), but 9000+ ratings by users and 3.9 score...This game didn't make blizzard/activision many friends."
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/call-of-duty-4-modern-warfare

Modern Warfare has a good review?

People are far more critical of Big Budget games, and for good reason. They have much lower expectations when they purchase an indie title. And for good reason.
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/diablo-3-reaper-of-souls-27-million-in-sales-shows-decline

But 2.7 million copies is a lot, regardless of whether it's less than the original or not. You are dreaming if you think EA, Sony, Activition or Microsoft will disappear in the next decade.

Again, you are mistaken "Bad Sales" with "Bad Economy".
It's not just gaming that is taking the hit, it's retail in general. You won't see business improve until the economy improves. In the meantime, people will go with the free options.

If these corporations make bad products, that still doesn't change the fact that the demand for quality, expensive products still exists. This is err on the side of the publishers, not a change in what consumers want.

I own Trine 2, and I've never played it.

 

[somebodyspecial]

I asked for numbers, you are giving me opinions. You are going to have to link to sources if you want to debate in essay format.

"Expensive can't compete with cheap especially when cheap is damn good"

This is the exception to rule. Expensive can't compete because the economy sucks.

"Diablo 3...Same 88 metacritic score (paid off mags, ignoring drm issues etc), but 9000+ ratings by users and 3.9 score...This game didn't make blizzard/activision many friends."
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/call-of-duty-4-modern-warfare

Modern Warfare has a good review?

People are far more critical of Big Budget games, and for good reason. They have much lower expectations when they purchase an indie title. And for good reason.
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/diablo-3-reaper-of-souls-27-million-in-sales-shows-decline

But 2.7 million copies is a lot, regardless of whether it's less than the original or not. You are dreaming if you think EA, Sony, Activition or Microsoft will disappear in the next decade.

Again, you are mistaken "Bad Sales" with "Bad Economy".
It's not just gaming that is taking the hit, it's retail in general. You won't see business improve until the economy improves. In the meantime, people will go with the free options.

If these corporations make bad products, that still doesn't change the fact that the demand for quality, expensive products still exists. This is err on the side of the publishers, not a change in what consumers want.

I own Trine 2, and I've never played it.

You're citing a game from 7 years ago? COD 4: Modern Warfare that you linked to was released in 2007. ROFL. Nice try.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/call-of-duty-ghosts
Try something within at least the last year...LOL. 2.5 rating from 1900+ users.

I gave links to multiple companies & financials, with 10yr summaries showing they are losing their buts. You ignored them. MS, Sony, Nintendo, EA all losing money in the gaming divisions. That isn't an opinion, it's fact.

I don't understand your point with trine 2, great game but I don't get your point. You not playing it is supposed to mean what to me? I own it too and have never played but only due to so many games in my gog collection due to all the dang sales you can't pass up. I'll get to it one day. Another example of a GREAT game at a GREAT price.

Diablo3 ROS 2.7m? Torchlight 2 sold pretty much the same though it took far longer, but they have zero marketing campaign Also many only bought that game because they were suckered by D3 not knowing about he RMAH. So many bought the FIXED D3 ROS to get rid of it. Nice plan, but it won't work for D4 if they ever have one due to all the hate it created.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2014/08/05/activision-blizzard-2nd-quarter-profit-drops-37-percent-but-beats-wall-street/
Blizzard profits drop 37% to 208mil. Just a few days ago. Note they have ~7M subs at $15/mo which is 105mil/mo and 315mil per quarter for WOW subcribers. Granted some millions are to keep it running, but take out 115mil for that and expansion packs etc for WOW and you're still talking removing 200mil from their quarter right? So how much money is Diablo 3 and it's expansion bringing in? Just about NOTHING despite sales as their profits for the quarter were only 208mil. AAA not working well for them either.

http://www.vg247.com/2013/01/07/xbox-360-and-ps3-losses-total-8-billion-ex-sony-employee-paints-grim-future/
$8billion in losses between MS/Sony on Xbox360/ps3. It will be no different this time with FAR more console competition from android, ios, now steamos machines etc and ALL of these are running cheaper games and some pretty dang good, not to mention PC also now that all the great developers are working for themselves without the bloat so they can charge $40 or less for AAA games themselves. See all the games I mentioned previously all coming in the before xmas 2015 (IE wasteland 2 next month, HUGE).

http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/7/5690124/nintendo-posts-456-million-annual-operating-loss
Nintendo $456mil annual loss a quarter ago (ended march 31). Wiiu can't hit 7mil yet, almost two years shortly and it's CHEAP compared to xbox1/ps4! Top titles like zelda not more than 2mil sold now (that's same as a small dev like runic selling 2mil on PC...LOL)

http://www.theverge.com/2014/7/30/5950887/nintendo-earnings-q1-2014
Mario Kart fails to stem losses, only 2.7mil sold. Another quarterly earnings loss of 97mil just over a week ago...LOL. They have been falling short for 2yrs of what they said they'd make with revision after revision DOWN.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2014/02/18/microsoft-should-give-xbox-one-to-nintendo/
Forbes, any many others say the same. MS should exit consoles.
"Amidst this organizational change, Xbox continues its long history of losing money – as much as $2 billion per year. And early 2014 results show that Xbox One is selling at only half the rate of Sony’s Playstation 4, with cumulative Xbox One sales at under 70% of PS4, leading Motley Fool to call Xbox One a “total failure.”"

