Jumping through holes carrying boulders, and other things

[James]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <867jkpn18h.fsf@strackenz.spod-central.org>,
Dylan O'Donnell <psmith@spod-central.org> wrote:

>There are very few test scenarios that need to be in explore mode to
>be valid.

This thread started with the observation that wishes and other things
work differently in wizmode, making some wizmode testing invalid.

I'm in the camp that things there should be a way to set debug mode to
more accurately model game behavior, and you clearly don't think it's a
problem. I realize you've probably spent more time source diving and
wizmode testing than anyone else, so I'll defer to your superior wisdom.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Roar Lauritzsen wrote:

> Some of the experiments were *actually* lethal as well, I died once. I
> was gathering boulders deep in Gehennom for a project of mine on the
> Oracle level. As a storm giant, I found that I actually had an infinite
> capacity for carrying boulders. At one point when I was low on HP, I
> stepped on a mine. The mine killed my storm giant self, and as I
> returned to human form I fell into the pit that the mine had created.
> Each boulder I was carrying fell into the pit with me, doing some HP
> damage each, until my entire 216 HP points were gone. My AoLS saved me,
> but sadly, all my boulders disappeared.

That's a truly wonderful image

> There is another interesting consequence of playing on alt.org, the
> possiblity of creating ghost levels. With my boulders, I had achieved to
> transform the Oracle level into an ocean,

How does one create pools with boulders?

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

begin quoting james <fishbowl@conservatory.com>:
>I'm in the camp that things there should be a way to set debug mode to
>more accurately model game behavior, and you clearly don't think it's a
>problem.

I must say, I agree with you. Wizmode should, where possible, make it
possible to test all aspects of the game, and that includes wishing; and
having only ^W wishes be empowered to wish for anything seems the obvious
solution.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Aponoia, March.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

james wrote:
> In article <d018f8$j54$1@troll.powertech.no>,
> Roar Lauritzsen <roarl@pvv.RemoveThis.org> wrote:
>>Wizard mode is not exciting and not entertaining -- success is
>>guaranteed. I am still *playing* NetHack, I'm just deliberately more
>>reckless and adventurous than usual. Having ascended a few times, that
>>is really not the goal (this time).
>
> I thought the point of the discussion was the relevance of debug mode
> testing of game behavior in specific situations.

No, it wasn't. Somebody asked why I was conducting potentially lethal
experiments in a normal game. I think the simple answer is that I was
playing on alt.org, and wizard or explore mode was out of the question.

Some of the experiments were *actually* lethal as well, I died once. I
was gathering boulders deep in Gehennom for a project of mine on the
Oracle level. As a storm giant, I found that I actually had an infinite
capacity for carrying boulders. At one point when I was low on HP, I
stepped on a mine. The mine killed my storm giant self, and as I
returned to human form I fell into the pit that the mine had created.
Each boulder I was carrying fell into the pit with me, doing some HP
damage each, until my entire 216 HP points were gone. My AoLS saved me,
but sadly, all my boulders disappeared.

There is another interesting consequence of playing on alt.org, the
possiblity of creating ghost levels. With my boulders, I had achieved to
transform the Oracle level into an ocean, and I wondered what to do with
it when I realized that the absolute maximum fun that I can get out of
it is somebody elses. The chances of generating bones are slim, only 50%
at DLVL 5 I think, but...

Consider entering the Oracle level and seeing the following: You are
standing on the upstairs, located in the middle of an ocean (actually it
is just a vast area of neigbouring pools) with no chance of jumping to
dry land. The Oracle sits on his own island in the vicinity. The
downstears is located in a dry area to the right, completely filled with
invisible, fast, black puddings. To the left is an area of dry land
filled with nasty monsters, and in the other end of the central ocean is
a square area of ice, with an area of ice pits inside it, and in the
middle, a pool containing the sunken statue of a silver dragon... The
"ghost level" loading code should perhaps detect extensive dungeon
alterations and give a message to the apprehensive expolorer like
"Something is not right here."

I think I was inspired by a previous poster talking about valuable
treasure chests located in extremely inaccessible locations. I was also
inspired by a ghost level I found on alt.org recently, where the statue
of a dragon carrying like 5 artifact weapons (FB and FB, for starters)
was looming over an altar with a very alive cockatrice.

Even at only 50% chance of succes, the sheer glee made it worth it.
Well, well, so much work and this long post as well, probably for
nothing. I think I will do this again sometime, perhaps at a deeper
level for increased bones chance (and I will also remember to engrave
lots of messages, like "I did this because ..." and "If you survive,
email me at ...")

-Roar

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
> begin quoting james <fishbowl@conservatory.com>:
> >I'm in the camp that things there should be a way to set debug mode to
> >more accurately model game behavior, and you clearly don't think it's a
> >problem.
>
> I must say, I agree with you. Wizmode should, where possible, make it
> possible to test all aspects of the game, and that includes wishing; and
> having only ^W wishes be empowered to wish for anything seems the obvious
> solution.

Just to be clear, I'd have no objection to this being done; it'd be
slightly fiddly, though, since readobjnam() doesn't currently know the
source of a wish (other than whether it's being read from the wizkit
or not), and I don't see any pressing need.

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "You boil it in sawdust: you salt it in glue: / You condense it with :
: locusts and tape: / Still keeping one principal object in view -- / :
: To preserve its symmetrical shape." [ Lewis Carroll, "THotS" ] :

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Benjamin Lewis wrote:
> How does one create pools with boulders?

Prerequisites: pick-axe and water walking boots. Lots of boulders on the
level helps, so let the tunneling monsters live. Digging on a fountain
creates pools. The Oracle level has four close fountains so chances are
high of creating a square with 3 neighbouring pools. Swamp rooms are
also good. Digging on a square with 3-5 neighbouring pools has a 50%
chance of creating a new pool by water flowing in from the nearby pools
(much higher chance with moats and lava but those levels are already
special so modifying is less fun). 6-8 neighbouring pools has a 66%
chance. If you do not create a pool, you create a pit instead. If you
dig from the bottom of a pit you have an additional 50 or 66% chance of
creating the pool, otherwise you fall through a hole. If you step
repeatedly on a hole and eventually escape falling through, you can dig
again from the top of the hole and *still* have a chance of creating a
pool (sadly, the water will not get drained by the hole and end up on
the next level). However, walking up and down trying to escape holes is
more time consuming than polymorphing into a giant and picking up some
boulders from somewhere else and level-teleporting back to fill the
holes for another go. With this technique you need boulders for about
30% of the area you wish to fill with water.

The water created is not as permanent as a moat. Packs of winter wolf
cubs can be a pain because when they create ice and you try to turn the
ice back into water with fire, the water evaporates. Likewise red and
white dragons.

I wonder if there is some special tactic that can be employed once you
have a lot of water? Perhaps pudding farming can be done without the
boudlers blocking the view. Sadly, it takes too much time to set things
up so by the time you are finished you just want to quit (or, silently
scheming, seeking some savage, spectacular suicide).