Do I need to say more on MSFT? The entire gaming division loses money.

I already gave the link for EA's last 10yrs. But since you ignore all the links here it is agian:
http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/financial-statements?symbol=US%3aEA
If AAA $60 titles have a market, when will any of these people start making some money on them?

THQ=Bankrupt...AAA $60 didn't work for them either.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-05-14-sonys-game-division-reports-full-year-loss
Sony despite PS4, full year loss just a few months ago, and sales have slowed over 50% and continues to slow. IE 7 million ps4's sold up to end of march, and only another 1.2mil in the last 5 months. That is called TANKING SALES. First 5 months sold 7mil. 2nd 5 months sells 1.2mil? TANKING. Mind you, they are killing MS, and still losing cash.

http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/sony-estimates-112-million-first-quarter-loss-1201272618/
Squeaked out a profit, but predicts loss of 488mil for the year.
"But the Japanese giant said that it continued to forecast a net loss of JPY50 billion ($488 million) for the full year."
Note the mobile group (phones etc) expected to turn a profit of 635mil for the year...It's a bad economy for $60 AAA games and consoles, not small devs and mobile. Apple/Samsung sell phones hand over fist in a your idea of a crap economy. Apple/samsung/qcom/NV still basically setting at records, so in a crap economy people still fork over for phones, tablets, and expensive GPU's, oh an great games at $40 and under. Note NV's margins are 56%, nearing Intel levels (they set a record for margins too at 62% - crap economy for SOME people). Microsoft is doing far worse than sony and hence they hide their numbers. But if sony is sucking wind, so is MSFT only worse.

OOPS, never mind...A quick search of MSFT turns up this 19hrs ago...LOL
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/xbox-one-has-raked-400-million-loss-microsoft-8-months-1460471
xbox1 racked up 400mil loss for Microsoft so far...ROFL. A hit here and there don't matter get it? Overall they are all losing their butts.
"In simple terms, Microsoft's revenue went up by $1.7bn, but costs also shot up by $2.1bn, resulting in a loss of $400m."

How many links do you need to get the point? AAA $60 is a party that is OVER as mobile and cheaper PC gaming RULES! Every company trying to push this crap is losing money. These are NOT just my opinions, the data doesn't lie, no matter who I point to.

http://247wallst.com/technology-3/2014/06/08/is-apple-about-to-conquer-the-video-game-industry-look-out-microsoft/
Apple coming for gaming now too. They have too, K1 will cause tablet woes at the very least and so will android AEP with AndroidL which is going for gaming as google tries to narrow the gap between mobile and pc graphics. When apple enters, MS/Sony/Nintendo will get another hair cut to stay competitive. This isn't counting the damage AndroidL/AEP and 64bit socs will do all next year and forward either.

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/08/apple-granted-patent-backside-ipad-gaming-controls-more.html
Apple granted gaming patent now. Get ready for a new player in gaming. I hope they fail too, but they're going to do some damage for sure. We don't need apple ruling gaming any more than MS/Sony or the big pubs/devs.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/237187/global-video-games-revenue/
It's comic you're blaming it all on the economy yet video gaming revenue worldwide is at all time highs and growing according to gartner.
https://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2614915
I don't believe their console predictions, as devs have already run to mobile/pc massively vs. console as show by GDC 2013, & 2014 surveys. Where the devs go, the games go, and then WE GO.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2010-05-17/news/27628625_1_mobile-gaming-gartner-application
Gartner clearly has been wrong before. Mobile gaming 11.4B in 2014?...LOL. Already blown that away.
http://venturebeat.com/2014/07/23/mobile-games-revenue-will-double-by-2017-as-growth-spreads-worldwide-exclusive/
Already 17.5B and set to double by 2017 to 35B.

http://events.venturebeat.com/event/gamesbeat2014/?utm_source=venturebeat&utm_medium=boilerplate&utm_content=bottom&utm_campaign=gamesbeat2014
Considering this event is on the disruption in the video game market scheduled next month, I'm guessing they'll conclude INDIE is thriving (and not just crap games) and consoles/blockbusters are dying (as the EA guy citing only 25 devs making blockbusters vs. 125 for last gen already shows).

We're done here. You're just wasting my time and no matter how much data I'd throw at you, you repeatedly ignore it. My case just gets stronger by the day, you're just keeps getting worse by the hour...ROFL. It will continue to get worse as mobile gaming is kicking into high gear with kepler on mobile, Apple kicking it up a notch now, and PC gaming getting back to smaller devs without overhead (all the teams I noted, all the games I noted and more). AAA gaming may not be dying, but AAA $60 IS DYING. All of the financial data shows it.

Enjoy your day (or night).

 

[Alec Mowat]

"...but AAA $60 IS DYING"

Retail is hurting, in general. AAA will not die from f2p and indie.
EA - Total Assets = 5.07 Billion
Activision - Total Assets = 14.012 billion
Microsoft -Total Assets = 142.43 Billion.
Sony - Total Assets = 148 billion
Nintendo - Total Assets = 12 Billion USD

You're dreaming if you think AAA is gone. These corporations are massive. They will adapt, the market is still there, the economy is not.

Walmart is doing poorly:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/wal-marts-poor-4th-quarter-bleak-2014-outlook-bodes-ill-for-retail-sector/2014/02/20/a1a4c9de-9992-11e3-b931-0204122c514b_story.html

McDonalds lost money
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303947904579338333760745934

GM is doing horrible
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/04/30/taxpayers-gm-bailout-losses/8522681/

This isn't unique to the gaming industry, the entire economy is (still) sinking. It will be another decade (at least) for a realistic recovery.
http://www.maximumpc.com/14_most_anticipated_pc_games_e3_2014#slide-0


Like a said, a few bad consoles and a few bad games aren't going to kill billion dollar companies over night.

 

[somebodyspecial]

"...but AAA $60 IS DYING"

Retail is hurting, in general. AAA will not die from f2p and indie.
EA - Total Assets = 5.07 Billion
Activision - Total Assets = 14.012 billion
Microsoft -Total Assets = 142.43 Billion.
Sony - Total Assets = 148 billion
Nintendo - Total Assets = 12 Billion USD

You're dreaming if you think AAA is gone. These corporations are massive. They will adapt, the market is still there, the economy is not.

Walmart is doing poorly:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/wal-marts-poor-4th-quarter-bleak-2014-outlook-bodes-ill-for-retail-sector/2014/02/20/a1a4c9de-9992-11e3-b931-0204122c514b_story.html

McDonalds lost money
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303947904579338333760745934

GM is doing horrible
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/04/30/taxpayers-gm-bailout-losses/8522681/

This isn't unique to the gaming industry, the entire economy is (still) sinking. It will be another decade (at least) for a realistic recovery.
http://www.maximumpc.com/14_most_anticipated_pc_games_e3_2014#slide-0


Like a said, a few bad consoles and a few bad games aren't going to kill billion dollar companies over night.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/pc-game-industry-revenue-records,24923.html
Game industry set a record for 2013. Expected to go higher and do it again in 2014 says gartner. Like tomshardware I disagree with their pc statmements, but the money amounts show gaming has nothing do with macdonalds or walmart sales. Gaming is setting records here. What does food have to do with gaming?

Wasn't implying MS would go bankrupt (they make $22B from office and windows products, but the gaming division loses it's butt). MS would be setting a record were it not for Surface dragging them down a billion, and gaming division squandering more also (record year was 2011 @23B). Sony's handsets make money, I'm talking about their gaming division. I'm saying that AAA $60 is dead (not AAA itself). It will become AAA $40 or less or they'll keep losing money vs. smaller players. You're missing the point; it's not AAA dying, it's EXPENSIVE AAA that is dying because small devs can give the same quality/fun for less price. Divinity OS etc at $40 is AAA $40 and that will thrive, like all the others I mentioned.

Retail's GAMING problem is the competition is DIGITAL and cheaper. You're confusing the AAA titles I mentioned from SMALL AAA devs as f2p indie crap. BS. D:OS, Wasteland 2, Tides of Numenera, Shroud of Avatar, etc etc are not f2p or indie. Also I never said over night. It's a long war, it's just already over They will adjust their pricing and models or not be able to compete with games like D:OS etc at $40 or less. One more point, Nvidia, Intel, MS all had great quarters. That's a lot of retail, as I said not ALL of retail is doing bad. If it was really the economy that is the problem here (and not that $60 price tag) then gaming reveneue (and NV vid card sales, guided up BTW) wouldn't be setting RECORDS last year and predicted this year, and NV/Intel/MS wouldn't be having great years either. But they ALL ARE. RIMM was massive. Dead now IMHO as I predicted years ago on here (they still have 5B in assets, but how relevant are they?). THQ used to be a billion dollar company too. Bankrupt now Peaked at over a billion revenue in 2008, dead by 2012 end.

http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/financial-statements?symbol=US%3aEA
EA has lost 1.5B in the last 10yrs. How long can you keep that up? They need a new strategy, IE not a $60 one If I just take the last 7yrs, that loss is FAR larger at 2.315 Billion (note the trend?). How long can you keep that up? You're not getting the point.

 

[Saga Lout]

I hate to be seen to be stifling debate but I think this one has run its course. No-one else is coming in on either side of the argument so it's time to put this down to interpretation and opinion and close the thread.

Please PM me if you think I'm being unfair to one side or the other.